Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

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Post by profitius on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 5:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Continued from this one. http://www.606v2.com/t63658-irish-provinces-news-gossip-thread-2016-17
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Post by profitius on Fri 19 Jul 2019, 7:39 am

Jake Flannery, John Hodnett, Paddy Kelly and Eoin O'Connor have been brought into the Munster academy.


Flannery and Hodnett were 2 of the stars for the Ireland U20 side. Kelly (19) and O'Connor (18) are both second rows.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 19 Jul 2019, 9:38 am

What about the reserve out half guy. Thought he was really good

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Post by profitius on Fri 19 Jul 2019, 10:08 am

Collapse2005 wrote:What about the reserve out half guy. Thought he was really good

Ben Healy? He's already in it. Going into year 2 now.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 19 Jul 2019, 10:17 am

Yeah him the lanky red head dude, good playa.

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Post by profitius on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 12:07 am

Larkham has arrived and taken his first training session. First step in getting Munster to play modern rugby but it's going to take a year at least imo.

Looking forward to hearing what he has to say.
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 20 Aug 2019, 11:40 am

Oh I think he might get his message across sooner than that.  Well, maybe I'm overdoing his role.  More accurately, given the resignations and such, I feel Munster have realised resistance is futile.  
A new way was tried before into 'modernity' but the Munster myth always states that new ways aren't the Munster ways and the Munster 'family' gets suspicious of those that try to come in and change too much the traditions.  
Well, I think finally Munster themselves are wakening up to the reality that the Great old days in Europe are gone and that constantly trying to hark back to that old model (personalities and style) will not take them there again quickly. A genuine new chapter beckons...finally. Fingers crossed.

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Post by Sin é on Wed 25 Sep 2019, 10:35 pm

Had to laugh at this - seemingly RyanAir sent out an email inviting CVs for Accountants to work as Assistants to Michael O'Leary. At the end of the list of skills/attributes required was: No Dublin, Man Utd or Leinster supporters need apply!
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Post by profitius on Fri 04 Oct 2019, 10:47 pm

3 tries for Ronan Kelleher tonight. Could be one if Farrell's first new caps in the next 6 nations.
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Post by SecretFly on Sat 05 Oct 2019, 8:25 am

profitius wrote:3 tries for Ronan Kelleher tonight. Could be one if Farrell's first new caps in the next 6 nations.

Looking forward to a potential brand spanking new Ireland...well, in terms of how they want to play it (Still fully behind this Ireland team and Joe Schmidt - and backing them to fight hard when needed in this WC.)

But if we could introduce even a degree of the spirit and style that this Leinster bring....adding it as a regular ingredient in a still ruthlessly defensively honest side.... then we could have some beauty to go with our renowned bullish ugliness.

So we'll see who Farrell gets as assistants and then we'll see which new players might begin to drip into the side.

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Post by profitius on Sun 06 Oct 2019, 8:42 am

SecretFly wrote:
profitius wrote:3 tries for Ronan Kelleher tonight. Could be one if Farrell's first new caps in the next 6 nations.

Looking forward to a potential brand spanking new Ireland...well, in terms of how they want to play it (Still fully behind this Ireland team and Joe Schmidt - and backing them to fight hard when needed in this WC.)

But if we could introduce even a degree of the spirit and style that this Leinster bring....adding it as a regular ingredient in a still ruthlessly defensively honest side.... then we could have some beauty to go with our renowned bullish ugliness.

So we'll see who Farrell gets as assistants and then we'll see which new players might begin to drip into the side.


Mike Catt and John Fogarty are the new coaches.


Good win for Munster yesterday. Made plenty of handling errors but Larkham has made a huge difference already. Mike Haley had by far his best game for Munster and Shane Daly won his second motm award in a row.


