Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

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Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by R!skysports on Mon 10 Jul 2017, 9:54 am

Following all the debates about the series and with the final matches completed, who do you think has raised their stock in terms of how they played, and who have done some reputation damage.

For me

The big raises are
JD
Webb
Henderson
Lawes
Teo
Sean O'Brien
Seymour (top try scorer)


The big drops
Farrell
Cole
Sexton
AWJ
The geographical 6 (but not their fault)

And for people asking why Itoje is not in the lists above, he gets a special mention as being so over hyped that it does not matter how he plays, it will be regarded as godlike. So he get the award
Excellent player, played some good stuff, but not quite as good as people say, lets not cream our pants too much, please he had a fine tour award.


I am sure there are a lot more you can add and discuss


Last edited by R!skysports on Mon 10 Jul 2017, 10:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 10 Jul 2017, 10:01 am

I don't think anyones reputation really flourished or diminished really from a lions pov. There were some really good performances across the whole tour and some poor but not out of what I would really expect. From an England perspective I suppose you could say Watson has shown enough to strongly put himself forward as a full back option but again it was widely considered a possibility before the tour.

Barrett Jr clearly put himself firmly in the limelight after a great debut. Few more questions.on his older brother who didn't really catch fire at any point and obviously missed some kicks he'll be disappointed with in later games.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by BamBam on Mon 10 Jul 2017, 10:04 am

Raised their game

JD - Best centre on either side
Teo - arguably 2nd best
Henderson/Lawes/Itoje - all showed what a lock should be in 2017 - power, athleticism, strong set piece and making impact all over the field
Watson - great counter attacker, was expected to be a midweek at best player
SOB - not a surprise as he always steps up in big games, but went toe to toe
Warburton - 2nd and 3rd tests he was a real nuisance and showed he still has it

Failed to live up to expectations

Cole - never looked at the races
Henshaw/JJ - Many people's favourites as starters, didn't even get close to making enough of an impression
North - whether its concussion or other injuries, looks a completely different player to 4 years ago and not in a good way

Not good enough before the tour, proved it on tour

AWJ

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by marty2086 on Mon 10 Jul 2017, 10:13 am

R!skysports wrote:Following all the debates about the series and with the final matches completed, who do you think has raised their stock in terms of how they played, and who have done some reputation damage.

For me

The big raises are
JD
Webb
Henderson
Lawes
Teo
Sean O'Brien
Seymour (top try scorer)


The big drops
Farrell
Cole
Sexton
Warburton
AWJ
The geographical 6 (but not their fault)

And for people asking why Itoje is not in the lists above, he gets a special mention as being so over hyped that it does not matter how he plays, it will be regarded as godlike. So he get the award
Excellent player, played some good stuff, but not quite as good as people say, lets not cream our pants too much, please he had a fine tour award.


I am sure there are a lot more you can add and discuss

I don't think SOB had his reputation enhanced merely solidified that he was back to his best, I'd put Faletau in the same bracket
Don't think Warburton had a bad tour, he played well and held his own against maybe the best backrow in world rugby

Halfpenny probably saw his reputation suffer from not getting selected at 15
Marler seems to have escaped much criticism somehow despite being pretty poor

Daly and Watson enhanced their reputations for me and actually do look like better players from the experience

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Gwlad on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 2:34 am

good thread I was meaning to do this but too busy laughing at Kiwi posters.


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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Gwlad on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 4:30 am

