Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

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Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 10 Sep 2017, 7:45 pm

First topic message reminder :

I was erring on the side of "too soon" when wondering whether to start this thread, but then I saw Olly had 12-fingered a "World Cup 2019" thread already and thought I was probably ok.

So, we move away from the West Indies and look at a trip Down Under to my second favourite country in the world; aye, we're heading to Australia for The Ashes.

And for us, there are many things to worry about. The top order hasn't really answered any questions firmly this summer: 3 of the top 5 could arguably count themselves lucky to be selected come November 23rd and a trip to Brisbane. It wouldn't be a surprise, given how things have gone, to see one of those dropped by the time we head to Adelaide for a day-nighter that will give those of us with jobs more of a chance to see some cricket!

There are questions in the bowling attack too, although you could be kind and say there's only one. Who is the other seamer? If Wood stays fit, surely he is the man to bring that real fizz that we'll need? But will he be fit? I know Oliver is sure of Woakes, and I do feel his strength with the bat could be useful with the shaky feeling about so many of the batsmen. One could also argue that it is how hard it is to really nail your colours to any of the options below the starting Xi that really keeps a less than inspiring (but still relatively well-performing) Stuart Broad away from much pressure.

Bayliss has said it's unlikely that any new faces will be picked. but with the amount of players England have got through lately, that still keeps us guessing somewhat.

Second spinner? Back-up wicket keeper? Where does Root bat and how does that change the side?

And what of Australia? I think it is safe to say that neither side is coming in with a classic XI on show. 

As I have confessed, I know by no means as much as pretty much anyone who comes to this part of the site, so enjoy reading and learning as we go. 

Go forth and predict your squad(s), XI(s) and discuss all and sundry whilst the words are meaningless and the rivalry brews.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 6:58 pm

Wisden - I've already said similar, particularly about preferring Plunkett to Curran. I was just commenting in my last post on the squad as it is now and in the light of today's injury to Ball.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 7:37 pm

Whilst I understand the calls for Plunkett, I do think people are slightly overrating him in the red ball game based on what he did in the white ball stuff this summer. I’ve got no problem with them going younger with Curran/Overton
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by JDizzle on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 9:22 pm

Is Tom Curran, you know, good though? His temperament and fitness (not just staying fit, but bowling overs at the same intensity throughout a game) are unquestioned - but he has averaged 45 and 35 the last two seasons in Div 1 without a five for...

Seems more suited to the limited over games (T20) from what I have seen so far.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 9:32 pm

JDizzle wrote:Is Tom Curran, you know, good though? His temperament and fitness (not just staying fit, but bowling overs at the same intensity throughout a game) are unquestioned - but he has averaged 45 and 35 the last two seasons in Div 1 without a five for...

Seems more suited to the limited over games (T20) from what I have seen so far.

I’d have questions about his pace at the top level, but in terms of his average, should be noted half the time he’s bowling on an absolute road at The Oval...

He’s got potential - although I imagine if Porter was fit he’d be in ahead of him...
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by JDizzle on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 9:51 pm

The Oval’s flat, but you have to be able to take wickets on flat decks to be a success at international level.

Not seen much of Porter so can’t comment - the best young seamer I have seen is Helm. Rate him over Overton as a pure bowler... Hope I am proven wrong!

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by alfie on Thu 09 Nov 2017, 11:44 pm

guildfordbat wrote:If Tom Curran should be required and at risk of completing jinxing things, the one thing we should be able to rely on is his fitness. He's hardly missed a game in the last two years!

That sounds like the Mother of All Potential Jinxes...

If anything happens to Curran , guildford , we'll know who to blame Smile

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 7:08 am

Seems only Stoneman will score any runs based on the warm ups!
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 9:52 am

Woakes on fire here - 3 wickets for 3 runs, getting to ball to move everywhere
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 11:34 am

Good stuff from the England bowlers - watching on the stream from BT Sport, Anderson actually looked the least threatening of the three...! Impressed by the bounce Overton was getting, think that's going to be his role whenever he plays - short sharp spells.

