Reaction of the All Blacks

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Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 10:52 am

First topic message reminder :

The age old question of how a team reacts to defeat is looming for nz this week. For great teams throughout all of sport defeats do come but normally so does an answer of sorts to questions about commitment, performance etc etc.

We saw how the agressive physicality was upped by nz following defeat in Chicago; we saw the lions and Vunipola up it and cross the line at times last week though ironically after sbw had seen red.

Will nz use this positively and use the hopefully better weather to cut loose or front up into a battle of the forwards first....and then hand us our backsides?!

I still feel there are a few unanswered questions on their loss of leadership in the team and squad loosing so many great players over a few months to retirement and now injury and suspension. A lot hangs on read for me and how he leads the team over the 80 min. This is going to come more down to approach and mentality than skill for once.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11885901

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 5:29 pm

Fair enough, to be fair intent in both cases is fairly hard to determine as there are mitigants in both scenarios. In the SBW case it looks a little more clear that SBW did aim his shoulder at Watson's face.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by The Great Aukster on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 6:13 pm

What will be interesting is whether Poite has the personal strength to repeat Garces' red card should the opportunity arise.

SBW did nothing that the All Blacks haven't been doing for years - remember Ali Williams leading with the shoulder and Rodney So'oialo before him. Ireland certainly got 'special' treatment in Dublin with the sheer volume of hits - Cane and Dagg hitting Henshaw and Stander on the head with their shoulders, Murray and Sexton being repeatedly hit late, Fekitoa on Zebo...
Can this NZ side actually lay off the macho behaviour that is such an integral part of their game now the scrutiny is fully on them - take away the throat slitting and do they lose their edge?
They will be smarting but probably not as much as after Chicago because they couldn't blame the ref for that loss - this time the battle is between their discipline and how Poite interprets it.

Do New Zealand dare give Poite the opportunity to test his own mettle?

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by kingelderfield on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 6:22 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Yeah the thread was more about the psychology of loss and the loss of quite a bit of experience from.nz vs the fact that they're quite a good rugby side..less about guns crazy theories.

Crazy theories to one side...

Actually I think you're quite near the nub of it, however what I find equally interesting is the Lions side of the equation. What sort of mentality is necessary to rise above and counter the reaction to the loss that will power the AB's response?

The problem is to answer that you have to look for recent evidence and really there's not much of that around. My reading of the tour so far is that of reaction over momentum and looking beyond that, back to the 6 nations, no side was able to win the games that really mattered - Dublin for example. These guys are going to have to be History makers to brake the chain of reactive response that appears to be in motion.

As to the levels of experience and injury/suspensions effecting the AB's ability to realise their talent, I believe the Kiwi brains trust is more than able to 'juggle the puzzle' of selection and strategy. In fact it is the AB's well of ability that is the real concern.

So what can the Lions do? Will Gatland make O'Driscoll type selections and drop Vunipola or Jones? Who are the proven winners in the squad or simply the players with the most energy able to take the field?
I don't know enough about the Irish prop but I would certainly consider dropping Mako with Marler to start and Jones for Kruis or Lawes.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Taylorman on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 7:52 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Fair enough, to be fair intent in both cases is fairly hard to determine as there are mitigants in both scenarios. In the SBW case it looks a little more clear that SBW did aim his shoulder at Watson's face.

I don't see SBWs is up there with Mako's In terms of pure intent.

SBWs looked awkward, miscalculated and in the end poorly constructed, and lacked the type of force he is capable of, the result requiring the card more than the intent.

where Mako's, knowling full well where the ball was, where Barrett was, made a kamikaze dive straight at Barrett with no holds barred. It's just the fact that his useless timing and execution of the act meant he missed in the most part. And you can't card intent. But two of the same in the one minute suggests he was on a mission.

I'm just saying what I saw, and it's irrelevant whether I'm right or wrong my point being the ABs will add it to their little list of chores for the weekend.

Re the Lions physicality this is exactly what I called for from the Lions pre test. Their first test effort was so lame, no confrontations, no scuffles, they tried to outskill the ABs instead. I said if the are no fights or scuffles second test, no way the Lions would have won, they needed to front physically and be in the AB faces, so the Mako, SOB stuff was more like it. That very level of physicality undoubtedly assisted with their win. And good on them.

