Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

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Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 8:37 pm

This is a farce, I know I will get ripped apart for this, but it is becoming a joke, what I have just seen in this first half between Leinster and Cardiff is a joke. How is Isa Nacewa still on the field, then going down like he has just been shot to milk a pen on half time. FFS

Also, do not get me started with the scrum, the young Cardiff boy Kieron Assirati is doing a number on Cain Healy yet the ref is letting Cain Healy get away with murder.

2017, Pro14, nothing changes. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, onto the second half. picard

Oh, just to edit, I forgot to mention Kearnys shoulder tackle when Cardiff were breaking through that was left unpunished by both Brace and Fitzgibbon. Whate a joke. picard

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 8:58 pm

"Also, do not get me started with the scrum, the young Cardiff boy Kieron Assirati is doing a number on Cain Healy"

Laugh

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:04 pm

So you think the flying clothes line on Cuthbert was not a red ?

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:06 pm

I've only commented on your suggestion that Healy was being taken apart by Assirati, so be careful about the insinuations you make.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:15 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:I've only commented on your suggestion that Healy was being taken apart by Assirati, so be careful about the insinuations you make.

Show me where I have said taken apart. Rolling Eyes

What a pleb....

I said he is doing a number on him, Cain Healy did not bind all night when he was on. He was struggling, but he was getting away with it.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:16 pm

Also that non pen for driving beyond the maul when Cardiff were finally putting pressure on the Leinster line, what a joke.

Like I said, nothing changes.

No wonder this league will always struggle with non impartial reffing like this.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:19 pm

'Doing a number' or 'Taking apart' talk about splitting hairs.

"No wonder this league will always struggle with non impartial reffing like this."

It is moving on, fans of teams that lose to Edinburgh at home thinking they are hard done by doesn't change that.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Artful_Dodger on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:21 pm

Wonderful try, demolition complete.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:28 pm

Even a ref can't muster up a 37-9 demolition if he was biased enough to do so. You really don't understand how much Munster men hate Leinster do you LD.
Brace had a good game as it happens. There was nothing about Nacewa's tackle that deserved a red and do you really think Healy had a number done on him? Really?

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:47 pm

A fan thinks the ref is being biased against their team... in other news the sky is blue.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 9:52 pm

I didn't think that Isa challenge was worthy of a red but i do say that about most of these grey area things. Cardiff are in crisis if these first two matches are anything to go by - why weren't more signings made in the summer?

Fair comments LD but you could have at least moaned about something worthwhile like the SRU TMO disallowing a perfectly good try after it had been awarded in the Edinburgh-Dragons game...

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by RiscaGame on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 10:17 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote: A fan thinks the ref is being biased against their team... in other news the sky is blue.

I can't see what Lord is saying, but he's not a Blues fan.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 12:25 am

Looks like someone didn't get their giro this week

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by profitius on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 1:33 am

Heres an interesting fact. Brace is from CARDIFF!
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 8:41 am

profitius wrote:Heres an interesting fact. Brace is from CARDIFF!

He is employed by the IRFU. OK

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by lostinwales on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 9:23 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote: A fan thinks the ref is being biased against their team... in other news the sky is blue.

Only occasionally

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 9:35 am

I have to say, I thought that Isa deserved a red for that. Although the intent/consequences aren't supposed to come into it, I think the immediate reaction of both Nacewa and Cuthbert may have been what decided the colour of the card. I thought it was good from both of them.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Cardiff Dave on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 11:11 am

LordDowlais wrote:
profitius wrote:Heres an interesting fact. Brace is from CARDIFF!

He is employed by the IRFU. OK

Shush mun, ewe mischief-maker.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pot Hale on Sat 09 Sep 2017, 1:36 pm

Cardiff Dave wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
profitius wrote:Heres an interesting fact. Brace is from CARDIFF!

He is employed by the IRFU. OK

Shush mun, ewe mischief-maker.

He's Welsh-born?