Didn't see any of the batting performance (was asleep obviously) - but appears we just had one of the usual collapses. Hopefully will get better when Moeen comes back into the side...
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 11:38 am

Well I wanted to see better bowling from Woakes and he has delivered in spades ... Also Overton having a good outing and with Anderson looking to be in good form I think the First Test bowling lineup is set in stone ; could do with Broad having a decent bowl in Townsville ...might they rest Jimmy or Woakes and let Curran have a run out ?  Presume Moeen will be fit .

Batting looks , on the face if it , less sure. No big scores yet , Cook scratchy so far , Root two fails to one fifty ...but I'm not too worried. It's been a two day intro and a pink ball game in often tricky conditions : I am pleased that all the batsmen have at least had significant time in the middle (good to see Bairstow scoring well when needed and doing a good job batting with the tail ) , and the newcomers (at least Stoneman and Malan) have played arguably the best knocks so far.
Obviously would like Cook and Root to step up a gear ; and I have just a touch of concern that Vince still seems to make bright little thirties and then get out ; but back in the daytime/ red ball in Townsville (weather permitting) there is time for that.
Have to say Overton hasn't done his all rounder status much good with a pair in this match Smile    But he'll be back at nine for the Test and if he can do a job with the ball I think we can live with it.

Crane is still a reserve , I imagine. But he hasn't done himself any harm with useful ball and bat efforts in this match.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by alfie on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 12:05 pm

Noted also Anderson as vice captain for the tour...fair enough I guess. he is always a bit of a leader amongst the bowlers in any case and probably has the personality to augment Root's style when needed.
Hopefully won't need to take the actual armband for more than the odd few minutes (Though I have sometimes wondered how he would have done as a skipper had he had the opportunity : I have the impression he is a pretty thoughtful fellow)
Cook and Broad are on hand anyway and I am sure ready to contribute suggestions when required. Root's youth means we really don't have to consider long range leadership plans ; but I think Bairstow will inherit the vice captaincy after Jimmy.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 12:44 pm

Totally agree with all points in your two posts there, Alfie.

Much as I like Crane and he's already shown himself to have some talent and fight, I'm keen to get Moeen back in the lineup. A tail from 8 to 11 of Overton, Broad, Crane and Anderson would be a fair way short of what we've come used to / been spoilt with in recent times. Whilst the main job of the bowlers is ... errh ... to bowl, we can't overlook that contributions from some with the bat might be more than handy as the top order struggle to impose themselves. I particularly understand your concern about Vince - thirties are not going to win or even save a Test however neatly made.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 1:44 pm

Barring injury I am certain it'll be

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Overton
Broad
Anderson

in Brisbane on 23rd November. Not a bad XI that for my money.
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 1:56 pm

Will MacPhearson in the Times suggests England may call up an extra bowler to the squad in light of the Ball injury (although Ball is not expected to fly home and miss the whole series like Finn)
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 10 Nov 2017, 2:11 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Barring injury I am certain it'll be

Cook
Stoneman
Vince
Root
Malan
Bairstow
Ali
Woakes
Overton
Broad
Anderson

in Brisbane on 23rd November. Not a bad XI that for my money.

Olly - yep, agreed. I'm happy to stake your life on that being the team. Wink

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 11 Nov 2017, 1:29 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Will MacPhearson in the Times suggests England may call up an extra bowler to the squad in light of the Ball injury (although Ball is not expected to fly home and miss the whole series like Finn)

Sussex's 20 year old left arm seamer George Garton has been called up into the squad from the Lions. I've never seen the guy (not even on tv) so can't properly comment. However, he's only played a few games at county level and is clearly pretty raw. Barring a serious outbreak of dysentery amongst our bowlers, I can't imagine him playing a Test. However, it should be useful experience for him, provide our batsmen something different to face in the nets and make it easier to rest someone like Anderson / Woakes from the final warm up game.

