Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

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Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 08 Sep 2017, 8:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

This is a farce, I know I will get ripped apart for this, but it is becoming a joke, what I have just seen in this first half between Leinster and Cardiff is a joke. How is Isa Nacewa still on the field, then going down like he has just been shot to milk a pen on half time. FFS

Also, do not get me started with the scrum, the young Cardiff boy Kieron Assirati is doing a number on Cain Healy yet the ref is letting Cain Healy get away with murder.

2017, Pro14, nothing changes. Rolling Eyes

Anyway, onto the second half. picard

Oh, just to edit, I forgot to mention Kearnys shoulder tackle when Cardiff were breaking through that was left unpunished by both Brace and Fitzgibbon. Whate a joke. picard

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 11:52 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:I've said before that some people are influenced by commentators quite a lot. If you're listening to someone all game repeat an opinion that your side is getting wrongly pinged sometimes it sticks.

I think Scrum V has a lot to answer for when it comes to (some) fans' opinion of the league, other teams in it, and the officials. Jiffy is the main perpetrator, but they're so quick to jump on a mistake by a ref / player from a 'lesser' side and talk about it in a 'here we go again' kind of way, that it would be understandable if some viewers view the league in a dim light. They really couldn't do a worse job of selling the league at times.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:18 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I've said before that some people are influenced by commentators quite a lot. If you're listening to someone all game repeat an opinion that your side is getting wrongly pinged sometimes it sticks.

I think Scrum V has a lot to answer for when it comes to (some) fans' opinion of the league, other teams in it, and the officials. Jiffy is the main perpetrator, but they're so quick to jump on a mistake by a ref / player from a 'lesser' side and talk about it in a 'here we go again' kind of way, that it would be understandable if some viewers view the league in a dim light. They really couldn't do a worse job of selling the league at times.

Why is it their job to "sell" their league? That's the Pro14s job, not a rugby talk show's job.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:22 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I've said before that some people are influenced by commentators quite a lot. If you're listening to someone all game repeat an opinion that your side is getting wrongly pinged sometimes it sticks.

I think Scrum V has a lot to answer for when it comes to (some) fans' opinion of the league, other teams in it, and the officials. Jiffy is the main perpetrator, but they're so quick to jump on a mistake by a ref / player from a 'lesser' side and talk about it in a 'here we go again' kind of way, that it would be understandable if some viewers view the league in a dim light. They really couldn't do a worse job of selling the league at times.

Why is it their job to "sell" their league? That's the Pro14s job, not a rugby talk show's job.

Because they are a stakeholder in the league and it's hardly a good idea dumping on it when you are relying on it to draw viewers

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:25 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I've said before that some people are influenced by commentators quite a lot. If you're listening to someone all game repeat an opinion that your side is getting wrongly pinged sometimes it sticks.

I think Scrum V has a lot to answer for when it comes to (some) fans' opinion of the league, other teams in it, and the officials. Jiffy is the main perpetrator, but they're so quick to jump on a mistake by a ref / player from a 'lesser' side and talk about it in a 'here we go again' kind of way, that it would be understandable if some viewers view the league in a dim light. They really couldn't do a worse job of selling the league at times.

Why is it their job to "sell" their league? That's the Pro14s job, not a rugby talk show's job.

I didn't actually say it's their job to sell it. But clearly they have an interest in viewers wanting to tune in week after week.

I'm not saying they should ignore errors or say something's amazing when it's not, but dear God, if it's such a chore for Jiffy to sit in on a game, then maybe he should give the microphone to someone else.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:30 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I didn't actually say it's their job to sell it. But clearly they have an interest in viewers wanting to tune in week after week.

Perhaps they are pandering to what the majority of their viewers are thinking. Or perhaps it could be that they are witnessing the exact same things as many others are, and speaking about it, low and behold, on a talk show.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:31 pm

Live commentary isn't a talk show.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by eirebilly on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:34 pm

Its the nature of the beast, people will always focus on the negative and disappointing aspects of everything. I used to think that was solely down to the Irish but now it seems its world wide Very Happy
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pete330v2 on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:39 pm

"Just because someone else gets it just as wrong as you doesn't make it right".
Pete330 Sept'17

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:41 pm

They are supposed to give their impartial views. If they rag on the league all the time then that's because they think the league is at a standard that deserves to be ragged on all the time. They wouldn't just slate it because they were bored.

