England Women v French Women

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England Women v French Women

Post by stub on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:06 pm

Anyone watching? Great contest with some very impressive skills on display from both sides. 3-0 England.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:14 pm

Yep - not sure about the male ref though ... gave a pen for collapsing a maul against England when the French ball carrier clearly took it down ..

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by stub on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:21 pm

I thought the same...

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by stub on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:21 pm

Hopefully they can beat the French and the ref but he's not making it easy!!

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:25 pm

Indeed ... he's made a few odd decisions at the breakdown including letting the French scoop it back when off their feet.

Hopefully the French will tire in the 2nd half as England need more possession - when they get the ball they look more incisive - just keep getting pinged for holding on in the red zone.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by stub on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:47 pm

Yes! is is Thompson who seems the scythe through in a very entertaining manner?

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:50 pm

Still working out who is who Smile

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:52 pm

2nd time England should have had a scrum pen but got nothing

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:56 pm

Should've had a try there ...

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 8:57 pm

Surely that was offside?  Ball bounced off a French player and gets collected by a player in front ... are they using different laws? or maybe the player has to 'play' the ball for the offence to occur - not sure ...

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 9:05 pm

Finally they crack the French defence

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by stub on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 9:08 pm

Incredible defence there by England...

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by stub on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 9:10 pm

Not sure on the offside rule regarding your previous comment. The French definitely got an advantage so seems unfair...

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 9:11 pm

Both defences have been pretty impressive on the whole but especially England in the 1st half ..

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by stub on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 9:14 pm

Indeed, the French must have been wondering what they had to do.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 9:15 pm

I'm running slightly behind on record so have just seen that passage of play - brilliant last ditch tackle

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by stub on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 9:25 pm

Yes, amazing wasn't it?

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 9:27 pm

Superb - if the French had scored then it could have been a very tense ending ...

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Heaf on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 9:34 pm

Great result - final score a little unfair on the French who played well but England's defence was remarkable ...

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by stub on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 9:42 pm

Yes, great stuff, France played really well but England had the grit to hold them out. Agree that the last try was very harsh on the French.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Poorfour on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 10:08 pm

We planned our family holiday around going to the final, so watched the game from a pub in a small Irish town. Slightly relieved that England will be playing when we head up to Belfast... But what a great game and very tense.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by stub on Tue 22 Aug 2017, 10:29 pm

That's worked out well for you Poorfour - hope that you enjoy the match on Saturday.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Gwlad on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 2:26 am

I just hope the NZ women don't have the same concept of dirty play being acceptable as their male counterparts and that the final doesnt see any red cards.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 10:35 am

Gwlad wrote:I just hope the NZ women don't have the same concept of dirty play being acceptable..
Why don't you watch their matches to decide that question for yourself?

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Wed 23 Aug 2017, 7:20 pm

I thought both sides were incredible, the woman's game ahs come on so far in the last few years. It was full on and brutal, the sort of thing I would expect to see in an England - France 6N game.

Hunter, Matthews and Packer were something else, instant acceleration from stocky bodies and no little skill in going onto contact either tackling or ball carrying, got the better of the much bigger and more vaunted French backrow. Add that to Sarah Bern who at 20 looks capable of taking on most male props and carried like BV.

Really looking forward to Saturday.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by cascough on Thu 24 Aug 2017, 8:38 am

It was probably the most enjoyable game of Women's rugby I've ever watched, although I put that mostly down to the fact I like tight attritional rugby. The highlight for me was England's superb commitment in defence, from the first minute to the last minute. Really good stuff.

I am finding it interesting/frustrating how many viewers insist on comparing it to the men's game though. For me, if it's going to succeed it needs to stand as its own product. If you persist in holding this game to the same standards as another, there are areas in which it will inevitably fall short and that is then damaging PR for casual fans. If you've convinced someone to watch a game of Women's rugby on the strength of "It's just like the men's game!" they are going to be expecting that and may well be disappointed when they find out it's not. I've seen quite a bit of things like ...

[quote="" Add that to Sarah Bern who at 20 looks capable of taking on most male props and carried like BV.[/quote]

Sarah Bern is 5 feet 7 and 14 stone. So the above statement just isn't, and crucially will never be, true. IMO we'd be much better served extolling the ACTUAL virtues of the women's game, or, if you insist on comparing them, celebrating the differences.

It isn't just limited to Rugby either, football has a similar problem. I've seen it from male and female fans, but also from the players. They themselves also seem preoccupied with trying to copy the men's game instead of developing their own identity. If I was in charge of trying to develop women's football, the first thing on my agenda would be to say, "ffs, whatever you do, DON'T copy the men. They have an awful product" Instead they are diving all over the place and trying to con the ref (read cheating) just like in the male game. Things like that represent a massive missed opportunity for me and I think it stems from Players/coaches/governing bodies/fans trying to emulate the men's game.