All I'm saying is the ABs will have taken note and Id expect more of the same from them, a Dublin approach all over again. It's important they keep their discipline but the aggression levels will go up a couple of levels as a response.

The stark contrast in the styles of play, combined with the expected levels of aggression and intensity suggests this is going to be another stop start affair, full of incidents, just to get over the line and get the series over and done with.

It's possible the ABs may stay clear of all that and simply focus on high levels of pace and accuracy and scoring of tries, but it's more likely they'll be dragged into a battle of attrition, so may just be resigned to that from the start.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 9:18 pm

Yeah the ABs are playing really boring rugby alright.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Taylorman on Tue 04 Jul 2017, 9:26 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Yeah the ABs are playing really boring rugby alright.

As are both sides with the record breaking low scoring of tries this tour. Tends to happen when tour surround yourselves with negativity.
Dont worry, weve the rugby championship to look forward to, bit more positivity there. thumbsup

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by milkyboy on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 12:53 am

I just presumed the all blacks have been showing they can win anyway they choose by out warrenballing gatland. Gatland has thrown a curve ball by ditching a crash centre, playing two fly halves and trying to fling it out wide. Sadly, The ABs are better at warrenball than the lions are at super rugby.

Not sure the ab's will find it easy to suddenly go back to try mode... they're playing as they are because the rush defence has forced their hand a bit. Helped by our backs being yards offside most of the time.... It's payback for Richie's invisible shirt I tell ya!

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 8:50 am

Taylorman wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Yeah the ABs are playing really boring rugby alright.

As are both sides with the record breaking low scoring of tries this tour. Tends to happen when tour surround yourselves with negativity.
Dont worry, weve the rugby championship to look forward to, bit more positivity there. thumbsup

Oh yeah real positive, New Zealand hammering everyone by on average around 25-30 points. Great competition. You must be really looking forward to it.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 9:08 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Yeah the ABs are playing really boring rugby alright.

As are both sides with the record breaking low scoring of tries this tour. Tends to happen when tour surround yourselves with negativity.
Dont worry, weve the rugby championship to look forward to, bit more positivity there. thumbsup

Oh yeah real positive, New Zealand hammering everyone by on average around 25-30 points. Great competition. You must be really looking forward to it.


Ireland provided a lot more enterntrainment than 25-30 in their last game in NZ, great competition. Bet Taylor cant wait for the next one.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 10:22 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Fair enough, to be fair intent in both cases is fairly hard to determine as there are mitigants in both scenarios. In the SBW case it looks a little more clear that SBW did aim his shoulder at Watson's face.

I completely agree with you there. SBW's old league instincts kicked in & he hit with the old-fashioned (even RL's banned them now) shoulder. Thoroughly deserves his 4 weeks (3 games) out
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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by eirebilly on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 10:49 am

Taylorman wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Fair enough, to be fair intent in both cases is fairly hard to determine as there are mitigants in both scenarios. In the SBW case it looks a little more clear that SBW did aim his shoulder at Watson's face.

I don't see SBWs is up there with Mako's In terms of pure intent.

SBWs looked awkward, miscalculated and in the end poorly constructed, and lacked the type of force he is capable of, the result requiring the card more than the intent.

where Mako's, knowling full well where the ball was, where Barrett was, made a kamikaze dive straight at Barrett with no holds barred. It's just the fact that his useless timing and execution of the act meant he missed in the most part. And you can't card intent. But two of the same in the one minute suggests he was on a mission.

I'm just saying what I saw, and it's irrelevant whether I'm right or wrong my point being the ABs will add it to their little list of chores for the weekend.


Care to explain the SOB hit then? Apparently to you that was intentional... Somehow the SBW hit that got a deserved red card and 4 week ban is seen as a miscalculation by you but SOB, who's citing was dismissed deeming it not to be card worthy or ban worthy was intentional...

Shocked

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 11:07 am

Naholo wasn't knocked out, he was just taking a nap because the ABs play such boring rugby.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Cyril on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 12:09 pm

Guns, you really are the Irish Gwlad.

I mean that with the greatest respect Smile

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:02 pm

That's good to know Cyril. Are you planning on ever having an opinion on anything rugby related?

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Cyril on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:07 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:That's good to know Cyril. Are you planning on ever having an opinion on anything rugby related?
See my comments on Rory 'Scattergun' Best in another thread.