Maybe if more than 500 people turned up to see a game they would get more excited by it.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by eirebilly on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:43 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:They are supposed to give their impartial views. If they rag on the league all the time then that's because they think the league is at a standard that deserves to be ragged on all the time. They wouldn't just slate it because they were bored.

Maybe if more than 500 people turned up to see a game they would get more excited by it.

Shocked

Ever been to a Pro-14 game in Ireland?
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by RugbyFan100 on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:45 pm

eirebilly wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:They are supposed to give their impartial views. If they rag on the league all the time then that's because they think the league is at a standard that deserves to be ragged on all the time. They wouldn't just slate it because they were bored.

Maybe if more than 500 people turned up to see a game they would get more excited by it.

Shocked

Ever been to a Pro-14 game in Ireland?

I think I worded that poorly. What I should have said was: In a league where less than 500 turned up to a game, it is bound to raise questions from those that are paid to give opinions on it.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:46 pm

I'll have to confess I've not heard that much on scrum v but when Davies and williams, and hell guscott are on the main bbc they don't demonstrate anything other than cheer leading for thir favourites so I'd err on the side that they are.only calling what they'd like to see as they do in internationals.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:52 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:They are supposed to give their impartial views. If they rag on the league all the time then that's because they think the league is at a standard that deserves to be ragged on all the time. They wouldn't just slate it because they were bored.

Maybe if more than 500 people turned up to see a game they would get more excited by it.

Shocked

Ever been to a Pro-14 game in Ireland?

I think I worded that poorly. What I should have said was:  In a league where less than 500 turned up to a game, it is bound to raise questions from those that are paid to give opinions on it.

Yeah because that makes loads more sense, so one poorly attended game is relevant to commentators slating the league? Erm

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by eirebilly on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 12:57 pm

On the point of referee's. I do not think that the standard is any better or worse than it always has been. The introduction of all these new camera angles and TMO's probably highlights more mistakes that were previously missed.

Teams used to know who was refereeing them, knew the individual irks of the referee and trained to play for their individual refereeing style (lets face it, not all referees are exactly the same). That used to be as big a training aspect as the approach towards an opposing team.

Referees frustrated me as a player and now as a spectator but it is far from being an easy job at the top level, especially now as a certain amount of 'soccer style' simulations are becoming far too normal in todays game. Looking in your direction James Hook after Saturdays performance thumbsup
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 4:47 pm

LordDowlais wrote:The Irish are totally one eye'd.

picard picard picard

"The Irish"

Laugh clap

Hey Griff! Here's a good opportunity for you to express your outrage at stereotyping the posters of a specific nation. This time, it's actually legitimate.


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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 4:56 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I didn't actually say it's their job to sell it. But clearly they have an interest in viewers wanting to tune in week after week.

Perhaps they are pandering to what the majority of their viewers are thinking. Or perhaps it could be that they are witnessing the exact same things as many others are, and speaking about it, low and behold, on a talk show.

I'm assuming they saw that a Welsh region won the league last year? Or do you think that there was a rat in the system last season who sought to prevent another Irish victory?

Flip me, I just realised something. Bernard Jackson, an Irishman, is in charge of the Dragons. They control everything!

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by eirebilly on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 5:50 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The Irish are totally one eye'd.

picard picard picard

"The Irish"

Laugh  clap

Hey Griff! Here's a good opportunity for you to express your outrage at stereotyping the posters of a specific nation. This time, it's actually legitimate.



He is half right, its ye whinging feckers in the north giving us free staters a bad name Whistle

Very Happy
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by profitius on Mon 18 Sep 2017, 7:21 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I didn't actually say it's their job to sell it. But clearly they have an interest in viewers wanting to tune in week after week.

Perhaps they are pandering to what the majority of their viewers are thinking. Or perhaps it could be that they are witnessing the exact same things as many others are, and speaking about it, low and behold, on a talk show.