Garton's selection does though reflect the lack of options generally and the unavailability of some specific likely reserves. The absence of Plunkett appears to have been (partly) explained by Dobell referring today to him having a ''slight hamstring strain'' which could keep him out for as long as Ball.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by JDizzle on Sat 11 Nov 2017, 9:16 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Will MacPhearson in the Times suggests England may call up an extra bowler to the squad in light of the Ball injury (although Ball is not expected to fly home and miss the whole series like Finn)

Sussex's 20 year old left arm seamer George Garton has been called up into the squad from the Lions. I've never seen the guy (not even on tv) so can't properly comment. However, he's only played a few games at county level and is clearly pretty raw. Barring a serious outbreak of dysentery amongst our bowlers, I can't imagine him playing a Test. However, it should be useful experience for him, provide our batsmen something different to face in the nets and make it easier to rest someone like Anderson / Woakes from the final warm up game.

Garton's selection does though reflect the lack of options generally and the unavailability of some specific likely reserves. The absence of Plunkett appears to have been (partly) explained by Dobell referring today to him having a ''slight hamstring strain'' which could keep him out for as long as Ball.

As good a chance as it will be for Garton, I think this is the big thing as to why it is him coming a cover - given Starc is probably the number one threat in the Aussie bowling attack, it will be useful for the batsman to get some practice facing that left arm angle in the nets.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 13 Nov 2017, 9:44 am

Mainly for Goose -
''Sixties aren't enough. We need 160s.'' - Trevor Bayliss on the need for England's batsmen to up their game, in line with posts made and mocked here. Wink

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by alfie on Tue 14 Nov 2017, 8:27 am

Well as expected Jimmy rests in Townsville and Broad and Moeen play , Ballance misses out which pretty well confirms Vince for number three in Brisbane.
The slight surprise is that Crane is playing again and Curran not : surely they aren't planning two spinners in Brisbane so why not give the reserve pace man an outing ? Only three seamers so they should all get a decent workout.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by alfie on Tue 14 Nov 2017, 8:31 am

guildfordbat wrote:Mainly for Goose -
''Sixties aren't enough. We need 160s.'' - Trevor Bayliss on the need for England's batsmen to up their game, in line with posts made and mocked here. Wink

Hopefully one or two will make big scores this week in Townsville . Though I would actually prefer them to do so at Brisbane in the Test - where sixties really won't do the trick !

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 14 Nov 2017, 8:55 am

guildfordbat wrote:Mainly for Goose -
''Sixties aren't enough. We need 160s.'' - Trevor Bayliss on the need for England's batsmen to up their game, in line with posts made and mocked here. Wink


If you need 160's its because more than half the batsmen are failing to get to double figures. Which is pretty much where we are right now.

Again atthe top of the order I'd much rather thave a guy like an (in form) Root who reaches 50-90 pretty much every time he bats than a player who maybe makes more centuries than he has but fails to pass 20 in most innings.

Sure it would be a lot more healthy if Englands senior bats were getting 160+ every time they came out but right now we are struggling for a top 4 who are making the 60s...so lets walk before flying eh. Im happy enough with what Stonemans done so far...noone can seriously expect him to be a world class opener, but a guy who reliably delivers a foundation is far more than Englandf have had form any of Cooks recent partners....even the ones whove made a big century at some point.

The reality is when it comes to a fast pitch and Australias first choice pace attack then surviving the new ball will be much more difficult and important than the next 60 overs. For the top 3 even getting the 30's would be a good acheivement and give the middle order a chance.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by alfie on Tue 14 Nov 2017, 9:11 am

What Bayliss really means is he wants someone to make 160 ; or at least 120.
Obviously a string of fifty plus efforts will go a long way to putting up a competitive total ; but in most Tests one or two players get out cheaply so you do need at least one and preferably two players to go on with it...

Can't disagree with Goose re the top three : if they all get 30 or so in Brisbane I'd fancy Root and his middle order pals to build on 130/3 or whatever that produces...though it would be nice if Cook can reproduce his efforts from 2010 .