I'm sure that antagonising NZ fans is a valid use of your time Wink

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:11 pm

You are obsessed with Best Cyril. Do you have a secret crush on him?

Kiwi fans are well able to antagonise themselves without my help. I think a few other posters got a telling off for winding them up but not me. angel

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:24 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:I bet their reaction wont be to spend two days arguing over whether Best is good at lineout throws or not.

Im sure they are just happy he isnt playing as he dominated the breakdown and lineout in two test against them last year.

Im sure the ABs also arent frolicking in Queenstown 1,611 KM away from Eden park.


Whistle

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:25 pm

You are becoming a bit wumtastic of late Guns, hard to take anything you say seriously. For a start you think Best is a capable thrower.....bizarre.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Cyril on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:31 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:You are obsessed with Best Cyril. Do you have a secret crush on him?

Kiwi fans are well able to antagonise themselves without my help. I think a few other posters got a telling off for winding them up but not me. angel
I just worry about him, that's all. He looks so sad sometimes. Like Eeyore.

I'm sure the mods are just checking out your posts and are considering a citing. V3 soon? Smile

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by eirebilly on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:32 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:You are becoming a bit wumtastic of late Guns, hard to take anything you say seriously. For a start you think Best is a capable thrower.....bizarre.

The same could be said about you for claiming Best is not a capable thrower...
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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Cyril on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:36 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:You are becoming a bit wumtastic of late Guns, hard to take anything you say seriously. For a start you think Best is a capable thrower.....bizarre.

The same could be said about you for claiming Best is not a capable thrower...
Best is a culpable thrower.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by eirebilly on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:38 pm

Cyril wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:You are becoming a bit wumtastic of late Guns, hard to take anything you say seriously. For a start you think Best is a capable thrower.....bizarre.

The same could be said about you for claiming Best is not a capable thrower...
Best is a culpable thrower.

Yeah, an international representative with over 100 caps is poor in one of the main aspects of his game...

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Cyril on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:39 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Cyril wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:You are becoming a bit wumtastic of late Guns, hard to take anything you say seriously. For a start you think Best is a capable thrower.....bizarre.

The same could be said about you for claiming Best is not a capable thrower...
Best is a culpable thrower.

Yeah, an international representative with over 100 caps is poor in one of the main aspects of his game...

I know. Mad, isn't it?

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:41 pm

Pooly just likes rock solid basics in the front row above anything. Vunipola, youngs best. Always been consistent.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by eirebilly on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:42 pm

Cyril wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Cyril wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:You are becoming a bit wumtastic of late Guns, hard to take anything you say seriously. For a start you think Best is a capable thrower.....bizarre.

The same could be said about you for claiming Best is not a capable thrower...
Best is a culpable thrower.

Yeah, an international representative with over 100 caps is poor in one of the main aspects of his game...

I know. Mad, isn't it?

Cyril, you really are as mad as a bottle of chips Very Happy

Its a bit hot here so it took me a while to understand that you were winding me up.

Fair dues to ye thumbsup
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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 1:58 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:You are becoming a bit wumtastic of late Guns, hard to take anything you say seriously. For a start you think Best is a capable thrower.....bizarre.

The same could be said about you for claiming Best is not a capable thrower...

It's certainly a weakness of his game which isn't great for a hooker. Not capable is probably a little tough, but even the most ardent Ireland/Ulster fan must admit he isn't a great thrower.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:00 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:You are becoming a bit wumtastic of late Guns, hard to take anything you say seriously. For a start you think Best is a capable thrower.....bizarre.

The same could be said about you for claiming Best is not a capable thrower...

It's certainly a weakness of his game which isn't great for a hooker. Not capable is probably a little tough, but even the most ardent Ireland/Ulster fan must admit he isn't a great thrower.

Interesting that the Ireland lineout has been better than NZs in the last three matches head to head.

Pooly do you actually know how many lineouts Best has missed on this tour vs George for example or are you making it up as you go along?

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:01 pm

You'd have to accept that best isn't as good a s george though guns?

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:16 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You'd have to accept that best isn't as good a s george though guns?

Yes for the Lions possibly Georges throw is marginally better but the difference is negligible and grossly exaggerated. Both have missed throws on this tour. George threw a crooked one on Saturday and handed possession back to the ABs and the ABs won another against the head.

