Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

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Post by profitius on Tue 12 Sep 2017, 5:16 pm

First topic message reminder :

Continued from this one. http://www.606v2.com/t63658-irish-provinces-news-gossip-thread-2016-17
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Post by rodders on Tue 26 Nov 2019, 2:08 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:Kelleher looked dodgy throwing from the line under pressure - is this 6N a year too soon?

Well if Cronin is out you'd have to presume that he'll be in the squad but probably behind Scannell and Herring unless there is an injury .... Rory's incredible durability is something we'll probably only appreciate now he's gone, hooker isn't a position with a lot of depth...
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 26 Nov 2019, 3:16 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50562693

Allen Clarke has left his head coach role. The Ospreys are quoted as saying, "Thanks Ulster!"

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Post by rodders on Tue 26 Nov 2019, 3:21 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/50562693

Allen Clarke has left his head coach role. The Ospreys are quoted as saying, "Thanks Ulster!"

Not really a shock with the results he's had.
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Post by mikey_dragon on Tue 26 Nov 2019, 3:23 pm

The only shock was hiring him in the first place.

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Post by rodders on Tue 26 Nov 2019, 4:07 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:The only shock was hiring him in the first place.

laughing
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Post by carpet baboon on Tue 26 Nov 2019, 9:39 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:The only shock was hiring him in the first place.

I think every Ulster fan did warn you not to

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Post by profitius on Mon 02 Dec 2019, 3:46 pm

Decent weekend for the provinces.


Ulster did the business against a weakened Scarlets. Tbh i though Ulster would rest a few more players when they knew Scarlets were boing to be down a lot. I thought Johnston was motm.


Connacht were not too convincing but got the win. Kings in fairness are tougher this season.


Leinster will be happy with their win. I mentioned Connors' performance against Connacht the other week and he repeated it here. He might make the ireland squad on this form. Good defensive display.


Munster will be disappointed but they performed well for mufh of the match. Just made some bad errors. Healy looked good after his jittery start.
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Post by profitius on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 10:38 am

UEFA have urged the FAI to sell their share of the Aviva stadium. I wonder if the IRFU would want to buy it.
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Post by SecretFly on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 11:20 am

profitius wrote:UEFA have urged the FAI to sell their share of the Aviva stadium. I wonder if the IRFU would want to buy it.

Corruption, corruption, corruption. Football reeks of the stuff.

What business is it of UEFA what share of Lansdowne FAI holds? Unless they see themselves as potential 'agent' for some potential new buyer of those shares?

Who do UEFA think should buy the shares? Manchester United? Barcelona? The Irish Government?

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Post by Brendan on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 11:29 am

Well the good news is the IRFU will be getting a bunch of cash to do it

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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 1:02 pm

SecretFly wrote:
profitius wrote:UEFA have urged the FAI to sell their share of the Aviva stadium. I wonder if the IRFU would want to buy it.

Corruption, corruption, corruption.  Football reeks of the stuff.

What business is it of UEFA what share of Lansdowne FAI holds?  Unless they see themselves as potential 'agent' for some potential new buyer of those shares?

Who do UEFA think should buy the shares?  Manchester United?  Barcelona?  The Irish Government?

Anyone could propose to by half the stadium.  It's a couple of acres of premium land in a posh part of the capital.  It's a venue that can host 50-60k concerts and events. It isn't solely soccer and rugby union.  There is convention space, hospitality, a whole load of potential there. Investment funds, live nation, plenty of other groups would be circling around.  It isn't solely a Government or IRFU situation.

If delaney was pushing funds back in into fai in the middle of the summer it would suggest cash is limited. There is a net asset position (at least in the 17-18 accounts there was) but that is wrapped up in the Aviva which isn't cash and doesn't pay the bills.  There is also c.€30m of the loan for the stadium due in the next 1-3 years.  It sounds like anyone who has seen the financial position is suggesting they need to right the ship and restructure asap.

Curious, if a company goes to the wall then usually the ODCE suspends the directors from being directors of any company for a number of years. It's a wonder how every senior head that is about to take a position in the FAI runs to the hills once they get a peak backstage. IF, if, possibly, maybe, who knows.

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Post by profitius on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 2:24 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
profitius wrote:UEFA have urged the FAI to sell their share of the Aviva stadium. I wonder if the IRFU would want to buy it.

Corruption, corruption, corruption.  Football reeks of the stuff.