So Welsh ref reffing a Welsh team. No wonder they lost.
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by profitius on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 1:50 pm

Pro14 refs are crap, super rugby refs are crap, French refs are crap, international refs are crap. That's what I've been listening to for ages now.


If you have a problem with refs and tend to view everything as a conspiracy then you should stop watching rugby for your own health.


Keep in mind.
Rugby refs have to make many subjective calls. In any ruck there could be numerous technical offences that a ref could penalise. It's literally impossible for a rugby ref to be 100% right.


Most reasonable people just want to see both sides reffed equally. Most of the time that's the case.


Home teams will get most of the decisions due to psychological reasons. If a crowd roars for something then it's highlighting the incident for the ref.


There are some bad refs but that has more to do with letting the game flow. You need a feel for the game rather than be a robot who penalises every little wrong thing. Nigel Owens is good at that and most southern hemisphere refs are encouraged to try and let the game flow.


Don't forget that everyone is biased in their own way on how they see the game. Fans of a team can usually only see the things the opposition do wrong and get angry. Their own team can do no wrong.
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by TJ on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 5:59 pm

Well said profitius

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 6:02 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
profitius wrote:Heres an interesting fact. Brace is from CARDIFF!

He is employed by the IRFU. OK

Hes employed by Munster

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 8:03 am

I thought we were supposed to be having neutral TMO's as well, but there was an Irish TMO on Friday night:-

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/guinness-pro12-introduce-neutral-television-11789218

How nothing was given to Kearny for his shoulder tackle after the TMO looked at it was scandalous, not even a penalty for being reckless, and then that joke of a yellow for Isa Nacewa, which should have been red.

I'm sorry, but this cannot be all down to poor officiating, not when both the ref and the TMO are picking the bones out of it and deciding between themselves what should be happening, if that flying clothes line was the other way around, the crowd would have been baying for blood, and both ref and TMO would have given a red.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 8:06 am

profitius wrote:There are some bad refs but that has more to do with letting the game flow. You need a feel for the game rather than be a robot who penalises every little wrong thing. Nigel Owens is good at that and most southern hemisphere refs are encouraged to try and let the game flow.

Funny you should say this, as Brace did not let Cardiff get away with anything on Friday night, yet Leinster were given a free reign at the breakdown, hence Cronin's run in after Leinster had hands in the ruck, yet when Cardiff were pushing Leinster's try line, he pinged Cardiff for driving beyond the ruck, something that he let Leinster do all game, now if you want a ref to let the game flow, fine, but let it flow for both teams.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by TJ on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 8:31 am

mikey_dragon wrote:

Fair comments LD but you could have at least moaned about something worthwhile like the SRU TMO disallowing a perfectly good try after it had been awarded in the Edinburgh-Dragons game...

Get over it., Right decision - the player was clearly in touch even if only just - the pic on the match thread shows it.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 8:32 am

Lord Dowlais, incoherent ranting, huffing and puffing, nothing changes.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by mikey_dragon on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 8:54 am

TJ wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:

Fair comments LD but you could have at least moaned about something worthwhile like the SRU TMO disallowing a perfectly good try after it had been awarded in the Edinburgh-Dragons game...

Get over it.,  Right decision - the player was clearly in touch even if only just - the pic on the match thread shows it.

Wrong decision, clearly, and the ref had even awarded it. The SRU employee did his utmost to disallow it. Although it came at a crucial moment in the game where Dragons had all the momentum I don't blame that for the loss and I am over it. I do feel a bit of perspective is needed from the Craig Joubert brigade though, because if this happened to a Scottish team and they lost they would be moaning about it for the rest of the season!

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 8:55 am

Irish supporters, denial, heads in the sand, no ability to see what is going on in front of their own eyes, no ability to take on board anybody who is not Irish opinions, nothing changes.

See, I can do that as well. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:09 am

LordDowlais wrote:Irish supporters, denial, heads in the sand, no ability to see what is going on in front of their own eyes, no ability to take on board anybody who is not Irish opinions, nothing changes.

