Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

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Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 11:12 am

Thought I would combine the final weekend so posters can also look ahead to the men's final on Sunday. Mug v Venus promises to be a good match. Mug has reached one Wimbledon final, is a GS winner and is playing very confidently. So at the very least she should be competitive against Venus.
  Conchita is helping Mug and in some ways this final resembles that of the 1994 Wimbledon final when Conchita played an ageing but still good former champion in Martina Navratilova - and won.
   Really, you could make a good case for this afternoon's final going either way.
   Harder to make such a good case for Cilic, although the Croat is playing well and, like Mug, is a GS winner. Cilic won't, for example, be able to chuck away a tiebreak against Fed as he did against Querrey. Marin will, clearly, have to be at his best to win and even that may not be enough if Fed is at HIS best. Cilic played some excellent tennis against Rog at Wimbledon last year and still lost. 
   A 19th GS for Rog is going to set the bar even higher for those in pursuit. Even a defeat tomorrow should see Rog have an excellent chance of finishing in the top two by the season's end.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by newballs on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 11:22 am

Muguruza has only ever played the Williams sisters in her three slam finals and becomes(I believe) the first player to play both of them in the Wimbledon final.
Personally I think the fact that she's been in the final before will really help her and if she carries on hitting her backhand down the line like she has done all tournament plus attacking the net whenever possible she will have every chance of winning the title.

Cilic might well find Federer a tougher proposition. Roger's playing as well as ever and I'm not sure Marin really believes he can beat him on his favourite stage.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Guest on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 11:31 am

Has Cilic got anything to lose? He can come out swinging. He also has time on his hands - he can think he will have several more chances to win Wimbledon. Federer knows his time could be over at any time. Federer will like to keep things short - while Cilic must imagine if it goes long it will favour him - the younger man. But hopefully both just go out and enjoy the experience. If that is the case it could be highly entertaining.

With regards to Venus Williams - apparently she has just recovered from a long debilitating illness? Or at least debilitating in the sense of not being able to maintain elite level training and match day competitiveness.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by newballs on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 11:51 am

Yes Venus has struggled with a dehabilitating illness for some time and seems back to nearer full health.
I still think at 37 her experience is offset by her advancing years somewhat so it'll be interesting to see how she copes if Garbine makes it a very physical battle.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Nadalnation on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 12:46 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Thought I would combine the final weekend so posters can also look ahead to the men's final on Sunday. Mug v Venus promises to be a good match. Mug has reached one Wimbledon final, is a GS winner and is playing very confidently. So at the very least she should be competitive against Venus.
  Conchita is helping Mug and in some ways this final resembles that of the 1994 Wimbledon final when Conchita played an ageing but still good former champion in Martina Navratilova - and won.
   Really, you could make a good case for this afternoon's final going either way.
   Harder to make such a good case for Cilic, although the Croat is playing well and, like Mug, is a GS winner. Cilic won't, for example, be able to chuck away a tiebreak against Fed as he did against Querrey. Marin will, clearly, have to be at his best to win and even that may not be enough if Fed is at HIS best. Cilic played some excellent tennis against Rog at Wimbledon last year and still lost. 
   A 19th GS for Rog is going to set the bar even higher for those in pursuit. Even a defeat tomorrow should see Rog have an excellent chance of finishing in the top two by the season's end.


Which I'm sure means diddly squat to him. Its a win or nothing.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Guest on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 12:49 pm

When the Williams sisters burst on the scene they were the ones adding power into the women's game. Venus Williams looked to have the perfect tennis physique, tall, rangy, powerful, with a potent serve. Serena was the shorter, stockier player, with apparently the stronger will to win.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by newballs on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 12:58 pm

Yes and there's a famous quote from the dad something along the lines of 'If you think Venus is good wait until you see Serena'. Not word for word but there was no doubting his meaning.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by MrInvisible on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 3:06 pm

Muguruza wins a good quality 1st set 7-5. Venus had 2 set points at 5-4 - arguably had a decent chance on the 1st one that she blew, but couldn't really do much on the 2nd one where Muguruza put down a great serve.

There's been some ferocious hitting at times - there were a couple of looser games with more errors from both players in middle of set, but so far, a good final.