What business is it of UEFA what share of Lansdowne FAI holds?  Unless they see themselves as potential 'agent' for some potential new buyer of those shares?

Who do UEFA think should buy the shares?  Manchester United?  Barcelona?  The Irish Government?

Anyone could propose to by half the stadium.  It's a couple of acres of premium land in a posh part of the capital.  It's a venue that can host 50-60k concerts and events. It isn't solely soccer and rugby union.  There is convention space, hospitality, a whole load of potential there. Investment funds, live nation, plenty of other groups would be circling around.  It isn't solely a Government or IRFU situation.

If delaney was pushing funds back in into fai in the middle of the summer it would suggest cash is limited. There is a net asset position (at least in the 17-18 accounts there was) but that is wrapped up in the Aviva which isn't cash and doesn't pay the bills.  There is also c.€30m of the loan for the stadium due in the next 1-3 years.  It sounds like anyone who has seen the financial position is suggesting they need to right the ship and restructure asap.

Curious, if a company goes to the wall then usually the ODCE suspends the directors from being directors of any company for a number of years. It's a wonder how every senior head that is about to take a position in the FAI runs to the hills once they get a peak backstage. IF, if, possibly, maybe, who knows.


The IRFU still owns the land and after 60 years the FAI lease will run out.


They gambled big time on 10 year ticket sales and it backfired spectacularly. The IRFU on the other hand went the conservative route and were fine.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 5:16 pm

How were the FAI to know that the product on the field was going to be sh!te? It's not as if it was their job to nurture and develop soccer through the grass root levels up to the national side? Oh wait, I mean they didn't have time concentrate on that when they were focusing on developing the domestic game? No that's not it nevermind. Surely there weren't all too busy creaming off the top that they didn't realise the 'top' was no longer on anything? So long as the bosses rent was paid on time and properly declared that's all that matters.

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Post by profitius on Wed 04 Dec 2019, 3:14 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:How were the FAI to know that the product on the field was going to be sh!te? It's not as if it was their job to nurture and develop soccer through the grass root levels up to the national side? Oh wait, I mean they didn't have time concentrate on that when they were focusing on developing the domestic game? No that's not it nevermind.  Surely there weren't all too busy creaming off the top that they didn't realise the 'top' was no longer on anything?  So long as the bosses rent was paid on time and properly declared that's all that matters.

They had a fun time anyway. John Delaney buying fans drinks etc. Party on! Ale
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Post by SecretFly on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 11:13 am

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Anyone could propose to by half the stadium.  It's a couple of acres of premium land in a posh part of the capital.  It's a venue that can host 50-60k concerts and events. It isn't solely soccer and rugby union.  There is convention space, hospitality, a whole load of potential there. Investment funds, live nation, plenty of other groups would be circling around.  It isn't solely a Government or IRFU situation.

My point precisely.  Vultures preying on the opportunities potentially there to buy something perhaps cheap (below market value) from an organisation being publically goaded to sell - almost ordered to sell.... with a very public meltdown of finances in the news for months if not years.

Where were UEFA in the main Delaney years when everyone, including the dog on the street, knew that it was an organisation under very suspect management control, with one single person seeming to hold Don-like influence over all decisions made with scant transparency?  
Delaney was always a man to be more closely monitored by a body like UEFA....but blind eyes when times were good.  These characters are not unique.  They are the engine by which all these big organisations are run - the action men, the people who get things done, the vision guys.... the guys that wouldn't be contained by all moral business principles.

UEFA now only got involved because in a sense they were forced to by the final 'public' disclosure of the dodgy stuff.  And now perhaps some of their corporate buddies are whispering in their ear;  "motivate these suckers to sell and you never know, if we get a good deal and get our foot in, could be beneficial to you guys down the line.... we certainly won't forget the indirect assistance".

So if the FAI do decide to take UEFA advice and sell their share well maybe final penance would be for them to sell their share CHEAP to IRFU or the Government.  I trust UEFA as much as I trust FIFA as much as I trust FAI.

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Post by Pot Hale on Thu 05 Dec 2019, 6:09 pm

SecretFly wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:
Anyone could propose to by half the stadium.  It's a couple of acres of premium land in a posh part of the capital.  It's a venue that can host 50-60k concerts and events. It isn't solely soccer and rugby union.  There is convention space, hospitality, a whole load of potential there. Investment funds, live nation, plenty of other groups would be circling around.  It isn't solely a Government or IRFU situation.