See, I can do that as well. Rolling Eyes

No just dismiss idiotic moans like yours which have a glaring factual inaccuracy in them

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:15 am

marty2086 wrote:No just dismiss idiotic moans like yours which have a glaring factual inaccuracy in them

So you think a flying clothes line around the neck is not worthy of a red card then ?

So you think that a tackle leading with your shoulder without using your arms does not worthy a penalty then ?

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by eirebilly on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:17 am

I have seen the incidents and yes, Isa could have seen red. I actually think that it was handled quite well on the field.

What is annoying me, all teams seem to have their culprits, is the soccer style play acting that is coming into the game more and more. This really needs to be stamped out.
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:25 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:No just dismiss idiotic moans like yours which have a glaring factual inaccuracy in them

So you think a flying clothes line around the neck is not worthy of a red card then ?

So you think that a tackle leading with your shoulder without using your arms does not worthy a penalty then ?

Well it wasn't a flying clothesline so again you're wrong on something

I must have missed the 2nd tackle you're talking about and Ive seen plenty of no arms tackles go unpunished including one by the Cheetahs in round 1 with the same ref

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:27 am

eirebilly wrote:What is annoying me, all teams seem to have their culprits, is the soccer style play acting that is coming into the game more and more. This really needs to be stamped out.

Like when the player you said should have received a red went down as if he had been shot just before half time to milk a pen. You would have thought he would have shown a bit more humility after how Cuthbert acted after he was clothes lined and just got back up.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:28 am

LordDowlais wrote:
eirebilly wrote:What is annoying me, all teams seem to have their culprits, is the soccer style play acting that is coming into the game more and more. This really needs to be stamped out.

Like when the player you said should have received a red went down as if he had been shot just before half time to milk a pen. You would have thought he would have shown a bit more humility after how Cuthbert acted after he was clothes lined and just got back up.

LD, reading really isn't a strong point of yours, bill says could not should

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by eirebilly on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:30 am

LordDowlais wrote:
eirebilly wrote:What is annoying me, all teams seem to have their culprits, is the soccer style play acting that is coming into the game more and more. This really needs to be stamped out.

Like when the player you said should have received a red went down as if he had been shot just before half time to milk a pen. You would have thought he would have shown a bit more humility after how Cuthbert acted after he was clothes lined and just got back up.

I did not say he 'should have' I said he could have, slight difference. I have seen them given and I have seen them not given. The consistency of refereeing these decisions is something to be looked at.

I think it must be very difficult to be a ref as you will never get all decisions right but do believe that more consistency should be applied.
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:36 am

eirebilly wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
eirebilly wrote:What is annoying me, all teams seem to have their culprits, is the soccer style play acting that is coming into the game more and more. This really needs to be stamped out.

Like when the player you said should have received a red went down as if he had been shot just before half time to milk a pen. You would have thought he would have shown a bit more humility after how Cuthbert acted after he was clothes lined and just got back up.

I did not say he 'should have' I said he could have, slight difference. I have seen them given and I have seen them not given. The consistency of refereeing these decisions is something to be looked at.

I think it must be very difficult to be a ref as you will never get all decisions right but do believe that more consistency should be applied.

billy surely it's a case of reffing each decisions on its merits rather than the optics?

Just saying its a high clothesline like tackle doesn't mean its a red, in this case I think it was a case of Nacewa being done by Cuthberts steps and reaching to tackle, he actually got the ball initially and his arm ended up riding higher because of both players momentum. If Im not mistaken, WR have said in the past if the tackler gets the ball and the hand/arm comes higher then its at most a yellow?

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:39 am

It's an all new Pro14 but some things will never change......or should I say people Wink

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:41 am

This is what LD sees when he sees the Nacewa tackle


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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:44 am

marty2086 wrote:Well it wasn't a flying clothesline so again you're wrong on something

Are you for real ? Seriously ?