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Tue 14 Nov 2017, 12:40 pm

''The one thing that we have not quite got right yet is converting 60s and 70s into big hundreds.
It's nice to see guys getting in and building an innings in these conditions, but we know what will win Test matches is big hundreds.
'' - Joe Root, today.

With coach and now captain on board, my message spreading work is done. Just needs to be implemented. Wink

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by LivinginItaly on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 7:51 am

Looks like a pretty good bowling performance especially by Woakes. Maybe Overton is doing enough to claim the last bowling position.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 8:43 am

Overton appears to be impressing and with Ball’s injury he’s surely gonna be a lock for the 1st test- some runs with the bat from him would secure it I’d imagine

Woakes appears to have regained his form - all the reporters are saying he’s getting movement the others aren’t. I wonder if England consider giving him the new ball...
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by The Loaded Dog on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 9:02 am

Must be quite humid up in Townsville... warm enough here too.

Speaking of Woakes, I've got a tipping comp up on another thread.

http://www.606v2.com/t66776-the-606v2-ultimate-points-chaser-competition-for-the-70th-ashes-series

We've got a bit of time to consider which players to pick before next Thursday... and keep an eye on final team selections.

However, if you're feeling up to it - you can start sending your picks whenever you're ready. Maybe best send them all together save for later wicket keeper catches and winner of 2nd - 5th Tests.

Perhaps I might get rid of the bonus points... just add up batting scores, and simplify bowling points awarded? Or leave as is? Suggestions welcome.

Hopefully we can get at least 8 of us? I was hoping to get over 12 members if possible? Smile
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 9:53 am

Wouldn't be surpirsed Olly. If its a fast pitch Anderson would be a waste. Woakes is the nearest thing to a fast bowler England have now.
Hes not a bad shout for a potential man of the series for England

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 10:03 am

Woakes doing a fine job in rubbishing my worries about his form and fitness. So far anyway.

Not a brilliant day for England as a whole but probably the most important thing was for four of the bowlers who will surely play in the first Test to each get 16 to 18 overs under his belt.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by alfie on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 12:05 pm

No cause to worry about Woakes , it seems...he has had a couple of excellent days. And Overton - at least looking at his figures , both wickets and economy rate - is doing well enough to suggest he is at least worth a try in Brisbane . I hear he isn't quick enough ? But he is tall ; and that often counts for just as much on some Australian pitches. All really depends on how he performs in the heat of battle...

Don't get Goose's comment about Anderson as a "waste" with the new ball ? I know he doesn't have the record in Australia to match his home form ; but he has certainly taken early wickets in a number of Tests , even here...if anything his problem has been the Aussie batsmen tend to wait out his early spells and make him suffer later in the day. If the back up bowling is up to scratch that may not be so effective this time ; and the form of the two young bowlers is encouraging in that regard.
If I have a concern with the pace men it is more to do with Broad - who has apparently started a bit slowly. They can't be too bothered though as he sat out the pink ball game : hopefully they are timing his peak to perfection Smile
Seriously with his pedigree I reckon he will be OK when it counts.

Moeen has had a good bowl , at least. Perhaps he will be a bit more effective in the second innings.

Batsmen need to show something tomorrow. It still won't prove anything ; but I think we'd all like to see a couple of Big Scores. Not just guildford Smile

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Duty281 on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 3:30 pm

For those of a gambling persuasion, this is what tickles my interest for the series:

Australia to win the series at 2/5
Australia to win the first test at 8/11
David Warner to be the top series batsman at 3/1
Mitchell Starc to be the top series bowler at 23/10

And a couple of more outside ones:

Someone to score a treble century at 40/1
Australia to win 5-0 at 10/1

Of course, I could be wrong and England might pull off one of the greatest upsets of all...

