KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Go down

KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:55 am

First topic message reminder :

RAVESPAN STADIUM
Friday 1st September 2017 19:35pm

Team: Please see in comments
Ref, TMO etc: See above


Last edited by Pete330v2 on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

Pete330v2

Posts : 3060
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down


Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:33 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:The only problem with taking Diack out is that there would be no lineout forwards in the pack. I thought he carried well and had one of his better games. The lineout was a shambles though, with the timing way off most of the game. Piutau maybe tried the quick throw because that was the only way they were winning it!
Good to see Matty Rea get a run he looked like a clone of Matt McCullough, which is no bad thing.
Liked the midfield of Stu n' Tommy - McCloskey played a more cerebral game than he did last season and Bowe also showed what pace at 13 can do.
It was interesting too how CL moved out in defence to get Stu in their face early and the pacier Christian to deal with the wider threat.

I agree, we are caught in a catch 22. It would have been better to keep Van der Merwe, but for the NIQ issue. Diack is mediocre around the field. Sure, he lifts his game every now and then, but rarely, and he lacks aggression and weight. We need to bring through talent from the schools, and open up other schools to find that talent.

I think the line-out was doing ok when Piutau made the throw, but it's more about what happened when he made the throw. Very smart play.

Bowe did well against the Cheetahs, but I won't be convinced until we see him against tougher opposition. Right now I still want Marshall/Cave in that role, but hope to be proven wrong.

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 02, 2017 1:36 pm

George Carlin wrote:Why can't Ulster fans just be happy? I don't understand it.

I agree. That was a very exciting game, but some want to pick at faults. As a collective, we need to get out of this mind-set and get behind the team. I've done my fair share of moaning in the past, but I was justified angel

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by clivemcl on Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:38 pm

I have to agree, it's like nobody dares to hope that it might be different.
The Jackson thing had us sweating, but Lealifano is his equal if not better, so that's fine until Januray, Deysel we knew was a solid ball carrier, a fit Marcel ready for a proper full season and we got rid of Clarke and Doak and we signed an IQ srum half who is no doubt going to be better than Marshall.
ANd yet, it's liek everyone still expected it to be underwhelming. Mostly based off pre-season friendlies which in my book tell you absolutely nothing.
Even the crowd last night was very flat after Ulster started to pull away with more tries. Almost like the crowd were thinking 'big whoop it's just like another Zebre' as opposed to believing Ulster were putting a very good side to the sword.

P.S. I was in the Memorial Stand last night - the most dull sporting experience I've ever had. The BBC must focus their mics on that one section of supporters in the terrace, because they made it sound much more raucous than it actually was in the ground!

clivemcl

Posts : 3703
Join date : 2011-05-09

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Pete330v2 on Sat Sep 02, 2017 2:56 pm

Well I'm a happy Ulster fan.
I thought we made a better account of ourselves than we did the majority of last season and that was our first game with brand new partnerships that will gel a lot more with more gametime. Leali'ifano and Cooney didn't look like they'ed never played together, probably and hopefully a measure of how good they are. The backrow was awesome, nothing like anything we had last year. The second row combination was weak and that effected the whole tight 5. Diack isn't a strong option but he's at least solid and we are obviously in the catch 22 situation previously mentioned. Worryingly he was probably on negative metres made last night.
I am very optimistic and if we're to improve with gametime, as I think we will, we could be on the up.

The band really does have to be taken out and put to a humane end , awful.

Pete330v2

Posts : 3060
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Don Alfonso on Sat Sep 02, 2017 3:28 pm

I've been saying this forever. Especially in tedious self-flagellation as regards Munster and Leinster.

Munster, for example, are losing their head coach and defence coach in November. Favourite to take over for the rest of the season is Felix Jones, a thirty year old who has previously been skills coach? and stopped playing only a few seasons ago. If that were happening up here you can bet the howls would be deafening, and amongst the screams would be "this mess wouldn't happen at any other province!!", you can put money on that.