2nd Test
NZ 9 won, 1 lost (90.0%) Lineouts on own throw Lions 8 won, 2 lost (80.0%)
1st Test
NZ 8 won, 5 lost (61.5%) Lineouts on own throw Lions 13 won, 1 lost (92.9%)

Bests last two games for the Lions lineout stats are both 100% accuracy:
Hurricanes 13/14 (92%) lions 5/5 (100%
Highlanders 10/11 (90%) Lions 7/7 (100%)

Bests throwing accuracy is clearly grossly exaggerated. He has also proved that against the ABs he can throw well enough for the Ireland lineout stats to be better than the ABs lineout stats in the last three games.

Best offers a lot more than George. Its a head scratcher.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Taylorman on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:21 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Fair enough, to be fair intent in both cases is fairly hard to determine as there are mitigants in both scenarios. In the SBW case it looks a little more clear that SBW did aim his shoulder at Watson's face.

I don't see SBWs is up there with Mako's In terms of pure intent.

SBWs looked awkward, miscalculated and in the end poorly constructed, and lacked the type of force he is capable of, the result requiring the card more than the intent.

where Mako's, knowling full well where the ball was, where Barrett was, made a kamikaze dive straight at Barrett with no holds barred. It's just the fact that his useless timing and execution of the act meant he missed in the most part. And you can't card intent. But two of the same in the one minute suggests he was on a mission.

I'm just saying what I saw, and it's irrelevant whether I'm right or wrong my point being the ABs will add it to their little list of chores for the weekend.


Care to explain the SOB hit then? Apparently to you that was intentional... Somehow the SBW hit that got a deserved red card and 4 week ban is seen as a miscalculation by you but SOB, who's citing was dismissed deeming it not to be card worthy or ban worthy was intentional...

Shocked


I have explained it. SBW didn't go in with as much intent as Mako and as soon as he realised he'd hit him he starts reaching for him to break his fall...for me reckless, poor skills and regret.

Look at Mako. A full on launch into Barrett and nonway you can say he was going to be 'protective' after the hit. He went in fully intent on maiming Barrett...twice. That was a man on a mission.

SOB simply got a clean hit in, and didn't look clumsy in the way SBW did. Clinical, efficient.

I don't care what the result of the citing was, I know what I saw. You can disagree with that line of thinking, that's fine too.

And it doesn't matter what either of us think, but I know what the ABs will be thinking and it will be interesting watching Mako's progress during the game this weekend.

All up it's no biggie, all part of the game.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Scottrf on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:23 pm

Maiming Barrett through a chargedown? FFS.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Taylorman on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:26 pm

Scottrf wrote:Maiming Barrett through a chargedown? FFS.

Hard to charge down a player lying on the ground without the ball I would have thought.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:32 pm

Tbf I hope they go looking to get vunipola. Would be nice to get another game against 14 men!

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Scottrf on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:33 pm

Taylorman wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Maiming Barrett through a chargedown? FFS.

Hard to charge down a player lying on the ground without the ball I would have thought.
You said twice.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:35 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You'd have to accept that best isn't as good a s george though guns?

Yes for the Lions possibly Georges throw is marginally better but the difference is negligible and grossly exaggerated. Both have missed throws on this tour. George threw a crooked one on Saturday and handed possession back to the ABs and the ABs won another against the head.

2nd Test
NZ 9 won, 1 lost (90.0%) Lineouts on own throw Lions 8 won, 2 lost (80.0%)
1st Test
NZ 8 won, 5 lost (61.5%) Lineouts on own throw Lions 13 won, 1 lost (92.9%)

Bests last two games for the Lions lineout stats are both 100% accuracy:
Hurricanes 13/14 (92%) lions 5/5 (100%
Highlanders 10/11 (90%) Lions 7/7 (100%)

Bests throwing accuracy is clearly grossly exaggerated. He has also proved that against the ABs he can throw well enough for the Ireland lineout stats to be better than the ABs lineout stats in the last three games.

Best offers a lot more than George. Its a head scratcher.

And again........

Best is playing against good opposition with a decent set-piece, George is playing against the best lineout defence in world rugby. Comparing the stats of Best and George on this tour means absolutely nothing.