I'm assuming they saw that a Welsh region won the league last year? Or do you think that there was a rat in the system last season who sought to prevent another Irish victory?

Flip me, I just realised something. Bernard Jackson, an Irishman, is in charge of the Dragons. They control everything!


Bradley and O'Shea in Italy. That's an IRFU masterplan to give us easier 6 nations matches. thumbsup
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 7:59 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The Irish are totally one eye'd.

picard picard picard

"The Irish"

Laugh  clap

Hey Griff! Here's a good opportunity for you to express your outrage at stereotyping the posters of a specific nation. This time, it's actually legitimate.


I was waiting for this to get picked. Very Happy

Hook, line and sinker.

See it's not nice when it is done is it ? I have been accused on this thread of being that idiot at Cardiff on Saturday night, I was not even in Cardiff on Saturday. Rolling Eyes

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Guest on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 8:44 am

LordDowlais wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:The Irish are totally one eye'd.

picard picard picard

"The Irish"

Laugh  clap

Hey Griff! Here's a good opportunity for you to express your outrage at stereotyping the posters of a specific nation. This time, it's actually legitimate.


I was waiting for this to get picked. Very Happy

Hook, line and sinker.

See it's not nice when it is done is it ? I have been accused on this thread of being that idiot at Cardiff on Saturday night, I was not even in Cardiff on Saturday. Rolling Eyes


You were at the Pro14 Headquarters in Dublin demanding answers!

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 9:13 am

Nope, I was down in Pontypridd during the afternoon, and I was back in Merthyr watching the game on S4C in the club in the evening, but thanks for your concern. OK

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 11:02 am

LordDowlais wrote:Nope, I was down in Pontypridd during the afternoon, and I was back in Merthyr watching the game on S4C in the club in the evening, but thanks for your concern. OK

Did they all cheer when Shingler missed that late kick? Whistle

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 11:18 am

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Nope, I was down in Pontypridd during the afternoon, and I was back in Merthyr watching the game on S4C in the club in the evening, but thanks for your concern. OK

Did they all cheer when Shingler missed that late kick? Whistle

Or did they blame the Irish?

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 11:29 am

marty2086 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Nope, I was down in Pontypridd during the afternoon, and I was back in Merthyr watching the game on S4C in the club in the evening, but thanks for your concern. OK

Did they all cheer when Shingler missed that late kick? Whistle

Or did they blame the Irish?

They used an Irish ref in Pontypridd? Run

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Guest on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:06 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Nope, I was down in Pontypridd during the afternoon, and I was back in Merthyr watching the game on S4C in the club in the evening, but thanks for your concern. OK

Did they all cheer when Shingler missed that late kick? Whistle

Or did they blame the Irish?

They used an Irish ref in Pontypridd? Run


They'd been given an Irish lawnmower to use (O'Flymo) that was set to cut the grass all wrong, and led to the missed kick.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:07 pm

Yeah, on the artificial surface.


picard

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:12 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Yeah, on the artificial surface.


picard

Hence the problems Whistle

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:14 pm

Well if people are going to take the p!ss, which I do not mind by the way, I am all for banter, lets not make a d!ckhead out of yourself whilst doing so. Very Happy

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:16 pm

Some people do that without the banter thumbsup

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Guest on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:17 pm

marty2086 wrote:Some people do that without the banter thumbsup

Laugh

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:18 pm

Oof!!!!! Gutpunch

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Guest on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:36 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Well if people are going to take the p!ss, which I do not mind by the way, I am all for banter, lets not make a d!ckhead out of yourself whilst doing so. Very Happy


That's rich coming from the guy that starting this thread!

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:37 pm

Grif, the level of your banter is to just insult.

Enough said. picard

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:42 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Grif, the level of your banter is to just insult.

Enough said. picard

Considering you've basically set up a thread to call people cheats and not are calling people d!ckheads, it's again a bit rich

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:44 pm

At least I am not accusing people of being a scumbag from Cardiff.

Thankfully, the MODS have seen sense and deleted all of the derogatory remarks that were posted. OK

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by marty2086 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 12:45 pm

LordDowlais wrote:At least I am not accusing people of being a scumbag from Cardiff.