Good wins for Connacht and Leinster. Don't know what happened to Ulster.
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Post by profitius on Sun 13 Oct 2019, 10:59 am

Big defeat for Munster, big wins for the other 3. Plenty of high scoring games so far.
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Post by Brendan on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 5:51 pm

Cheetahs are much better than last year but they still need to show they can play away from home in less ideal conditions

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Post by profitius on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 7:54 pm

Brendan wrote:Cheetahs are much better than last year but they still need to show they can play away from home in less ideal conditions


They look better than they are because of circumstances imo. Altitude and other teams beginning their season helps them greatly. They're better than last season alright do they should challenge for the playoffs at least.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 9:08 pm

profitius wrote:
Brendan wrote:Cheetahs are much better than last year but they still need to show they can play away from home in less ideal conditions


They look better than they are because of circumstances imo. Altitude and other teams beginning their season helps them greatly. They're better than last season alright do they should challenge for the playoffs at least.

Based exactly on what you said....i.e. that altitude 'shock' greatly assisting a still pretty damn good Cheetahs side, I actually was quite impressed by Munster's efforts despite the scoreline. Munster look up for a fight and when they get back down to sea level, for now at least they seem to be packing a punch.

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Post by Brendan on Mon 14 Oct 2019, 9:51 pm

SecretFly wrote:
profitius wrote:
Brendan wrote:Cheetahs are much better than last year but they still need to show they can play away from home in less ideal conditions


They look better than they are because of circumstances imo. Altitude and other teams beginning their season helps them greatly. They're better than last season alright do they should challenge for the playoffs at least.

Based exactly on what you said....i.e. that altitude 'shock' greatly assisting a still pretty damn good Cheetahs side, I actually was quite impressed by Munster's efforts despite the scoreline.  Munster look up for a fight and when they get back down to sea level, for now at least they seem to be packing a punch.

We also need to remember that some teams are missing half or more of their team so while Cheetahs have hit the ground running they will be changing coach in the coming weeks and aren't going to be getting better personnel so this is them at their best. Unless Cheetahs get a home Quarter final that will be their limit.

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Post by profitius on Sat 26 Oct 2019, 9:24 pm

Munster snatch a bonus point at the death, Connacht snatch a BP win in stoppage time, Ulster hold off a Cardiff comeback and it's Leintertainment in Italy as Leinster hold off Zebre for a pulsating 3-0 win. Who needs the world cup. Very Happy
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Post by SecretFly on Sat 26 Oct 2019, 9:35 pm

profitius wrote:Munster snatch a bonus point at the death, Connacht snatch a BP win in stoppage time, Ulster hold off a Cardiff comeback and it's Leintertainment in Italy as Leinster hold off Zebre for a pulsating 3-0 win. Who needs the world cup. Very Happy

I hope no offloading occurred in any of those wins! .........

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 26 Oct 2019, 9:36 pm

Didn't see the Leinster game but when I saw that scoreline .... ???? ..... you wonder what the hell kind of game that was.

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 27 Oct 2019, 12:59 am

SecretFly wrote:Didn't see the Leinster game but when I saw that scoreline .... ???? ..... you wonder what the hell kind of game that was.

Munster cup game circa 1988. Leinster hammered them 3-0. Anyone from limerick would be delighted with it

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Post by Brendan on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 7:34 am

SecretFly wrote:Didn't see the Leinster game but when I saw that scoreline .... ???? ..... you wonder what the hell kind of game that was.

From reports seems that Zebre were unlucky not to score a try on a few occasions (dropped balls) so maybe Leinster thought it would be easier than it was.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 29 Oct 2019, 8:40 am

Brendan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Didn't see the Leinster game but when I saw that scoreline .... ???? ..... you wonder what the hell kind of game that was.

From reports seems that Zebre were unlucky not to score a try on a few occasions (dropped balls) so maybe Leinster thought it would be easier than it was.

Maybe they did.  But purely based on experience you'd assume Leinster early enough in the game assessed that it indeed would not now be as easy as expected and adapt accordingly to play more of an A game, that they might hope to use in European contest as it were - IF they had one *gulp*

Or Zebre was just that good and look out Pro14.

