Cardiff Blues v Edinburgh Rugby, 1 September

by **George Carlin** Wed 23 Aug 2017, 2:03 pm

Cardiff Blues v Edinburgh Rugby, 1 September Edinbo10

Cardiff Blues v Edinburgh Rugby
1 September 2017
KO: 19:35
Cardiff Arms Park

Live on BBC Alba and BBC Wales

Referee: Gorgeous George Clancy (Lobotomy Island)
Assistant Referees: [tbc]
Citing Commissioner: [tbc]
TMO: [tbc]

A. Head to Head

33 Played 33
12 Wins 21
21 Losses 12
0 Draws 0
55 Tries 81

B. Form

2017-02-24
Edinburgh 17 - 18 Cardiff Blues

C. Teams

Cardiff Blues
Cardiff Blues v Edinburgh Rugby, 1 September Roald_10

Cardiff Blues v Edinburgh Rugby, 1 September Roald_10

Matthew Morgan; Alex Cuthbert, Rey Lee-Lo, Willis Halaholo, Aled Summerhill; Jarrod Evans, Lloyd Williams; Rhys Gill, Matthew Rees (capt), Taufa'ao Filise, Seb Davies, Damian Welch, Josh Turnbull, Josh Navidi, Nick Williams.

Replacements: Kirby Myhil, Corey Domachowski, Keiron Assiratti, Macauley Cook, Sion Bennett, Tomos Williams, Steve Shingler, Tom James.

Edinburgh Rugby
Cardiff Blues v Edinburgh Rugby, 1 September Jk-row10

Cardiff Blues v Edinburgh Rugby, 1 September Jk-row10

Blair Kinghorn; Dougie Fife, Chris Dean, Junior Rasolea, Jason Harries; Duncan Weir, Sam Hidalgo-Clyne; Darryl Marfo, Stuart McInally, WP Nel, Anton Bresler, Grant Gilchrist, Jamie Ritchie, John Hardie, Magnus Bradbury (capt).

Replacements: Ross Ford, Michele Rizzo, Simon Berghan, Ben Toolis, Cornell du Preez, Nathan Fowles, Jason Tovey, Glenn Bryce.

by **George Carlin** Thu 24 Aug 2017, 10:08 am

78 views and not one comment?

I'll start: Edinburgh fans smell of despair and stale farts. Discuss.

by **RDW** Thu 24 Aug 2017, 10:13 am

As always I think we have the players to win this one, but this is Edinburgh we're talking about!

Will Cockerill have done enough in pre-season to have these guys battle hardened, mentally tuned and ready to raise their game to a higher level than ever before? I suspect not yet, but hopefully enough that we can have a good crack at the Blues.

by jimbopip Thu 24 Aug 2017, 10:25 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:As always I think we have the players to win this one, but this is Edinburgh we're talking about! Could you just cut and paste this sentence and use it as your header for every subsequent post this season?

Will Cockerill have done enough in pre-season to have these guys battle hardened, mentally tuned and ready to raise their game to a higher level than ever before? I suspect not yet, but hopefully enough that we can have a good crack at the Blues.

This is probably as positive and hopeful as the average Luvvie will be all season.You know, you guys need an inspirational, extrovert, cheery but slightly psychotic captain to keep things bubbling...oh wait Batman's busy on the West coast.

by **RDW** Thu 24 Aug 2017, 10:28 am

Deliberate italics Jimbo or another old man technology fail?

by tigertattie Thu 24 Aug 2017, 10:29 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Deliberate italics Jimbo or another old man technology fail?

He's gone all posh on us!

by EWT Spoons Thu 24 Aug 2017, 10:34 am

I have no faith in our attack given Hodge is still looking after that, so I can't see us scoring many tries, however the players seem far more committed in what they're doing and I think there might actually be a game plan, which is more than could be said in previous years.

I think after the game against Newcastle we'll have a better understanding of how the team is looking to play and who's likely to play.

Not sure we'll win this one, but I think we'll be far more competitive than in previous seasons, and on the off chance that we are in the lead with 10 mins to go I doubt we'll crumble and end up losing. But we need to be in that winning position first, which I think on paper we have the players to be able to do, but the players need to show they can play to their abilities.

I predict it'll be a tight nervy game, with Cardiff winning by a couple of points. Or Edinburgh will be a whirlwind of Red and black and win comfortably. Or we'll get horsed. Really I have no idea, one pre season game under Cockerill with some new lads in the mix is really hard to judge how the first game of our league campaign will go.

by jimbopip Thu 24 Aug 2017, 10:46 am

tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Deliberate italics Jimbo or another old man technology fail?