The good

Gatland - The Happy Clown who ridiculed the Kiwi circus
Warburton - just a class act and rose above all of us with his final genius handling of Poite
JD2- Best 13 in the world.
Faletau - his handling of the pathetic and uncharacteristic remarks of a player for whom I used to have respect is an example to everyone on how to ignore an idiot
AWJ - Shored up a junior tight 5 and even Kaino's dirty tricks couldn't knock him out, while the pups around him went for glory he got down and idd the hard graft
Williams - mercurial magic with occasional big howlers, he still was the point of difference in attack and one wonders if gabs will keep him at 15
Murray - almost the perfect 9. Superb kicking display and took his try superbly to answer his critics
Mako - what an epic display in the last Test. Held up the scrum and I think the stupidity he showed in Test 2 was the foundation for Test 3.
George - but only just, seemed to tire in test 3 and made crucial pressure mistakes which lead me to believe her won't oust Hartley - that and because Egghead is never going to acknowledge Gtas selection
Sinckler - same for this guy, what a superb player and yet I think Gabs picking him might actually cost him, although...Dan Who?
Watson - what a hard working and superbly aggressive wing, shame he over ran at times and you just wanted to see him given an ounce of space.
Daly- One Almighty kick and some nice moments, great decision maker and solid in defense and shored up North's wing very well.
Nowell - defensively suspect but filled his boots whenever he came on, no huge star but. solid tour
Bigger - matured and was solid and would have done a job if required.
Itoje- A legend in the making
Lawes - excellent tour, huge impact
henderson - tough on him not to get a Test opportunity.
SOB - Just superb in every respect and constantly put the NZ on their back foot with his physicality
Te'o from a bit part in the 6 Nations to this excellent tour where he showed his feet and skills mean he will be a central figure in English midfield...unlike
Joseph - wtf my big disappointment, fell out of favor massively and I am sure something else is involved there.
Furlong - the odd moment of madness but he was superb carrying and kept a creaking scrum together for the most part.
The lineout - bearing in mind Woodward let the 05 lineout fall apart I thought it was well lead and executed by Itoje and AWJ.
Campervams - the only way to see NZ!
the Lions - I say again, if you love rugby go on a tour and see it first hand
Poite - a superb and brave refereeing decision left a superb tour about where it should have been.
Retallick - best Kiwi by far


The Bad
Howley - just because I want him gone. If he had anything to do with the attack I doubt it
Sexton - old broken and past it. But he did find another gear in Tests 2 and 3.
Farrell - kicking aside a very average performance.
Halfpenny - finally the golden boy has been put out to pasture - just not required with Sexton and Farrell on the park.
Gets add on selections - nuff said bad move but it did what was required
Best - Was a contender for the Tests but didnt take his chances and must be the worst thrower of darts you'll ever see in the jersey
Owens - failed to impress for a Test start and nearly did an O Gara at the end of Test 3
Cole - yes, he was on tour
Haskell - meh
Tipuric - yes he was also on tour. Why bother taking the most exciting back rower in the home Nations if you aren't going to use him.
Marler - I expected him to make more of an impact and like Cole he just vanished.
Stander - saw little of his rampaging rugby.
McGrath - another who just failed to take his chance.
Seymour - ok we knew he was a mid weeker but he dropped a sitter of a pass for an easy score.
Laidlaw - Scotland's best tourist
Webb - again I think he offers a huge amount but never made his case and wa cover excited in the last Test.
The scrum - nearly ugly but just held it together.

The Ugly
Kiwi gameplan - why cross kick? Why go wide before you earned it?
Barrett - at the end  of the day his kicking cost them the tour
Scots behavior about selection - and they wonder why they dont get picked. Blame Townsend.
North - why bother, he's like Sheridan, a tank with the demeanor of Ferdinand the Bull, went off home to smell flowers.
Hogg - terrible injury but I think it was a blessing in disguise because Williams was superb at 15 and he was poor when he played.
Youngs - poor bloke
Payne - what a mare for the Irish Kiwi. Failed to turn up
Ebop - more of the same
Taylorman - even worse!
SBW - just a disgrace
Brand All Black - see above
The hakakaka - one more and I may slit my throat.
Kiwi press - even worse than SBW, a shower
Hansen - why red card Kaino when SBW sent off...d'oh.
Welington - just because
Eddie Jones - can't shut his trap and had to undermine Gats every move
Sir Clive - writes as badly about how he won RWC 1703 as he did leading the Lions in 05.

3 days later....totally forgot Henshaw, shows what a stinker he had.


