The Rugby Championship - Buildup

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The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 10:23 am

First topic message reminder :

Seeing as there's only 3 matches left in Super Rugby, time to start thinking about TRC


Fixtures:

Day & Date Match Venue Match Official Kick Off (Local)
Week One
Saturday 19-Aug-17 Australia v New Zealand ANZ Stadium, Sydney Jerome Garces (FFR) 20:00
Saturday 19-Aug-17 South Africa v Argentina Nelson Mandela Bay Stadium, Port Elizabeth Romain Poite (FFR) 17.05
Week Two
Saturday 26-Aug-17 New Zealand v Australia Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin Wayne Barnes (RFU) 19.35
Saturday 26-Aug-17 Argentina v South Africa Estadio Padre Ernesto Marlearena, Salta Pascal Gauzere (FFR) 16.40
Week Three
Saturday 09-Sep-17 Yarrow Stadium, New Plymouth Yarrow Stadium, New Plymouth Angus Gardner (ARU) 19.35
Saturday 09-Sep-17 Australia v South Africa NIB Stadium, Perth Glen Jackson (NZR) 18.00
Week Four
Saturday 16-Sep-17 New Zealand v South Africa QBE Stadium, Albany Nigel Owens (WRU) 19.30
Saturday 16-Sep-17 Australia v Argentina Nib Stadium, Perth John Lacey (IRFU) 20:00
Week Five
Saturday 30-Sep-17 South Africa v Australia Toyota Stadium, Bloemfontein Ben O’Keeffe (NZR) 17.05
Saturday 30-Sep-17 Argentina v New Zealand Estadio Velez Sarsfield, Buenos Aires Jaco Peyper (SARU) 19.30
Week Six
Saturday 07-Oct-17 South Africa v New Zealand Newlands, Cape Town Jerome Garces (FFR) 17.05
Saturday 07-Oct-17 Argentina v Australia Estadio Malvinas Argentinas, Mendoza Mathieu Raynal (FFR) 19.30
Extra Bledisloe Cup
Saturday 21-Oct-17 Australia v New Zealand Suncorp Stadium, Brisbane Wayne Barnes (RFU) 19.00


The Australian squad are already in camp (except for their Brumbies' players), with all their Super Rugby commitments finished - Quade Cooper and Scott Higginbotham notable squad omissions, thought Quade may get a reprieve as Karmichael Hunt is out for the next 2 months

Wallabies Squad:

Wallabies Squad

http://www.superxv.com/cooper-higginbotham-dropped-wallabies-squad/
Extended national train-on squad, excluding Brumbies players

Forwards
Jermaine Ainsley*, Western Force
Adam Coleman, 12 Tests, Western Force
Pek Cowan, 10 Tests, Western Force
Jack Dempsey, 1 Test, NSW Waratahs
Kane Douglas, 31 Tests, Queensland Reds
Sef Fa’agase*, Queensland Reds
Tetera Faulkner, 2 Tests, Western Force
Ned Hanigan, 3 Tests, NSW Waratahs
Richard Hardwick, 2 Tests, Western Force
Michael Hooper, 68 Tests, NSW Waratahs
Sekope Kepu, 80 Tests, NSW Waratahs
Adam Korczyk*, Queensland Reds
Tolu Latu, 4 Tests, NSW Waratahs
Sean McMahon, 15 Tests, Melbourne Rebels
Stephen Moore (c), 120 Tests, Queensland Reds
Tatafu Polota-Nau, 71 Tests, Western Force
Tom Robertson, 9 Tests, NSW Waratahs
Izack Rodda*, Queensland Reds
Rob Simmons, 71 Tests, Queensland Reds
Lopeti Timani, 7 Tests, Melbourne Rebels
Taniela Tupou*, Queensland Reds
Jordan Uelese*, Melbourne Rebels