He's gone all posh on us!

I must take issue with "gone all posh": even strangers on the Saarfend line recognise me as a true intellectual. therefore it behoves me to use italics on occasion.

by XR Thu 24 Aug 2017, 11:46 am

I think the big plus for Cardiff is that our injured players from last season are coming back in to fitness as that knackered us last year. If our starting 15 are all fit I'd want us to win comfortably but that's a big if.

by **George Carlin** Thu 24 Aug 2017, 12:39 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Deliberate italics Jimbo or another old man technology fail?

by tigertattie Thu 24 Aug 2017, 12:52 pm

jimbopip wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Deliberate italics Jimbo or another old man technology fail?

He's gone all posh on us!

I must take issue with "gone all posh": even strangers on the Saarfend line recognise me as a true intellectual. therefore it behoves me to use italics on occasion.

How very effeminate of you Jim

by international198 Fri 25 Aug 2017, 8:15 pm

I'd like to see Rhun Williams start for the Cardiff Blues if he's not injured.

by jimbopip Fri 25 Aug 2017, 8:56 pm

tigertattie wrote:
jimbopip wrote:
tigertattie wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Deliberate italics Jimbo or another old man technology fail?

He's gone all posh on us!

I must take issue with "gone all posh": even strangers on the Saarfend line recognise me as a true intellectual. therefore it behoves me to use italics on occasion.

How very effeminate of you Jim

Lilac ink??? Effeminate???

If you had read of my encounter with Jaymee The Love Rat's knob you would know why I'm considered an intellectual, but only on the Saarfen line.

by **RDW** Tue 29 Aug 2017, 8:56 am

So here's my anticipated Edinburgh 23 for the opener - quite a few unknowns given the strength in depth in some areas (2nd row, back row) but this is what I'd pick given the gametime that players have seen in pre-season (i.e. no Ford, Freaun or Watson yet):

1 Mafu (everyone else is injured!)
2 McInally
3 Berghan
4 Bresler
5 Toolis
6 Bradbury (C)
7 Hardie
8 CDP - needs a big season, hopefully Cockers has lit a firework under him

9 SHC
10 Weir
11 Graham (he's started each pre-season game - deserves a shot)
12 Rasolea (Burleigh unlikely to be fit)
13 Dean
14 Harries
15 Kinghorn

Subs - Rizzo, Cochrane, Nel, Gilchrist, Mata, Fowles, Tovey, Brown

A classic Edinburgh selection - a good pack, bit of an uninspiring backline!

by Hazel Sapling Tue 29 Aug 2017, 10:37 am

I would think Nel starts and would like to see Carmichael (if healthy) ahead of Gilchrist (more of an impact sub). Dean and Ras should swap if Ras has not gotten comfortable at 12, otherwise I agree with that line-up RDW.

by **RDW** Tue 29 Aug 2017, 10:42 am

Yeah that could certainly happen, but Nel is going to be a key player for club and country this season and with Berghan doing well in his absence I can see him being eased into the season gently.

Are you suggesting Ras goes to 13? That would be a big mistake given his defensive positioning is terrible!

I picked Gilchrist as he will hopefully be a man reborn under Cockers - in reality though we could see any number of lock combinations for this game. Charmichael's season finished later due to his SR involvement so he may not be back for another couple of weeks yet.

First choice

Bresler, Toolis

Experienced pros / could become first choice

McKenzie, Gilchrist

Exciting youngsters

Hunter-Hill, Charmichael

Good strength in depth to have in the squad.

by EWT Spoons Tue 29 Aug 2017, 11:06 am

Hunter-Hill has come off the bench in the last couple of games, so is possibly more likely than Carmichael at this stage, who hasn't made an appearance yet. As you say RDW Gilco has seemed like an actual rugby player, or at least he did against Newcastle, which is a marked improvement from last season...and the season before.

In terms of the team for Cardiff, I wouldn't be surprised if it's pretty similar to the team RDW calls out, but Kinghorn was a last min change against Newcastle (as in he was due to start but didn't) so not sure what's happened there. He might not be fit.

Also I think Ritchie might start at 6 with Bradbury at 8 and Hardie at 7. CDW offers a decent option off the bench as he can pretty much cover the entire backrow and hasn't looked like he deserves to start currently.

Berghan looked good against Sale, was named to start against Newcastle, but like Kinghorn, didn't. So again not sure if there is anything going on there injury wise, but McCallum did well enough and is pretty vocal as well (told Bresler where he should be standing during a ruck in the Newcastle game).