Or Leinster used the game to test out the robustness of their defences and kinda cut the resulting result bloody thin! Whistle

Or Leinster have been flushed out early in the season and it's all down hill from here.
A Bassett's Allsorts of potential readings.

There was also talk of tough conditions but didn't hear specifically what the conditions were - wind? rain? both?

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Post by Kingshu on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 10:26 pm

Multiple reports are claiming that Munster are set to sign South African World Cup winners Damian de Allende and RG Snyman for next season.

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Post by Kingshu on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 10:49 pm

If true have to question the IRFU who have allowed Munster a NIQ center for all but one season from 2003-2022, yet said Ulster had a NIQ in one position for too long from 2010-2017? Or if as was given at the time only one NIQ player per position does that mean Godwin, or Tomane are gone and Leinster cannot have a NIQ center?

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Post by Kingshu on Mon 04 Nov 2019, 10:55 pm

If true great signings BTW and fair play to Munster nothing against them just the IRFU for continually allowing Munster a NIQ center.

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Post by The Great Aukster on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 6:35 am

The IRFU are obviously worried about falling attendances caused by the relative lack of success at Munster. That's why they are getting preferential treatment with the rule bending. They are starting to produce home grown Test players too with the emergence of Conway, Carbery, Arnold, Farrell and Kleyn. ☺

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Post by Brendan on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 11:24 am

Munster have forgotten how to win much like Ulster. Until both learn to win they will be nearly people. Ulster have a much younger side with belief so better positioned.

It is good to bring in players as good as these SA players but as pointed out not always in the same position. They will up the standard of Munster.

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Post by SecretFly on Tue 05 Nov 2019, 12:00 pm

I see the standard at Munster already rising. If they can solidify the good bits an add.... might be a few good years coming for them. But so far, they've caught my attention already.

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Post by Brendan on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 11:28 am

SecretFly wrote:I see the standard at Munster already rising.  If they can solidify the good bits an add.... might be a few good years coming for them.  But so far, they've caught my attention already.

They still crumble. Unless Sarries have to let people go to get under the cap I can't see then getting past an away quarterfinal.

Maybe they will beat Leinster in the aviva

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Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Wed 06 Nov 2019, 11:10 pm

Brendan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I see the standard at Munster already rising.  If they can solidify the good bits an add.... might be a few good years coming for them.  But so far, they've caught my attention already.

They still crumble.  Unless Sarries have to let people go to get under the cap I can't see then getting past an away quarterfinal.

Maybe they will beat Leinster in the aviva

God you talk complete rubbish most of the time

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Post by Pot Hale on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 5:01 pm

Kingshu wrote:If true have to question the IRFU who have allowed Munster a NIQ center for all but one season from 2003-2022, yet said Ulster had a NIQ in one position for too long from 2010-2017? Or if as was given at the time only one NIQ player per position does that mean Godwin, or Tomane are gone and Leinster cannot have a NIQ center?

The quota guidelines from the Player Succession Strategy came into being at end of 2011 and implemented from 2012/13 season onward.   Only 12 Non-Irish Eligible - and 3 Not Irish Qualified players who could qualify - per position - applied to senior squads in Leinster, Munster and Ulster only.   NIE player contracts should not be renewed.    Pieanaar being in the one position was deemed to be blocking development of other 9s.

With the cutbacks on foreign salary funding, the player selection shifted away from NIE players (expensive) and more to NIQ players (cheaper) who were deemed as not blocking the succession path.

Godwin is Connacht so possibly not counted, although Nucifora seems to be looking at their contracts just as much as the other three.  Tomane is designated a universal back with Leinster - he played centre in 6 starts, wing 3 starts, and 4 off the bench last season.  4 starts at centre this season.