Errors creeping into Venus' game in the 2nd set early stages - she really needs to get more 1st serves in and hold serve for first couple of games.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by MrInvisible on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 3:12 pm

And Muguruza gets the early break - this could be over in the next 15-20 mins unless Venus starts cutting down on the errors.


Last edited by MrInvisible on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 3:13 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Missed out Venus)

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 3:32 pm

7-5, 6-0 for Mug with Venus (injured, ill?) pretty much falling apart at the end. Full marks to Garbine, though. She warded off those SPs in the first set and never looked back after that. Tremendous attacking play and excellent court movement.
   So Mug becomes a multiple Slam winner.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by MrInvisible on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 4:36 pm

Enjoyable 1st set, rather disappointing 2nd set, but well done to Muguruza, maintained high quality throughout the match and matched Venus when she was at her best in 1st set.

Entertainment value: 6/10 (8 for 1st set, 4 for 2nd set).

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Guest on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 4:43 pm

I listened to a bit of it on the radio - but too noisy for me to listen to for long.  It seems that 23 year old Muguruza had too much youthful energy, power and determination for 37 year old Venus.   Muguruza is 3 months older than Laura Robson. If Muguruza can improve on her consistency - she will likely become the dominant force in women's tennis for some time.

Next up 35 year old Federer against 28 year old Cilic.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by newballs on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 5:13 pm

It does make you wonder what Laura might herself be achieving if injuries plus motivational(?) problems hadn't got in her way.
Garbine seems the ultimate big match player with two of her four titles being slams. Plus the fact that she's beaten both the Williams sisters to win them.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 15 Jul 2017, 6:00 pm

Those hoping for a breakthrough from some of the young and younger male players on the tour will be envious of the women's tour where a 23-year-old has just won her second GS and where a 20-year-old took the French title last month.
   Bizarre print-media, post-match press conference by Venus, apparently, where she seemed distracted and obfuscatory. I still wonder whether all was well with her in that second set.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:27 am

Some cold weather here in Chile overnight and rain took out the cable TV all day. Completely dead and so missed the women's final and may miss the men's final. It's at 9am here so it's not like I can even go out to a bar to watch it. I might have to request/look for some dodgy stream if the cable TV doesn't come back soon.

I think Cilic will end up doing the opposite of his US Open performance, peaking at the start of the tournament this time instead of the end. While Federer has saved some vintage for the final. Federer is straights with one tiebreak.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:46 am

By the look of this list
http://www.tennis28.com/slams/agerecords_winners.html#oldest
Federer would be the oldest Wimbledon champion of the open era, but not quite of any slam.

Federer, if he wins, would be the oldest male Wimbledon champion of the open era by quite some margin. Arther Ashe at 31 years, 11 months. After that it's Federer himself in 2012 as the next oldest!

On the women's side, Navratilova is the oldest of the modern era, winning her 9th title at the age of 33. She also won a mixed doubles, also at Wimbledon, at the age of 46! I think I vaguely remember watching a bit of that.

Arthur Gore was 41 when he won the 1909 title, according to http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/news/articles/2013-06-29/20130629_201306171371466343940.html.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 8:14 am

Should Fed win, will it be the longest between first and last male triumphs (2003 and 2017) at a GS in the Open Era? Rog has already managed a 13-year gap between his 04 and 17 AO triumphs.
    Rosewall did 20 years between finals at Wimbledon (1954 and 1974) but lost both, of course.
   Just looked up Serena's record and she managed a 15-year gap between USO wins in 1999 and 2014.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 9:10 am

Really hope Cilic can do it today. Goran tipped him before the start

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by kemet on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 1:22 pm

Good Morning Ladies and Gents, well the men's final is set to get underway in about 45 minutes. I think the key for Roger is to have a great 1st serve percentage and to attack Marin's second serves whenever the opportunities present themselves, especially on break point opportunities. Although Roger has been fairly solid without being at his imperious best during these championships, I still think he has the tendency to rely on the slice backhand a bit too much on break points and also a tendency to be somewhat tentative, waiting on his opponent to make an error.  Roger should try to avoid tie breaks as much as possible as they can be a bit of a lottery.