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 6:28 am

runs for cook and stoneman. worryingly Vince continues to make 20's and 30's and get out. must be saving himself for the serious games

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 8:05 am

Did anyone see that Matt Prioir breifly made an appearance for England on the scoreboard yesterday?

Is there a chance that Bayliss is once again considering going with two spinners? Crane seems to be getting a lot of gametime for a spare part ....or is it just that Ali isnt deemed fit enough to bowl in this game? Its a long publicised obsession of his to get a second spinner in the side regardless of wether they are good enough or not.

The batsmen making runs is of course meaningless in light of none of them getting over 160 Rolling Eyes

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 8:19 am

I'd say it's almost nailed on after his form in the warm up games, that Stoneman gets two single digit scores in the first test Laugh
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 8:43 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I'd say it's almost nailed on after his form in the warm up games, that Stoneman gets two single digit scores in the first test Laugh
 
You mean when he faces a proper fast bowler on a helpful pitch for the first time in a test? Its not  improbable ....

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 10:15 am

Gooseberry wrote:Did anyone see that Matt Prioir breifly made an appearance for England on the scoreboard yesterday?

Is there a chance that Bayliss is once again considering going with two spinners? Crane seems to be getting a lot of gametime for a spare part ....or is it just that Ali isnt deemed fit enough to bowl in this game? Its a long publicised obsession of his to get a second spinner in the side regardless of wether they are good enough or not.

The batsmen making runs is of course meaningless in light of none of them getting over 160 Rolling Eyes

I don't see Crane being in the side for the first Test but I wouldn't be amazed if he played later in the series. Maybe just the one Test if conditions seem at all encouraging and/or a bit of a punt if others are injured or not delivering.

I get the feeling that his attitude and approach have impressed Bayliss. The importance of those characteristics shouldn't be underestimated for a touring side and especially amongst the likely reserves. One of his roles in this game has been to lighten the workload of those expected to play in the opening Test - he bowled 22 overs on day one with Woakes, Broad, Overton and Moeen each bowling 16 to 18.

I expected but almost missed your 160 jibe. Smile  Having dismissed a weak opposition for 250 (and with their leading batsman now out for the remainder of the match according to cricinfo), we clearly won't be short of runs to win this final warm up. I would also happily settle for us being 337/3 (as we are now) at any time in the Tests. Well done to those who put the runs on the board and particularly Stoneman for the first ton of the tour clap - as Alfie suggests, somewhat pleasing even for a curmudgeon like myself. I am also pleased to read though (cricinfo again) that both Cook and Stoneman wanted more and were annoyed at themselves for the way they were dismissed and not going on further.

The 160 thing may be greedy and it may even more be unrealistic but it's what we'll need to do if we are to ensure we win or at least not lose once the Tests start and the calibre of opposition immediately goes up many notches. A 30 from Vince will be pretty to watch for an hour or so but it will not cut the mustard. As LivinginItaly says, that remains worrying.

As a final comment, pleasingly professional to take Cricket Australia's final wicket for just one more run at the start of play. A second wicket for Broad which puts a better gloss on his figures and, even though it was the number 11, may give him a slight lift.

PS  Didn't follow the Matt Prior reference.


Last edited by guildfordbat on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 10:52 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Tweaked to emphasise I was ''somewhat pleased'' as per Alfie's post.)

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by alfie on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 10:15 am

Not 160... But Stoneman has at least put a century on the board , which should somewhat please guildford.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Root or Malan to push on to something similar tomorrow. Good to see Cook getting a score ; even if Vince seems set on that 25–40 range...
Only drawback is that Moeen hasn't got to the wicket yet (I thought he might have gone in at five since he really needs a hit) May not be a second innings so one hopes he will get a decent knock.

Goose raises the spectre of two spinners as Crane is featuring a lot ; but although Bayliss likes the notion he surely can't be thinking of it in Brisbane - or indeed unless and until Stokes returns to action : they aren't going into a Test in Australia with a last four of Overton Broad Crane and Anderson and YJB , Moeen and Woakes at 5-7.