Faaaaack...KRUIS! 5 days later, forgot him too! what a bad tour, people criticize gabs for picking AWJ when really this guy was the prize let down, just not enough rugby and it showed and he did his rep no good at all


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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by aucklandlaurie on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 4:31 am

Kyle Sinckler enhanced his reputation.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by ebop on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 7:03 am

The three French musketeers raised their profile
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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by yappysnap on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 7:32 am

From an England perspective Cole, Marler, JJ and Nowell will all want to get back to their clubs and put it behind them, for what ever reason none of them managed to really raise their games or play to their best. Nowell had a mare, while the other three were pretty anonymous.

Haskell will be happy to have just got out there.

Synkler, Itoje, Lawes, Mako, Watson and Farrell will all be pleased with their performances. But for England it'll mean little, biggest question is who starts at lock now, Lawes has put down a marker over the summer.

George played below himself, tbh this tour just proves how right Eddie is using him as a finisher, he seems far more dynamic that way and contributes more across the park.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by munkian on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 8:37 am

yappysnap wrote:From an England perspective Cole, Marler, JJ and Nowell will all want to get back to their clubs and put it behind them, for what ever reason none of them managed to really raise their games or play to their best. Nowell had a mare, while the other three were pretty anonymous.

Haskell will be happy to have just got out there.

Synkler, Itoje, Lawes, Mako, Watson and Farrell will all be pleased with their performances. But for England it'll mean little, biggest question is who starts at lock now, Lawes has put down a marker over the summer.

George played below himself, tbh this tour just proves how right Eddie is using him as a finisher, he seems far more dynamic that way and contributes more across the park.

I think Mako was lucky to start the 3rd test, no ?
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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by lostinwales on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 12:29 pm

Problem with the appraisals of the front row players in particular is that so often they don't play 80 minutes. They get subbed.

If George had been replaced 5 minutes earlier he wouldn't have had the two bad throws that everyone is banging on about and his performance rating might go up from 'poor' to 'average'. He's not responsible for staying on the pitch 5 minutes past his 'play by' time. Similar issue with Mako.

It's not that they could not have played better, but it does seem that their performance is being judged on the few minutes that, arguably, they should not have been on the pitch anyway.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 1:18 pm

Gwlad wrote:The good

Gatland - The Happy Clown who ridiculed the Kiwi circus - best thing he did.
Warburton - just a class act and rose above all of us with his final genius handling of Poite Was very good, better than I expected
JD2- Best 13 in the world. No that was Carling..................he was very good but that is overstated.
Faletau - his handling of the pathetic and uncharacteristic remarks of a player for whom I used to have respect is an example to everyone on how to ignore an idiot.- Played well but needs to carry more in the tight
AWJ - Shored up a junior tight 5 and even Kaino's dirty tricks couldn't knock him out, while the pups around him went for glory he got down and idd the hard graft. - We all have our delusions, average at best with better players available.
Williams - mercurial magic with occasional big howlers, he still was the point of difference in attack and one wonders if gabs will keep him at 15 - Good in attack, but woeful under the high ball, Owens would have got the blame if Poite had given that last minute penalty, but it was Williams fault.
Murray - almost the perfect 9. Superb kicking display and took his try superbly to answer his critics Great kicking, but a bit slow and easily read.
[/i]Mako - what an epic display in the last Test. Held up the scrum and I think the stupidity he showed in Test 2 was the foundation for Test 3. _ Thought he was a bit average actually until 3rd test, still needs to scrimmage better
George - but only just, seemed to tire in test 3 and made crucial pressure mistakes which lead me to believe her won't oust Hartley - that and because Egghead is never going to acknowledge Gtas selection You can see why EJ selects him as an impact sub, can't last beyond 60 minutes, not the rampaging lump he is for England
Sinckler - same for this guy, what a superb player and yet I think Gabs picking him might actually cost him, although...Dan Who? Agreed but needs to hold his temper
Watson - what a hard working and superbly aggressive wing, shame he over ran at times and you just wanted to see him given an ounce of space. Showed what he could become at 15
Daly- One Almighty kick and some nice moments, great decision maker and solid in defense and shored up North's wing very well. Disappointed in him, he is supposed to be the best defensive winger England have
Nowell - defensively suspect but filled his boots whenever he came on, no huge star but. solid tour
Bigger - matured and was solid and would have done a job if required. Like a few others didn't get the chance to show it
Itoje- A legend in the making - what do you mean "in the making" already there ( especially of you are related to Beshocked)
Lawes - excellent tour, huge impact Should have started tests 2 & 3, best lock in the NH for the past year.
henderson - tough on him not to get a Test opportunity. Agreed, but we all know why he didn't.
SOB - Just superb in every respect and constantly put the NZ on their back foot with his physicality Back to his old self.
Te'o from a bit part in the 6 Nations to this excellent tour where he showed his feet and skills mean he will be a central figure in English midfield...unlike Will give EJ a headache working= out how to use him
Joseph - wtf my big disappointment, fell out of favor massively and I am sure something else is involved there. Would have liked to see an experiment of JD2 at 12 and Joseph at 13, could have been electric.
Furlong - the odd moment of madness but he was superb carrying and kept a creaking scrum together for the most part. Graet ability for one so young (for a prop)
The lineout - bearing in mind Woodward let the 05 lineout fall apart I thought it was well lead and executed by Itoje and AWJ. With all his experience, it's a pity that AWJ bottled it and left the calling to a young lad.
Campervams - the only way to see NZ!
the Lions - I say again, if you love rugby go on a tour and see it first hand
Poite - a superb and brave refereeing decision left a superb tour about where it should have been.
Retallick - best Kiwi by far