You don't need stats to see Best struggles just watch him. His darts are not good, he makes players really work for the ball thus often slowing ball down off the top. He's a quality rugby player but he's not a good lineout thrower.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:37 pm

Well I truly can't see best being head and shoulders above george so there we go and good to see that george starts for the lions and we gt to play him for england.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 2:41 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You'd have to accept that best isn't as good a s george though guns?

Yes for the Lions possibly Georges throw is marginally better but the difference is negligible and grossly exaggerated. Both have missed throws on this tour. George threw a crooked one on Saturday and handed possession back to the ABs and the ABs won another against the head.

2nd Test
NZ 9 won, 1 lost (90.0%) Lineouts on own throw Lions 8 won, 2 lost (80.0%)
1st Test
NZ 8 won, 5 lost (61.5%) Lineouts on own throw Lions 13 won, 1 lost (92.9%)

Bests last two games for the Lions lineout stats are both 100% accuracy:
Hurricanes 13/14 (92%) lions 5/5 (100%
Highlanders 10/11 (90%) Lions 7/7 (100%)

Bests throwing accuracy is clearly grossly exaggerated. He has also proved that against the ABs he can throw well enough for the Ireland lineout stats to be better than the ABs lineout stats in the last three games.

Best offers a lot more than George. Its a head scratcher.

And again........

Best is playing against good opposition with a decent set-piece, George is playing against the best lineout defence in world rugby. Comparing the stats of Best and George on this tour means absolutely nothing.

You don't need stats to see Best struggles just watch him. His darts are not good, he makes players really work for the ball thus often slowing ball down off the top. He's a quality rugby player but he's not a good lineout thrower.

and again 2 of the last three times Best has played the ABs Ireland have dominated the lineout. You are exposing yourself as a WUM at this point.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 3:30 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:You'd have to accept that best isn't as good a s george though guns?

Yes for the Lions possibly Georges throw is marginally better but the difference is negligible and grossly exaggerated. Both have missed throws on this tour. George threw a crooked one on Saturday and handed possession back to the ABs and the ABs won another against the head.

2nd Test
NZ 9 won, 1 lost (90.0%) Lineouts on own throw Lions 8 won, 2 lost (80.0%)
1st Test
NZ 8 won, 5 lost (61.5%) Lineouts on own throw Lions 13 won, 1 lost (92.9%)

Bests last two games for the Lions lineout stats are both 100% accuracy:
Hurricanes 13/14 (92%) lions 5/5 (100%
Highlanders 10/11 (90%) Lions 7/7 (100%)

Bests throwing accuracy is clearly grossly exaggerated. He has also proved that against the ABs he can throw well enough for the Ireland lineout stats to be better than the ABs lineout stats in the last three games.

Best offers a lot more than George. Its a head scratcher.

And again........

Best is playing against good opposition with a decent set-piece, George is playing against the best lineout defence in world rugby. Comparing the stats of Best and George on this tour means absolutely nothing.

You don't need stats to see Best struggles just watch him. His darts are not good, he makes players really work for the ball thus often slowing ball down off the top. He's a quality rugby player but he's not a good lineout thrower.

and again 2 of the last three times Best has played the ABs Ireland have dominated the lineout. You are exposing yourself as a WUM at this point.


Do you have stats to back up that claim Guns? Whistle

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 3:32 pm

Yes of course they did......

And it's me that's been wumming the NZ fans for the last month too Rolling Eyes

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 3:38 pm

Gooseberry wrote:


Do you have stats to back up that claim Guns? Whistle

Yes already posted them earlier:

Best also has pretty much dominated the breakdown and lineout in his last three tests v NZ and scored 1 try.

Lineout stats:
Chicago 2016: Ireland 10 won, 2 lost (83.3%) NZ 12 won, 3 lost (80.0%)
Dublin 2016: 18 won, 2 lost (90.0%) NZ 7 won, 0 lost (100.0%)
Ireland 2013: 13 won, 1 lost (92.9%) NZ 5 won, 1 lost (83.3%)

Turnovers conceded:
Ireland 3013: Ire 15 Turnovers conceded 19 NZ
Ireland 2016: Ire 15 Turnovers conceded 19 NZ
Chicago 2016: Ire 14 Turnovers conceded 17 NZ

In those three tests Best hasn't conceded a single penalty and has only missed 2 tackles. He was outstanding.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 3:46 pm

In those three tests Best hasn't conceded a single penalty and has only missed 2 tackles. He was outstanding.