Glad this game is on TV as it will be interesting to see how the team perform in a competitive game. Sadly it's up against the Scotland football match, so expect a record low tv audience....even for an Edinburgh game.

by **RDW** Tue 29 Aug 2017, 11:09 am

Good point about back row - I'd also be happy with

6 Ritchie
7 Hardie
8 Bradbury

With CDP on the bench. It will also fit in with all of Cockers' chat about looking to the next generation of players. Ritchie is starting to look more like the real deal now too now that he's filled out even more.

by **George Carlin** Tue 29 Aug 2017, 11:37 am

Out of all the players who deserve to give the fans a huge season, CDP is the man for me.

So much potential. Now SQ. He could be an animal but stagnated slowly under Methuselah Solomons and became a bearded husk of his former self. He could be a club ligind and Scotland's go-to ball carrying test option. The fact that on previous form he almost certainly won't be is something that urinates me off considerably.

by EWT Spoons Tue 29 Aug 2017, 11:44 am

I think the biggest issue with CDP, is he is more than fond of a drink. There are a number of stories around the state of him at random events and the amount he's gone through. I mean if you look at him now, he's only 26, but he looks much much older. Not big Brian old, but still old.

I really hope Cockerill gets him back on track to the player he was pre-injury rather than the player he is now.

by **RDW** Tue 29 Aug 2017, 12:20 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:I think the biggest issue with CDP, is he is more than fond of a drink. There are a number of stories around the state of him at random events and the amount he's gone through. I mean if you look at him now, he's only 26, but he looks much much older. Not big Brian old, but still old.

I really hope Cockerill gets him back on track to the player he was pre-injury rather than the player he is now.

Where did you hear that?

He is a beast but doesn't strike me as being in the best of shape so that may be accurate. Can't see him lasting long in the Cockers regime if this is true.

by Hazel Sapling Tue 29 Aug 2017, 12:22 pm

Ras played 13 for the Force before coming over. He has had a whole pre-season though, so hoping some of the defensive issues and understanding of the system will be fixed.

I would prefer Nel to come in now and get some reps after losing most of last season. Berghan has a consistently poor injury track record so want him eased in and McCallum can take over for the Newport/Treviso games that follow. The 6 games work well; Nel to take Cardiff, Scarlets and Leinster with Berghan/McCallum taking the Dragons and the Italians.

Gilchrist just lacks dynamism and that is why I dislike him on the bench. For me, he starts or he does not get in the squad. The youngsters and Toolis offer more around the park in the last 20-30.

by **RDW** Tue 29 Aug 2017, 12:35 pm

To be fair to Berghan after a bad start to his career he pretty much went the whole of last season without an injury, regularly playing 80 minutes most weeks due to Nel being out all season and our backup tightheads being crap!

by EWT Spoons Tue 29 Aug 2017, 1:23 pm

RDW - I've seen it live...so to speak. Plus I've heard a few more stories of the same ilk from folk that seem to spend time in similar social circles. I might be doing him a disservice and these could be isolated incidents, but he seems to like a vodka.

With regards to Berghan, he's lost a lot of weight, which i think is really helping his game, especially lasting 80+ mins. He still has the problem of being way too tall for a TH, but there is nothing he can do about that.

by **RDW** Tue 29 Aug 2017, 1:33 pm

To be fair he wouldn't be the first rugby player who likes a drink (just ask Glasgow's new captain!) but something has affected is performances over the last 2 seasons and he's not been the same player he was in his first two seasons.

One things for sure is that Cockers has set out what he wants from his players so if CDP wants a future with Edinburgh/Scotland he need to regain his mojo!

by EWT Spoons Tue 29 Aug 2017, 2:22 pm

Yeah no issues with players have a drink, but given his form has dipped quite a lot, it might not be a terrible shout for him to cut back etc

by **George Carlin** Wed 30 Aug 2017, 7:07 am

A thirsty rugby player? In Scotland? Well I never.

The trick is to always be mediocre. That way if you start to hit the sauce nobody really notices.

Not mentioning any Dan Parks specifically. Sorry, 'player'. I meant to say 'player'.

by tigertattie Wed 30 Aug 2017, 10:55 am

George Carlin wrote:A thirsty rugby player? In Scotland? Well I never.

The trick is to always be mediocre. That way if you start to hit the sauce nobody really notices.