The lack of homegrown Ulstermen lining out is disappointing, but are we so much worse than Munster, who would have Kleyn, Groebler, Stander, Byendaal, Taute, possibly Farrell and Conway in their best starting 15?

I think it's all pretty monotonous. It looks like genuine strides are being made in opening the game up across the providence. We have - in Gibbes - possibly the best coach we have had in the professional era. We have a batch of talented youngsters coming in, without Clarke to ruin them.

Chin up, ffs.

Don Alfonso

Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-05-09
Age : 41
Location : The 'Shaft

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by The Great Aukster on Sat Sep 02, 2017 4:38 pm

It's just the Ulster -Scots ones that are a bit dreigh.

The Great Aukster

Posts : 4272
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:19 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:I've been saying this forever. Especially in tedious self-flagellation as regards Munster and Leinster.

Munster, for example, are losing their head coach and defence coach in November. Favourite to take over for the rest of the season is Felix Jones, a thirty year old who has previously been skills coach? and stopped playing only a few seasons ago. If that were happening up here you can bet the howls would be deafening, and amongst the screams would be "this mess wouldn't happen at any other province!!", you can put money on that.

The lack of homegrown Ulstermen lining out is disappointing, but are we so much worse than Munster, who would have Kleyn, Groebler, Stander, Byendaal, Taute, possibly Farrell and Conway in their best starting 15?

I think it's all pretty monotonous. It looks like genuine strides are being made in opening the game up across the providence. We have - in Gibbes - possibly the best coach we have had in the professional era. We have a batch of talented youngsters coming in, without Clarke to ruin them.

Chin up, ffs.

I think it is fine and perfectly justified to be concerned regarding the bolded bit. Yes, we are much worse than Munster. Groebler hasn't even played a game for Munster yet and Farrell has played just one. Aside from that and more importantly, Munster's experienced internationals are all still on the right side of thirty (POM, Murray, Zebo, Earls etc) and they have a plethora of promising young players coming through to challenge hard for their shirts over the next few seasons.

From our perspective, most of our experienced internationals are well into their thirties and we do not have enough young players pushing them, particularly in the pack. I was a very happy Ulster fan yesterday, but you cannot deny that our dominance was largely a result of our NIQ players, whom we heavily rely on. We are miles behind in terms of our young players coming through.

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 11285
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:20 pm

And the band is also crap. Honestly, I would be an even happier Ulster fan if they didn't exist.

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 11285
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Kingshu on Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:28 pm

While the southern media/fans have been pointing out there were only 2 Ulstermen from 1-8 they are slower pointing out there were only 2 Munstermen from 9-15 for Munster yesterday.

Kingshu

Posts : 3423
Join date : 2011-05-30

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Don Alfonso on Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:39 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:I've been saying this forever. Especially in tedious self-flagellation as regards Munster and Leinster.

Munster, for example, are losing their head coach and defence coach in November. Favourite to take over for the rest of the season is Felix Jones, a thirty year old who has previously been skills coach? and stopped playing only a few seasons ago. If that were happening up here you can bet the howls would be deafening, and amongst the screams would be "this mess wouldn't happen at any other province!!", you can put money on that.

The lack of homegrown Ulstermen lining out is disappointing, but are we so much worse than Munster, who would have Kleyn, Groebler, Stander, Byendaal, Taute, possibly Farrell and Conway in their best starting 15?

I think it's all pretty monotonous. It looks like genuine strides are being made in opening the game up across the providence. We have - in Gibbes - possibly the best coach we have had in the professional era. We have a batch of talented youngsters coming in, without Clarke to ruin them.

Chin up, ffs.

I think it is fine and perfectly justified to be concerned regarding the bolded bit. Yes, we are much worse than Munster. Groebler hasn't even played a game for Munster yet and Farrell has played just one. Aside from that and more importantly, Munster's experienced internationals are all still on the right side of thirty (POM, Murray, Zebo, Earls etc) and they have a plethora of promising young players coming through to challenge hard for their shirts over the next few seasons.