Thankfully, the MODS have seen sense and deleted all of the derogatory remarks that were posted. OK

Now your calling people from Cardiff scumbags? Rolling Eyes

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by eirebilly on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 1:06 pm

Jaysus lads, tighten up FFS.
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 1:33 pm

From his behavior he was obviously a scumbag and he was wearing a Cardiff shirt so maybe I was clutching at straws. Perhaps he was on holiday from Fife and was simply getting into the spirit of things.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pot Hale on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 2:27 pm

Griff wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Nope, I was down in Pontypridd during the afternoon, and I was back in Merthyr watching the game on S4C in the club in the evening, but thanks for your concern. OK

Did they all cheer when Shingler missed that late kick? Whistle

Or did they blame the Irish?

They used an Irish ref in Pontypridd? Run


They'd been given an Irish lawnmower to use (O'Flymo) that was set to cut the grass all wrong, and led to the missed kick.  

As a total distraction to this illuminating debate on the Irish element in the PRO14, or the PRO'14 as some like to call it, O' is actually an English abbreviation where the apostrophe is used instead of 'f'. Thus O' generally means of and fails as an attempt to make a name Irish.

Mc or Mac means 'son' in Irish and Scots Gaelic. Hence Finbarr Mac Domhnaill is Finbarr son of Domhnal. It is a patronymic.
Ó is almost exclusively Irish and means 'from' or 'descended from'.
Thus Finbarr Ó Domhnall is Finbarr descended from the Domhnall clan.

That's just the men. Da wimmin gets even trickier.



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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 2:35 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:From his behavior he was obviously a scumbag and he was wearing a Cardiff shirt so maybe I was clutching at straws. Perhaps he was on holiday from Fife and was simply getting into the spirit of things.

Whatever, but he wasn't me. OK

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by LordDowlais on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 2:39 pm

Pot Hale wrote:Mc or Mac means 'son' in Irish and Scots Gaelic. Hence Finbarr Mac Domhnaill is Finbarr son of Domhnal. It is a patronymic.
Ó is almost exclusively Irish and means 'from' or 'descended from'.
Thus Finbarr Ó Domhnall is Finbarr descended from the Domhnall clan.

That's just the men. Da wimmin gets even trickier.

Also, do you even know, that there is no such thing as a Celt ?

Celt is a word the Romans used for a race of barbaric people who needed to be tamed/ruled. Shocked

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Scottrf on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 3:24 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Mc or Mac means 'son' in Irish and Scots Gaelic. Hence Finbarr Mac Domhnaill is Finbarr son of Domhnal. It is a patronymic.
Ó is almost exclusively Irish and means 'from' or 'descended from'.
Thus Finbarr Ó Domhnall is Finbarr descended from the Domhnall clan.

That's just the men. Da wimmin gets even trickier.

Also, do you even know, that there is no such thing as a Celt ?

Celt is a word the Romans used for a race of barbaric people who needed to be tamed/ruled. Shocked
If the shoe fits.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 3:30 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:From his behavior he was obviously a scumbag and he was wearing a Cardiff shirt so maybe I was clutching at straws. Perhaps he was on holiday from Fife and was simply getting into the spirit of things.

Whatever, but he wasn't me. OK

Pics or it's not true

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Guest on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 3:31 pm

The Pot Hale wrote:
Griff wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Nope, I was down in Pontypridd during the afternoon, and I was back in Merthyr watching the game on S4C in the club in the evening, but thanks for your concern. OK

Did they all cheer when Shingler missed that late kick? Whistle

Or did they blame the Irish?

They used an Irish ref in Pontypridd? Run


They'd been given an Irish lawnmower to use (O'Flymo) that was set to cut the grass all wrong, and led to the missed kick.  

As a total distraction to this illuminating debate on the Irish element in the PRO14, or the PRO'14 as some like to call it, O' is actually an English abbreviation where the apostrophe is used instead of 'f'.   Thus O' generally means of and fails as an attempt to make a name Irish.  

