Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

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Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 7:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

I was erring on the side of "too soon" when wondering whether to start this thread, but then I saw Olly had 12-fingered a "World Cup 2019" thread already and thought I was probably ok.

So, we move away from the West Indies and look at a trip Down Under to my second favourite country in the world; aye, we're heading to Australia for The Ashes.

And for us, there are many things to worry about. The top order hasn't really answered any questions firmly this summer: 3 of the top 5 could arguably count themselves lucky to be selected come November 23rd and a trip to Brisbane. It wouldn't be a surprise, given how things have gone, to see one of those dropped by the time we head to Adelaide for a day-nighter that will give those of us with jobs more of a chance to see some cricket!

There are questions in the bowling attack too, although you could be kind and say there's only one. Who is the other seamer? If Wood stays fit, surely he is the man to bring that real fizz that we'll need? But will he be fit? I know Oliver is sure of Woakes, and I do feel his strength with the bat could be useful with the shaky feeling about so many of the batsmen. One could also argue that it is how hard it is to really nail your colours to any of the options below the starting Xi that really keeps a less than inspiring (but still relatively well-performing) Stuart Broad away from much pressure.

Bayliss has said it's unlikely that any new faces will be picked. but with the amount of players England have got through lately, that still keeps us guessing somewhat.

Second spinner? Back-up wicket keeper? Where does Root bat and how does that change the side?

And what of Australia? I think it is safe to say that neither side is coming in with a classic XI on show. 

As I have confessed, I know by no means as much as pretty much anyone who comes to this part of the site, so enjoy reading and learning as we go. 

Go forth and predict your squad(s), XI(s) and discuss all and sundry whilst the words are meaningless and the rivalry brews.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 1:49 pm

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:If stokes doesn’t play I’d imagine Overton will play and bat at 9, with Bairstow/Ali/Woakes all moving up one in the order.

Logical.

Interesting that Finn - as well as Ball - is considered a better bet than Plunkett with the red ball in Australia. Not certain I'd agree ; though he did have a couple of decent games in 2010.

Not convinced they've given up on Stokes yet : think we still have to wait on the police action.  My main fear is that all the uncertainty is going to weigh on the team ; and they really don't need any additional pressure.  A quick resolution - either way - would be nice ; but we can't really expect the law to arrange itself around the cricket team's priorities...


Does seem about right. Id kinda assumed Plunkett because hes been doing decent work in the ODIs and has the experience and batting to step in as a closer fit. But his lack of red ball time, and being one of the players reprimanded and fined have no doubt contributed to a borderline call on the 7th choice seamer go Finns way. The irony being this was announced the same day he lost his central contract.

Id agree that looking at England 4th seamer options Overton has a strong chance and is the option if England want to retain some of their batting depth. Trading Stokes for a tail ender would be huge trade down. Its not like any of the 3 are especially great bowlers or far enough ahead of the others in either raw pace or height to demand a place on impact. Nor are any of the left armers. Maybe one will display something in the nets and warm ups to force a spot, but in the absence of Stokes and any great differentiating factors I don't think "pick the best bowler and ignore the batting" is entirely applicable....and some would argue that Overton wins that anyway. At some point is pretty much inevitable that one or more of the 3 established bowler wil need a rest or actually be injured.

Regardless none of the England bowlers stands out as a especially strong. Andersons record in Aus is woeful, Broads not great. Woakes is getting there as a test bowler and is fastish but  looks more like a home test specialist. The others were behind Stokes and TRJ in the pecking order, and dont offer anything special.

If Woakes or Moeen get injured then England really will be in trouble.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by The Loaded Dog on Mon 09 Oct 2017, 1:52 pm

Where's trebs? Wink

No, I read what you're writing, Duty, however I am still a little reserved (or not so confident) given the way our blokes 'gave' away wickets so easily on the sub-continent. Sure, different conditions here but it's still a very inexperienced squad too.

Apart from Smith (56), Warner (66), Lyon (69), Starc (36) and Hazelwood (31)... only a few around 20-25 caps and the rest hardly any tests at all under their belts. They will need to come out firing in Brisbane (as has already been said on here) - win that and then pile on the pressure from there onward. Possible? Maybe.. but will obviously need things to go their way and England to stutter a fair bit.

We had much better players in fairly decent form leading into the last home series here in 2013.
Maybe Handscomb & Renshaw will perform well and establish themselves in the side but there are still big question marks over Wade. Although he should do better at home, he doesn't inspire me with great confidence - or should I say - it quite annoys me the way he carries himself around and has the propensity to drop regulation chances.  steam

We can't keep chopping & changing wicket-keepers or throwing untested and inexperienced ones into the fray with only a month or so to go.
I feel it might be too much to ask Handscomb to keep as well (and move him down the order; bring in a Marsh) but we'll know soon enough what Lehmann has in mind.
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 10 Oct 2017, 1:26 pm

The Loaded Dog wrote:

We can't keep chopping & changing wicket-keepers or throwing untested and inexperienced ones into the fray with only a month or so to go.
I feel it might be too much to ask Handscomb to keep as well (and move him down the order; bring in a Marsh) but we'll know soon enough what Lehmann has in mind.


Aus do it with wicket keepers...England do it with openers, number 3's, number 5's and 3rd/4th seamers. Not to mention taking a second spinner on tour whos not good enough to start or of any use to balance the side.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Duty281 on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 5:21 pm


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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by The Loaded Dog on Mon 16 Oct 2017, 10:00 am


Yeah, such an idiot and very disrespectful too.

I thought he had sort of calmed down (since having a couple of kids) but it's no surprise to hear that he has resorted to bad mouthing a whole country (on behalf of us!)... already... and declaring a one person assault on the old evil enemy.

What a man. I wish him luck.............. unfortunately. Headscratch
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by alfie on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 5:20 am

Warner is fun to watch bat. And I really don't mind if he has a bit to say on the field. But I do wish he'd refrain from this childish pre-series attempt to turn a sporting event into something more akin to the gladiator contests of the ancient world.
Unlike a lot of us he's never had to take any part in a real war . Perhaps if he had he'd be a bit more restrained in his language.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 17 Oct 2017, 12:25 pm

Horribly predictable. Its a bit laughably staged now.
Panto villain stuff.

In light of the Stokes situation though youd think people would want to try and present a more civil image for the game

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by The Loaded Dog on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 12:27 am

Yeah, it just gets harder to like some of these modern sports 'stars'. So unappealing and they go against the grain of proper sportsmanship.

For similar reasons I have no respect for several of our current tennis players. Simply awful individuals who I don't want to see win their matches.
It's not too difficult to urge their opponents on and I feel no sympathy for their failures on the sporting stage.

However, I don't put Warner in that same category because he is still fun to watch on the field. I remember him running right towards me fielding a ball at the SCG. As he got closer to the boundary he reminded me of a bull terrier chasing a ball... giving his all without fear of crashing into the fence. I was surprised at the speed he could move for such a little man. Wink

As Alfie says Warner is great to watch when he is full of confidence playing cricket on his terms.
Just wish he'd do that only and not try and play the smart arse joker.
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