The Bad
Howley - just because I want him gone. If he had anything to do with the attack I doubt it Worst attack coach in rugby
Sexton - old broken and past it. But he did find another gear in Tests 2 and 3. should have been Ford, don't lose much in defence, but gain a lot in attack
Farrell - kicking aside a very average performance. Sexton is no Ford, Should have been at 10 or not benched
Halfpenny - finally the golden boy has been put out to pasture - just not required with Sexton and Farrell on the park. Could have done with his catching, can you merge him with Williams
Gets add on selections - nuff said bad move but it did what was required Idiotic and then bottled playing them
Best - Was a contender for the Tests but didnt take his chances and must be the worst thrower of darts you'll ever see in the jersey I thought that was George from the vitriol he has received about them two throws
Owens - failed to impress for a Test start and nearly did an O Gara at the end of Test 3 Should have been Hartley
Cole - yes, he was on tour Didn't see enough of him to know.
Haskell - meh Bit like that all this season
Tipuric - yes he was also on tour. Why bother taking the most exciting back rower in the home Nations if you aren't going to use him.[/i ] Thought he looked very good when he got the chance
Marler - [i]I expected him to make more of an impact and like Cole he just vanished
. Didn't really get the chance to do anything
Stander - saw little of his rampaging rugby. Agreed
McGrath - another who just failed to take his chance. Thought he looked solid when he came on
Seymour - ok we knew he was a mid weeker but he dropped a sitter of a pass for an easy score. Not sure the highest try scorer can bee judged a failure when as you said he was always a mid weeker
Laidlaw - Scotland's best tourist He did what Laidlaw does, controlled things.
Webb - again I think he offers a huge amount but never made his case and wa cover excited in the last Test. Would have liked to see more, was very lively when on, things speeded up compered to Murrays delivery
The scrum - nearly ugly but just held it together. Looked very good in the last 20 for some reason.................