Backs
Kurtley Beale, 60 Tests, NSW Waratahs
Israel Folau, 55 Tests, NSW Waratahs
Bernard Foley, 45 Tests, NSW Waratahs
Will Genia, 78 Tests
Dane Haylett-Petty, 17 Tests, Western Force
Reece Hodge, 13 Tests, Melbourne Rebels
Karmichael Hunt, 3 Tests, Queensland Reds
Samu Kerevi, 8 Tests, Queensland Reds
Marika Koroibete*, Melbourne Rebels
Campbell Magnay*, Queensland Reds
Billy Meakes*, Western Force
Eto Nabuli, 1 Test, Queensland Reds
Sefa Naivalu, 7 Tests, Melbourne Rebels
Izaia Perese*, Queensland Reds
Nick Phipps, 52 Tests, NSW Waratahs
Curtis Rona*, Western Force
*denotes uncapped player
Players not considered due to injury
Kyle Godwin
Lukhan Tui
James Slipper

Read more: http://www.superxv.com/cooper-higginbotham-dropped-wallabies-squad/#ixzz4njtgTDL9


Last edited by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 10:24 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : formatting)
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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 11:56 am

ebop wrote:The sanctions are what they are. Don't have an opinion on that. 3 weeks, 4 weeks, 8 weeks....whatever, don't care. It just needs clarity about what 'weeks' and what 'matches' means. If it's clear cut then that's the way forward.

Michael Hooper fiddled the books like SBW but the rules allow it

http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/70761466/wallabies-flanker-michael-hooper-cleared-to-play-against-all-blacks-in-bledisloe-test

I agree with that. I think bans were originally handed out in weeks, until it was pointed out that some bans ended up being more (or less) severe than others as a consequence. Then matches were stipulated, but with unclear guidelines are which could qualify. World Rugby have known since the farce over Andrew Hore's ban that rules can be bent, so it's their fault the NZRU did this.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by ebop on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 2:20 pm

Yeah, it's their fault

-> World Rugby <-
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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 4:38 pm

ebop wrote:Yeah, it's their fault

-> World Rugby <-

yeah because the ABs never do anything wrong. Amazing how they always seem to be the victim.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by ebop on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 8:40 am

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
ebop wrote:Yeah, it's their fault

-> World Rugby <-

yeah because the ABs never do anything wrong. Amazing how they always seem to be the victim.
Guns, you're entering into gwlad levels of irrational bitterness OK
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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by emack2 on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 5:35 pm

Since Naholo left the field for a HIA and didn't return,and also missed the Third Test
under the protocol.Methinks your statement is somewhat flawed..

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by lostinwales on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 6:14 pm

These incidents are not judged on the hardness of the victim's heads

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 6:16 pm

lostinwales wrote:These incidents are not judged on the hardness of the victim's heads

clap Smile

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by ebop on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 10:19 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
lostinwales wrote:These incidents are not judged on the hardness of the victim's heads

clap Smile
Exactly. The incidents should be judged on whether a player's (eg SOB) forearm recklessly clobbers a players chin. The fact the player is then knocked out cold means he should have the book thrown at him. One rule for Irish players another for the rest. The Dublin (WR) effect??
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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by George Carlin on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 5:53 am

lostinwales wrote:These incidents are not judged on the hardness of the victim's heads
Reminds me of Justin Marshall's quip when TJ Perenara swung a punch at a lock forward during a Super Rugby match.

"Yes, he did hit him. But as he's a scrum half, we all know that it didn't hurt".
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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 3:35 pm

So you do believe ebop that the result of the challenge should be the main factor in deciding punishment?

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by lostinwales on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 4:50 pm

ebop wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
lostinwales wrote:These incidents are not judged on the hardness of the victim's heads

clap Smile
Exactly. The incidents should be judged on whether a player's (eg SOB) forearm recklessly clobbers a players chin. The fact the player is then knocked out cold means he should have the book thrown at him. One rule for Irish players another for the rest. The Dublin (WR) effect??

Unless I am very much mistaken he was cited. That means that the event was explored in detail. And they found him not guilty. Maybe he did just have a good lawyer or maybe they decided that one was an accident but that in the case of SBW he could have done a lot more to avoid injuring Watson.