Not unless they want a replay of the Indian tour's problems ...

. I think he just wants him primed for possible use later in the tour (or in the event of another injury to Moeen. )

I expect Moeen to bowl a lot in the second innings.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 10:53 am

Brisbane Times reports this is the likely Aussie squad for the 1st Test

Warner
Bancroft
Khawaja
Smith
Handscomb
S Marsh
TIM PAINE
Starc
Cummins
Hazlewood
Lyon

with Jackson Bird as 12th man.

TIM PAINE??? He last scored a Sheffield Shield century in 2006! And no Renshaw?? Shaun Marsh at 6???

If they're expecting to get through this series with only 3 seamers, my word...england might have more of a chance than i expected!
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 11:31 am

Tim Paine wow that's a blast from the past. If I'm not mistaken the last 7 t20 internationals where his first international matches in 3/4 years? He was certainly a top keeper before Nannes broke his hand many moons ago. Glenn maxwell might as well quit Australia and cash out in the t20 leagues. I mean Shaun marsh is fairly rubbish. Bancroft didn't pull up many trees in the second division of the county championship so should be all that much of a concern

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 1:24 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Did anyone see that Matt Prioir breifly made an appearance for England on the scoreboard yesterday?

Is there a chance that Bayliss is once again considering going with two spinners? Crane seems to be getting a lot of gametime for a spare part ....or is it just that Ali isnt deemed fit enough to bowl in this game? Its a long publicised obsession of his to get a second spinner in the side regardless of wether they are good enough or not.

The batsmen making runs is of course meaningless in light of none of them getting over 160 Rolling Eyes

I don't see Crane being in the side for the first Test but I wouldn't be amazed if he played later in the series. Maybe just the one Test if conditions seem at all encouraging and/or a bit of a punt if others are injured or not delivering.

I get the feeling that his attitude and approach have impressed Bayliss. The importance of those characteristics shouldn't be underestimated for a touring side and especially amongst the likely reserves. One of his roles in this game has been to lighten the workload of those expected to play in the opening Test - he bowled 22 overs on day one with Woakes, Broad, Overton and Moeen each bowling 16 to 18.

I expected but almost missed your 160 jibe. Smile  Having dismissed a weak opposition for 250 (and with their leading batsman now out for the remainder of the match according to cricinfo), we clearly won't be short of runs to win this final warm up. I would also happily settle for us being 337/3 (as we are now) at any time in the Tests. Well done to those who put the runs on the board and particularly Stoneman for the first ton of the tour clap - as Alfie suggests, somewhat pleasing even for a curmudgeon like myself. I am also pleased to read though (cricinfo again) that both Cook and Stoneman wanted more and were annoyed at themselves for the way they were dismissed and not going on further.

The 160 thing may be greedy and it may even more be unrealistic but it's what we'll need to do if we are to ensure we win or at least not lose once the Tests start and the calibre of opposition immediately goes up many notches. A 30 from Vince will be pretty to watch for an hour or so but it will not cut the mustard. As LivinginItaly says, that remains worrying.

As a final comment, pleasingly professional to take Cricket Australia's final wicket for just one more run at the start of play. A second wicket for Broad which puts a better gloss on his figures and, even though it was the number 11, may give him a slight lift.

PS  Didn't follow the Matt Prior reference.


Apparently the ground scoreboard operator put up Priors name on the England lineup for a while instead of Bairstow. Its uncertain whther thsi was just a screw up or the famed "Australian sense of humour"

Jokes about 160s and Vinces form aside its about as good a result as you coudl have hoped for from whats a pretty meaningless warm up. They still wont have faced much in the way of the sort of genuinely fast bowling they will face from Starc and whilst going in with some confidence and decnet spirits and what looks like a largely settled 10 from 11 there has to be a recognition that their preparation hasnt been ideal.

Still things are in a better state than they were looking a few weeks ago.