You need to watch it again, Isa Nacewa's feet left the ground and he jumped at Cuthbert and straight armed him around the throat.

marty2086 wrote:I must have missed the 2nd tackle you're talking about

How convenient. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:47 am

marty2086 wrote:LD, reading really isn't a strong point of yours

reverting to type, again. picard

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:48 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Well it wasn't a flying clothesline so again you're wrong on something

Are you for real ? Seriously ?

You need to watch it again, Isa Nacewa's feet left the ground and he jumped at Cuthbert and straight armed him around the throat.

picard You might want to try again you deluded fool, if Nacewa jumped into then so did Cuthbert. They both left their feet due to the contact Rolling Eyes

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:I must have missed the 2nd tackle you're talking about

How convenient. Rolling Eyes

Excuse me for watching the game while working on my laptop, in future I will give games my undivided attention so its easier to dismiss your ludicrous, inane and seemingly angry ramblings

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:49 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:LD, reading really isn't a strong point of yours

reverting to type, again. picard

Yes you are, deliberately changing what people say to fit your argument

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Griff on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:49 am

Pete330v2 wrote:It's an all new Pro14 but some things will never change......or should I say people Wink


Quite!

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:51 am

marty2086 wrote:You might want to try again you deluded fool

Seriously, is there any need for this ?

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by eirebilly on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:52 am

marty, I am just saying that I have seen tackles like that be red carded and also yellow carded.

There is a consistency issue in refereeing, not just in this comp but in all competitions. Unfortunately I cannot see this ever being resolved as it will always be down to individual referee on field decisions.

I do not want more TMO involvement in games but I would like to see a better review system after matches that not only used to educate referee's better but also retrospectively punish players for deliberate play acting. That would see a step in the right direction.
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:54 am

marty2086 wrote:Yes you are, deliberately changing what people say to fit your argument

Firstly, I am not arguing with anyone, it's seems that it is you who is intent on causing an argument.

Secondly, I have not changed anything, I have quoted you word for word.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 9:59 am

eirebilly wrote:marty, I am just saying that I have seen tackles like that be red carded and also yellow carded.

There is a consistency issue in refereeing, not just in this comp but in all competitions. Unfortunately I cannot see this ever being resolved as it will always be down to individual referee on field decisions.

I do not want more TMO involvement in games but I would like to see a better review system after matches that not only used to educate referee's better but also retrospectively punish players for deliberate play acting. That would see a step in the right direction.

I don't disagree, my point being that it was the correct decision for me and not the awful tackle some people are making it out to be. Like I said, what I seen of it, Nacewa got the ball initially but the way things played out it ended up going higher. That falls under a yellow for me and what I understand the directives to be, I don't recall anyone getting a red after they have got the ball initially, maybe you have an example.

The way the game is structured with laws, everything is open to interpretation. Players have been retroactively punished for play acting but Nacewas behaviour isn't nice but not punishable to me because like I said, it's open to interpretation and there was contact and who's to say the reaction wasn't natural?

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 10:01 am

LordDowlais wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Yes you are, deliberately changing what people say to fit your argument

Firstly, I am not arguing with anyone, it's seems that it is you who is intent on causing an argument.

Secondly, I have not changed anything, I have quoted you word for word.

Bless, you really are that slow

I meant you were putting forward an argument, as in your version Rolling Eyes

I also never said me, as previously stated you changed what billy said to fit your own argument little fairytale

Nap time I think for you LD

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by eirebilly on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 10:04 am

I am not singling out Nacewa for play acting in that game, I meant in general for all teams. I have seen in creeping more and more into the game and it is frustrating me. All teams seem to have 1/2 players that consistently do this. Some players have received warning retrospectively over play acting but I do not believe that it is done enough. I would like to see a much harder stance on it.

I have seen a few red cards for tackles almost exactly the sae as Nacewa's, do not have you tube at the moment to provide examples but I have seen the given. If I get you tube later I will look up a few later and post.
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 11 Sep 2017, 10:11 am

There was one in an European game a French team against Dan Biggar, I think it was Montpellier, but a red card was given. About two seasons ago.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

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