What do people think?

Should the women be trying to emulate the men?

Should fans compare the two?






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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by Poorfour on Thu 24 Aug 2017, 11:35 am

Interesting post cascough. I think there's a balance to be struck. The natural audience for rugby of any kind is rugby fans, so there's some merit in attracting people by pointing out the similarities. But as you say, it isn't and never will be exactly like the full professional men's game.

I tend to think of - and bill - the women's game as being like the U20s or U18s. It's a bit less physical, but often the skill levels on display are higher, precisely because a purely physical approach isn't viable.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by aucklandlaurie on Thu 24 Aug 2017, 6:08 pm

I come at it from a two different tangents.

 You can view it like the difference between mens and womens tennis, the men play a much more powerful, faster game, but does not offer the length of rallys that the women provide through their softness and the  playing of touch tennis.but two very enjoyable forms of the one sport.

Another angle is comparing it to the difference between Formula 1 and Indy cars, sure two very fast versions of a racing car but many differences.

 Womens Rugby offers an alternative within the same code.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by cascough on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 8:31 am

Poorfour wrote:Interesting post cascough. I think there's a balance to be struck. The natural audience for rugby of any kind is rugby fans, so there's some merit in attracting people by pointing out the similarities. But as you say, it isn't and never will be exactly like the full professional men's game.

I tend to think of - and bill - the women's game as being like the U20s or U18s. It's a bit less physical, but often the skill levels on display are higher, precisely because a purely physical approach isn't viable.

I'd still disagree with the part in bold, but I do agree with the part afterwards.

Looking at the Women's game, I agree that they favour skills over brawn, and more often that not the men favour brawn over skills but to me that doesn't therefore mean that the thing the women favour is done better than the thing the men favour and vice versa. I don't think we should be comparing the two and holding the women to the same standards as the men. They are not professional for one thing. But more than that it leads to is a sort of disingenuous give and take situation whereby the women are unfairly compared to the men and will come up short in something like physicality (which is just a battle they are never going to win), and so people then overstate something about the women's game to balance it up (eg they are more skillful).

To me, them placing a higher emphasis on skills should be enough of a selling point for a lot of people. They don't have to be as skillful or more skillful than the men to be successful, I think the comparison is irrelevant.

It's a sensitive issue, which is probably why people feel the need to make out the respective games are on an equal footing, but If the game is going to succeed, I'd be trying to carve my own path.

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Re: England Women v French Women

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Fri 25 Aug 2017, 4:35 pm

cascough wrote:
Poorfour wrote:Interesting post cascough. I think there's a balance to be struck. The natural audience for rugby of any kind is rugby fans, so there's some merit in attracting people by pointing out the similarities. But as you say, it isn't and never will be exactly like the full professional men's game.

I tend to think of - and bill - the women's game as being like the U20s or U18s. It's a bit less physical, but often the skill levels on display are higher, precisely because a purely physical approach isn't viable.

I'd still disagree with the part in bold, but I do agree with the part afterwards.

Looking at the Women's game, I agree that they favour skills over brawn, and more often that not the men favour brawn over skills but to me that doesn't therefore mean that the thing the women favour is done better than the thing the men favour and vice versa. I don't think we should be comparing the two and holding the women to the same standards as the men. They are not professional for one thing. But more than that it leads to is a sort of disingenuous give and take situation whereby the women are unfairly compared to the men and will come up short in something like physicality (which is just a battle they are never going to win), and so people then overstate something about the women's game to balance it up (eg they are more skillful).

To me, them placing a higher emphasis on skills should be enough of a selling point for a lot of people. They don't have to be as skillful or more skillful than the men to be successful, I think the comparison is irrelevant.

It's a sensitive issue, which is probably why people feel the need to make out the respective games are on an equal footing, but If the game is going to succeed, I'd be trying to carve my own path.  

I don't think that is quite correct, my previous comments were about just how physical the women are, everything is relative. Bern is as you say 5'7" and 14 stone, much shorter and lighter than a male prop, but she is not playing against a male prop, therefore she can bring just as much effective physicality to the game as her male counterpart. No one is saying that she has the power of Dan Cole, but relative to her female counterparts, she is more physical and seems to relish that side of the game.

Having said that, one of the French props looked like she was pushing 6' and weighing at least 17 stone and Bern had her for breakfast.

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Re: England Women v French Women

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