Current crop of NIE, NIQ and RIQ foreign players excluding parent/grandparent qualifying is:

Munster
Lock - NIE - Jed Holloway - short-term RWC loan until end November 2019
S-half - NIE - Albie Mathewson - contracted until Nov 2019
B/row - NIE - Arno Botha - contracted until June 2020
B/row - NIQ - Chris Cloete - SA-born qualifies in Oct 2020, and is contracted until June 2022
Prop - NIQ in academy - Kenyon Knox - qualifies in Dec 2020 - contracted until June 2022
RIQ - Bleyendaal, Marshall, Kleyn, Stander already Residency Irish Qualified.

Ulster
Lock - NIE - Sam Carter - contracted at Ulster until June 2022
B/row - NIE - Marcell Coetzee - contracted until June 2022
Uni Back - NIQ - Matt Faddes - NZ-born contracted until June 2022
RIQ - Ludik - already residency qualified

Leinster
Lock - NIE - Scott Fardy - - contracted until June 2020
Wing/Centre - NIE - Joe Tomane - contracted until June 2020
Wing - NIQ - James Lowe - NZ-born contracted until June 2020.  Would qualify in Nov 2020 age 29.
Prop - NIQ - Roman Salanoa - USA-born qualifies in Sept 2020. Still in academy.
RIQ - Gibson-Park already qualified

Connacht
B/row - NIQ - Jarad Butler - contracted until June 2021 - qualifies in Sept 2020 aged 29.
B/row - NIQ - Colby Fai'inga - contracted until June 2021 - would only qualify in Sept 2023 aged 32
10 - NIQ - David Horwitz - contracted until June 2020 - would only qualify in June 2023 - aged 29
Centre - NIE - Kyle Godwin - contracted until June 2020.
Wing - NIQ - John Porch - contracted until June 2020
RIQ: McCartney, Roux, Aki already qualified

So, across them all full-time in senior squads broadly - 7 NIE and 7 NIQ.  An d 9 have already residency qualified with 4 of them being test-capped.
Hookers & Props - 0
Locks - 2
B/row - 5
SH - 1
OH - 1
C - 2
W - 2
FB - 1

By end of this season, possibly 6 NIE players will be off the provinces' books, and possibly 4 NIQ players whose contracts may not be renewed.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 7:29 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 7:41 pm

The Snyman and De Allende to Munster rumour is gathering pace. What a coup; very intelligent business in getting Snyman too, he would be an assured started for every other international team but SA have a conveyor belt of monster locks. Unbeknownst to some, but there’s a Du Toit mark II who has been playing in France for a while. The depth in SA might be a little underrated when considering their player drain.

How does the IRFU allow these signings? How much per annum? Just curious.

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Post by profitius on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 9:39 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:The Snyman and De Allende to Munster rumour is gathering pace. What a coup; very intelligent business in getting Snyman too, he would be an assured started for every other international team but SA have a conveyor belt of monster locks. Unbeknownst to some, but there’s a Du Toit mark II who has been playing in France for a while. The depth in SA might be a little underrated when considering their player drain.

How does the IRFU allow these signings? How much per annum? Just curious.


Not confirmed yet but I would say they'll be the only 2 NIE or NIQ players next season. Mathewson and Holloway are leaving before Christmas and Botha will probably be leaving in the summer. The rest will be Irish qualified.
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Post by Kingshu on Fri 08 Nov 2019, 10:24 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:The Snyman and De Allende to Munster rumour is gathering pace. What a coup; very intelligent business in getting Snyman too, he would be an assured started for every other international team but SA have a conveyor belt of monster locks. Unbeknownst to some, but there’s a Du Toit mark II who has been playing in France for a while. The depth in SA might be a little underrated when considering their player drain.

How does the IRFU allow these signings? How much per annum? Just curious.