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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by emack2 on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 7:29 pm

NO but less "holier than now comments"partisan comments as I feared a Card
decided the Super 18 final possibly.It`s time jumping in air to catch is banned
and waiting till it can be caught safely.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 08 Aug 2017, 11:05 am

emack2 wrote:Since Naholo left the field for a HIA and didn't return,and also missed the Third Test
under the protocol.Methinks your statement is somewhat flawed..

Naholo passed the HIA.

There was literally nothing wrong with him and could have played on:

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/sport/rugby/hes-woken-up-chipper-waisake-naholo-fine-after-concussion-scare-says-all-blacks-boss

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by ebop on Tue 08 Aug 2017, 11:20 am

Look at the end guns, Naholo was nighnighs

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 08 Aug 2017, 11:24 am

Tbf guns it's an automatic fail if he's unconcious he jusy passed a later test. Still nothing wrong with what sob did though.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by ebop on Tue 08 Aug 2017, 11:33 am

SOB's hit was an accident. And accidents happen on the field. Just like when Cane accidentally hit that irish bloke.
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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 08 Aug 2017, 11:41 am

Accidental doesn't mean it's not against the laws or not a red card etc though. Just the sob did nothing wrong. The argument at the time of cane was that new rulings had been brought in to say even accidental contact should be punished with a red. We'd seen examples where accidental was punished then wasn't. The interpretation now seems to be that if the player does slip etc some leniency is shown.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by ebop on Tue 08 Aug 2017, 11:47 am

Ok, we've finally got SOB and Cane on the same page. Both accidental incidents that affected the head. You recall the Irish were apoplectic with rage. Like 12 years of built up rage just spewed out like a volcano. But SOB can be swept under the carpet. I'm ok with that, it's just interesting to get the contrast.
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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by No 7&1/2 on Tue 08 Aug 2017, 11:51 am

I think I said at the time cane was a yellow for me. Certainly his and sbw aren't really comparable with sob s innocuous challenge that was rightly not punished.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 3:33 am

Jordie Barrett's season is over.

Jordie Barrett's rugby year looks to be over due to a shoulder injury which will almost certainly require surgery and put him out of the game for between four and six months.

It's a crushing blow for the 20-year-old Hurricanes fullback, who played two tests this year - most significantly starting the third against the British & Irish Lions at Eden Park where he scored a try in an excellent performance.

Barrett injured a shoulder in the Hurricanes' Super Rugby semifinal defeat by the Lions in Johannesburg. Further scans are needed but it appears as if ligaments need to be re-attached. If so, his next meaningful match will be during pre-season next January at the earliest.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11901759

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Scottrf on Thu 10 Aug 2017, 9:02 am

Isn't everyone else's season over too?

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by emack2 on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 3:29 pm

With the Squads being named some things are obvious both Aus and SA have
named home based players.How good SA are is a closed book but certainly
they are better than there current rating.
Australia despite poor Super series have some good players and are still
Worlds number 3 side,have 2 home Bledisloe tests.
Several matches have NH officials including Wayne Barnes,which may slow
things down.
NZ are giving players like Kaino,Read,Ben Smith,Owen Franks sabbaticals
to keep them fresh for2019.Notables missing from first squad are Julian
Savea and Matt Todd for first matches,no doubt they will be used as
injury cover.With Ben Smith and now Jordie Barrett ruled out a lot of
youngsters will get a chance.
IF the tournament is the usual fixtures for Nz ,Aus away,Aus home,Argentina
home,SA home,Argentina away,and finally SA at sea level this time.
It could indeed be over by the 4th game, but only a fool takes one years
results.As the same for the next year.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 12 Aug 2017, 5:25 pm

Aus are 4th. I assume you believe that should be sa. Their this time not there.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by emack2 on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 11:01 am

Ratings are irrelevant there was so much Rugby and so many freak results
to confuse the issue.It`s all a 50/50 chance and as recent results proved
and a card/penalties are as likely to change a result.
Coles will miss first Bledisloe,Milner-Skudder and Havili released to so
Mackenzie at 15,after second Bledisloe,Sopanga as back up for Barrett.
Crotty/ALNB starting SBW off the bench.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 11:08 am

Don't bring up ratings which were incorrect anyway then.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Biltong on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 11:51 am

