KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

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KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Pete330v2 on Wed 30 Aug 2017, 10:55 am

First topic message reminder :

RAVESPAN STADIUM
Friday 1st September 2017 19:35pm

Team: Please see in comments
Ref, TMO etc: See above


Last edited by Pete330v2 on Wed 30 Aug 2017, 12:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:24 pm

The Cheetahs look fantastic and are nowhere near out of this game. If Ulster give them any gap at all the pace is way and above anything we have.
Ulster do look up for this led by those awe inspiring examples of Deysel and Coetzee. If we can build on this it'll be a great second half.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:25 pm

Coetzee has gone batshit crazy, the way he hit that ruck then tried to take the whole Cheetahs pack before the ref told him to go away. Deysel and Henry both very good as well. Our backrow has been very impressive. Lealiifano has been very good, nice deft passing which has created a lot of opportunities for McCloskey and Bowe (hence their tries) and a nice break, one or two dodgey out of hand kicks though. Cooney has been very composed on his competitive debut. Second row is holding up but not much more than that, front row doing well in the scrum but McCall coming under a bit of pressure towards the end of the half. Back three not quite firing, but Piutau doing well individually.


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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:39 pm

Cheetahs are fast but they're not very strong. It's an impressive performance by Ulster.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:46 pm

Coetzee and Lealiifano being taken off is a concern, especially on the back of that Cheetahs try.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:47 pm

Cheetah mistakes costing them this match
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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Mr Fishpaste on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:53 pm

Indeed. Benjamin should have held on to that.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:54 pm

Cheetahs will need to compete better at the rucks, the NH teams contest rucks to slow down ball, and there are no Cheetahs there
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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:59 pm

Frak the cheetahs are making too many errors
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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:00 pm

These are seriously pisspoor yellow cards
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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by VinceWLB on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:00 pm

Wow what a catch from the TH prop!

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:00 pm

What on Earth is that yellow for?

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Mr Fishpaste on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:00 pm

Commentators are going to need to have some lessons in SA name pronunciation Very Happy

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:01 pm

Doesn't leave a very positive taste in the mouth
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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by VinceWLB on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:01 pm

haha, thats never a yellow card.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Mr Fishpaste on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:01 pm

A yellow for that tackle? Really...

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:02 pm

Soft yellow, very soft.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:03 pm

Welcome to NH rugby cheetahs.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:05 pm

Not impressed with the referee, how did the Cheetahs not get a penalty at that scrum?
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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Mr Fishpaste on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:08 pm

Trimble should've been sent off for not being able to beat a prop on the outside...

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:09 pm

Is there some new directive on shirt pulling I'm not aware of? Cheetahs weak on contact surprisingly, but strong in the scrum. Glad to have them in our league, I like what they're bringing so far.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by VinceWLB on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:10 pm

Biltong wrote:Welcome to NH rugby cheetahs.


I think refereeing in this match has been a joke and a good summary of NH club rugby. It's almost as if Cheetahs weren't allowed to compete.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:13 pm

VinceWLB wrote:
Biltong wrote:Welcome to NH rugby cheetahs.


I think refereeing in this match has been a joke and a good summary of NH club rugby. It's almost as if Cheetahs weren't allowed to compete.

Well the Cheetahs tried manfully, made plenty of mistakes though.

They will need to get their heads around the refereeing because it was pisspoor in my opinion, but they need to adapt.

Cheetahs need some meat in their backline, too many small guys
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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by VinceWLB on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:27 pm

Well, that could have been a great game but ruined by weak refereeing.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:33 pm

It was mentioned a lot but Deysel and Coetzee were everywhere. I see Kleyn was on the scoresheet twice for Munster too. Imagine if these guys played for Cheetahs, they'd probably be a lot better. It's something the SARU should be aspiring to do.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:42 pm

Aside from the dodgy yellow, I don't think the ref got a lot wrong.  Coetzee maybe lucky to get away with a clearout off his feet but the touch judge told the ref it was fine.  As far as the breakdown and contact were concerned I think the Cheetahs were just a bit outclassed by the Ulster backrow.

As far as Ulster are concerned, our tight five is a weakness, I thought the front row started to lose it at the scrum towards the end, it will be better when Best is back as he is known for his scrumaging.  Second row is a massive problem, the lineout disintegrated, Diack has a lot of skills but he is a weakness in the back row and a weakness in the second row.  We don't have an out and out lineout technician in the squad, so even when Henderson is back, the second row and lineout are liable to be a weakness.  Backrow was hugely impressive, its amazing the difference Coetzee made, along with Deysel they dominated the contact situation and with a groundhog like Henry at 7 it was a very potent mix.