It appears now the rule is 3NIQ per squad thats what Ulster and Leinster have, Munster have four but it will drop to 2 shortly. Doesn't appear to be a set rule and the IRFU may allow a fourth in certain cases.
There isnt a set pay bracket per annum, just what the province can afford, they will never get paid direct from the IRFU, but will be paid from the provinces coffers.


The IRFU also have to sign off on them and may reject the Provinces application, if it thinks that the NIQ is blocking an IQ player in a postion Ireland need strenghtened in, for example Ulster not being allowed to resign Pienaar, as Ireland needed more depth at SH, or sign an NIQ outhalf after Jackson, as refused permission to sign Elton Jantjies as not IQ and got Billy Burns instead, Munster were declined Stephen Moore in 2015. Medical jokers need signed off too and can be refused, for example Ulster not allowed to sign cover when Coetzee was out injuried, or Connacht not being allowed an outhalf one year and having to play a SH in OH position.

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Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 1:10 am

Ah so technically Munster have zero ‘foreign mercenaries’ on their books, unless they get the said two. Thanks for clearing that up. I only asked about wages as I was curious about their worth. 
The project rule might continue to work for us too. I don’t think there is a set rule but if we sign a ‘project player’ then it probably doesn’t count towards the NWQ limit. Parkes is an example of that, but I don’t think it was foreseen that he would be playing for Wales. Next in line are McNicholl and Halaholo (both NZ).

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Post by SecretFly on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 10:15 am

Han Solo?

Good coup there too! Handy man in a tight squeeze. Always manages to escape with just a graze or two.

Oh sorry, I'm dyslexic

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 09 Nov 2019, 5:33 pm

Kingshu wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:The Snyman and De Allende to Munster rumour is gathering pace. What a coup; very intelligent business in getting Snyman too, he would be an assured started for every other international team but SA have a conveyor belt of monster locks. Unbeknownst to some, but there’s a Du Toit mark II who has been playing in France for a while. The depth in SA might be a little underrated when considering their player drain.

How does the IRFU allow these signings? How much per annum? Just curious.

It appears now the rule is 3NIQ per squad thats what Ulster and Leinster have, Munster have four but it will drop to 2 shortly. Doesn't appear to be a set rule and the IRFU may allow a fourth in certain cases.
There isnt a set pay bracket per annum, just what the province can afford, they will never get paid direct from the IRFU, but will be paid from the provinces coffers.


The IRFU also have to sign off on them and may reject the Provinces application, if it thinks that the NIQ is blocking an IQ player in a postion Ireland need strenghtened in, for example Ulster not being allowed to resign Pienaar, as Ireland needed more depth at SH, or sign an NIQ outhalf after Jackson, as refused permission to sign Elton Jantjies as not IQ and got Billy Burns instead, Munster were declined Stephen Moore in 2015. Medical jokers need signed off too and can be refused, for example Ulster not allowed to sign cover when Coetzee was out injuried, or Connacht not being allowed an outhalf one year and having to play a SH in OH position.

There is no rule, just guidelines on the quotas.   For example, last season, Leinster had 4 foreign players - 2 NIE - Fardy and Tomane, and 2 NIQ - Gibson-Park and Lowe.  JGP has since qualified on residency.  Toner will likely retire when his central contract finishes in June 2020.   Fardy and Tomane will also finish.   And Sean Cronin and Rob Kearney may also hit the exit door.   So Leinster may be in the market for more foreign signings.

IRFU are still operating broadly to 1 player per position, if required.   De Allende and Snyman will play two seasons in Japan during 2020 - as a lot of All Blacks will do.   They won't arrive in Munster until 2021, if they are signed.

You're right that Nucifora & Co at IRFU have to sign off any foreign signing - whether NIE or NIQ since residency has now moved to 5 years, they're almost deemed the same, unless they're aged under 20 e.g. Knox at Munster, and Salamona at Leinster, who arrived from USA at 18 and played club rugby before being brought into Leinster academy.

