The March of the 30-somethings

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The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 10:24 am

Isner's win at Newport yesterday and David (Duracell Bunny) Ferrer's victory at at Bastad were yet more triumphs for players aged 30 or more this season. My rough maths says these wins took to 21 the number of titles in 2017 captured by those in their fourth decade. We're surely on for a record "oldie" season.
    But for those looking to the future there was an encouraging teen win yesterday by 19-yr-old Russian Andrey Rublev who took the Umag title as a lucky loser. It was, apparently, the first tournament win by an LL since 2009.
We got used to teenage wins when Rafa, Djoko and Andy M were in their pre-20s. But from 2008 to 2016 not one teenager even reached a final, until Zverev bucked the trend.
   I see that another youngster, 18-year-old Canadian Denis Shapovalov won a Challenger tournament yesterday. He's certainly one to watch (I nearly said "keep an eye on" but as he accidentally whacked the umpire in the face in that DC match, it would have been an unfortunate turn of phrase).
   All this seems to suggest that a gap, may be even a yawning gap, is developing between the golden oldies (and we could include Murray and Djoko in this group now) and the up-and-comings, with the likes of Nishi and Raonic the nearly men in between.   
   Will the 30-somethings continue their near-sweep of the major titles? And who's best placed to stop them?

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Guest82 on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 11:05 am

If I had to guess I would say one of the big five (I'm including Stan) will win the USO.

Best placed to stop them at the moment would seem Cilic or (if fit) Del Potro.

I think Zverev and Kyrgios are a couple of years away from winning slams. Thiem is probably a good shout at RG, but only when Rafa isn't there and Djokovic doesn't return to his form.

I guess a Nishikori or a Raonic may pick up a slam or two if the big five fall away and Zverev or Kyrgios etc are not quite ready. Seems like they might have a small window...which is getting smaller all the time.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Guest on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 11:17 am

sirfredperry wrote:... but as he accidentally whacked the umpire in the face in that DC match ...
Not accidental. He wilfully and irresponsibly whacked the ball in the direction of the umpire / crowd without a single consideration of the potential consequences. If someone fires a loaded gun at a crowd because they were angry with themselves or with a situation - would that be labelled as an accident?

Apart from that quibble - I thought your post was great (hence the upvote).

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 11:44 am

NNB. Gosh, I only put the word accidentally in as I didn't think he'd done it deliberately. Yes, it was reckless. But did he REALLY want to hit the umpire? 
   Anyway, when he's not whacking balls out of the court, Shapovalov is pretty good at whacking them in the court. And thanks for the upvote.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by reckoner on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 1:04 pm

It was accidental and Shapovalov was in tears after it happened. He was frustrated after a point and looked to be launching a ball into the crowd, but accidentally hit the court umpire. Judge for yourself:


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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Guest on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 2:08 pm

Like I said it was accidental in the sense of firing a gun into a crowd and the bullet accidentally hitting somebody. We are going to agree to disagree on this one.  But that is fine.  I am not saying my opinion is correct.  He could have hit an elderly lady in the face with it.  Sure he is remorseful but remorse is not going to return the vision to a blinded old lady.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by reckoner on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 2:17 pm

The guy's like 17, so yeah let's agree to disagree.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 10:29 am

Concerning the Ferrer win at the weekend. The player said if he could keep this sort of form up he would definitely play next year. The title took his ranking up to a point where he could well be, once again, among the seeds at the USO.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by reckoner on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 10:38 am

Good on Ferrer, he seems like a decent chap. Boring style of play though :/

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 5:37 pm

Tommy Haas - now 39 - lost today in Hamburg. Probably going to be his last match in his native Germany. He's managed only six wins on the tour this year but one was against Fed !

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by lags72 on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 9:19 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Tommy Haas - now 39 - lost today in Hamburg. Probably going to be his last match in his native Germany. He's managed only six wins on the tour this year but one was against Fed !

Yes, a bit wacky, wasn't it !

The Swiss Maestro losing to his 39 year old mate - and on grass, supposedly his best surface. No wonder Fed then went on to have a disastrous Wimbledon.

Oh ......... wait ..... hang on a minute ........ Cool

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Wed 26 Jul 2017, 8:57 am

Lady Perry wondered whether Rog let Haas win in Stuttgart. But I'm sure he didn't, although he was doubtless pleased for his old friend.
   Another 30-something - Baggy - lost to Kyle Edmund yesterday. Baggy has slipped to 75 in the rankings.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by dummy_half on Wed 26 Jul 2017, 9:16 am

On the other thread I listed currently active GS and MS winners on the ATP. Of the 7 active GS champions, Fed, Djoko, Murray, Rafa and Stan (with over 50 slam titles between them) are over 30 and Cilic and Del Potro (as one-off winners each) are approaching 29.