Conversely, if Marin serves very well, we can have quite a match. The key here will be how Roger copes with Marin's power.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by kemet on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 1:28 pm

On an unrelated note, Chris Evert just delivered a sharp rebuke to Brad Gilbert during the ESPN commentary. Brad kept interrupting her while she was speaking and she finally broke down and said, "Can I please have a chance to finish my sentence" This was followed by "I am sorry but you will get your turn" A few seconds later, she tried to soften things by turning to a chastened and embarrassed Brad Gilbert by putting her hand on him and saying,"I am sorry, what were you trying to say"

Normally I ignore these things, but I felt the embarrassment for Brad. However, he really was interrupting Ms. Evert constantly so she was justified in feeling put off.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by summerblues on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 1:42 pm

Good luck Roger!

I think he should win, and possibly quite easily, but it would not be the craziest thing I ever saw if Cilic won. Cilic will have to go for his shots and hope they land in more than not.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 1:56 pm

So much about what Fed should or should not do, what about Marin Cilic? What he should do to beat Fed? I see it's really pro Fed here, it's like most if not all here want Fed to win, after already winning so much at Wimbledon.

I do hope Marin can surprise everyone and get to win his first Wimbledon ( who knows whether he has anymore chances in future!).

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by lags72 on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:10 pm

If Cilic gets into the same hot zone that he did at the USO, then he can take his second Slam here. He has the game ; whether he can produce it today remains to be seen.

Odds had tightened to 7/2 by the time I placed my bet on Cilic ; but I still thought it worth a sneaky punt of £30.

For Federer it merely adds a post-script to the legacy. For Cilic, this can shape the rest of his career.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Guest on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:19 pm

Federer vs Cilic could go either way. With Federer's age - it depends on what side of the bed he gets out of. How many times is Cilic going to be broken? How many times is Federer going to be broken? How many tie-breakers will there be?

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:21 pm

Good analysis Kemet, watching the first couple of games my early take on it is that first serve % is going to be important. I don't fancy the ability of either of them to defend their second serve consistently given nerves and their opponent's power.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:24 pm

My 5 year old son came to wake me up about 10 minutes before the start and ask me if I wanted the main TV for the tennis (it's now working!). Isn't that the cutest thing!

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Scottrf on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:32 pm

Why don't the line judges delay calls until after the player has had the opportunity to play the shot?

Then you don't have to replay if they miss and the ball was actually in.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by kemet on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:32 pm

Break of serve accomplished; now time to consolidate the break, which is easier said than done for a player who has already served two double faults.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:37 pm

Federer is playing very well in terms of tactics/variety and few errors, but I'm not convinced yet if his eye is fully in - you know his timing and seeing the ball. I don't feel he is going full out for this reason. If he starts to go for an inch over the net from baseline to baseline at 90mph with a full swing, it feels like he would miss it. His hitting doesn't feel or sound totally clean. That could be due to the lack of a fully true bounce on grass, or specifically the court conditions this year. Or maybe he's just warming up and it will come later.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:37 pm

It was good to see him get the break with some flat rather than sliced backhands, however.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Guest on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:37 pm

Scottrf wrote:Why don't the line judges delay calls until after the player has had the opportunity to play the shot?

Then you don't have to replay if they miss and the ball was actually in.
Because they have to react on their first impression. If they all start delaying calls they will start making mistakes and will lose control of the match.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Scottrf on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:42 pm

No name Bertie wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Why don't the line judges delay calls until after the player has had the opportunity to play the shot?

Then you don't have to replay if they miss and the ball was actually in.
Because they have to react on their first impression.  If they all start delaying calls they will start making mistakes and will lose control of the match.  
Will forget their call 0.1 seconds later?

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Guest on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:47 pm

Scottrf wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Why don't the line judges delay calls until after the player has had the opportunity to play the shot?

Then you don't have to replay if they miss and the ball was actually in.
Because they have to react on their first impression.  If they all start delaying calls they will start making mistakes and will lose control of the match.  
Will forget their call 0.1 seconds later?
You want the opponent to hit the ball to continue the point - and then check to see if the ball was out later? Why otherwise delay?

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:48 pm

Ominous last game to the first set for Cilic - Federer still not making mistakes and his attack is sharpening up as well...