The IRFU pays a contribution to each of the provinces which includes contributions towards player salaries that are tiered depending on seniority and experience.   A fixed sum is paid towards foreign NIE signings, irrespective of what the total salary is, the club has to pay the rest along with any commercial support they or agent may secure.
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Post by St John The Enforcer on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 8:54 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Kingshu wrote:If true have to question the IRFU who have allowed Munster a NIQ center for all but one season from 2003-2022, yet said Ulster had a NIQ in one position for too long from 2010-2017? Or if as was given at the time only one NIQ player per position does that mean Godwin, or Tomane are gone and Leinster cannot have a NIQ center?

The quota guidelines from the Player Succession Strategy came into being at end of 2011 and implemented from 2012/13 season onward.   Only 12 Non-Irish Eligible - and 3 Not Irish Qualified players who could qualify - per position - applied to senior squads in Leinster, Munster and Ulster only.   NIE player contracts should not be renewed.    Pieanaar being in the one position was deemed to be blocking development of other 9s.

With the cutbacks on foreign salary funding, the player selection shifted away from NIE players (expensive) and more to NIQ players (cheaper) who were deemed as not blocking the succession path.

Godwin is Connacht so possibly not counted, although Nucifora seems to be looking at their contracts just as much as the other three.  Tomane is designated a universal back with Leinster - he played centre in 6 starts, wing 3 starts, and 4 off the bench last season.  4 starts at centre this season.

Current crop of NIE, NIQ and RIQ foreign players excluding parent/grandparent qualifying is:

Munster
Lock - NIE - Jed Holloway - short-term RWC loan until end November 2019
S-half - NIE - Albie Mathewson - contracted until Nov 2019
B/row - NIE - Arno Botha - contracted until June 2020
B/row - NIQ - Chris Cloete - SA-born qualifies in Oct 2020, and is contracted until June 2022
Prop - NIQ in academy - Kenyon Knox - qualifies in Dec 2020 - contracted until June 2022
RIQ - Bleyendaal, Marshall, Kleyn, Stander already Residency Irish Qualified.

Ulster
Lock - NIE - Sam Carter - contracted at Ulster until June 2022
B/row - NIE - Marcell Coetzee - contracted until June 2022
Uni Back - NIQ - Matt Faddes - NZ-born contracted until June 2022
RIQ - Ludik - already residency qualified

Leinster
Lock - NIE - Scott Fardy - - contracted until June 2020
Wing/Centre - NIE - Joe Tomane - contracted until June 2020
Wing - NIQ - James Lowe - NZ-born contracted until June 2020.  Would qualify in Nov 2020 age 29.
Prop - NIQ - Roman Salanoa - USA-born qualifies in Sept 2020. Still in academy.
RIQ - Gibson-Park already qualified

Connacht
B/row - NIQ - Jarad Butler - contracted until June 2021 - qualifies in Sept 2020 aged 29.
B/row - NIQ - Colby Fai'inga - contracted until June 2021 - would only qualify in Sept 2023 aged 32
10 - NIQ - David Horwitz - contracted until June 2020 - would only qualify in June 2023 - aged 29
Centre - NIE - Kyle Godwin - contracted until June 2020.
Wing - NIQ - John Porch - contracted until June 2020
RIQ: McCartney, Roux, Aki already qualified

So, across them all full-time in senior squads broadly - 7 NIE and 7 NIQ.  An d 9 have already residency qualified with 4 of them being test-capped.
Hookers & Props - 0
Locks - 2
B/row - 5
SH - 1
OH - 1
C - 2
W - 2
FB - 1

By end of this season, possibly 6 NIE players will be off the provinces' books, and possibly 4 NIQ players whose contracts may not be renewed.

Good post. But a few corrections.

Matt Fades has 3 nz 7s caps and is therefore nie.