The Ugly
Kiwi gameplan - why cross kick? Why go wide before you earned it?
Barrett - at the end  of the day his kicking cost them the tour
Scots behavior about selection - and they wonder why they dont get picked. Blame Townsend. No! Gatland, wouldn't pick better players when they were available in the same time zone.
North - why bother, he's like Sheridan, a tank with the demeanor of Ferdinand the Bull, went off home to smell flowers. Disappointing, hope he improves for the new season
Hogg - terrible injury but I think it was a blessing in disguise because Williams was superb at 15 and he was poor when he played. Hogg might have caught a few more than Williams and is just as good in attack, if not defense.
Youngs - poor bloke Poor blokes brother and Sister in Law
Payne - what a mare for the Irish Kiwi. Failed to turn up Looked okay until injured
Ebop - more of the same
Taylorman - even worse!
SBW - just a disgrace
Brand All Black - see above
The hakakaka - one more and I may slit my throat.
Kiwi press - even worse than SBW, a shower
Hansen - why red card Kaino when SBW sent off...d'oh.
Welington - just because
Eddie Jones - can't shut his trap and had to undermine Gats every move It's that Aus vs NZ thing
Sir Clive - writes as badly about how he won RWC 1703 as he did leading the Lions in 05.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by profitius on Tue 11 Jul 2017, 9:45 pm

Contrary to some opinions above, I thought Sexton was superb and himself and Farrell really sparked the Lions attack.


aucklandlaurie wrote:Kyle Sinckler enhanced his reputation.


Lol. He was a lucky boy in the second test when his fellow Lions players had to haul him back from getting into 2 fights. Plus his scrummaging isn't great. Cole should have been on the bench for the 3rd test.
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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Gwlad on Wed 12 Jul 2017, 4:23 am

Did Sicnkler throw a little person? What is it with English players in NZ?

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by exile jack on Wed 12 Jul 2017, 8:11 am

To put the 2017 Lions Tour in historical perspective only 2 sides have won full test tours to NZ since the formation of the NZRFU in 1897.The 1937 Springboks,known as The Invincibles in SA,and the 1971 Lions.In turn,it took until 1996 for the AB's to win their only test series in SA,and they are known as The Incomparables in NZ.What the Lions achieved was truly remarkable given their preparation time and the tour schedule.The Lions were given no respect or prospect of success at the start of the Tour but they were well respected at the end of it.As one of the NZ supporters put it the AB's tour to the UK in November should be called the Redemption Tour.Can't wait.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Hood83 on Thu 13 Jul 2017, 8:49 pm

profitius wrote:Contrary to some opinions above, I thought Sexton was superb and himself and Farrell really sparked the Lions attack.


aucklandlaurie wrote:Kyle Sinckler enhanced his reputation.


Lol. He was a lucky boy in the second test when his fellow Lions players had to haul him back from getting into 2 fights. Plus his scrummaging isn't great. Cole should have been on the bench for the 3rd test.

Yeah I thought criticism was unfair too, I thought he played well. He was willing to take it to the line and get absolutely whacked, took guts and skill and I think it made a difference in fixing the AB centres.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:12 am

Sexton played the third test with a broken wrist and still played well. Only missed 1 tackle for the series.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:19 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Sexton played the third test with a broken wrist and still played well. Only missed 1 tackle for the series.
Maybe the wrist injury stopped him being able to try that silly loop move. That could only have been good for the Lions.

There are broken wrists and there are broken wrists. I doubt it was hanging off though Smile

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:20 am

Cyril wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Sexton played the third test with a broken wrist and still played well. Only missed 1 tackle for the series.
Maybe the wrist injury stopped him being able to try that silly loop move. That could only have been good for the Lions.

There are broken wrists and there are broken wrists. I doubt it was hanging off though Smile

He made the Lions second most yards in the game and made his tackles. Shame Farrell had a stinker over three tests.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:23 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Sexton played the third test with a broken wrist and still played well. Only missed 1 tackle for the series.
Maybe the wrist injury stopped him being able to try that silly loop move. That could only have been good for the Lions.

There are broken wrists and there are broken wrists. I doubt it was hanging off though Smile

He made the Lions second most yards in the game and made his tackles. Shame Farrell had a stinker over three tests.
Nah, I thought Farrell did ok, considering the ball he was getting from his half backs. Farrell was integral in the Test 2 tries. He really should have moved to 10 but Gats seemed to want to keep faith with another old favourite (AWJ and Sexton were two players riding on reputation).

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:28 am

Of those two I would say that Farrell's stock has stayed about the same (not a great tour, but decent enough) and Sexton has confirmed that he is yesterday's man. To be fair to him, he is getting on a bit and left his peak some years ago. With the smashing he's got in recent years I doubt he's the type of player to have a resurgence as I don't think he's got the long-term durability of the likes of the other Jonny.