Other MS title winners: Tsonga, Ferrer Berdych are over 30, and Zverev is just 20.

Really shows how much the generation between, as led by Nishi and Raonic, has failed to deliver the big results.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Guest82 on Wed 26 Jul 2017, 9:26 am

lags72 wrote:
sirfredperry wrote:Tommy Haas - now 39 - lost today in Hamburg. Probably going to be his last match in his native Germany. He's managed only six wins on the tour this year but one was against Fed !

Yes, a bit wacky, wasn't it !

The Swiss Maestro losing to his 39 year old mate - and on grass, supposedly his best surface. No wonder Fed then went on to have a disastrous Wimbledon.

Oh ......... wait ..... hang on a minute ........ Cool


Feds two losses this year - Donskoy and Haas. He's tanked them both.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by lags72 on Wed 26 Jul 2017, 11:22 am

Guest82 wrote:
lags72 wrote:
sirfredperry wrote:Tommy Haas - now 39 - lost today in Hamburg. Probably going to be his last match in his native Germany. He's managed only six wins on the tour this year but one was against Fed !

Yes, a bit wacky, wasn't it !

The Swiss Maestro losing to his 39 year old mate - and on grass, supposedly his best surface. No wonder Fed then went on to have a disastrous Wimbledon.

Oh ......... wait ..... hang on a minute ........ Cool


Feds two losses this year - Donskoy and Haas.  He's tanked them both.

Not sure there's clear evidence of tanking as such.

But what does seem pretty clear to me is that the guy lacks application, doesn't train nearly hard enough, takes far too much time off, joking around with the kids at home - when he should be putting in a full shift on the court.

I've heard people say ..... 'Yeah, but give some credit ..... every time he's played a Slam or a Masters this year, he's always won them"

Hmm ..... that may be true - but the fact remains he's lazy when it comes to the really big tourneys like Stuttgart and Dubai.

All the signs of a workshy fop if you ask me ......... Wink

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by barrystar on Wed 26 Jul 2017, 3:54 pm

Guest82 wrote:
lags72 wrote:
sirfredperry wrote:Tommy Haas - now 39 - lost today in Hamburg. Probably going to be his last match in his native Germany. He's managed only six wins on the tour this year but one was against Fed !

Yes, a bit wacky, wasn't it !

The Swiss Maestro losing to his 39 year old mate - and on grass, supposedly his best surface. No wonder Fed then went on to have a disastrous Wimbledon.

Oh ......... wait ..... hang on a minute ........ Cool


Feds two losses this year - Donskoy and Haas.  He's tanked them both.

I wouldn't think so, both went to three sets and both involved tie-breakers. I'd think it is more a question that he came into each match with a certain degree of match-grade-readiness which was not enough to get him through an opponent playing v. well. In each case the tournament was the first in a projected run of three over the forthcoming weeks, so was not his key target.
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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Henman Bill on Wed 26 Jul 2017, 9:39 pm

I don't think he tanked against Haas because you would rather not go to travel to a tournament, get on a flight, book into a hotel, and so on, just to play one match for 2 hours. 2 or 3 matches would have suited him better so I would be more suspicious had he lost in his second or third match.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by banbrotam on Thu 27 Jul 2017, 8:08 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Like I said it was accidental in the sense of firing a gun into a crowd and the bullet accidentally hitting somebody. We are going to agree to disagree on this one.  But that is fine.  I am not saying my opinion is correct.  He could have hit an elderly lady in the face with it.  Sure he is remorseful but remorse is not going to return the vision to a blinded old lady.

Wow! Hope no one I care about does your family any har,

The youngster, couldnt have shown more contrition even if he'd gone to confession. Can't you move on? Both Nole and Murray in the past couple of years came within literally a whisker of the same offence

See below, Murray's near miss. Which resulted in the best ever 'death stare' from the excellent an no nonsense UmpireDumusois

http://www.tennisnow.com/Blogs/NET-POSTS/August-2016-(1)/Watch-Umpire-Dumusois-Gives-Andy-Murray-Death-sta.aspx

Clearly Murray should have been constantly reminded that he's a bad boy for nearly hitting an old lady as well

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Guest on Thu 27 Jul 2017, 9:13 pm

It is like no one understands the use of words anymore.  Has society changed so much that 17 year olds are given free reign to smash and fracture peoples eye sockets.  So banbrotam if it was your elderly mother paying to watch a tennis match, during which a 17 year old professional fires a tennis ball into the crowd which smashes into your mothers face and blinds her - you would say to your mother and everyone else - it was an accident - move on mum and stop with your fecking whining.  Don't say he was reckless.  Don't say he was irresponsible.  Say "it" was an accident and lets all fecking move on.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by reckoner on Thu 27 Jul 2017, 9:43 pm

A freak accident doesn't mean we should condemn people. Intent matters.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Guest on Thu 27 Jul 2017, 10:40 pm

"Freak accident" - what a bunch of apologists we have.  Labelling something reckless and irresponsible is not "condemnation" - it is a proper use of English.  I suspect all the apologists are men - three men.  I wonder what the consensus would be for women. I am not liking the culture of thought on this thread.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by banbrotam on Thu 27 Jul 2017, 11:58 pm

No name Bertie wrote:"Freak accident" - what a bunch of apologists we have.  Labelling something reckless and irresponsible is not "condemnation" - it is a proper use of English.  I suspect all the apologists are men - three men.  I wonder what the consensus would be for women.  I am not liking the culture of thought on this thread.

Where on earth are you going with this? Let's go totally OTT and imagine if it was a gay irish black woman. So frigging what!! This was an incident, where the offender got punished. Why do we have to imagine if it was worse? Fact is the ball speed would have been significantly less, had it reached the crowd. Maybe your old lady would have caught it

You appear to have no room for someone to show contrition

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by lags72 on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 12:49 am

NNB : I'm beginning to think you've lost all sense of reason & perspective on this one.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by reckoner on Fri 28 Jul 2017, 12:58 am

How can anyone equate whacking a tennis ball into the crowd to shooting a gun?

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 29 Jul 2017, 12:08 pm

As for the younger guard, a good win for Kyle Edmund over top-seeded Jack Sock in Atlanta. Kyle thru to only his second tour semi and will have a chance against Ryan Harrison.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 8:39 am

At least one (Mayer v Mayer in Hamburg) ) possibly two (Isner at Atlanta) and even three (Fognini at Gstaad) more 30-something title winners this weekend.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Belovedluckyboy on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 12:41 pm

Foggy wins!

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Sun 30 Jul 2017, 2:19 pm

Belovedluckyboy wrote:Foggy wins!
Gosh. Caught me by surprise. What time did they start? At breakfast time? Well, that means at least two more 30-something titleists (spelling?) today.

Later: From age to youth, I've just been watching on YouTube a youngster called Felix Auger-Aliassime a 16-year-old Canadian who has just become the 7th youngest guy to win a Challenger. Could be one to watch out for.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 8:32 am

Well. We got all three tournaments providing a 30-something winner, although Isner had to ward off set points in his 7-6. 7-6 win over Harrison. The Bryans, who are nearer 40 than 30, took the doubles title in Atlanta.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Guest82 on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 2:08 pm

sirfredperry wrote:
Belovedluckyboy wrote:Foggy wins!
Gosh. Caught me by surprise. What time did they start? At breakfast time? Well, that means at least two more 30-something titleists (spelling?) today.

Later: From age to youth, I've just been watching on YouTube a youngster called Felix Auger-Aliassime a 16-year-old Canadian who has just become the 7th youngest guy to win a Challenger. Could be one to watch out for.

FAA has been touted for quite a while. I think the last 16 year old to win a Challenger was Rafa...he's done okay for himself since.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Nadalnation on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 8:56 pm

Yes. FAA has been talked about since he was 14. Definitely one to watch.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by dummy_half on Mon 31 Jul 2017, 10:36 pm

sirfredperry wrote:...

Later: From age to youth, I've just been watching on YouTube a youngster called Felix Auger-Aliassime a 16-year-old Canadian who has just become the 7th youngest guy to win a Challenger. Could be one to watch out for.

Just for completeness, the youngest players to win Challenger level events are:
1 - Michael Chang
2 - Richard Gasquet
3 - Bernie Tomic
4 - Kent Carlsson
5 - Marcos Ondruska
6 - Rafa Nadal
7 - Novak Djokovic
8 - Paul Dogger
9 - JMDP
10 - Horacio De La Pena

So a mixed bag - 4 slam winners, a couple who have had very good careers, a couple of journeymen and a guy who disappeared without trace (Dogger)

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 9:20 am

One 30-something having a tough time of it is 38-year-old Ivo Karlovic. Lost yesterday to 20-year-old Frenchman Quentin Halys 7-6 7-6. Think I'm right in saying that that's the second match running where big Ivo has lost without dropping serve.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Guest82 on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 9:28 am

sirfredperry wrote:One 30-something having a tough time of it is 38-year-old Ivo Karlovic. Lost yesterday to 20-year-old Frenchman Quentin Halys 7-6 7-6. Think I'm right in saying that that's the second match running where big Ivo has lost without dropping serve.

I always think his matches are something of a lottery. Never a massive surprise as a few points either way generally swings it.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by lags72 on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 6:04 pm

Reports circulating that Stan The Man - very definitely a successful member of the 30-something group - has withdrawn from scheduled appearances at Rogers Cup and Cincy, due to knee trouble.