Mc or Mac means 'son' in Irish and Scots Gaelic.   Hence Finbarr Mac Domhnaill is Finbarr son of Domhnal.  It is a patronymic.  
Ó is almost exclusively Irish and means 'from' or 'descended from'.  
Thus Finbarr Ó Domhnall is Finbarr descended from the Domhnall clan.  

That's just the men.  Da wimmin gets even trickier.  




Thanks Pot. Yes I was aware of those naming conventions, for want of a better term. O'Flymo was my attempt at humour. Apologies if you were offended.

To continue your post, the Anglicised Welsh version of this (in terms of 'son of') is to add an 's' to the end. So names such as Jones means 'son of John', Edwards = son of Edward, Williams = Son of a William, etc. The English go the whole hog obviously and have Williamson, Johnson, etc. In Welsh language the tradition is to use 'ap' to denote 'of'. Rhys ap Gruffyd would be Rhys son of Gruffyd, or anglecised it would probably be Rhys Griffiths. Newport RFC have/had a player recently named Llywarch ap Myrddin. Larry to his pals! It's become a bit trendy in Wales to use the 'ap' of late with a number of people using that format when they're not necessarily christened that way. Not sure of the legalities of that mind you.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pete330v2 on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 3:32 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:Mc or Mac means 'son' in Irish and Scots Gaelic. Hence Finbarr Mac Domhnaill is Finbarr son of Domhnal. It is a patronymic.
Ó is almost exclusively Irish and means 'from' or 'descended from'.
Thus Finbarr Ó Domhnall is Finbarr descended from the Domhnall clan.

That's just the men. Da wimmin gets even trickier.

Also, do you even know, that there is no such thing as a Celt ?

Celt is a word the Romans used for a race of barbaric people who needed to be tamed/ruled. Shocked

And on finding the ones on the Emerald Isle particularly untamable and unruleable they changed the ELT to UNT and all was well.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Luckless Pedestrian on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 3:51 pm

'Ap' comes from 'map', the old Welsh for son. (It's 'mab' in modern Welsh.) A lot of Welsh surnames are Anglicisations of this: Bowen (ap Owen), Powell (ap Hywel), Price (ap Rhys) and so on.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Exiledinborders on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 4:09 pm

Griff wrote: It's become a bit trendy in Wales to use the 'ap' of late with a number of people using that format when they're not necessarily christened that way. Not sure of the legalities of that mind you.
Similar things are happening here in Scotland. A mate of mine has decided that his name is spelt Aonghus despite being him christened Angus and not speaking a word of Gaelic. Indeed in the part of Scotland where we live his ancestors never spoke it either.

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Guest on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 4:10 pm

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:'Ap' comes from 'map', the old Welsh for son. (It's 'mab' in modern Welsh.) A lot of Welsh surnames are Anglicisations of this: Bowen (ap Owen), Powell (ap Hywel), Price (ap Rhys) and so on.

Yes, I meant 'son of' when I typed 'of'. Missed out the word 'son'!

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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Pot Hale on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 6:35 pm

Griff wrote:
The Pot Hale wrote:
Griff wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Nope, I was down in Pontypridd during the afternoon, and I was back in Merthyr watching the game on S4C in the club in the evening, but thanks for your concern. OK

Did they all cheer when Shingler missed that late kick? Whistle

Or did they blame the Irish?

They used an Irish ref in Pontypridd? Run


They'd been given an Irish lawnmower to use (O'Flymo) that was set to cut the grass all wrong, and led to the missed kick.  

As a total distraction to this illuminating debate on the Irish element in the PRO14, or the PRO'14 as some like to call it, O' is actually an English abbreviation where the apostrophe is used instead of 'f'.   Thus O' generally means of and fails as an attempt to make a name Irish.  

Mc or Mac means 'son' in Irish and Scots Gaelic.   Hence Finbarr Mac Domhnaill is Finbarr son of Domhnal.  It is a patronymic.  
Ó is almost exclusively Irish and means 'from' or 'descended from'.  
Thus Finbarr Ó Domhnall is Finbarr descended from the Domhnall clan.  

That's just the men.  Da wimmin gets even trickier.  