As for the backs, great competitive debuts from Cooney and Lealiifano and the centres really fired on the back of what they had to work with.  Bowe may have found a new lease at the end of his career going back to 13, where one could argue he played his best rugby during his time at the Ospreys.  Back three are difficult to size up, all three do things so well individually, Piutau is magic at times, Ludik is such a workhorse and a solid all rounder, Trimble still has a lot to give.  But as a unit they aren't quite clicking.  The knock on by Ludik after Piutau broke a tackle and got the offload away was symptomatic of a back three that aren't quite on the same wave length at times.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by VinceWLB on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:44 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Is there some new directive on shirt pulling I'm not aware of? Cheetahs weak on contact surprisingly, but strong in the scrum. Glad to have them in our league, I like what they're bringing so far.

To be fair, i have rarely see them taking a backward step at the scrum in Super Rugby.

Would have loved seeing them in the reverse fixture. Also, remember they were missing some key players tonight.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:54 pm

The problem is the first yellow came without any warnng off a first maul by Ulster, that effectively killed the Cheetahs as 19 points conceded took the score from 14-8 to 14-27.

When the Ulster replacement prop forward deliberately dropped into the side of a Cheetahmaul nothing was done, the Cheetah mauls contracted only one penalty, should have recieved more.

The scrum of the cheetahs after the knock by Ludic should have contracted a penalty, it didn't

The second yellow was luaghable, cost te Cheetahs another 7 points.

Perhaps this is a case of South African teams having to adapt to how mauls are refereed, as well as scrums.

In this match it cost them dearly.

Cheetahs need bigger guys in the back line, you can't have players gaining another 4-5 yards in the tackle.

They will also have to put more physicality into the breakdown, they were turned over a lot in the tackkle.

Disappointing start for the Cheetahs when they conceded two yellow cards and 26 points in a match where they looked competitive.

Adapt to refereeing, get a bit of beef in the back line, attack the rucks and minmise the unforced errors

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:00 pm

Thought the Cheetahs were allowed to live offside, basically. Ridiculous. That was never a yellow for their prop, though.

Very fast and explosive but skills aren't great.

Agree Ulster second row wasn't great. However, we have a Lion and a new Irish international to come in. As well as Marshall, Stockdale, Gilroy, Lyttle and our other two Lions (Best and Payne). And depending, Jackson and Olding.

Didn't think we'd get that win in our first competitive game since May. Well done, lads.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:02 pm

I thought the first yellow was fair enough, there were two blatant attempts to collapse the maul, the second one succeeding a few metres out from their own try line. A metre further and it was penalty try territory, so the yellow I thought was sound.

I don't think you can directly compare the Ulster collapsing of the Cheetahs maul as that was around the ten metre line, not a few metres from the try line.


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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:04 pm

I'm sure once the Cheetahs adapt to NH reffing, they will conquer all.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:07 pm

Cheetahs will first need to add some big name players before they will conquer all
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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:07 pm

The ref won it for Ulster, you heard it here first !!!

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:09 pm

But unfortunately probably not last.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by VinceWLB on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:12 pm

Biltong wrote:The problem is the first yellow came without any warnng off a first maul by Ulster, that effectively killed the Cheetahs as 19 points conceded took the score from 14-8 to 14-27.

When the Ulster replacement prop forward deliberately dropped into the side of a Cheetahmaul nothing was done, the Cheetah mauls contracted only one penalty, should have recieved more.

The scrum of the cheetahs after the knock by Ludic should have contracted a penalty, it didn't

The second yellow was luaghable, cost te Cheetahs another 7 points.

Perhaps this is a case of South African teams having to adapt to how mauls are refereed, as well as scrums.

In this match it cost them dearly.

Cheetahs need bigger guys in the back line, you can't have players gaining another 4-5 yards in the tackle.

They will also have to put more physicality into the breakdown, they were turned over a lot in the tackkle.

Disappointing start for the Cheetahs when they conceded two yellow cards and 26 points in a match where they looked competitive.

Adapt to refereeing, get a bit of beef in the back line, attack the rucks and minmise the unforced errors


Agree with all this, also thought Coetzee clearing out charge should at the very least been looked at. This was a typical match where the weak referee gets easily influenced by the crowds shooting.