Springbok squad

Forwards (19)
Eben Etzebeth, Steven Kitshoff, Siya Kolisi, Frans Malherbe, Bongi Mbonambi, Pieter-Steph du Toit (all Stormers), Tendai Mtawarira, Coenie Oosthuizen, Daniel du Preez, Jean-Luc du Preez, Chiliboy Ralepelle (all Sharks), Lizo Gqoboka, Lood de Jager, Trevor Nyakane (all Bulls), Jaco Kriel, Malcolm Marx, Franco Mostert (all Lions), Uzair Cassiem, Oupa Mohoje (both Cheetahs)

Backs (15)

Warrick Gelant, Jesse Kriel, Rudy Paige, Handre Pollard, Jan Serfontein (all Bulls), Andries Coetzee, Ross Cronje, Elton Jantjies, Courtnall Skosan (all Lions), Damian de Allende, Dillyn Leyds (both Stormers), Raymond Rhule, Francois Venter (both Cheetahs), Curwin Bosch (Sharks), Francois Hougaard (Worcester/ENG)

I wouldn't rate the Springboks chances very high, lots of off form players selected, some who on merit will never make the squad and the coach doesn't provide any confidence.
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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by George Carlin on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 2:48 pm

Biltong wrote:Springbok squad

Forwards (19)
Eben Etzebeth, Steven Kitshoff, Siya Kolisi, Frans Malherbe, Bongi Mbonambi, Pieter-Steph du Toit (all Stormers), Tendai Mtawarira, Coenie Oosthuizen, Daniel du Preez, Jean-Luc du Preez, Chiliboy Ralepelle (all Sharks), Lizo Gqoboka, Lood de Jager, Trevor Nyakane (all Bulls), Jaco Kriel, Malcolm Marx, Franco Mostert (all Lions), Uzair Cassiem, Oupa Mohoje (both Cheetahs)

Backs (15)

Warrick Gelant, Jesse Kriel, Rudy Paige, Handre Pollard, Jan Serfontein (all Bulls), Andries Coetzee, Ross Cronje, Elton Jantjies, Courtnall Skosan (all Lions), Damian de Allende, Dillyn Leyds (both Stormers), Raymond Rhule, Francois Venter (both Cheetahs), Curwin Bosch (Sharks), Francois Hougaard (Worcester/ENG)

I wouldn't rate the Springboks chances very high, lots of off form players selected, some who on merit will never make the squad and the coach doesn't provide any confidence.
Why so few from the Lions pack, Bilt?
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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by emack2 on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 4:26 pm

Last time looked at ratings Aus was 3 and SA 7 or 8 that was pre-Lions tour.
Wondered that myself George,Lions are the strongest SA side currently there
pack.
Was supposedly dominant in Set piece/breakdown areas,Crusaders showed that
not to be .To be absolutely true they shaded these areas even before the card
there were 9 or 10 Crusaders in AB squad in the forwards.
But you`d think they`d build there squad around the lions

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 13 Aug 2017, 5:09 pm

Yeah rankings change. And their squad.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 15 Aug 2017, 11:18 am

The Wallabies host New Zealand in Sydney on Saturday. Hard to find anyone who gives the home side a chance. The most optimistic scenario for Australia seems to be along the lines of "stranger things have happened".

It's almost a make-or-break situation, following the uproar over the decision to cut the Western Force. So much of the rugby over there seems invested in how well the national side is faring, so a poor series of Tests risks turning off a fanbase which already feels put-upon.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Tue 15 Aug 2017, 2:02 pm

I just hope the rugby championship isnt as much of a one horse race as last year. 19 point win was the ABs closest game and that was against Argentina away who realistically were never going to beat them.