From our perspective, most of our experienced internationals are well into their thirties and we do not have enough young players pushing them, particularly in the pack. I was a very happy Ulster fan yesterday, but you cannot deny that our dominance was largely a result of our NIQ players, whom we heavily rely on. We are miles behind in terms of our young players coming through.

Really? Who are these plethora? Do you actually have players in mod? Who are your favourites? Why do you rate them so highly?

I take your points about the experienced transnationals (although Earls will be thirty next month). And who is the "etc", please?

And last time I checked, Munster relied pretty heavily last season on Stander, Bleyendaal and Taute.

Of course Ulster really need to up their game. But I can't understand how people can't see that the process has started.

Don Alfonso

Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-05-09
Age : 41
Location : The 'Shaft

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Guest on Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:47 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:It's just the Ulster -Scots ones that are a bit dreigh.


mad

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by George Carlin on Sat Sep 02, 2017 6:53 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:It's just the Ulster -Scots ones that are a bit dreigh dreich.
avatar
George Carlin
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 13905
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : United Arab Emirates

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:30 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:I've been saying this forever. Especially in tedious self-flagellation as regards Munster and Leinster.

Munster, for example, are losing their head coach and defence coach in November. Favourite to take over for the rest of the season is Felix Jones, a thirty year old who has previously been skills coach? and stopped playing only a few seasons ago. If that were happening up here you can bet the howls would be deafening, and amongst the screams would be "this mess wouldn't happen at any other province!!", you can put money on that.

The lack of homegrown Ulstermen lining out is disappointing, but are we so much worse than Munster, who would have Kleyn, Groebler, Stander, Byendaal, Taute, possibly Farrell and Conway in their best starting 15?

I think it's all pretty monotonous. It looks like genuine strides are being made in opening the game up across the providence. We have - in Gibbes - possibly the best coach we have had in the professional era. We have a batch of talented youngsters coming in, without Clarke to ruin them.

Chin up, ffs.

I think it is fine and perfectly justified to be concerned regarding the bolded bit. Yes, we are much worse than Munster. Groebler hasn't even played a game for Munster yet and Farrell has played just one. Aside from that and more importantly, Munster's experienced internationals are all still on the right side of thirty (POM, Murray, Zebo, Earls etc) and they have a plethora of promising young players coming through to challenge hard for their shirts over the next few seasons.

From our perspective, most of our experienced internationals are well into their thirties and we do not have enough young players pushing them, particularly in the pack. I was a very happy Ulster fan yesterday, but you cannot deny that our dominance was largely a result of our NIQ players, whom we heavily rely on. We are miles behind in terms of our young players coming through.

Really? Who are these plethora? Do you actually have players in mod? Who are your favourites? Why do you rate them so highly?

I take your points about the experienced transnationals (although Earls will be thirty next month). And who is the "etc", please?

And last time I checked, Munster relied pretty heavily last season on Stander, Bleyendaal and Taute.

Of course Ulster really need to up their game. But I can't understand how people can't see that the process has started.

Yes, I do have a plethora of young players in mind actually. I follow Munster as a second team so I do have some knowledge of their youth/academy. Some featured for the first time last season, some featured last night, some have yet to feature. I believe many will be capped for Ireland. There are many more than Ulster. Do you really need someone to write you a list? Either way, you'll find out fairly soon what I mean in the coming seasons. I'll make sure to be around to tell you that I told you so. Wink

As for the "etc" I was referring to the Irish internationals who are experienced Munster men and Irish internationals who wouldn't be in the same calibre as those I mentioned above (Kilcoyne, Cronin, Scannell, etc). Will I have to explain the "etc" in this instance also?

And you're also missing my general point about relying on foreign players. Munster actually have players who, if they aren't already, will be pressuring the NIQ players over the next few seasons. We didn't have a Ruan replacement, we likely won't have an adequate Deysel/Coetzee replacement, nor the depth required anyway, and when we do get IQ players they aren't Ulster developed.