I note the score when 15 vs 15 is 19-16 so very disappointing yet very encouraging for the Cheetahs. They should have more beef in their backline when Marais and Venter comes back.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:19 pm

Biltong I imagine you draw up a lot of contracts in your job role!

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by marty2086 on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:33 pm

VinceWLB wrote: This was a typical match where the weak referee gets easily influenced by the crowds shooting.

You mean except for when he refused to look at the Cheetahs try for not one but two possible infringements? Makes loads of sense

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:33 pm

"Agree with all this, also thought Coetzee clearing out charge should at the very least been looked at. This was a typical match where the weak referee gets easily influenced by the crowds shooting"

What a pile of whinging drivel.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Biltong on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:42 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Biltong I imagine you draw up a lot of contracts in your job role!

Not really mate Smile
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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:47 pm

Dunno - was told repeatedly that the Cheetahs were great at scorching tries, but their defence was woeful, and they always scored great tries but give away too much.

When it happens, exactly as supporters that know the Cheetahs predicted, it's dodgy NH reffing.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by marty2086 on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:47 pm

Ulsters scrum and lineout were as bad as ever tonight yet still scored more than 40 points.

Bowe looked reinvigorated and seemed to suit 13, McCloskey looked a bit more solid in defence.

That backrow though, Henry was as good as the other two and a real pest at the breakdown where we seemed a lot smarter than we have done in recent years.

Cooneys passing seemed a little high and low on occasions but he's still getting up to speed

Piutau was a mixed bag, was out of position on a number of occasions and looked like he had lost pace when he got smoked for one of the tries

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by VinceWLB on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:49 pm

Don Alfonso wrote:Dunno - was told repeatedly that the Cheetahs were great at scorching tries, but their defence was woeful, and they always scored great tries but give away too much.

When it happens, exactly as supporters that know the Cheetahs predicted, it's dodgy NH reffing.

You scored most of your tries when Cheetahs were a man down.. from 2 soft yellow cards.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by The Great Aukster on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:54 pm

If the Cheetahs think the ref cost them this game they are in for a very disappointing season.
The real issue was that their sevens players are undoubtedly fast but too lightweight. On heavy pitches their strengths will be further nullified.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by marty2086 on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:55 pm

VinceWLB wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:Dunno - was told repeatedly that the Cheetahs were great at scorching tries, but their defence was woeful, and they always scored great tries but give away too much.

When it happens, exactly as supporters that know the Cheetahs predicted, it's dodgy NH reffing.

You scored most of your tries when Cheetahs were a man down.. from 2 soft yellow cards.

Wind your neck in

The first was for deliberately bringing down a maul that looked set to get over the line and the second was for a deliberate act of foul play which probably would have ended up in a try

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by VinceWLB on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 10:57 pm

marty2086 wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:Dunno - was told repeatedly that the Cheetahs were great at scorching tries, but their defence was woeful, and they always scored great tries but give away too much.

When it happens, exactly as supporters that know the Cheetahs predicted, it's dodgy NH reffing.

You scored most of your tries when Cheetahs were a man down.. from 2 soft yellow cards.

Wind your neck in

The first was for deliberately bringing down a maul that looked set to get over the line and the second was for a deliberate act of foul play which probably would have ended up in a try

Except that the second wasn't even foul play and the first would have been penalty only at a neutral venue.

It was a weak referee, is he the reason Cheetahs lost? No. But scoreline flattered Ulster.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by marty2086 on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 11:00 pm

VinceWLB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:Dunno - was told repeatedly that the Cheetahs were great at scorching tries, but their defence was woeful, and they always scored great tries but give away too much.

When it happens, exactly as supporters that know the Cheetahs predicted, it's dodgy NH reffing.

You scored most of your tries when Cheetahs were a man down.. from 2 soft yellow cards.

Wind your neck in

The first was for deliberately bringing down a maul that looked set to get over the line and the second was for a deliberate act of foul play which probably would have ended up in a try

Except that the second wasn't even foul play and the first would have been penalty only at a neutral venue.