My point precisely.  Vultures preying on the opportunities potentially there to buy something perhaps cheap (below market value) from an organisation being publically goaded to sell - almost ordered to sell.... with a very public meltdown of finances in the news for months if not years.

Where were UEFA in the main Delaney years when everyone, including the dog on the street, knew that it was an organisation under very suspect management control, with one single person seeming to hold Don-like influence over all decisions made with scant transparency?  
Delaney was always a man to be more closely monitored by a body like UEFA....but blind eyes when times were good.  These characters are not unique.  They are the engine by which all these big organisations are run - the action men, the people who get things done, the vision guys.... the guys that wouldn't be contained by all moral business principles.

UEFA now only got involved because in a sense they were forced to by the final 'public' disclosure of the dodgy stuff.  And now perhaps some of their corporate buddies are whispering in their ear;  "motivate these suckers to sell and you never know, if we get a good deal and get our foot in, could be beneficial to you guys down the line.... we certainly won't forget the indirect assistance".

So if the FAI do decide to take UEFA advice and sell their share well maybe final penance would be for them to sell their share CHEAP to IRFU or the Government.  I trust UEFA as much as I trust FIFA as much as I trust FAI.

They'll have no choice but to sell their stake to IRFU if they decide to do a deal.  Their share reverts to IRFU in the long-term anyway.

It's a no-brainer for the IRFU if the situation arises.  Splitting the proceeds of New Stadium DAC 50/50 each year would stop.  FAI would become a tenant income.
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Post by profitius on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 12:52 pm

IRFU and FAI are meeting tomorrow.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1207257354858876928

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Post by Pot Hale on Wed 18 Dec 2019, 7:19 pm

profitius wrote:IRFU and FAI are meeting tomorrow.

https://mobile.twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1207257354858876928


I think the meeting is between Ross’s Dept of Sport and the IRFU. It does all come down to what the IRFU could gain above the existing position it has now. If FAI cant afford the rent either, then the income stream is compromised and affects the value of what their 50% stake is worth. Would a company like Live Nation be interested to run it as a venue, as they’ve done with Point Depot and Grand Canal Theatre? The IRFU current terms and freehold ownership may not suit them though.
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Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 03 Jan 2020, 9:55 pm

Munster dont seem to be going anywhere really. I wonder should the IRFU try to get Schmidt to coach Munster. Could really make them a force again.

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Post by RDW on Sat 04 Jan 2020, 7:37 pm

So would anyone bet against Leinster going unbeaten in the Pro 14 this season?

They're absolute miles ahead of anyone.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 04 Jan 2020, 9:11 pm

They’ll lose at some point - when their test players are absent or trying to compete in Europe at same time.
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Post by BigGee on Sat 04 Jan 2020, 9:37 pm

Maybe some other teams will find some form as well. Glasgow certainly looked better yesterday and Ulster looked devastating!

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 04 Jan 2020, 11:12 pm

BigGee wrote:Maybe some other teams will find some form as well. Glasgow certainly looked better yesterday and Ulster looked devastating!


Ulster certainly did. Very impressive performance. Interesting to see how they go against Clermont next week. Munster, on the other hand, are all over the place - Larkham's attack plans don't seem to be taking hold at all. And Connacht, after a relatively good start, are falling behind, although they have a lot of injuries - something like 20 odd incl key players like Bealham, Butler, Carty, Marmion, Roux, Dillane and Tom Farrell out and Aki on enforced IRFU rest.

Can't see them winning either of their remaining Euro matches so they'll be able to concentrate on getting into play-off and qualification spots. Munster may face the same outcome.
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Post by SecretFly on Sat 04 Jan 2020, 11:53 pm

RDW wrote:So would anyone bet against Leinster going unbeaten in the Pro 14 this season?

They're absolute miles ahead of anyone.

I think wise men would...though I'm not a betting man so I'll remain unwise and poor.

I think it a stretch to believe Leinster won't get done at least once.  If their players start wearing too many hats into this season (Pro14, Europe, Six Nations) then they'll start to think about prioritising certain games over other ones.  They have a head start in Pro14.  So in theory can afford to take their eye off the ball once or twice somewhere down the line.
It won't be so crass as that, not with an old codger like Cullen at the helm.... but I do think Europe is the priority this season after a little leeway might have been shown last year to players preparing for the WC.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 1:16 am

SecretFly wrote:
RDW wrote:So would anyone bet against Leinster going unbeaten in the Pro 14 this season?