Continue not understanding - it's quite clear to me we will rely on non-Ulster bred players for the next few seasons at least in quite a few key positions. And once again, even if we do have talent, the depth isn't there (see Jackson).


Last edited by Rory_Gallagher on Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:45 pm; edited 1 time in total

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 11285
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat Sep 02, 2017 7:38 pm

You know what, to save the boring retorts from some that I have no idea what I'm talking about, here's your silly list of young players I believe will be prominent players for Munster for years to come:

O'Connor, O'Connor, Coombes, Coombes, Wycherly, Johnston, Goggin, Wooton, Nash and Oliver (yes, Leinster convert, I know). Those are the players I am most familiar with but other Munster fans will know a few more.

Slightly older players who are yet to establish themselves in the first team (but are usually in the 23) would be O'Donoghue, Sweetnam and Hanrahan on his return.

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 11285
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by The Great Aukster on Sat Sep 02, 2017 8:55 pm

George Carlin wrote:
The Great Aukster wrote:It's just the Ulster -Scots ones that are a bit dreigh dreich.
How dreigh!

The Great Aukster

Posts : 4272
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Don Alfonso on Sat Sep 02, 2017 9:11 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:I've been saying this forever. Especially in tedious self-flagellation as regards Munster and Leinster.

Munster, for example, are losing their head coach and defence coach in November. Favourite to take over for the rest of the season is Felix Jones, a thirty year old who has previously been skills coach? and stopped playing only a few seasons ago. If that were happening up here you can bet the howls would be deafening, and amongst the screams would be "this mess wouldn't happen at any other province!!", you can put money on that.

The lack of homegrown Ulstermen lining out is disappointing, but are we so much worse than Munster, who would have Kleyn, Groebler, Stander, Byendaal, Taute, possibly Farrell and Conway in their best starting 15?

I think it's all pretty monotonous. It looks like genuine strides are being made in opening the game up across the providence. We have - in Gibbes - possibly the best coach we have had in the professional era. We have a batch of talented youngsters coming in, without Clarke to ruin them.

Chin up, ffs.

I think it is fine and perfectly justified to be concerned regarding the bolded bit. Yes, we are much worse than Munster. Groebler hasn't even played a game for Munster yet and Farrell has played just one. Aside from that and more importantly, Munster's experienced internationals are all still on the right side of thirty (POM, Murray, Zebo, Earls etc) and they have a plethora of promising young players coming through to challenge hard for their shirts over the next few seasons.

From our perspective, most of our experienced internationals are well into their thirties and we do not have enough young players pushing them, particularly in the pack. I was a very happy Ulster fan yesterday, but you cannot deny that our dominance was largely a result of our NIQ players, whom we heavily rely on. We are miles behind in terms of our young players coming through.

Really? Who are these plethora? Do you actually have players in mod? Who are your favourites? Why do you rate them so highly?

I take your points about the experienced transnationals (although Earls will be thirty next month). And who is the "etc", please?

And last time I checked, Munster relied pretty heavily last season on Stander, Bleyendaal and Taute.

Of course Ulster really need to up their game. But I can't understand how people can't see that the process has started.

Yes, I do have a plethora of young players in mind actually. I follow Munster as a second team so I do have some knowledge of their youth/academy. Some featured for the first time last season, some featured last night, some have yet to feature. I believe many will be capped for Ireland. There are many more than Ulster. Do you really need someone to write you a list? Either way, you'll find out fairly soon what I mean in the coming seasons. I'll make sure to be around to tell you that I told you so. Wink

As for the "etc" I was referring to the Irish internationals who are experienced Munster men and Irish internationals who wouldn't be in the same calibre as those I mentioned above (Kilcoyne, Cronin, Scannell, etc). Will I have to explain the "etc" in this instance also?

And you're also missing my general point about relying on foreign players. Munster actually have players who, if they aren't already, will be pressuring the NIQ players over the next few seasons. We didn't have a Ruan replacement, we likely won't have an adequate Deysel/Coetzee replacement, nor the depth required anyway, and when we do get IQ players they aren't Ulster developed.