SA and Aus were dreadful.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by emack2 on Tue 15 Aug 2017, 10:58 pm

Aus in Sydney there happy hunting ground,Wayne Barnes there favourite Ref.
Nz in disarray after Lions.Could be another 2015 result for NZ/

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 7:25 am

Their favourite.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 9:09 am

emack2 wrote:Aus in Sydney there happy hunting ground,Wayne Barnes there favourite Ref.
Nz in disarray after Lions.Could be another 2015 result for NZ/

I doubt it but you never know. I dont think NZ are in disarray really they just arent as good as people thought post the 2016 rugby championship. The reality was the competition was dreadful and made NZ look better than they were. As the November tours proved and the Lions tour some of the NH sides are better competition for the ABs now.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by chewed_mintie on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 2:32 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
emack2 wrote:Aus in Sydney there happy hunting ground,Wayne Barnes there favourite Ref.
Nz in disarray after Lions.Could be another 2015 result for NZ/

I doubt it but you never know. I dont think NZ are in disarray really they just arent as good as people thought post the 2016 rugby championship.

Agree on this - although it could be said NZ may have reached a 'peak' post RC 2016. But disarray? The last time I wa genuinely shocked by some weaknesses in our side would have been around 2004.

Let's remember some key things about the Lions series, we blooded quite a lot of players and were forced into making some selections where our best players were not available. Not sure Aus/SA could follow suit against that Lions side and still come out with the expectation that they should have won the series. Not excuse-making but to me the best thing about that drawn series is that we've found some good alternatives in several key positions. Codie Taylor was good, Riccitelli will be interesting to watch when he comes on and then there is the exciting prospect of Aumua at hooker maybe in the autumn. So at hooker we may have 5 different options - 6 including Coltman and Harris. The back division in the Lions series was like a revolving door but we blooded Ioane, Barrett, Laumape who all look like they can add to, rather than make up the numbers. we have ample choice in the back three area. Crotty has developed into our glue backline player and B Barrett is only going to get better with time.

I'm genuinely excited by this team but I tend to agree that it appears that some of our harder matches now fall at the end of our season, rather than the middle. AB's v SA still the pinnacle for me though.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 3:20 pm

ABs probably think SA is still the pinnacle because for many many years SA was the best team in the world and NZ couldn't beat them. There was a 10 year period in the 40s when NZ couldnt beat them at all. So desperate were NZ to win that they put former Heavy weight boxing champion Kevin Skinner in the front row to face SA. He admitted to punching all SA front rows at least once in the face (some things never change).

Since then although NZ have reversed the dominance SA have won their fair share of key games. However, not withstanding all of that they definitely are not your biggest rival at the moment. A record 15 – 57 win for New Zealand in Durban in last years rugby championship surely confirms that. In fact this was easily the biggest thrashing NZ put on any top tier team in 2016.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by chewed_mintie on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 3:48 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:ABs probably think SA is still the pinnacle because for many many years SA was the best team in the world and NZ couldn't beat them. There was a 10 year period in the 40s when NZ couldnt beat them at all. So desperate were NZ to win that they put former Heavy weight boxing champion Kevin Skinner in the front row to face SA. He admitted to punching all SA front rows at least once in the face (some things never change).

Since then although NZ have reversed the dominance SA have won their fair share of key games. However, not withstanding all of that they definitely are not your biggest rival at the moment. A record 15 – 57 win for New Zealand in Durban in last years rugby championship surely confirms that. In fact this was easily the biggest thrashing NZ put on any top tier team in 2016.

Thanks for the fairly inaccurate history lesson.....

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 4:00 pm

chewed_mintie wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:ABs probably think SA is still the pinnacle because for many many years SA was the best team in the world and NZ couldn't beat them. There was a 10 year period in the 40s when NZ couldnt beat them at all. So desperate were NZ to win that they put former Heavy weight boxing champion Kevin Skinner in the front row to face SA. He admitted to punching all SA front rows at least once in the face (some things never change).

Since then although NZ have reversed the dominance SA have won their fair share of key games. However, not withstanding all of that they definitely are not your biggest rival at the moment. A record 15 – 57 win for New Zealand in Durban in last years rugby championship surely confirms that. In fact this was easily the biggest thrashing NZ put on any top tier team in 2016.

Thanks for the fairly inaccurate history lesson.....

You are the Kiwi, which bit dont you agree with?

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Scottrf on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 4:05 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
chewed_mintie wrote:
GunsGermsV2 wrote:ABs probably think SA is still the pinnacle because for many many years SA was the best team in the world and NZ couldn't beat them. There was a 10 year period in the 40s when NZ couldnt beat them at all. So desperate were NZ to win that they put former Heavy weight boxing champion Kevin Skinner in the front row to face SA. He admitted to punching all SA front rows at least once in the face (some things never change).