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by kemet on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:49 pm

Rather anticlimactic end to the first set, but Roger's 1st serve % definitely improved after his first two service games in the first set.

It is a shame Marin could not have at least make Roger serve out the first set.

The key now is for Roger not to go walkabout, as has been his wont in the last few years.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by summerblues on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:49 pm

So far so good. I thought they both looked quite nervous at the begining. After the first break, only Cilic continued to look nervous.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:50 pm

I think on most points you have to make the call straight away - it will greatly frustrate players and fans if it comes a second late - a second would feel like a lot. If it's literally to delay for a small fraction of a second on a serve or other fast shot it may make sense occassionally.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Guest on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:51 pm

Cilic not playing so well. I thought he would come out swinging.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by kemet on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:54 pm

Oh dear Marin...

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:54 pm

This is dire from Cilic, as I feared it would be. Such a letdown that the end of the tournament has been so one-sided.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Guest on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:55 pm

This is good for Federer - the old man. But Cilic seems tight / tense. Has he pulled a muscle or something or has the occasion got to him.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Scottrf on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:56 pm

No name Bertie wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Why don't the line judges delay calls until after the player has had the opportunity to play the shot?

Then you don't have to replay if they miss and the ball was actually in.
Because they have to react on their first impression.  If they all start delaying calls they will start making mistakes and will lose control of the match.  
Will forget their call 0.1 seconds later?
You want the opponent to hit the ball to continue the point - and then check to see if the ball was out later?  Why otherwise delay?
Delay so they can't say the call interfered with their shot if there's a challenge.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by kemet on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:56 pm

Oh boy, Cilic pulled up on that last point. As the commentators said, there could be a possible injury/cramping

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Born Slippy on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:57 pm

Looks like Cilic might retire?

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by kemet on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:58 pm

No name Bertie wrote:This is good for Federer - the old man.  But Cilic seems tight / tense.  Has he pulled a muscle or something or has the occasion got to him.


I think it is a combination of the occasion and a possible injury. Cilic is a MUCH better player than his performance today suggests

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Guest on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:59 pm

Scottrf wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Why don't the line judges delay calls until after the player has had the opportunity to play the shot?

Then you don't have to replay if they miss and the ball was actually in.
Because they have to react on their first impression.  If they all start delaying calls they will start making mistakes and will lose control of the match.  
Will forget their call 0.1 seconds later?
You want the opponent to hit the ball to continue the point - and then check to see if the ball was out later?  Why otherwise delay?
Delay so they can't say the call interfered with their shot if there's a challenge.
But it would have to be reviewed on the completion of the point - otherwise the point would have to be played again if it was not out - which was what you wanted to avoid. If it ended up being a long rally - there could be numerous "out calls" the line judges would have to delay until the completion of the point.


Last edited by No name Bertie on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 3:03 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 2:59 pm

kemet wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:This is good for Federer - the old man.  But Cilic seems tight / tense.  Has he pulled a muscle or something or has the occasion got to him.

I think it is a combination of the occasion and a possible injury. Cilic is a MUCH better player than his performance today suggests
Just not in the same class as Federer. Unfortunate for it to end this way though.
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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Henman Bill on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 3:02 pm

Well played! I think some of you are handing the trophy to Roger a little early, let's let the match play out. At least wait until say 2 sets and a break before calling it.

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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 3:07 pm

Henman Bill wrote:Well played! I think some of you are handing the trophy to Roger a little early, let's let the match play out. At least wait until say 2 sets and a break before calling it.
Some things in life are inevitable and this is one of them.
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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

Post by Guest on Sun 16 Jul 2017, 3:11 pm

I seem to recall that Murray was winning against Djokovic in a grand slam match - maybe a final.  Djokovic looked like he was injured.  Murray then seemed to assume Djokovic was injured.  Djokovic started playing well again and Murray's game then fell apart.  Murray later said he didn't know what was happening with Djokovic and it got into his head.  Can anyone remember this?

Ps it was Roland Garros 2015 Semi-Final - Djokovic looked injured took a long medical time out - Murray had come back from two sets down, but fell away in the last set: 3-6 3-6 7-5 7-5 1 - 6


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Re: Wimbledon - Days 12 and 13 (The singles finals)

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