Not mentioning any Dan Parks specifically. Sorry, 'player'. I meant to say 'player'.

shameful behavior from a blue badger!

by EWT Spoons Thu 31 Aug 2017, 12:34 pm

Team for Friday announced

1. Marfo
2. McInally
3. Nel
4. Bresler
5. Gilco
6. Ritchie
7. Hardie
8. Bradbury (c)
9. SHC
10. Weir
11. Harries
12. Rasolea
13. Dean
14. Fife
15. Kinghorn

16. Ford
17. Rizo
18. Berghan
19. Toolis
20. CDP
21. Fowles
22. Tovey
23. Bryce, G

by mikey_dragon Thu 31 Aug 2017, 1:03 pm

Cardiff Blues: Matthew Morgan; Alex Cuthbert, Rey Lee-Lo, Willis Halaholo, Aled Summerhill; Jarrod Evans, Lloyd Williams; Rhys Gill, Matthew Rees (capt), Taufa'ao Filise, Seb Davies, Damian Welch, Josh Turnbull, Josh Navidi, Nick Williams.

Replacements: Kirby Myhil, Corey Domachowski, Keiron Assiratti, Macauley Cook, Sion Bennett, Tomos Williams, Steve Shingler, Tom James.

Morgan is no full back as he can't tackle but they're pretty light there. Most of front 5 the wrong side of 30.

by jimbopip Thu 31 Aug 2017, 2:00 pm

I love when Kaahdiff play the MFL. There's nothing like watching both fans getting their excuses for losing in early.

I assume that the Luvvies team sheet counts as an excuse for losing. Again.

by **George Carlin** Thu 31 Aug 2017, 2:09 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Cardiff Blues: Matthew Morgan; Alex Cuthbert, Rey Lee-Lo, Willis Halaholo, Aled Summerhill; Jarrod Evans, Lloyd Williams; Rhys Gill, Matthew Rees (capt), Taufa'ao Filise, Seb Davies, Damian Welch, Josh Turnbull, Josh Navidi, Nick Williams.

Replacements: Kirby Myhil, Corey Domachowski, Keiron Assiratti, Macauley Cook, Sion Bennett, Tomos Williams, Steve Shingler, Tom James.

Morgan is no full back as he can't tackle but they're pretty light there. Most of front 5 the wrong side of 30.

Mikey - I haven't been keeping up with the Blues. What has your pre-season been like and how well have you recruited?

by EWT Spoons Thu 31 Aug 2017, 2:26 pm

jimbopip wrote:I love when Kaahdiff play the MFL. There's nothing like watching both fans getting their excuses for losing in early.

I assume that the Luvvies team sheet counts as an excuse for losing. Again.

Nope, it's actually a pretty decent side. I'm optimistic. But the season hasn't kicked off yet, so that'll be beaten out of me within the first 20 mins of the cardiff game, but currently, optimistic.

by jimbopip Thu 31 Aug 2017, 2:34 pm

Aye. It's the hope that kills you. Hug

by Hazel Sapling Thu 31 Aug 2017, 4:02 pm

Don't know much on the back-up Cardiff props or the starting Cardiff 10. Looks like a good backline otherwise and the pack will put up a good fight especially in the back row. Edinburgh have gone quite small on the flanks vs a large Cardiff back row.

So Fife has returned to the fold? This is a key match for Edinburgh to win. Planning to attend tomorrow to see if Edinburgh have got the basics down/don't make me feel ill.

by mikey_dragon Thu 31 Aug 2017, 4:34 pm

George Carlin wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Cardiff Blues: Matthew Morgan; Alex Cuthbert, Rey Lee-Lo, Willis Halaholo, Aled Summerhill; Jarrod Evans, Lloyd Williams; Rhys Gill, Matthew Rees (capt), Taufa'ao Filise, Seb Davies, Damian Welch, Josh Turnbull, Josh Navidi, Nick Williams.

Replacements: Kirby Myhil, Corey Domachowski, Keiron Assiratti, Macauley Cook, Sion Bennett, Tomos Williams, Steve Shingler, Tom James.

Morgan is no full back as he can't tackle but they're pretty light there. Most of front 5 the wrong side of 30.
Mikey - I haven't been keeping up with the Blues. What has your pre-season been like and how well have you recruited?

Not my team, but they only had two pre-season games and won both. I think the first was against London Scottish and the second against Exeter. Wilson is a good coach, Edwards will have improved their poor defence, but on the whole their squad isn't good enough to threaten. The young players in their team you haven't heard of are very promising.

by TheMildlyFranticLlama Thu 31 Aug 2017, 7:57 pm

The Edinburgh 10-12-13 axis is doing a great job of dampening my optimism for the start of the season, its really very uninspiring. I can't wait for the days of Fruean-Bennett, if we manage to get them turning out together and it coinciding with Tovey having one of his good days we'll be a whole lot more dangerous!

by EWT Spoons Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:18 am

I know it's going to sound like I am on a one man crusade against Weir, but Edinburgh's 10 options are shocking, so anything outside of that is going to look worse than it really is.