Since then although NZ have reversed the dominance SA have won their fair share of key games. However, not withstanding all of that they definitely are not your biggest rival at the moment. A record 15 – 57 win for New Zealand in Durban in last years rugby championship surely confirms that. In fact this was easily the biggest thrashing NZ put on any top tier team in 2016.

Thanks for the fairly inaccurate history lesson.....

You are the Kiwi, which bit dont you agree with?
Your 10 year period in the 40s was one tour in SA? Including one day where NZ had to play two tests, and the ABs apparently not being allowed to play Maori players because of apartheid.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 4:14 pm

No from 1937 to 1949 there were 6 games 2 in NZ, followed by four in SA. Up until the last game NZ had just won 4 from 14 games ever v SA.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Scottrf on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 4:15 pm

Fair enough. Was unaware that 1937 was in the 40s, my bad.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by chewed_mintie on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 4:16 pm

If you think Kevin Skinner was the only one throwing punches then that is a joke in itself.  Quote from first test courtesy of Spiro Zavos This was the hardest game of rugby I’d ever seen. Players indulged in fist fights from the first scrum. In one memorable set-to, Dixon and Johnstone had a personal duel, oblivious to the play that carried on further down the paddock.

Also A number of incidences got an elaborated amount of post-match media attention notably an incident where Ian Kirkpatrick (South African) ‘kicked’ Tiny White while the latter was lying on the ground.

The reason we didn't beat them for 10 years (1940's) - hard to think of an excuse for that.......oh yes, just a small issue about a world war.  NZ beat SA in many home series bar 1937 so we could beat them.  SA beat us in many home series bar 1996.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 4:18 pm

chewed_mintie wrote:If you think Kevin Skinner was the only one throwing punches then that is a joke in itself.  Quote from first test courtesy of Spiro Zavos This was the hardest game of rugby I’d ever seen. Players indulged in fist fights from the first scrum. In one memorable set-to, Dixon and Johnstone had a personal duel, oblivious to the play that carried on further down the paddock.

Also A number of incidences got an elaborated amount of post-match media attention notably an incident where Ian Kirkpatrick (South African) ‘kicked’ Tiny White while the latter was lying on the ground.

The reason we didn't beat them for 10 years (1940's) - hard to think of an excuse for that.......oh yes, just a small issue about a world war.  NZ beat SA in many home series bar 1937 so we could beat them.  SA beat us in many home series bar 1996.

No I never said that, no need to be over sensitive.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by chewed_mintie on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 4:26 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:
chewed_mintie wrote:If you think Kevin Skinner was the only one throwing punches then that is a joke in itself.  Quote from first test courtesy of Spiro Zavos This was the hardest game of rugby I’d ever seen. Players indulged in fist fights from the first scrum. In one memorable set-to, Dixon and Johnstone had a personal duel, oblivious to the play that carried on further down the paddock.

Also A number of incidences got an elaborated amount of post-match media attention notably an incident where Ian Kirkpatrick (South African) ‘kicked’ Tiny White while the latter was lying on the ground.

The reason we didn't beat them for 10 years (1940's) - hard to think of an excuse for that.......oh yes, just a small issue about a world war.  NZ beat SA in many home series bar 1937 so we could beat them.  SA beat us in many home series bar 1996.

No I never said that, no need to be over sensitive.

So there was no point to what you said about him.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 4:29 pm

The point is they brought him in (a heavy weight boxer) because the SA front row had been beating up NZ in previous games and they wanted to fight fire with fire. Is that not how the story goes?

Did you get out of the wrong side of bed today? You tell me why you still consider SA the pinnacle then?

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by chewed_mintie on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 4:35 pm

He was also the sole survivor of the 1949 campaign and a decent rugby player to boot.