Thanks Pot. Yes I was aware of those naming conventions, for want of a better term. O'Flymo was my attempt at humour. Apologies if you were offended.

To continue your post, the Anglicised Welsh version of this (in terms of 'son of') is to add an 's' to the end. So names such as Jones means 'son of John', Edwards = son of Edward, Williams = Son of a William, etc. The English go the whole hog obviously and have Williamson, Johnson, etc. In Welsh language the tradition is to use 'ap' to denote 'of'. Rhys ap Gruffyd would be Rhys son of Gruffyd, or anglecised it would probably be Rhys Griffiths. Newport RFC have/had a player recently named Llywarch ap Myrddin. Larry to his pals! It's become a bit trendy in Wales to use the 'ap' of late with a number of people using that format when they're not necessarily christened that way. Not sure of the legalities of that mind you.

Cheers Griff. Not offended in the slightest. In fact, very intrigued.  Your example of Rhys ap Gruffyd is eerily coincidental. Why did you pick that?

Naming and genealogy is an interest of mine currently.  So far on one side I've tracked back into Leinster, Munster and then Ulster for a few generations. And on the other side, Leinster, Connacht and then Wales for about 5/6 generations.  A good few of the Welsh names had Ap in them so now I know what it means. Very helpful.
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Re: Irish ref, Irish TMO, game in Ireland, nothing changes.

Post by Guest on Tue 19 Sep 2017, 8:28 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Griff wrote:
The Pot Hale wrote:
Griff wrote:
Pete330v2 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Luckless Pedestrian wrote:
LordDowlais wrote:Nope, I was down in Pontypridd during the afternoon, and I was back in Merthyr watching the game on S4C in the club in the evening, but thanks for your concern. OK

Did they all cheer when Shingler missed that late kick? Whistle

Or did they blame the Irish?

They used an Irish ref in Pontypridd? Run


They'd been given an Irish lawnmower to use (O'Flymo) that was set to cut the grass all wrong, and led to the missed kick.  

As a total distraction to this illuminating debate on the Irish element in the PRO14, or the PRO'14 as some like to call it, O' is actually an English abbreviation where the apostrophe is used instead of 'f'.   Thus O' generally means of and fails as an attempt to make a name Irish.  

Mc or Mac means 'son' in Irish and Scots Gaelic.   Hence Finbarr Mac Domhnaill is Finbarr son of Domhnal.  It is a patronymic.  
Ó is almost exclusively Irish and means 'from' or 'descended from'.  
Thus Finbarr Ó Domhnall is Finbarr descended from the Domhnall clan.  

That's just the men.  Da wimmin gets even trickier.  




Thanks Pot. Yes I was aware of those naming conventions, for want of a better term. O'Flymo was my attempt at humour. Apologies if you were offended.

To continue your post, the Anglicised Welsh version of this (in terms of 'son of') is to add an 's' to the end. So names such as Jones means 'son of John', Edwards = son of Edward, Williams = Son of a William, etc. The English go the whole hog obviously and have Williamson, Johnson, etc. In Welsh language the tradition is to use 'ap' to denote 'of'. Rhys ap Gruffyd would be Rhys son of Gruffyd, or anglecised it would probably be Rhys Griffiths. Newport RFC have/had a player recently named Llywarch ap Myrddin. Larry to his pals! It's become a bit trendy in Wales to use the 'ap' of late with a number of people using that format when they're not necessarily christened that way. Not sure of the legalities of that mind you.

Cheers Griff. Not offended in the slightest. In fact, very intrigued.   Your example of Rhys ap Gruffyd is eerily coincidental.  Why did you pick that?

Naming and genealogy is an interest of mine currently.  So far on one side I've tracked back into Leinster, Munster and then Ulster for a few generations. And on the other side, Leinster, Connacht and then Wales for about 5/6 generations.  A good few of the Welsh names had Ap in them so now I know what it means. Very helpful.  

Eerily coincidental? Do you mean because you're researching it at the moment and that name has come up? It's not my name, by the way. My name isn't Rhys! But my surname is Griffiths. Not sure why I went for Rhys really!

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