Continue not understanding - it's quite clear to me we will rely on non-Ulster bred players for the next few seasons at least in quite a few key positions. And once again, even if we do have talent, the depth isn't there (see Jackson).

I noticed you moved in the goalposts from "homegrown" to NIQ, so Stander and Bleyendaal don't ccme into the conversation. Clever.

In terms of young fellas coming though, two or three times there you just assert that time and the coming seasons will prove you right, to which there is no actual argument. "You wait and see!" I guess I will have to, because you have proven - or even illustrated - precisely nothing. Personally, I'm excited about seeing Lyttle, Kane, Hume, Lowry (more so than McPhillips), Stewart, Stewart Moore (though he ha only just turned 18 I think?), O'Hagan, Hall, Rea (elder) and Dunleavy come through (and O'Toole, who I can have if you can have Oliver). You're not. Fine. I can't wait to see the forwards in that list start to train under Gibbes.

I don't actually disagree with your last couple of sentences. But a couple of seasons is not a lifetime. Munster don't rely on their imports as much as we do. They don't. But they do rely on them. And I simply don't think the difference is as vast as you do.

For example, how would Munster have done last season with Bill Johnston (or another homegrown talent) at 10? If you think, as I do, they would have been nowhere near the Pro12 final, then do you not think maybe they relied on Bleyendaal (import) and Keatley (import)? That those two non-Munster boys were absolutely crucial?

No, because liginds and stand up and fight and throw a blanket over the pack and POC and ROG and sure Stander cries during the anthem.

Anyway, it's Saturday night. Have a good one.

Don Alfonso

Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-05-09
Age : 41
Location : The 'Shaft

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat Sep 02, 2017 10:55 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:

I noticed you moved in the goalposts from "homegrown" to NIQ, so Stander and Bleyendaal don't ccme into the conversation. Clever.

In terms of young fellas coming though, two or three times there you just assert that time and the coming seasons will prove you right, to which there is no actual argument. "You wait and see!" I guess I will have to, because you have proven - or even illustrated - precisely nothing. Personally, I'm excited about seeing Lyttle, Kane, Hume, Lowry (more so than McPhillips), Stewart, Stewart Moore (though he ha only just turned 18 I think?), O'Hagan, Hall, Rea (elder) and Dunleavy come through (and O'Toole, who I can have if you can have Oliver). You're not. Fine. I can't wait to see the forwards in that list start to train under Gibbes.

I don't actually disagree with your last couple of sentences. But a couple of seasons is not a lifetime. Munster don't rely on their imports as much as we do. They don't. But they do rely on them. And I simply don't think the difference is as vast as you do.

For example, how would Munster have done last season with Bill Johnston (or another homegrown talent) at 10? If you think, as I do, they would have been nowhere near the Pro12 final, then do you not think maybe they relied on Bleyendaal (import) and Keatley (import)? That those two non-Munster boys were absolutely crucial?

No, because liginds and stand up and fight and throw a blanket over the pack and POC and ROG and sure Stander cries during the anthem.

Anyway, it's Saturday night. Have a good one.

Yes, it is a Saturday night, so I'll make this my last post. Please read more carefully this time.

No, no I did not try anything "clever" regarding the homegrown thing. Read the entire post, and the next one. Particularly the words "Ulster developed" and "non-Ulster bred". I don't see how my use of the term "NIQ" changes anything. In fact, as I recall, Bleyendaal is still NIQ. So the only player that I perhaps should have added along with that was Stander. Who has the very talented JOD behind him. So my point is exactly the same.

I don't know what you want me to prove/illustrate exactly, but I did give you the silly list which you asked for. Nothing more, and I made clear that these are a number of promising players I believe will be important for years to come at Munster. There are some I'm excited for at Ulster as well, but really, our lists aren't exactly comparable - surely that's obvious? Most of your list haven't even featured yet for Ulster. And, shall I remind you what happened to our previous batch of academy prospects? Taggart? Dow? Haven't fans been asking why such players never get a game and then are dropped for the past few seasons? Forgive me if I'm cynical. I do, like you, hope that Gibbes makes a difference.