Sexton has been a good servant to the game though. He reminds me of Toby Flood.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:30 am

Cyril wrote:Of those two I would say that Farrell's stock has stayed about the same (not a great tour, but decent enough) and Sexton has confirmed that he is yesterday's man. To be fair to him, he is getting on a bit and left his peak some years ago. With the smashing he's got in recent years I doubt he's the type of player to have a resurgence as I don't think he's got the long-term durability of the likes of the other Jonny.

Sexton has been a good servant to the game though. He reminds me of Toby Flood.

He had a torn tendon in his ankle and a broken wrist in the third test and still tackled better than door matt Farrell.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 9:33 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
Cyril wrote:Of those two I would say that Farrell's stock has stayed about the same (not a great tour, but decent enough) and Sexton has confirmed that he is yesterday's man. To be fair to him, he is getting on a bit and left his peak some years ago. With the smashing he's got in recent years I doubt he's the type of player to have a resurgence as I don't think he's got the long-term durability of the likes of the other Jonny.

Sexton has been a good servant to the game though. He reminds me of Toby Flood.

He had a torn tendon in his ankle and a broken wrist in the third test and still tackled better than door matt Farrell.
Sexton's injury list keeps rising. He's like the Terminator!

It's just as well there was no 4th Test or he may have been playing with a plastic spine and buttock implants.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:05 am

I feel for the English fans. They always have to choose between an exciting 10 who is very error prone or a dependable one-dimensional 10. Thankfully, Ireland seem to produce 10s who can do the lot to a high standard.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:12 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I feel for the English fans. They always have to choose between an exciting 10 who is very error prone or a dependable one-dimensional 10. Thankfully, Ireland seem to produce 10s who can do the lot to a high standard.
Ireland probably play the most boring, risk-averse rugby of the 6 Nations sides though. I wouldn't say Sexton is particularly exciting (and certainly not now), O'Gara certainly wasn't. Plodders.

Your best 10 in recent years was probably Shane Geraghty Laugh

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by MichaelT on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:51 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:I feel for the English fans. They always have to choose between an exciting 10 who is very error prone or a dependable one-dimensional 10. Thankfully, Ireland seem to produce 10s who can do the lot to a high standard.

Except be relied on to kick on Lions tours... 2009, 2013, 2017...

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 10:59 am

Yeah I'm really upset at the tens we have to choose from!

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:01 am

MichaelT wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:I feel for the English fans. They always have to choose between an exciting 10 who is very error prone or a dependable one-dimensional 10. Thankfully, Ireland seem to produce 10s who can do the lot to a high standard.

Except be relied on to kick on Lions tours... 2009, 2013, 2017...

Was Halfpenny not kicker in '13 and Stephen Jones in '09?

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:03 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
MichaelT wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:I feel for the English fans. They always have to choose between an exciting 10 who is very error prone or a dependable one-dimensional 10. Thankfully, Ireland seem to produce 10s who can do the lot to a high standard.

Except be relied on to kick on Lions tours... 2009, 2013, 2017...

Was Halfpenny not kicker in '13 and Stephen Jones in '09?
Which is why he said that these Irish 10s cannot be relied upon to kick. You would think they would if they have such an all-round game. Remember Sexton bottling it against NZ a few years back?

Farrell was key in the tries and kicked the goals when it mattered. I very much doubt the Lions would have got anything out of the games with Sexton kicking.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:10 am

In '09 there wasnt a starting OH from Ireland in any of the tests. In '13 Halfpenny was the best kicker on tour. In '17 Farrell was meant to be the best kicker on tour but his stats were lower than Barrett's going into the test series.

Nailed some important kicks but was quite poor over all.

Both Paddy Jackson and Sexton also had higher kicking stats in the six nations than Farrell who lets face it has had a pretty bad year.

http://goalkickers.co.za/

Sexton's career six nations kicking stats are also higher than Farrell's six nations stats. However, as usual facts aren't your strong point Cyril.