Weir - just isn’t much of a player, he’s looked better, but not in an attacking sense, more defensively, which is nice, but you really need your 10 to be able to get the backs moving.
Tovey – is deemed to be worse than Weir……enough said.
Baggot – Young lad who’s untested

That’s it. Why Edinburgh didn’t think that needed to be improved is a mystery.

When you compare it to Glasgow:

Finn – one of the better 10s in world rugby
Hastings – Tipped as the successor to Finn and has looked good in preseason
Horne – Back up 10 to Finn at club and international level and has generally played well when called upon
Jackson – Granted primarily signed as a FB, but naturally at home at 10 and whilst not the best 10 at the club, will do a decent - good job.
Young lad – Forget his name, but to be fair he’s got a lot of competition ahead of him.

Glasgow’s 4th choice 10 is better than Edinburgh’s 1st. Now I get Glasgow are more successful currently, and are going to be more appealing to players, but that disparity in quality at 10 is mental.

by **NeilyBroon** Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:42 am

EWT Spoons wrote:I know it's going to sound like I am on a one man crusade against Weir, but Edinburgh's 10 options are shocking, so anything outside of that is going to look worse than it really is.

Weir - just isn’t much of a player, he’s looked better, but not in an attacking sense, more defensively, which is nice, but you really need your 10 to be able to get the backs moving.
Tovey – is deemed to be worse than Weir……enough said.
Baggot – Young lad who’s untested

That’s it. Why Edinburgh didn’t think that needed to be improved is a mystery.

When you compare it to Glasgow:

Finn – one of the better 10s in world rugby
Hastings – Tipped as the successor to Finn and has looked good in preseason
Horne – Back up 10 to Finn at club and international level and has generally played well when called upon
Jackson – Granted primarily signed as a FB, but naturally at home at 10 and whilst not the best 10 at the club, will do a decent - good job.
Young lad – Forget his name, but to be fair he’s got a lot of competition ahead of him.

Glasgow’s 4th choice 10 is better than Edinburgh’s 1st. Now I get Glasgow are more successful currently, and are going to be more appealing to players, but that disparity in quality at 10 is mental.

Found a highlights reel of Baggott. He looks like he's got promise for sure, some lovely footballing skills. Tbf if Edinburgh can grind out a few wins with Weir and Tovey to start then it'll build confidence and allow the young guys to slot in to an okay team rather than one that accepts defeat week in week out. Inspiring? No. But remember how Glasgow used to play when they were rebuilding under Lineen, it took a season of them grinding out close wins before they got the confidence to develop their own brand of rugby and bring more youngsters in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mM3hBhaQqtw

by EWT Spoons Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:19 am

I agree that we going to be playing to grind out wins rather than anything flash, I was just pointing out that this is a massive weakness in the team that could and should have been addressed.

Baggot came on against Sale and looked better than anything else we have currently, so would be happy to see him get a few games, but you’re right, it’s not the time yet, until confidence is better and he’s able to come into a winning team rather than a team who on the back of last season were terrible.

However, my point was just that we should have someone ahead of Baggot who is actually capable and someone who he can learn from, rather than the two we currently have.

by **RDW** Fri 01 Sep 2017, 7:53 pm

Anyone watching?

by mikey_dragon Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:00 pm

Blues are crap. Edinburgh look a lot more organised.

by tigertattie Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:05 pm

Referee is useless. Clownshoes doing his usual clowning around

by tigertattie Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:14 pm

Is clancy even watching this game?

by mikey_dragon Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:22 pm

I switched over to Ulster vs Cheetahs and it's a much better game.

by tigertattie Fri 01 Sep 2017, 8:54 pm

Even the Cardiff bench have been offside all night!

by **RDW** Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:25 pm

Huge win Edinburgh!

by mikey_dragon Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:30 pm

You can see the difference Cockers has brought already. Worrying times for Welsh teams when our opposition are constantly strengthening their squads and coaching staff when we aren't.

by Welly Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:33 pm

Sounds like a cockers type of game, winning off the forwards and defence.

by Manky-Flanker Fri 01 Sep 2017, 9:37 pm

Great start to the season for Edinburgh. Haven't won this fixture in a good few years and yet they did tonight while leaving a few tries out there.

Definitely a confidence booster for the squad.

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