The most important point is to do with the age profile of the players ahead of them and the fact that many of these young homegrown players will be ready to replace the NIQ/non-homegrown/whatever term you prefer in the next few years. Second row? O'Shea, Wycherly, O'Connor and I believe Coombes also have featured for Munster and look promising. So Kleyn will be replaced. They are weaker at halfback in terms of players coming through, but they did bring JJ back at 10 and Johnston is spoken highly of. They also lost a good 10 through retirement last summer. Is this really comparable to the situation at Ulster? Not in my mind, hence my belief that I will be proven right in a few years. Munster will have more homegrown players while we will still be relying on NIQ players in many of the same positions.

No, a couple of seasons is not a lifetime. Which is why I said a couple of seasons and not a lifetime. Yes, you seem to agree with me that Munster don't rely on NIQ players as much as us. So, what's the issue again? Most importantly, and what I alluded to above, I'm trying to say that they are smarter with the NIQ system than we are. They don't have a player in a position for 7 years and nobody next in line to replace them. That's precisely my point here.

At the end of the day, we seem to disagree on this. I'm happy enough with that. I was also happy with the win the other night. But I believe we are very far behind the other Irish provinces with regards to the youth and academy players, aside from a few talented individuals, and that we could be in for a tough few years if we don't continue to sign the best non-homegrown players in a number of key positions.

Rory_Gallagher

Posts : 11285
Join date : 2011-09-18
Age : 25
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Don Alfonso on Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:01 am

Hmmm. Okay, Rory.

Any reports anywhere on Ulster U18 Schools beating Leinster? All I can see is a scoreline.

Don Alfonso

Posts : 2364
Join date : 2011-05-09
Age : 41
Location : The 'Shaft

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun Sep 03, 2017 11:26 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote: I was also happy with the win the other night. But I believe we are very far behind the other Irish provinces with regards to the youth and academy players, aside from a few talented individuals, and that we could be in for a tough few years if we don't continue to sign the best non-homegrown players in a number of key positions.
Ulster need to rely on imports to remain competitive. Aside from the odd exceptional forward like Henderson the system doesn't produce Forwards - neither does the Munster system produce backs. Bringing in exiles like Dougall, Bealham, Taggart and Dow into the Academy isn't working either. Why?

IMO the answer lies in the all-Ireland league. While Munster and Leinster are developing their young players in 1a & 1b, the Ulster Academy guys show up on match day to play in 2b. Connacht spread their prospects over fewer clubs than Ulster and they are training with their players. The AIL is a daft concept below 1b anyway, but won't be changed because it serves Leinster and Munster so well.

The Great Aukster

Posts : 4272
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun Sep 03, 2017 12:30 pm

clivemcl wrote:I have to agree, it's like nobody dares to hope that it might be different.
The Jackson thing had us sweating, but Lealifano is his equal if not better, so that's fine until Januray, Deysel we knew was a solid ball carrier, a fit Marcel ready for a proper full season and we got rid of Clarke and Doak and we signed an IQ srum half who is no doubt going to be better than Marshall.
ANd yet, it's liek everyone still expected it to be underwhelming. Mostly based off pre-season friendlies which in my book tell you absolutely nothing.
Even the crowd last night was very flat after Ulster started to pull away with more tries. Almost like the crowd were thinking 'big whoop it's just like another Zebre' as opposed to believing Ulster were putting a very good side to the sword.

P.S. I was in the Memorial Stand last night - the most dull sporting experience I've ever had. The BBC must focus their mics on that one section of supporters in the terrace, because they made it sound much more raucous than it actually was in the ground!