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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:15 am

Looks like Sexton only goes for easy kicks according to those stats. Is he the new Chris Paterson?

Plus he only attempted 8 and was very much a bit part kicker.

Cherry-picking stats as usual are you?

I do quite like that link though OK

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:21 am

If you change the filter to 'All' Farrell comes in 4th and Sexton is on the 3rd page at 21st with Jackson at 24.

Sounds about right Smile

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by MichaelT on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:24 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Both Paddy Jackson and Sexton also had higher kicking stats in the six nations than Farrell who lets face it has had a pretty bad year.

http://goalkickers.co.za/

Sexton's career six nations kicking stats are also higher than Farrell's six nations stats. However, as usual facts aren't your strong point Cyril.


Farrell has a had a bad year! laughing You couldn't make it up.


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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:25 am

Cyril wrote:Looks like Sexton only goes for easy kicks according to those stats. Is he the new Chris Paterson?

Plus he only attempted 8 and was very much a bit part kicker.

Cherry-picking stats as usual are you?

I do quite like that link though OK

How is it cherry picking when Sexton's overall six nations kicking stats are stronger than Farrell's? Could it be that Farrell is a tad over rated in England? Just because he draws a silly imaginary line from the ball with his head to the posts every time he kicks doesn't make him a great kicker.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:25 am

I've no idea what period that site covers but Guns is getting desperate now. The Irish Gwlad.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:28 am

MichaelT wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Both Paddy Jackson and Sexton also had higher kicking stats in the six nations than Farrell who lets face it has had a pretty bad year.

http://goalkickers.co.za/

Sexton's career six nations kicking stats are also higher than Farrell's six nations stats. However, as usual facts aren't your strong point Cyril.


Farrell has a had a bad year!  laughing You couldn't make it up.


You don't need to make it up. He was poor in the six nations particularly against Italy and he was one of the weakest players on the Lions test squad particularly in defence where he was statistically the weakest.

He won the champions cup with Saracens but only ever really looks good behind a pack as dominant as Sarries' pack.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by MichaelT on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:28 am

Sexton isn't even liked in Ireland. Talking to people here and most complain bout him. Sourpuss nickname on most websites too.

I live in Ireland so I know what I'm talking about.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:29 am

I'm not sure even Sexton's mum likes his face.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by MichaelT on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:31 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote: You don't need to make it up. He was poor in the six nations particularly against Italy and he was one of the weakest players on the Lions test squad particularly in defence where he was statistically the weakest.

He won the champions cup with Saracens but only ever really looks good behind a pack as dominant as Sarries' pack.

Most England players were poor that day - and they still won by 21 points. So nevermind. Weakest players on Lions tests and played every minute. laughing

Also won Six Nations by forth weekend. Stick to cherry-picking facts, like the Irish team who cherry-pick matches.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:33 am

MichaelT wrote:Sexton isn't even liked in Ireland. Talking to people here and most complain bout him. Sourpuss nickname on most websites too.

I live in Ireland so I know what I'm talking about.

Id say you live in Cork or Limerick? I think he has a slapable face myself as does Farrell but you cant question Sexton's rugby pedigree. 2 six nations, three European cups, two Lions tours.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:35 am

MichaelT wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote: You don't need to make it up. He was poor in the six nations particularly against Italy and he was one of the weakest players on the Lions test squad particularly in defence where he was statistically the weakest.

He won the champions cup with Saracens but only ever really looks good behind a pack as dominant as Sarries' pack.

Most England players were poor that day - and they still won by 21 points. So nevermind. Weakest players on Lions tests and played every minute. laughing

Also won Six Nations by forth weekend. Stick to cherry-picking facts, like the Irish team who cherry-pick matches.

He should have been dropped after the first test when his defensive liabilities became apparent. Its hardly surprising that he was relegated to 12 for both England and the Lions.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:39 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
MichaelT wrote:Sexton isn't even liked in Ireland. Talking to people here and most complain bout him. Sourpuss nickname on most websites too.