Except it is and has been for years, it falls under a dangerous tackle

You're either a troll or a fool, deliberately bringing down a maul isn't a penalty? picard

Again you ignore a dodgy Cheetahs try that didnt even get a review

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Don Alfonso on Fri 01 Sep 2017, 11:50 pm

VinceWLB wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
VinceWLB wrote:
Don Alfonso wrote:Dunno - was told repeatedly that the Cheetahs were great at scorching tries, but their defence was woeful, and they always scored great tries but give away too much.

When it happens, exactly as supporters that know the Cheetahs predicted, it's dodgy NH reffing.

You scored most of your tries when Cheetahs were a man down.. from 2 soft yellow cards.

Wind your neck in

The first was for deliberately bringing down a maul that looked set to get over the line and the second was for a deliberate act of foul play which probably would have ended up in a try

Except that the second wasn't even foul play and the first would have been penalty only at a neutral venue.

It was a weak referee, is he the reason Cheetahs lost? No. But scoreline flattered Ulster.

How many games are played at a neutral venue? Is that something you thought you'd see a lot of in the Pro14?

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Guest on Sat 02 Sep 2017, 1:52 am

Ok, I'm going against the grain here, but I thought that was a great game to kick off the season. The first half was superb in terms of fast attacking rugby. Not great in defence, but I was loving both sides attacking intent. I knew Cheetahs would be attacking, but Ulster played them at their own game, and won.

Cheetahs will build on this. I loved the way they attacked in the first 3/4, but they panicked from then on, and it cost them points. Lot of talent in the back-line, but need a bit more smarts in the forwards.

Contrary to the ref abuse, I believe he had a good game. Second yellow against the Cheetahs I will need to review, but good overall.

There's a lot to ponder with regards defence, we knew that already, but Ulster were a different team tonight. Nobody has mentioned it, but Peel might just be a legend. I loved some of our attacking play, and see a different side to Ulster. Piutau throw in? That's a different Ulster.

The half-back pairing did fine, considering this is their first outing together.

I was really excited before the match, and thought it was a great game. I loved it. especially the first half.

The Cheetahs brought an exciting game, their backs are lightening, and I fully believe they are going to be real contenders once they get to grips with NH rugby. I loved them. They won't let us down.

Early days for Ulster, but I'm excited about what is possible.

Oh, and the Ulster back-row!!!!

For the critics; sure there's a lot to work on, but there's a lot to be encouraged about. Remember, we have a few key players to come back in.

We will have tougher games, and then we can look at defence.....

Oh, and get Diack out of the 2nd row. Will cost us games.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by The Great Aukster on Sat 02 Sep 2017, 10:08 am

The only problem with taking Diack out is that there would be no lineout forwards in the pack. I thought he carried well and had one of his better games. The lineout was a shambles though, with the timing way off most of the game. Piutau maybe tried the quick throw because that was the only way they were winning it!
Good to see Matty Rea get a run he looked like a clone of Matt McCullough, which is no bad thing.
Liked the midfield of Stu n' Tommy - McCloskey played a more cerebral game than he did last season and Bowe also showed what pace at 13 can do.
It was interesting too how CL moved out in defence to get Stu in their face early and the pacier Christian to deal with the wider threat.

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by Kingshu on Sat 02 Sep 2017, 1:01 pm

Some people like to have a good at the Ulster crowd, remember someone on here said that it was the crowd firing up players fault for when we we're near bottom of fair play league. Crowd didnt change and we were near the top the following year, just someone having a cheap pop at Ulster. Now its a weak ref that the crowd influences? Just another cheap pop at Ulster. Anyway here's what a SA fan had to say about the Ulster crowd last night.

"I can't say enough.. how amazing the Ulster crowd was. Not ONE BOO for the kicker and applauding evem every cheetahs try. We need that kind of respect back in the southern hemisphere from crowds.. since the game turned professional.. booing kickers and hostility that serves no one, has been a bad apple.. we can lose or win.. but the crowds need to show respect and less hatred in the new era, as was the case in amateur days.. northern hemisphere fans proved that you can be passionate about your own team, while being respectful to the visitors also. It's nit gonna change the result if the fans are nasty during the game. Respect Ulster! Your fans are really amazing. SA need more of that and less Pieter van Zyl type fans"

http://mobi.supersport.com/Rugby/pro14/news/170901/Expats_inspire_Ulster_win_over_Cheetahs#comments

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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

Post by George Carlin on Sat 02 Sep 2017, 1:31 pm

Why can't Ulster fans just be happy? I don't understand it.
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Re: KINGSPAN ULSTER v TOYOTA CHEETAHS

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