Wimbledon - Day 7 (Monday)

by sirfredperry Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

It's that day when everyone left in the singles competitions plays. I expect the Big Four in the men's to all win. As for the women, it's stick-a-pin-in time.
How about Coco as a possible women's champion? There's some intriguing clashes in the ladies' draw today. Wonder if anyone could safely predict the outcome in all eight matches? Gonna try, though - and given the unpredictability of the women's tour at the moment, this could be wildly out.
Konta to beat Garcia
Mug to bt Kerber
Aza to bt Halep (could be a noisy match)
Rad to bt Kuznetsova
Coco to bt Caroline W
Svitolina to bt Ostapenko
Rybarikova to bt Martic (really could go either way)
Venus to bt Konjuh

Could end up getting only one of these right - the Venus match.

by Guest Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:15 am

Muller vs Nadal - both are "winners". Amazing final set.

by Henman Bill Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:15 am

Too late for Djokovic to start on court 1 now - it's going to be on centre, or tomorrow.

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:18 am

holds from 15-30 yet again

by barrystar Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:19 am

temporary21 wrote:STILL nothing about Djokovic

I guess that Centre Court emptied some time ago, and logistics mean that you can't just move upto 15,000 people into a stadium without allocated seats &c &c - it just isn't considered safe.

If they can put Djoko on any Court I reckon they'd be better off putting him on No. 2 Court, far more manageable in terms of spectators, and less worry about damaging the surface for later.

.

by Guest Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:19 am

Nadal is saving himself with the extra top spun second ball on key points - that have extra high bounce.

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:20 am

Then play with noone
Fairness of competition is far more important

With the grass and now this, theyve gievn the organisation of wimby to a bunch of monkeys

by Guest Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:21 am

The only realistic thing to do now is to put Djokovic & Mannarino first on centre court tomorrow 13:00 hour start.

by Henman Bill Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:23 am

what do we think is the likely time for bad light to be called ? About 9pm?

odds are this Rafa match gets finished, but it's questionable.

by Henman Bill Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:24 am

Never thought we'd get as far as 13-13.

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:25 am

its usually 9, maybe a shade after

by Henman Bill Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:28 am

If they are not going to put Novak and Mannarino on centre, they ought to tell them to go home at this point. I think it is a tricky situation but you could handle it by doing something like:

--Centre court ticket holders only for set 1
--Pause for 20 minutes after set 1, let in queue of ticket holders from court 1, take any seat
--Pause for 20 minutes after set 2, let in anyone inside the grounds, take any seat.

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:31 am

Surely this time

by barrystar Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:33 am

Now......

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:34 am

there it is...
amazing match, think rafa ran out of gas in the end

Put your money on Cilic I reckon

by barrystar Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:34 am

What a stupendous win - and it goes to show that the surfaces are still very different.

by Guest Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:34 am

At 34 years Mueller's best win of his career.

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:35 am

and Rafa waits for him... eternal class

A standing ovation for them

by Guest Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:36 am

Rafael Nadal - a classy guy - every time. Doesn't run off the court in a skulk, waits for Mueller.

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:38 am

So Cilics run looks like a knackered Muller, a crocked Murray and then Fed/Djoko
He will be eating tonight

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:40 am

so they are playing Djoko tomorrow

Useless c****, are the only words to describe them quite frankly. They had centre ready to play at 7pm

by Guest Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:43 am

So Mueller's win was based on winning the first two sets - how did that happen - did anyone see the first two sets?

by barrystar Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:44 am

Reminds me of 2007 when the scheduling dealt young Djoko a very rough hand too.

by sirfredperry Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:50 am

Tremendous win by Muller who stayed icy cool. Rafa was so far behind the baseline at times he could hardly get in to the TV picture.
I really thought Rafa would win the whole thing this year and even right to the end I thought he could turn this around. But full marks to Muller who played an excellent grass-court match.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:51 am

I think Kerber will be smirking to herself. Today she accused organisers of sexism for only having two women's matches on the show courts. Perhaps if they had at least one more instead of one of the men's matches this situation wouldnt have ocurred.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:58 am

Full credit to both players for a classic match. Gilles Muller deserves great credit for not bucklingvunder pressure. He kept an icy cool appearance in times of stress and held his nerve to seal the biggest win of his career. Ehat's even more impressive is he did it over such a long match. Rafa will be gutted but he got so close to the won but just suffered from a few things. Serving second in last set didn't help and neither did losing all his challenges. He had big moments with superb shots but on the day came out second best to Muller.

by barrystar Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:02 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:I think Kerber will be smirking to herself. Today she accused organisers of sexism for only having two women's matches on the show courts. Perhaps if they had at least one more instead of one of the men's matches this situation wouldnt have ocurred.

Kerber ought to look at ticket prices for CC debenture seats this week:

Ladies QF - £895
Men's QF £3,450
Ladies SF £1,195
Men's SF £4,950
Ladies F £1,275
Men's F £5,750

Sport is entertainment - nobody is owed an audience if they don't want to come, and when there's a choice between men and women professionals right now, there is absolutely no comparison. Wimbledon make sure that the big crowds get the players they want to see. Kerber ought to think about changing that rather than whining about how unfair it all is.

by sirfredperry Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:11 am

Rafa's exit, when many thought he was a nailed-on champion, means - according to my rough stats - that should Murray win his quarter final on Wednesday he will stay at number one.
The Nadal defeat also means that the year-end number one is more up for grabs now, with Fed in contention of course.

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:21 am

Djokos first up
One of those monkeys still has half a brain left

One plus for him is his QF opponenent if he makes it would be Berdy, who isnt very good against Novak, to put it lightly

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:58 am

sirfredperry wrote:Rafa's exit, when many thought he was a nailed-on champion, means - according to my rough stats - that should Murray win his quarter final on Wednesday he will stay at number one.
The Nadal defeat also means that the year-end number one is more up for grabs now, with Fed in contention of course.

The only scenario that unseats Murray from No 1 now is if Murray loses on Wednesday and Novak wins Wimbledon. Anything else and Murray will stay No 1 and climb above Ilie Nastase for weeks spent at No 1.

by CAS Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:21 am

bit concerned with Rafas reply to the question "will you be here next year?' saying he will see and would not commit, perhaps the grass is still bothering his knees and he has had enough?

Cilic has an amazing shot at the title, I think he could take Murray

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:45 am

i think cilic is second fav. If lasy year was anything to go by he might even be the sneaky fvourite

by temporary21 Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:46 am

I didnt actually see Roger play, I missed it watching Rafa. Was Dimi really bad or Federer upping his game?

by CAS Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:56 am

temporary21 wrote:I didnt actually see Roger play, I missed it watching Rafa. Was Dimi really bad or Federer upping his game?

Federer was solid but Grigor was poor, I think Federer has looked better in '14 and '15. I think he is very beatable, if he gets passed Milos, Djokovic should beat him to be honest unless Federer finds another level. His backhand does not look as good as it did on the hard courts, timing is off

by dummy_half Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:00 am

temporary21 wrote:I didnt actually see Roger play, I missed it watching Rafa. Was Dimi really bad or Federer upping his game?

First two sets Fed lost a total of 8 points on serve (didn't see the stats for set 3, but likely similar), so Dimi couldn't make any headway against Fed's service games and the pressure told. I think Fed's been playing pretty well, just trying out a few things in the first three rounds and started to focus today.

Johnny Mac's comment at the start of the match was that they have relatively similar games, it's just that Roger does pretty much everything a bit better. Probably explains the 6-0 head to head.

by Guest Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:06 am

No name Bertie wrote:So Mueller's win was based on winning the first two sets - how did that happen - did anyone see the first two sets?

The best theory I have seen is that it was caused by temporary brain damage to Nadal following a disastrous warm up routine.

by Henman Bill Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:37 am

Federer is now the clear favourite with Rafa's exit giving his odds quite the boost - even though Rafa I think is on the other half of the draw.

Cilic is at 6-1 or 7-1, 4th favourite, well behind the top three favs, and well ahead of the others.

by summerblues Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:48 am

...and just like that, out of the blue, sun is shining, flowers are blooming, birds are singing. What a lovely day!

by summerblues Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:52 am

Henman Bill wrote:decided to take a break from work at 3-3 thinking it would be a 20-min break....

by summerblues Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:55 am

temporary21 wrote:Then play with noone
Fairness of competition is far more important

I can appreciate the sentiment, but that is certainly not how pro sports work (nor how they can work).

by summerblues Tue Jul 11, 2017 12:04 pm

Well, I missed a lot of action. I never get to see Rd16 at Wimbledon and often feel sorry thinking maybe I should have taken a day off.

Plenty of big hitters are still around. It feels like they are doing better this year. Also, it has been a while (or so it feels like) since the last time we had such a distinct difference between the type of players advancing deep at RG and the type of players advancing here.

Cilic's chances must go up significantly. I was not giving him too much of a chance vs Rafa (though perhaps he would have had a chance, having seen today's results) and now his side has opened up. Maybe he can collect his second slam here (still a long shot with Federer, Nole and Andy still being in the tournament)? He is 28 now, so if he does win somehow, he may still have time to add a couple of more after that and end up with a pretty solid career. Long way to go of course.

Happy that Fed's progress has been smooth today. I expected him to win, but thought that Dimi might put up a better fight.

by sirfredperry Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:07 pm

Cilic obviously has a good shot at this now. But it's worth remembering a couple of recent matches he played. First was the one against Fed at Wimbledon last year when he was up two sets, had MPs and still lost. The second was the DC final when he also lost after being 2-0 up - against delpo.
Perhaps a better case could be made for Djoko, although he'll have to play two days running after the ridiculous decision not to put his match on centre last night.
Interesting that Rafa was playing brilliantly up to the fourth round - and didn't play badly last night - and is out, while IMHO neither Fed nor Murray have hit the heights yet but remain in contention.
Also worth considering this. Would the others of the Big Four have made a few more returns against a big server like Muller ? Will Rafa ever win Wimbledon again, given the now long litany of lower-ranked players he's lost to there?

by prostaff85 Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:24 pm

Happy to see that, even on the 'slow' Wimbledon grass of the 21 century, a grass court specialist like Muller can still beat a baseline bully like Nadal.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:16 pm

The most impressive aspect of Gilles Muller was how unflappable he was. He led by two sets to nil and when Rafa got on a roll you'd swear there would only be one winner. You felt sure Muller would wilt in the fifth set but he hung tough. Even when Rafa put the pressure on and had break points and you felt sure Muller would crack he remained icy calm. He showed some delightful touch with volleys at the net when under great pressure and pulled out the big serve when called upon. That takes some doing when you've been on the tour for so long with little to show for it but in the last few months he's had the best results of his career. Full credit to him.

by Guest82 Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:32 pm

Was quite an interesting tactical battle. Muller was serving big in the first two sets, then Nadal started to stand a long way back to receive, which worked for him in sets 3 & 4. Muller then started to serve and volley a lot in set 5, which took away the advantage Rafa had gained by standing back.

Also seemed to me that Muller was having more success attacking the Rafa forehand. I guess players will try to avoid this as much as possible, but his backhand seems the more consistent shot these days.

Djokovic should be ok - he has to play Mannarino and Berdych on consecutive days, but you wouldn't expect him to have any problems with either of them.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:42 pm

Guest82 wrote:

Djokovic should be ok - he has to play Mannarino and Berdych on consecutive days, but you wouldn't expect him to have any problems with either of them.

I know if I was a Djoko fan I'd be fuming at it as there was a simple solution last night. However, it is swings and roundabouts as he has benefited from retirements against him earlier in this tournament and at recent French Opens.

by Guest82 Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:47 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
Guest82 wrote:

Djokovic should be ok - he has to play Mannarino and Berdych on consecutive days, but you wouldn't expect him to have any problems with either of them.

I know if I was a Djoko fan I'd be fuming at it as there was a simple solution last night. However, it is swings and roundabouts as he has benefited from retirements against him earlier in this tournament and at recent French Opens.

It's not great and not very fair, but I think the circumstances could have been worse for him. If he was playing, say, Muller then Cilic then the situation would have been worse. Mannarino is a kind draw for R4 and Berdych has matchup issues with him.

by CaledonianCraig Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:06 pm

Guest82 wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
Guest82 wrote:

Djokovic should be ok - he has to play Mannarino and Berdych on consecutive days, but you wouldn't expect him to have any problems with either of them.

I know if I was a Djoko fan I'd be fuming at it as there was a simple solution last night. However, it is swings and roundabouts as he has benefited from retirements against him earlier in this tournament and at recent French Opens.

It's not great and not very fair, but I think the circumstances could have been worse for him. If he was playing, say, Muller then Cilic then the situation would have been worse. Mannarino is a kind draw for R4 and Berdych has matchup issues with him.

It is very unfortunate as it could easily have been avoided. They could have moved the match onto centre last night after the Federer-Dimitrov match and it would have been finished last night. I'd be interested to know why they never made that move.

by Guest Tue Jul 11, 2017 10:13 pm

Guest82 wrote:Was quite an interesting tactical battle. Muller was serving big in the first two sets, then Nadal started to stand a long way back to receive, which worked for him in sets 3 & 4. Muller then started to serve and volley a lot in set 5, which took away the advantage Rafa had gained by standing back.

Also seemed to me that Muller was having more success attacking the Rafa forehand ...

Thanks - this is a better explanation than my previous theory.

I have also looked at the H2H on grass. They have played three times with Muller either beating Nadal or posing a very serious threat to him:

2017 Wimbledon R16 winner Gilles Muller: 6-3 6-4 3-6 4-6 15-13
2011 Wimbledon R32 winner Rafael Nadal: 7-6(6) 7-6(5) 6-0 Nadal could have easily lost the first two sets.
2005 Wimbledon R64 winner Gilles Muller: 6-4 4-6 6-3 6-4

by naxroy Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:55 am

congrats to Muller, really impressive

Nadal didnt have his best day, probably due to Muller´s game, but he tried as hard as he could. no regrets.

I really had high expectations, but sport is like it is.

Nadal will know how to asimilate this loss

by beshocked Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:09 am

Sadly for Nadal, players have more belief at Wimbledon vs him.

Since 2012 onwards he hasn't been further than the 4th round at Wimbledon.

The other 3 of Federer,Djokovic and Murray have done much better.

Raonic did Murray a massive favour last year. Can he do the same this year?

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