I live in Ireland so I know what I'm talking about.

Id say you live in Cork or Limerick? I think he has a slapable face myself as does Farrell but you cant question Sexton's rugby pedigree. 2 six nations, three European cups, two Lions tours.
Farrell is 25 and has almost matched that (less one European cup).

Terrible year for Farrell Smile

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/39908192

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:41 am

I think the Irish (maybe even Sexton, depending if Jackson is available) will raise their game again for England in the 6 Nations again. England will be too strong at HQ for Schmidt's limited gameplan though.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by MichaelT on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:45 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
MichaelT wrote:Sexton isn't even liked in Ireland. Talking to people here and most complain bout him. Sourpuss nickname on most websites too.

I live in Ireland so I know what I'm talking about.

Id say you live in Cork or Limerick? I think he has a slapable face myself as does Farrell but you cant question Sexton's rugby pedigree. 2 six nations, three European cups, two Lions tours.

Nope. I don't live in either of those places. Sextons achievements are good. Didnt say they werent. At 25 Farrell has surpassed them though in my eyes. Was Sexton even starting for Leinster at that age?

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 11:59 am

MichaelT wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:
MichaelT wrote:Sexton isn't even liked in Ireland. Talking to people here and most complain bout him. Sourpuss nickname on most websites too.

I live in Ireland so I know what I'm talking about.

Id say you live in Cork or Limerick? I think he has a slapable face myself as does Farrell but you cant question Sexton's rugby pedigree. 2 six nations, three European cups, two Lions tours.

Nope. I don't live in either of those places. Sextons achievements are good. Didnt say they werent. At 25 Farrell has surpassed them though in my eyes. Was Sexton even starting for Leinster at that age?

No he hasn't surpassed Sexton. Sexton has been starting 10 for two successful Lions tours. Farrell has been a test starter in 1 tour where he was poor. He isnt even an out half he is a midfielder with no defence.

The day Farrell scores 28 points including 2 tries in a Heineken cup final and plays 10 in a Lions tour you might be able to claim he has surpassed Sexton until then Farrell is just another limited 10 hiding behind a big pack who cant even get selected in his "best" position.

He is on track to become the next Austin Healy.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:03 pm

Laugh you do make me laugh, Guns.

Utterly one-eyed in terms of both Ireland and Leinster, but you're quite an amusing persona on here.

You're on track to become the next Gwlad.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:06 pm

Cyril wrote:Laugh you do make me laugh, Guns.

Utterly one-eyed in terms of both Ireland and Leinster, but you're quite an amusing persona on here.

You're on track to become the next Gwlad.

Think you have a fairly voyeuristic obsession with Gwlad. Its a bit creepy Cyril. Im sure the poor guy doesnt feel that comfortable about you talking about him all the time.

Re Leinster and Ireland feel free to point out anything I have said that isnt true.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by MichaelT on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:07 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:The day Farrell scores 28 points including 2 tries in a Heineken cup final and plays 10 in a Lions tour you might be able to claim he has surpassed Sexton until then Farrell is just another limited 10 hiding behind a big pack.

Farrell started at 10 for the 1st test - were you not paying attention as your hero wasnt on the pitch?

And so what about the 2011 cup final - Northamption shot their bolt in the first half. Like Ireland did v New Zealand in 2013. All Sexton can do is play well against England or English teams in Dublin. Other than that he is more hit and miss than a one-eyed tennis player.

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by Cyril on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:08 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Re Leinster and Ireland feel free to point out anything I have said that isnt true.
Almost everything you post about Ireland losing and it always being the refs fault (approx 50% of your posting).

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Re: Who has raised their stock, or dropped a stinker

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:11 pm

Cyril wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:Re Leinster and Ireland feel free to point out anything I have said that isnt true.
Almost everything you post about Ireland losing and it always being the refs fault (approx 50% of your posting).

Glad you cleared that up with very specific references.

You seem to have a chip on your shoulder. Are you ok Cyril? Do you want to talk about it?


Last edited by GunsGermsV2 on Thu 20 Jul 2017, 12:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

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