They're absolute miles ahead of anyone.

I think wise men would...though I'm not a betting man so I'll remain unwise and poor.

I think it a stretch to believe Leinster won't get done at least once.  If their players start wearing too many hats into this season (Pro14, Europe, Six Nations) then they'll start to think about prioritising certain games over other ones.  They have a head start in Pro14.  So in theory can afford to take their eye off the ball once or twice somewhere down the line.
It won't be so crass as that, not with an old codger like Cullen at the helm.... but I do think Europe is the priority this season after a little leeway might have been shown last year to players preparing for the WC.

A fair point, Fly, although looking at the game time that Cullen has used on some key players in both comps, you have to wonder about wear and tear being the likely cause for a blip - Toner, Gibson-Park, Deegan, Doris, Fardy, Byrne have all racked up 600+ minutes each so far with 9-13 games under their belts.  6N selection will have a bearing no doubt.   This is going to be a long, long season with the test players on duty since last July and 9 test matches to date plus respective game time in their respective leagues/championships.
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Post by RDW on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 8:29 am

My reasoning being Leinster basically have two teams - a Europe and important games team and a regular Pro 14 team. There doesn't appear to be much of a drop in quality between either of them!

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Post by BigGee on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 9:00 am

Am not sure the Leinster B team been properly tested yet. Most other teams, Glasgow and Edinburgh included, just have not turned up against them this season.

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Post by Engine#4 on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 11:44 am

With some of the stats Leinster players are putting up I'd have to agree. Other teams seem to be either suffering more from a WC hangover or from very long injury lists in the case of Connacht yesterday.

A poster on another site had Max Deegan down for 2 trys, 3 assists, 21 carries for 76 meters and 29 tackles with none missed. You'd have to look at how one player was allowed to rack that up in a single game. He's just a man after all.


Didn't get MOM either😂

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Post by SecretFly on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 1:30 pm

Engine#4 wrote: He's just a man after all:


SHUSH, would ya!

Cullen will be very annoyed if you expose the 8 Billion cyborg contract he has with Sony.

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Post by Pot Hale on Sun 05 Jan 2020, 3:04 pm

RDW wrote:My reasoning being Leinster basically have two teams - a Europe and important games team and a regular Pro 14 team. There doesn't appear to be much of a drop in quality between either of them!

Yes and no. Here’s the 23 players with most game time this season in both PRO14 and Heineken. Obviously RWC restrictions and some injuries have played a part in selections, nonetheless a good few of those players will feature in the next two rounds of H Cup. Albeit some of them on the bench, and some of them starting. Sexton gets used far too often as an example of top players not being used, but players such as Fardy, Toner, Deegan, Doris, Gibson-Park, R Byrne, Lowe, D Kearney, Tracy will be.

LH: Pete Dooley - 10
H: Ronan Kelleher - 8
TH: Michael Bent - 8
LK: Scott Fardy - 10
LK: Devin Toner - 11
BR: Max Deegan - 12
BR: Will Connors - 8
BR: Caelan Doris - 11
SH: Jamison Gibson-Park - 13
OH: Ross Byrne - 11
W: James Lowe - 9
C: Jimmy O'Brien - 7
C: Rory O'Loughlin - 6
W: Dave Kearney - 8
FB: Hugo Keenan - 7

Reps:
James Tracy 12, Cian Healy 6, Andrew Porter 7, James Ryan 5, Josh Murphy 9, Luke McGrath 6, Harry Byrne 6, Joe Tomane 6.
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Post by rodders on Tue 07 Jan 2020, 8:52 am

RDW wrote:So would anyone bet against Leinster going unbeaten in the Pro 14 this season?

They're absolute miles ahead of anyone.

Yeah they just looks so strong whatever team they field, I honestly think they could win the pro14 with a combination of their 2nd/3rd strings. If you look at the performances of the likes of Deeghan, Connors etc. the depth they have is incredible. Ulster or Glasgow my be able to catch them in a one of game but you wouldn't bank on it.

Even in Europe, Saracens and Racing aside I'm not sure they will be beaten this season, I think they are benefiting from the RWC - even though the contributed a lot of the Irish squad they haven't been as impacted due to the depth they have.

Ulster too look to be one of the sides who've not been impacted by the RWC. Leinster are a different level to everyone right now but Ulster are the province who've made the most progress this season for sure, things are really starting to click. The lineout is a a concern but that aside there are so many positives about how they are playing.