One swallow doesn't make a summer. Leali'ifano looked as though he could have been playing for the opposition, such was the looseness in his game. The Cheetahs first try came from kicking the ball to their back three while deep in his 22. On the stroke of half time, rather than kick the ball dead he opted for the same play, which they knocked on. Early in the second half again from a defensive position he kicked infield and was nearly charged down. All helter skelter stuff and maybe Ulster should be playing that high risk game, but on those nights when it's lashing (like Galway was last night), will he realise that one mistake could cost the game? He had a good outing but didn't look especially better than Nelson when he came on, so I'll reserve the hyperbole for a few games yet.

The Great Aukster

Posts : 4272
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by marty2086 on Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:17 am

FFS it was the guys first competitive start in about a year, he was training with his team mates a matter of days. He played his game and got the timings and distances wrong, that'll come good with games together.

Rewatched the game yesterday and that was a performance we can be pleased with as there is genuine improvement on last season. Our defence looked good, the tries came from turnovers so there's still room for improvement but there seemed to be more intelligence in our defence instead of some of the rigidity we seemed to have last season

marty2086

Posts : 8194
Join date : 2011-05-13
Age : 31
Location : Belfast

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Mon Sep 04, 2017 9:47 am

Wow the vibe from this thread would make you think Ulster got well beaten.
1st game of the season,
where the Lions and plenty of Test calibre players are rested,
when you're new outhalf is just off a plane,
you've a new scrumhalf getting to know his surroundings,
against a cheetahs side that is fully battle hardened after super rugby,
and you score 6 tries!

I'd say Scarlets and Ulster had the best result of the weekend. (possible case for Glasgow).

thebandwagonsociety

Posts : 2265
Join date : 2011-06-02

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by George Carlin on Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:44 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Wow the vibe from this thread would make you think Ulster got well beaten.
1st game of the season,
where the Lions and plenty of Test calibre players are rested,
when you're new outhalf is just off a plane,
you've a new scrumhalf getting to know his surroundings,
against a cheetahs side that is fully battle hardened after super rugby,
and you score 6 tries!
I've tried, BWS. 

I cannot make them cheer the f#ck up. I believe the issue might be genetic.
avatar
George Carlin
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 13905
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : United Arab Emirates

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Pete330v2 on Mon Sep 04, 2017 11:55 am

George Carlin wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:Wow the vibe from this thread would make you think Ulster got well beaten.
1st game of the season,
where the Lions and plenty of Test calibre players are rested,
when you're new outhalf is just off a plane,
you've a new scrumhalf getting to know his surroundings,
against a cheetahs side that is fully battle hardened after super rugby,
and you score 6 tries!
I've tried, BWS. 

I cannot make them cheer the f#ck up. I believe the issue might be genetic.

More geographic

Pete330v2

Posts : 3060
Join date : 2012-05-04

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Guest on Mon Sep 04, 2017 12:27 pm

More geriatric

Run

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by The Great Aukster on Mon Sep 04, 2017 5:23 pm

marty2086 wrote:FFS it was the guys first competitive start in about a year, he was training with his team mates a matter of days. He played his game and got the timings and distances wrong, that'll come good with games together.

Agree with all of that, which is why it's daft saying he's the equal or better than Jackson based on his 50 minute debut.

The Great Aukster

Posts : 4272
Join date : 2011-06-09

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by clivemcl on Mon Sep 04, 2017 8:12 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:
marty2086 wrote:FFS it was the guys first competitive start in about a year, he was training with his team mates a matter of days. He played his game and got the timings and distances wrong, that'll come good with games together.

Agree with all of that, which is why it's daft saying he's the equal or better than Jackson based on his 50 minute debut.

Debut for us. He does have a career which is probably a fair enough indicator despite his illness. 19 wallabies caps. I'd have thought given our knowledge of his standard at Brumbies, plus the fairly positive display on Friday night is reason enough to be optimistic that Jackson's absence is not so great a loss (till January).

clivemcl

Posts : 3703
Join date : 2011-05-09

Back to top Go down

Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 3 of 3 Previous  1, 2, 3

View previous topic View next topic Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum