Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

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Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by reckoner on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 2:23 pm

Tomic gave a revealing interview to Australian TV yesterday, talking about his relationship with tennis after that "I was bored out there" comment after getting knocked out of Wimbledon.


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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by reckoner on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 2:49 pm

Jut finished watching it. He says:

- he is "trapped" playing tennis
- he doesn't love the game but likes it
- he'll continue to play, but treat it like a job
- he's got loads of money and achieved a lot for age 24
- he's not superhuman like Federer
- he'll be happy if he wins a slam or two
- Pat Rafter isn't nice behind closed doors

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by lags72 on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 4:23 pm

It began with a certain amount of promise - but ultimately I don't believe there is much new or particularly interesting to be learnt about him from this (even though the interviewer did as good a job as possible, given the nature of the personality involved .....)

I think the underlying problem is that there is no hint of regret or humility about some of the arrogant comments made in the past..... no evidence of intent to learn from past mistakes.

I have no issue with someone saying that they don't 'love' tennis. But it's more complicated when you've decided to make it your career. Tomic says he will continue to play - not because it's his passion but simply 'as a job'. I just can't see this working for long. He is currently ranked in the 70's, and on recent evidence is more likely to drop down further than to move upwards.

He could very quickly reach the point where he is no longer guaranteed automatic entry to the Masters and Slams. Then it becomes a vicious circle where the motivation continues on a downward spiral. The prize money falls away, and sponsorship dries up. He's keen to boast how much money he has already made. He'd be well advised to look after what he's got - because at only 24 I suspect it's going to have to last him a long time.

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by Guest on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 5:17 pm

I like his honesty.  I prefer honest people to dishonest people.  The media obviously love him as he is someone they can demonise and generate a lot of money from with endless stories about him.  We are living in a world of back stabbing political correctness.

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by lags72 on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 5:54 pm

I think he has to decide whether he really wants to continue to train and play on the Tour as a true professional - and that also means putting in a proper effort EVERY time he walks onto court. He could of course stay at home, ride around in his cars, or go to the beach instead.

As for his 'honesty' - I'm really not sure just how honest it is to turn up at Wimbledon (where so many aspiring players are desperate to compete), to take the money, and then - when asked why his effort was so noticeably mediocre - say it's because I'm bored.

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by reckoner on Mon 24 Jul 2017, 10:53 pm

He said he didn't regret saying "Just go back dreaming about your dream car or house while I go buy them." - I don't care how poor he was growing up that is an inexcusable, contemptuous attitude.

I also agree that playing tennis as a job is incompatible with winning slams. Really pathetic.

Having said that, it seems tennis Australia are in the business of producing heels at the moment - Kyrgios seems to be going for a similar "bad boy" appeal. Like it or not it's a lucrative marketing niche and Tomic will probably coin it in (as long as he doesn't drop like a stone in the rankings).

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 7:29 am

lags72 wrote:
As for his 'honesty' - I'm really not sure just how honest it is to turn up at Wimbledon (where so many aspiring players are desperate to compete), to take the money, and then - when asked why his effort was so noticeably mediocre - say it's because I'm bored.

It is also a thought-provoking and dangerous thing to say at a time when it has just been announced that three matches at Wimbledon were under scrutiny for match-fixing.


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by beshocked on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 9:22 am

Ultimately I think we all want sportsmen and women to give their all whether they win or lose.

Sometimes the opposition is just too good - e.g. Berdych vs Federer but when players effectively don't try it's not good for the sport.

If Tomic isn't going to try, he should be barred from tournaments.


Clearly what Tomic needs is a sports psychologist who can burst the ego.

This is a young man who has got rich relatively quickly and thinks he's god's gift to the world.


There's a difference between being honest and tactless.

Saying you are bored is showing contempt for the fans turning up and for the opposition.

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by reckoner on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 10:01 am

It's also about what's expected in tennis. There's an air of gentility required from tennis players that doesn't apply in e.g. boxing. Would anyone think twice if Floyd Mayweather said stuff like this?

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by barrystar on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 10:25 am

I think that he fundamentally fails to understand that professional tennis is an offshoot of the entertainment industry.  It really is no more significant than that outside the cloistered world of tennis.  Those people who fund professional tennis by spectating live or watching on TV want to escape a little from the daily grind of their lives and they want to buy into what is happening.  Since sports are supposed to be competitive, and the enjoyment is gained from watching competition, the watchers want to believe that is what they are seeing to justify giving up their time on tennis, rather than something else.  Hence the fact that match-fixing, PED's, or other forms of cheating are so toxic to the value of any sport since they undermine it comprehensively as a spectacle.

Tomic may think he's being honest - he is in a way - but he is also biting the hand that feeds him (and, more importantly others).  He is no different to a lawyer telling the client that the client's case bores him, or a nurse saying that they want the patient to hurry up and die or get better because they want to be somewhere else, or a politician telling the voters to stop butting in with their concerns since they bore him and he knows how to run the country best.  The ATP has to do something because what Tomic is doing so fundamentally undermines the essence of the activity in the minds of those who fund it by giving up their time and money to follow it.  If it were only Tomic who suffered, then less of a deal, but the clients he is telling that he disrespects are not just his clients, and the risk of their disaffection may be felt by the ATP (WTA/ITF) as a whole.
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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by reckoner on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 10:37 am

So how come it's fine McEnroe was a petulant arse, Andre took meth, Nadal consistently exceeds the allowed time between points, Serena treats doping checks with contempt, Sharapova ingests banned drugs?

The difference is Tomic is doing his bad boy BS without having achieved anything first.




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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by barrystar on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 10:56 am

@reckoner, if you are disagreeing with me it's all explicable for the same reason, players and authorities understand the importance of the integrity of the spectacle, and act in the way they think is best to try to preserve it (although not always wisely and sometimes rather short-termist).  Tomic has not achieved much, granted, but that's not the point, the real harm is the fact that he is directly and deliberately challenging the integrity of the spectacle:

- McEnroe's petulance was borne out of his will to win - the very quality spectators wanted to see - and some warmed to it at the time or found it rather thrilling because it shook up the stuffy tennis world, but over time audiences have shown that they don't really like it, and players have discovered that it doesn't really help their play or their sponsors, so it has died down very considerably.  He was punished at the time - he was defaulted from the Aus Open as you may recall.

- Andre hid his meth taking at the time, as did the ATP for the very reason that I state, they did not want to damage the spectacle of the sport by implicating one of its greatest stars

- Nadal is pushing the envelope, his form of 'cheating' is not universally disliked or seen as such, so he sort of gets away with it although the authorities are trying to tackle it, if a little half-heartedly, because they do see a problem over time

- Serena's behaviour in that regard is problematic - but the WTA don't dwell on it for the reason that I state, it damages the spectacle (here they are rather short-termist, because officials probably don't want their time in charge to coincide with a big PED expose and re-invention because they have seen how traumatic that was for cycling).  I agree that they might be tougher if she was less successful - but more pertinently if she went full Tomic and came out publicly and said that tennis bored her and she was putting in a 9-5 shift on 30% effort to make money that would be a very different kettle of fish and hugely damaging because it would undermine the worth of the entire WTA for the last 20 years - such an interview could not be covered-up and you can bet they'd not like that.

- Sharapova's behaviour is also problematic, the short-termists at the WTA are prepared to forgive her because she's 'done her time' and they think she's box office (just what I was alluding to), but the more sensible folk at RG and Wimbledon know that they are in it for the long-term, and embracing the likes of Sharapova too speedily is more trouble than it's worth when viewed on that timescale.  However, it's important to note that Sharapova has at least played lip-service to the narrative of the value of the spectacle by refusing to accept that she was trying to gain an advantage and emphasising that she's competing clean &c &c.

Tomic's direct, deliberate, defiant, openly stated and intellectually justified (sort of..) challenge to the spectacle is different to all of your examples.
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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by lags72 on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 11:04 am

You make some very good, well-considered points barrystar.

But I'm also going to say that you might be in danger of lending rather too much importance to the behaviour and utterances of the very immature Bernard Tomic.

This is a guy who is clearly not without ability, and in pure ranking terms has undoubtedly made it as far as the upper echelons of the pro game. BUT he is not a high achiever at the very top level, and looks unlikely to become one. I am convinced that any serious tennis observers see him for what he is, and that his failings are symptomatic of an individual who lacks the motivation & interest to put in maximum effort, rather than reflective of some sort of malaise within the sport as a whole.

There are many, many cases of highly-paid footballers who become known for their lack of effort on the pitch, but it doesn't translate into reduced spectator attendances. What actually happens is that they get found out as individuals, and ultimately lose respect from both their peers and the wider public.

I think if Roger Federer or Rafa Nadal suddenly started making the sort of comments Tomic has, then the world would sit up and take notice. Well...... perhaps more than that : the tennis world would go into some sort of meltdown from the shock. It won't happen of course.

In summary I believe that Tomic does not have the status to cause any harm to the ATP or the wider sporting world. The only person likely to suffer will be himself - but for as long as he has enough cash, he won't care.

In a country like Australia - where most sporting 'stars' are seen as almost demi-gods - it's clear that Tomic's stock could hardly fall any lower.

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by reckoner on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 12:16 pm

barrystar wrote:@reckoner, if you are disagreeing with me...

I wasn't, barry, merely saying in tennis tout est pardonné, tout est oublié once a player is successful on court, so there's a touch of hypocrisy in the likes of McEnroe (brat) and Navratilova (steroids) being sanctimonious about Tomic.

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by slashermcguirk on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 12:45 pm

I have zero time for this guy. Oh booohooo I have to play tennis for a living, give me a break! Not only that he says he is bored on the court. Funny how he always seems to be trying hard until he starts losing. The reality is he is usually being handed a beating on the court and then once that is happening he gives up. He just isn't half as good as the top players and that is why he loses. Blaming it on not trying, u just don't buy it. The sooner he leaves the tour the better, awful attitude and hopefully kyrgios joins him.

If you don't want to be there, make way and stop using up space in the draw for other players who would give anything for the opportunity!

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by reckoner on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 1:01 pm

Well that's a bit harsh. The guy has a domineering father who denied him any semblance of a normal childhood and is very likely abusive. It's not that surprising the the wheels have come off under tabloid scrutiny and intense pressure to perform for his country. Instead of helping, the tennis world sits in judgement because he is "lucky".

Certainly, Tomic has inexcusably obnoxious opinions about his wealth and "accomplishments", but he is poorly educated and badly raised - it seems that's ALL he has to cling on to, these paltry achievements and wealth which will likely be squandered by cleverer opportunists from his family / entourage. Anyway who cares, right, there'll be another "star" for the meat grinder along in a moment.

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by dummy_half on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 1:18 pm

Slasher

I think you might be being a bit harsh on Kyrgios (although not really on Tomic). There's still time and hope for Kyrgios, but I think Tomic is done unless he can find a way to fall in love with the game himself rather than having been pushed into it. It's a pity to some extent, as I think Tomic had the potential (at least as a shot maker) to be a top 10 player, but doesn't have it between the ears.

Tomic should definitely not have said what he did after the Wimbledon performance and defeat, and barrystar makes a good point that as sports fans what we are looking for is entertainment, ideally in the form of a tight competitive match (and anyone who watched the women's cricket final the other day will confirm that the entertainment comes more from the uncertainty and competitive element than from absolute 'quality' of the product). Failing to even try is one of the big sins of anyone in sport, but it also reveals a deeper issue with character - I obviously am no-where near the level of a pro sportsman, but whenever I've competed I've not had problems with being beaten as long as I feel I've tried what I could. Indeed, you can take some satisfaction in the 'small wins' of the odd point here and there when over-matched.

It's certainly a good point that his 'tennis as a job' attitude is denying another professional the opportunity (at the moment) to compete in lucrative GS and MS events.

I'd put McEnroe's petulance in a different category - he definitely was box office, and in part that was because he could be a brat, allied to the fact that he was perhaps the best volleyer ever to play the game.
Nadal's time wasting I doubt is even particularly intentional, more that he's picked up so many tics and other habits pre-serve. It could be argued there's a bit of gamesmanship, but I actually have a bigger issue with Djokovic's interminable ball bouncing, as that seems to extend at critical points.

MaSha was a very lucky lady with the lenience the WTA showed, and Serena's attitude to drug testing is questionable at best, but there you have the top 2 box office draws for the WTA of the last decade, so is it a surprise that action against them was limited?

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 2:06 pm

For Tomic there is no hope he will become anything like a slam winner. To win a slam you need supreme talent, dedication, determination and will to win plus great fitness levels. In that list Tomic comes up short in all areas and is not dedicated or loves tennis enough to want or attempt to get better.
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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by dummy_half on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 2:29 pm

CC

A fair comment, but it raises the question of whether being a slam winner is a (semi-) realistic aspiration for most professional players. At the moment, if I count correctly, there are (an unusually low) 7 active male players with slam titles (Fed, Nadal, Djoko, Murray, Stan, Cilic and Del Potro), and very few others with MS titles (Ferrer, Berdych, Zverev, Tsonga). Only thing I'd slightly disagree is that I think Tomic could have enough 'talent' - there have certainly been more limited players have greater success (Ferrer for one...); a lack of everything else needed to go along with it is much more the limiting factor for Bernie.

While I imagine every young professional dreams of being the next Federer, the reality is that most won't even reach ATP level and that for those that do, an aspiration to have as much success as Tomic (3 ATP titles and a highest ranking in the top 16) is more achievable.

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 2:43 pm

dummy_half wrote:CC

A fair comment, but it raises the question of whether being a slam winner is a (semi-) realistic aspiration for most professional players. At the moment, if I count correctly, there are (an unusually low) 7 active male players with slam titles (Fed, Nadal, Djoko, Murray, Stan, Cilic and Del Potro), and very few others with MS titles (Ferrer, Berdych, Zverev, Tsonga).  Only thing I'd slightly disagree is that I think Tomic could have enough 'talent' - there have certainly been more limited players have greater success (Ferrer for one...); a lack of everything else needed to go along with it is much more the limiting factor for Bernie.

While I imagine every young professional dreams of being the next Federer, the reality is that most won't even reach ATP level and that for those that do, an aspiration to have as much success as Tomic (3 ATP titles and a highest ranking in the top 16) is more achievable.

For me, from what I have observed, he is too limited in various areas and if you have no work ethic then there is no hope of improvement. Sure only a handful of current players have won slams but there are a plethora who have come close by reaching slam finals sometimes on multiple occasions but Tomic is not one of those and very unlikely to ever be. He's made it abundantly clear he'd sooner be elsewhere than on a tennis court - that attitude alone disqualifies him from being in with a shout of becoming a slam winner.
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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by reckoner on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 3:28 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:For Tomic there is no hope he will become anything like a slam winner. To win a slam you need supreme talent, dedication, determination and will to win plus great fitness levels. In that list Tomic comes up short in all areas and is not dedicated or loves tennis enough to want or attempt to get better.

Yeah I said as much earlier.

Don't you think there is some cause for concern when a player thanks the umpire for a code violation because his father won't leave the court? This happened when Tomic was 19, to me that suggests an abusive father.



Some time later the father head butted a practice partner. It's naive to think such violence was confined to his hitting partner alone. This sort of thing goes on on the circuit and the ATP turn a blind eye, but are quick with condemnation when these players step out of line. Perhaps there should be more of a duty of care to young players given the prevalence of pushy, abusive parents in tennis.

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Re: Bernard Tomic Tell All on Australian TV

Post by Guest on Tue 25 Jul 2017, 4:39 pm

Tomic has never said he has thrown a tennis match.  He is just saying that when he goes onto the tennis court he often has difficulty in motivating himself and he doesn't really know why.  He says he is good enough to make a living and that is what he does.  Maybe Tomic has too much natural talent?  He currently has a world ranking of 73.  For those who have an interest in British tennis they should know how difficult and rare it is even to make it into the top 100.

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