He is also only signed until 2021

Sam Carter likewise signed to 2021

Jarrad Butler is actually signed until 2022

Also. not a correction but while toner may well call it a day at the end of the season he will still be just short of 34. A baby in lock terms. Yes he is closing in on 300 caps in pro rugby but donners has more than 450 for example. Toner could easily knock out a couple more seasons mentoring the 3 younglads. C Ryan Dunne and Baird.

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Post by profitius on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 10:03 am

The match yesterday wasn't great. A lot of errors. The returning internationals for Munster looked a bit confused on what they were supposed to be doing. Its understandable since they've only joined up with the squad. There wasn't the fluidity of recent weeks.


I thought Ulster defended and competed well but blew multiple attacking opportunities by making handling errors.


Leinster looked very good against Connacht. Just as Best retires along comes Kelleher. Their pack demolished the Connacht pack. Connors another one to watch in terms of an Ireland prospect. 6'5 open side is unusual but he's very effective.
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Post by Maine man on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 10:36 am

What's the likelihood of Kelleher making the 6 nations squad?

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 10 Nov 2019, 11:16 am

Maine man wrote:What's the likelihood of Kelleher making the 6 nations squad?

1.  I'd always be cautious about overdoing the publicity on a player that for now is doing a good job at the beginning of a season at Provincial level.  As we keep discovering, and as quickly forgetting, International isn't Provincial.  It's another step up needed so caution caution required in not laying too much hope on individual newbies.
2.  That being said, if form is to be the new mantra (yet again - for the time being - until the new coach settles in and begins picking his own favourites repeatedly Whistle ) then not inviting Kelleher into the 6N squad would be probably a slap in the face to a guy obviously playing with the hope that his efforts are seen by a savvy International Head Coach.
3.  But there is still time on the clock for Kelleher to post perhaps some disappointing performances, not least in terms of the more challenging European competition.  So nobody can tell what his form might be like in two or three months.
4.  Ideally, age nor experience should preclude top form and hungry young players from getting a 6N squad position.  If they are outperforming seasonal talent then they are out performing seasonal talent.  Seasonal talent hasn't the luxury anymore to cruise at Provincial level and still be picked for 'big game' personas in 6N.  That lesson learned is too fresh in the minds.

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Post by Brendan on Wed 13 Nov 2019, 11:43 am

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
Brendan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I see the standard at Munster already rising.  If they can solidify the good bits an add.... might be a few good years coming for them.  But so far, they've caught my attention already.

They still crumble.  Unless Sarries have to let people go to get under the cap I can't see then getting past an away quarterfinal.

Maybe they will beat Leinster in the aviva

God you talk complete rubbish most of the time

I don't know what I said that is wrong

When Munster get into the big games they lose. They were lucky last year home and away v Exeter. They scraped by Edinburgh and Treviso in their two quarterfinals and could be described as the other team losing rather than Munster winning. Beaten well on the field in both semis.
Sarries at full strenght would top Munster's group (Things may have changed in regard full strenght) which leaves Munster at best as a runner up which means away from home with a 1 in 3 chance of it being Leinster.

When Munster play the big teams I hope for a win rather than expect because they can't go for 80 minutes and look clueless the closer those big games nearer the final whistle.

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Post by Sin é on Wed 13 Nov 2019, 12:08 pm

Brendan wrote:
Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
Brendan wrote:
SecretFly wrote:I see the standard at Munster already rising.  If they can solidify the good bits an add.... might be a few good years coming for them.  But so far, they've caught my attention already.

They still crumble.  Unless Sarries have to let people go to get under the cap I can't see then getting past an away quarterfinal.

Maybe they will beat Leinster in the aviva

God you talk complete rubbish most of the time

I don't know what I said that is wrong

When Munster get into the big games they lose.  They were lucky last year home and away v Exeter.  They scraped by Edinburgh and Treviso in their two quarterfinals and could be described as the other team losing rather than Munster winning.  Beaten well on the field in both semis.
Sarries at full strenght would top Munster's group (Things may have changed in regard full strenght) which leaves Munster at best as a runner up which means away from home with a 1 in 3 chance of it being Leinster.