He wasn't outstanding in the last match against the AB's. He only made 4 tackles and missed 2 of those!

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 3:56 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:


Do you have stats to back up that claim Guns? Whistle

Yes already posted them earlier:

Best also has pretty much dominated the breakdown and lineout in his last three tests v NZ and scored 1 try.

Lineout stats:
Chicago 2016: Ireland 10 won, 2 lost (83.3%) NZ 12 won, 3 lost (80.0%)
Dublin 2016: 18 won, 2 lost (90.0%)         NZ 7 won, 0 lost (100.0%)
Ireland 2013: 13 won, 1 lost (92.9%)                NZ 5 won, 1 lost (83.3%)

Turnovers conceded:
Ireland 3013: Ire 15 Turnovers conceded 19 NZ
Ireland 2016: Ire 15 Turnovers conceded 19 NZ
Chicago 2016: Ire 14 Turnovers conceded 17 NZ

In those three tests Best hasn't conceded a single penalty and has only missed 2 tackles. He was outstanding.

I'm impressed that we pinched 2 Ireland lineouts in Chicago given our paucity of lock resources on the day
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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Scottrf on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 3:57 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
I'm impressed that we pinched 2 Ireland lineouts in Chicago given our paucity of lock resources on the day
Probably just Best throwing it to you to be fair.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by LondonTiger on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 4:03 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
I'm impressed that we pinched 2 Ireland lineouts in Chicago given our paucity of lock resources on the day

Pfft Jerome Kaino is the lock you have been missing all your lives Run

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 4:05 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:
In those three tests Best hasn't conceded a single penalty and has only missed 2 tackles. He was outstanding.

He wasn't outstanding in the last match against the AB's. He only made 4 tackles and missed 2 of those!

He didnt need to make a lot of tackles as Ireland had the majority of the possession due to his work at the breakdown. Two missed tackles in 3 tests is good. George has already missed 3 and given away 1 penalty.


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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by MichaelT on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 4:08 pm

Why are the Ireland v New Zealand stats only going back 3 games? What happened 4 games ago?

Oh, I see...

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Scottrf on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 4:09 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
In those three tests Best hasn't conceded a single penalty and has only missed 2 tackles. He was outstanding.

He wasn't outstanding in the last match against the AB's. He only made 4 tackles and missed 2 of those!

He didnt need to make a lot of tackles as Ireland had the majority of the possession due to his work at the breakdown. Two missed tackles in 3 tests is good. George has already missed 3 and given away 1 penalty.

Really want to compare missed tackle stats? In two tests (vs NZ), George has made 27 and missed 3. In two games vs understrength club teams Best has made 27 and missed 5.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 4:14 pm

MichaelT wrote:Why are the Ireland v New Zealand stats only going back 3 games? What happened 4 games ago?

Oh, I see...

Ireland dominated the lineout in that game too despite getting destroyed. Different coach back then too.

NZ 13 won, 1 lost (92.9%) Lineouts on own throw Ireland 14 won, 1 lost (93%)

Best's poor throwing is largely exaggerated.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 4:14 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
In those three tests Best hasn't conceded a single penalty and has only missed 2 tackles. He was outstanding.

He wasn't outstanding in the last match against the AB's. He only made 4 tackles and missed 2 of those!

He didnt need to make a lot of tackles as Ireland had the majority of the possession due to his work at the breakdown. Two missed tackles in 3 tests is good. George has already missed 3 and given away 1 penalty.


But 2 missed tackles from 4 in 1 game isn't so good...no? We seem to have a different opinion on what is an "outstanding performance" I think.

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Re: Reaction of the All Blacks

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 05 Jul 2017, 4:15 pm

Scottrf wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:
In those three tests Best hasn't conceded a single penalty and has only missed 2 tackles. He was outstanding.

He wasn't outstanding in the last match against the AB's. He only made 4 tackles and missed 2 of those!

He didnt need to make a lot of tackles as Ireland had the majority of the possession due to his work at the breakdown. Two missed tackles in 3 tests is good. George has already missed 3 and given away 1 penalty.

Really want to compare missed tackle stats? In two tests (vs NZ), George has made 27 and missed 3. In two games vs understrength club teams Best has made 27 and missed 5.

Not a big difference really much like the lineout.

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