Even more so in light of the rumoured Aus team, although I suspect the usual media trolling going on there. Whoever they do eventually settle on (including Paine vs Wade) Aus will have difficulty balancing their batting depth against bowling options. Its likely to be a low scoring series, so yeah bring on those 160s guys  Rolling Eyes  Thing is it was last time and England still got battered.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by jimbohammers on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 2:26 pm

I understand peoples worries about Vince. But id rather someone who gets 30 off 40 balls rather than someone who gets 9 off 60 balls

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by wisden on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 4:20 pm

I wouldnt....its a test match not an ODI

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 5:05 pm

Why would you take the guy who scores less runs? Erm
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by compelling and rich on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 5:58 pm

maybe a poor example with those scores, but id take a opener who scores 50 off 160 balls than a player who can score 60/70 off 40 balls. major role of the opener is to take the threat of the new ball away and added bonus if he can wear their strike bowlers down

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by The Loaded Dog on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 6:35 pm

I'm happy with Tim Paine replacing Wade but I would have preferred to see Renshaw remain.

The S Marsh inclusion is a backward step and is an insult to the 'building for the future' objective of giving younger players a chance to really establish themselves... thought this would have been a great opportunity for Renshaw to come of age on the big stage... not Marsh!

Cameron Bancroft in big run-scoring form in WA... and he needs to continue in the same vein in Brisbane which will be difficult.
Complete opposite conditions here in the east; humid, wet, hot, muggy, slippery... another reason why they shouldn't have selected Sean Marsh.
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 8:10 pm

LD - is Peter Nevill completely out of the picture these days? Thought he kept well when touring here although probably too light on runs for the modern game. [He's married to an English girl whose parents live round the corner which increases my interest / nosiness. Wink ]

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by jimbohammers on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 9:40 pm

wisden wrote:I wouldnt....its a test match not an ODI

Haha, what?!

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by The Loaded Dog on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 1:25 am

guildfordbat wrote:LD - is Peter Nevill completely out of the picture these days? Thought he kept well when touring here although probably too light on runs for the modern game. [He's married to an English girl whose parents live round the corner which increases my interest / nosiness. Wink ]

Completely out of it now it would seem, Guildford. If you see her parents down at the local markets... please offer my sincere condolences re: their son-in-law's non-selection. Wink

Paine is in side on the back of a 71* yesterday. Both Nevill and Wade struggled to score many runs in the last few Shield matches.
Spare a thought for Maxwell too. A couple of recent 50s not enough for him to retain his spot. Not out 45 currently, Handscomb went for 13.
Bad light has just stopped play...

Malan closing in on a century in Townsville now... he's on 96*
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 9:14 am

Townsville arguably my favourite Australian place name. There’s some funny sounding ones, but Townsville just means Townstown.

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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by The Loaded Dog on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 9:29 am

Yes, it's a tautological place name. A lazy public servant in the 19thC perhaps?

It should be renamed Wulgurukaba or just Wulguru for short - like the tribe after which the suburb is named.
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Re: Squad wrangles, top order worries and who takes the wickets: Pre-Ashes Selections and Thoughts Thread

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 9:37 am

As we know, this game isn't too hard a challenge but nonetheless another good day for England.

Main day 3 highlights or plus points being a century for Malan who looks determined to cement his place in the side and a couple of wickets for Moeen to hopefully settle any nerves going into the opening Test. Add to that, another gutsy showing from Crane. 25 not out in a last wicket partnership of 50+ with Woakes to take us beyond 500 and later on a wicket which now leaves Cricket Australia facing down the barrel. I still don't see that as sufficient to get him an immediate Test place but it probably is further evidence that he's up for the fight if called upon later in the series.

A concern though that Overton was out first ball, his third consecutive duck. As he is pencilled in by many of us to bat at number 9 in the first Test, that's far from encouraging. However, I think we just have to go with it. If only to boost his confidence, a couple of wickets for him tomorrow in an England win would be handy.

PS LD - thanks for the Nevill update. I'll comment separately on Australia's squad for the first two Tests.

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