When Munster play the big teams I hope for a win rather than expect because they can't go for 80 minutes and look clueless the closer those big games nearer the final whistle.

Munster have been unlucky for the last two years anyway with injuries* and having away semi-finals. Away to Saracens was a tough one. Better to have them in your group!

Joey Carberry's fitness is a real issue as was Tyler's and now it seems JJ isn't fit.
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Post by Kingshu on Thu 14 Nov 2019, 3:28 pm

Connacht have a tempory signing in Will Goddard appears to be IQ as well.

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Post by rodders on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:34 am

Great start to the champions cup with 4 wins, including 2 on the road and bonus point wins for Munster and Leinster.

It doesn't lift the doom and gloom from the RWC but the opening weekend couldn't really have gone better.
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Post by SecretFly on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 9:58 am

Lessons:

1. Do not use World Cup as warm-up for Heineken Cup Form.... Whistle - or in other words, the World Cup came a month too early for our super duper, white lightening, thunderbolt players......

2.  Ringrose should be fully contracted to wear the headband in all future games.  He was like a player possessed with that thing on. Looked more menacing too than his usual schoolboy look.

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Post by rodders on Mon 18 Nov 2019, 11:32 am

SecretFly wrote:Lessons:

1. Do not use World Cup as warm-up for Heineken Cup Form.... Whistle - or in other words, the World Cup came a month too early for our super duper, white lightening, thunderbolt players......

I get you are joking... but I think something did go a bit amiss with our preparation.

Interesting something Trimble said recently that Best came to train with Ulster during pre season and struggled with the pace of them compared to the Irish sessions.
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Post by profitius on Wed 20 Nov 2019, 10:11 am

Good grit from Connacht and Ulster at the weekend. Munster and Leinster with good wins too though not at their best.


Hopefully Stockdale's match winning play will give him a confidence boost.


Whatever about Haskell in the jungle, I'd like to see Marty Moore on an episode of Man Vs Food. He must be approaching 130kgs.


Kelleher scores again for Leinster. Great record so far but he looks to have a solid lineout throw which is the main thing.


I thought Munster were bad for 50 min and good for about 30 min. Great seeing a bit of expansive rugby this season though. You can tell that the returning internationals look very fit but they're still getting their heads around the gameplan.


Kingshu wrote:Connacht have a tempory signing in Will Goddard appears to be IQ as well.


Neville Goddard would be more appropriate, given the Connacht injury list.
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Post by profitius on Tue 26 Nov 2019, 8:09 am

Not a bad weekend for the provinces.


Ulster were good. Only complaint is they let Clermont have the bonus point which they should not have.

Leinster won the war of attrition against Lyon.

Both Munster and Racing with be annoyed but relieved with the draw. One of the best games in Thomond I've seen for a while.

Connacht put in a decent performance too. Did well to be leading but the Toulouse subs made the difference late on.

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Post by rodders on Tue 26 Nov 2019, 10:47 am

Yes Ulster may pay for conceding the losing bonus and despite an excellent performance the score line didn't really reflect how much they dominated an excellent Clermont side. I thin we are still in a great position to reach a QF but have probably handed control of the pool to Clermont.

I hope it doesn't sound hypocritical but I think there has been a bit too much positivety about Munster this week, yes they did really well to dig themselves out of a hole but to only draw at home in such a tough pool will likely cost them any chance of qualification.

They realistically need to win both games against Saracens to stay in the competition and I think the assumption Saracens have given up on Europe is a bit naive. They may hold some front line players back here and there but they won't roll over. I suspect Munster may find themselves needing something away in Paris and if so will be in trouble.

Racing looking a good bet for the title this year already...
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Post by The Great Aukster on Tue 26 Nov 2019, 1:50 pm

Kelleher looked dodgy throwing from the line under pressure - is this 6N a year too soon?

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