His ability to compete at USO as defending Champ must surely be in some doubt........ Crying or Very sad

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 6:15 pm

lags72 wrote:Reports circulating that Stan The Man - very definitely a successful member of the 30-something group - has withdrawn from scheduled appearances at Rogers Cup and Cincy, due to knee trouble.

His ability to compete at USO as defending Champ must surely be in some doubt........ Crying or Very sad
If this is the case, it's a big blow for the tournaments which will already be without Djoko. Could be that The Man is ensuring that he's OK for the USO.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 6:17 pm

This from ESPN: Stan Wawrinka's tuneup for the US Open will have to wait at least two weeks, as the world No. 4 announced Wednesday he is pulling out of the Rogers Cup and the Western & Southern Open with a knee injury.
Wawrinka has not won a match since reaching the French Open final in early June. The three-match skid includes a stunning opening-round loss against Daniil Medvedev at Wimbledon.
"After much backwards and forwards and consultations with my doctors and my team, unfortunately I have decided to skip Canada and Cincinnati to be on the safe side, even though I've been battling hard to make these events," Wawrinka said in a statement released through his management company.
"Hugely disappointing for my fans and myself that I have to make this decision, but I need to be 100 percent confident before I resume competition till the injury that plagued me in Wimbledon has been resolved. My team and I are doing everything possible to make this a speedy recovery."
Wawrinka has historically thrived during the summer swing, most notably at the US Open, where was won the title a year ago. Wawrinka has not fallen before the quarterfinals of New York in the past four seasons.
"Stan has always been loyal to our tournament and we're obviously disappointed he won't be here this year," Rogers Cup director Eugène Lapierre said in a statement. "Stan is one of the best players in the world and we wish him a quick recovery and best of luck for the rest of the season."
The Rogers Cup will begin Aug. 7, followed by the Western & Southern Open in Cincinnati on Aug. 13.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by lags72 on Wed 02 Aug 2017, 7:15 pm

Stan would clearly be missed at USO - all the more so as reigning Champ of course.

But with more & more players pushing their bodies as they stay on Tour beyond the age at which most guys had retired in past generations, we can hardly be surprised to see them succumbing to injury.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 8:13 am

Fognini going well in Kitzbuhel. Back-to-back titles?

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 04 Aug 2017, 5:25 pm

Fognini beaten by....another 30-something (Kohlschreiber) !

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by summerblues on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 1:32 am

30-somethings are winning a lot of tournaments but they are also seemingly starting to be falling apart.  Nole and Stan - unless they have learnt what made Fed so good after his return and are planning to emulate it - are gone for the rest of the year and who knows in what shape they will come back.  Andy also seems to be so-so at best.

If somehow Fed and Nadal also ran into health issues (I know, not looking likely now, but who knows with their ages and their health history) we could end up with a new No1 much sooner than we are currently expecting.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 8:35 am

One 30-something not making a final is Berdych, beaten in what was a good win for returning-from-injury Kokkinakis at Los Cabos.
   S'Blues: A new number one would be the first time in 14 years (presuming it's next year) that anyone outside the Big 4 was at the top of the rankings. Alas for the younger players, no sooner do two of the Big 4 succumb to injuries than the other two spring into life again!

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by sirfredperry on Sat 05 Aug 2017, 9:15 pm

Kohlschreiber strikes another blow for the fourth-decade club by taking the Kitzbuhel title, while Anderson (31) is thru to the final in Washington.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by reckoner on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 9:32 pm

sirfredperry wrote:A new number one would be the first time in 14 years (presuming it's next year) that anyone outside the Big 4 was at the top of the rankings.

That's such a ridiculous stat. Has it ever happened before, I wonder? Talented as they are I can't help but give some credence to the theory that the recent homogenisation of surfaces has made this possible.

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by Calder106 on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 10:35 pm

reckoner wrote:
sirfredperry wrote:A new number one would be the first time in 14 years (presuming it's next year) that anyone outside the Big 4 was at the top of the rankings.

That's such a ridiculous stat. Has it ever happened before, I wonder? Talented as they are I can't help but give some credence to the theory that the recent homogenisation of surfaces has made this possible.

Why would you think that. Surely all these younger players who have been brought up on 'homogenised' surfaces would  have the same advantage if they were good enough. Federer could be number 1 this year while not playing on clay. Nadal could be number 1 while not doing much on grass.


Last edited by Calder106 on Mon 07 Aug 2017, 9:08 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Missed word)

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Re: The March of the 30-somethings

Post by reckoner on Sun 06 Aug 2017, 11:30 pm

I did say "some credence", I'm not really convinced by that school of thought. But yes, good points @Calder106.

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