Munster and Connacht look to be struggling after strong starts to the season. Munster's attack especially just looks so blunt and individually their big players aren't performing to the level needed, possibly due to a RWC hangover.
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Post by Brendan on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 12:40 am

Connachts problem is they had to play the three best teams in the league. They have an injury problem but they also lost their flyhalf's form.  If Carty can fine form they will improve

They have lost 5 games in the league. 4 to Irish teams and the other to Scarlets in the first game which was away from home.

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Post by rodders on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 9:29 am

Brendan wrote:Connachts problem is they had to play the three best teams in the league. They have an injury problem but they also lost their flyhalf's form.  If Carty can fine form they will improve

They have lost 5 games in the league. 4 to Irish teams and the other to Scarlets in the first game which was away from home.

I think you are right, they haven't become bad overnight but they do look a bit off where they were at the same point last season.

Similar with Munster right now, I think the fact that Leinster and to a lesser extent Ulster are going so well, it can make a bit of a rocky patch seem like a full blown crisis for the other provinces.
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Post by profitius on Fri 10 Jan 2020, 12:14 pm

Munster Contracts
(Robbed from thomond2006(boards))

Kevin O'Byrne 2020
Rhys Marshall 2021
Niall Scannell 2021

Diarmuid Barron Year 2
Eoghan Clarke Year 2


James Cronin 2021
Dave Kilcoyne 2020
Liam O'Connor 2020
Jeremy Loughman 2020


James French Year 2
Josh Wycherley Year 2


Stephen Archer 2020
John Ryan 2022
Brian Scott 2020
Ciaran Parker 2020


Keynan Knox Year 3 & 2022

Tadhg Beirne 2022
Billy Holland 2020
Jean Kleyn 2022
Sean O'Connor 2020
Darren O'Shea 2020

Fineen Wycherley 2021

Thomas Ahern Year 2
Paddy Kelly Year 1
Eoin O'Connor Year 1


Arno Botha 2020
Gavin Coombes 2021
Chris Cloete 2022
Tommy O'Donnell 2021
Jack O'Donoghue 2021
Peter O'Mahony 2021
Conor Oliver 2020
CJ Stander 2021

Jack Daly Year 2
John Hodnett Year 1
Jack O'Sullivan Year 3


Craig Casey 2021
Neil Cronin 2021
Nick McCarthy 2021
Conor Murray 2022

Jack Stafford Year 3

Tyler Bleyendaal 2021
Joey Carbery 2022
JJ Hanrahan 2021

Jake Flannery Year 1
Ben Healy Year 2


Sam Arnold 2020
Shane Daly 2021
Chris Farrell 2022
Dan Goggin 2020
Rory Scannell 2021

Sean French Year 2
Alex McHenry Year 3


Andrew Conway 2020
Keith Earls 2021
Mike Haley 2021
Calvin Nash 2021
Darren Sweetnam 2021
Alex Wootton 2021

Liam Coombes Year 3
Alan Tynan Year 3
Jonathan Wren Year 2



NIE: Botha, Cloete and I'm not sure about Knox


My predicted transfers at end of season.

OUT:
Ciaran Parker
Darren O'Shea
Sean O'Connor
Arno Botha
Connor Oliver
Sam Arnold

From Academy:
Alex McHeny
Alan Tynan
Jack Stafford


IN:
Academy Promotions:
Dairmuid Barron
Keynan Knox
Tom Ahern
Jack O'Sullivan
Ben Healy
Liam Coombes

Signings:
RG Snyman
Damien De Allende


Last edited by profitius on Sun 12 Jan 2020, 9:34 am; edited 1 time in total
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Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2 - Page 18 Empty Re: Irish provinces NEWS and GOSSIP thread part 2

Post by St John The Enforcer on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 9:32 am

Cloete is not NIE. Him and Knox qualify this year along with James Lowe and Jarrad Butler. Last of the 3 year qualifiers

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Post by Pot Hale on Sat 11 Jan 2020, 1:56 pm

Good news for Connacht and their redevelopment of the Sportsground.  €20m secured under the state’s Large Scale Sports Infrastructure funding programme.   Hopefully they can now complete the funding needed and redevelopment underway.  

https://www.pro14rugby.org/2020/01/10/connacht-redevelopment-project-to-receive-e20m-investment/
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