I consider SA the pinnacle because since the start of international rugby they have always been our hardest opponents. The professional age has seen us dominate but our we play our best and rise to the occasion more when confronted with the South Africans. They bring out our best because of the challenge they can bring. 2016 was a blip. You don't judge a rugby team on one year.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 4:39 pm

chewed_mintie wrote:He was also the sole survivor of the 1949 campaign and a decent rugby player to boot.

I consider SA the pinnacle because since the start of international rugby they have always been our hardest opponents.  The professional age has seen us dominate but our we play our best and rise to the occasion more when confronted with the South Africans.  They bring out our best because of the challenge they can bring.  2016 was a blip.  You don't judge a rugby team on one year.

Not sure that was that much different from what I said. Anyway you are only as good as your last game and SA still aren't firing on all cylinders albeit they do seem to be improving. I doubt they will get hammered by as much this time but cant see them coming close to NZ. Finishing 2nd in the championship will be a good result for them.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by emack2 on Wed 16 Aug 2017, 8:59 pm

Your potted history is some what skewed,From 1921-28,SAv Nz was equal 3 wins
each.In period 1935-7 after beating the 1930`s Lions,the 2-3-2 was banned by
the NH dominated IRB.
They adopted the Bok 3-4-1 without learning it`s secrets,effectively the AB`s
had no Scrum.They lost to England and Wales,and in 1937 1-2 to the Boks
winning the First with 14 men[Trevathans test] then losing the next 2.Cobner
the injured man hobbled onto the field to congratulate his teammates win,
selectors saw he could walk and vowed he`d never be an AB again.He did
the decent thing died fighting Rommel in the Western Desert.
In 1949 the Series was decided by Goal kicking or in NZ`s lack off,despite
having to leave many of there best players at home.The AB`s were a strong
side ,injuries to key players hampered them.On the instigation of Johnnie
Simpson ,Bo Wintle and Danie Craven taught them the secrets of the 3-4-1
Scrum and the Bok Hook.By the end of the tour they were better than the
Boks.
The AB Front row Johhnie Simpson,Has Catley,and Kevin Skinner[the then
youngest AB picked]were subjected.TO illegal scrummaging methods by
Chris Koch and Jappie Bekker,in 1956.These same methods had injured
two AB props out of the series.
Kevin Skinner was recalled to combat these methods and fought fire with
fire.
Skinner was one of the greatest props in the history of the game and an
automatic choice.
From 1956 on until 1996 the tests went to the home side NZ finally reaching
and overtaking SA 4-1,3 of those 4 in SA.From 1992 to 1995 the played 5
games SA won 1and drew 1,losing 3 .

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Gwlad on Thu 17 Aug 2017, 3:27 am

Aaron Smith bringing yet more shame to the NZ team, its been shocking year for NZ rugby.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

Post by Rugby Fan on Thu 17 Aug 2017, 4:05 am

15-Damian McKenzie
14-Ben Smith
13-Ryan Crotty
12-Sonny Bill Williams
11-Rieko Ioane
10-Beauden Barrett
9-Aaron Smith

8-Kieran Read (captain)
7-Sam Cane
6-Liam Squire
5-Sam Whitelock
4-Brodie Retallick
3-Owen Franks
2-Codie Taylor
1-Joe Moody

Replacements: 16-Nathan Harris, 17-Wyatt Crockett,18-Ofa Tu’ungafasi, 19-Luke Romano, 20-Ardie Savea, 21-TJ Perenara, 22-Lima Sopoaga, 23-Anton Lienert-Brown

Some surprises in the All Black selection. NZ Herald says McKenzie coming in at full back, with Ben Smith moving to the wing, is long-term planning, given Jordie Barrett is now out for the season, and Smith goes on sabbatical soon. Still, not many predicted it for this match, and the Herald's own podcast said it would be a risk, given that McKenzie gives a lot away in height against Folau.

Hints that Kaino being dropped from the squad entirely is because he has picked up yellow cards for tackling too high. Other suggestions he's getting a kick up the backside rather than written out of World Cup planning.

Dane Coles is out after picking up a head knock, which must be a real concern for the future. Aaron Smith will play despite lurid headlines showing that he tried to get the girl in that notorious incident to lie about what happened.

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Re: The Rugby Championship - Buildup

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