Sean O'Brien on the Lions

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Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 20 Sep 2017, 11:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

Although there might now be some headlines saying "O'Brien Blasts Lions Coaches", I don't think there's anything bitter or malicious about what he's saying. Off the Ball has audio here:

http://www.offtheball.com/Sean-OBrien-The-Lions-should-have-beaten-the-All-Blacks-comfortably-enough-new-zealand

He clearly has mixed feeling about how the tour turned out, and is trying identify where things might have gone better. His comments about over training before the first Test echo the criticism made about Graham Henry's tour in 2001.

“The first week, we definitely over-trained on the Thursday and maybe the coaches were panicking a little bit about getting the information into us. On the first week [of the first Test], we had a triple [session] day, [the] lads’ legs were heavy on the Thursday and we were playing the All Blacks on Saturday.

“We did nearly a similar thing in the last week. So maybe it’s more [from] a coaching point of view, in terms of taking lessons. Less is more sometimes on a tour like that, rather than trying to pick things up at the end of the week.

“There was probably no need for that but it’s just the way it was managed. We had said it, at the time, and they pulled back a bit. But it’s just about getting that fine balance between players and coaches and making sure the group is ready to rock.”

O'Brien says Rob Howley was unable to impose himself on the squad, and he thinks the backs were guided instead by Sexton and Farrell. If so, then that may be one factor behind Gatland's eventual decision to play both men together.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/09/20/lions-coaching-staff-blame-new-zealand-series-defeat-says-sean/

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:10 pm

Nup
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:14 pm

Does SOB mention his Lions side being humbled by a handful of SR sides? Leading for 3 minutes in the series? Incompetent referees? SOB is free to think what he wants but the reality is the Lions were fortunate to get a drawn series.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:16 pm

Not really.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:16 pm

Garces should have been investigated and we're still waiting on WR for an explanation about how the two French officials came to their decision in Test 3....waiting waiting
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:18 pm

Well 7.5, in Test 1 when there was a decent referee we won convincingly. When the two Frenchmen got involved it was a lottery and the Lions won the lottery by scraping together a draw and a win after leading for a combined total of 3 minutes.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:19 pm

So SOB is delusional. He should be sending Xmas cards to the French officials if anything.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:29 pm

Why are we waiting? They just need to ask why the tmo missed the easy read offside decision. Don't know why yure so bothered about a piece of play after that. We all agree it should have been scrum half way to the lions. As it is I didn't think kiwi s made excuses? Are you an aussie in disguise?

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:36 pm

ebop wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:
marty2086 wrote:I said prior to the series the ABs were there for the taking and I still think its the case and the rumblings post tour seem to indicate that the Lions could have done better

So did I. I agree.
Only one of the tests had a decent referee and look how that turned out. When the two corrupt French referees got involved our worst fears played out as expected before the series. We knew they'd be terrible but what transpired at the end of Test 3 was mind blowing. Was this the 'making our own luck' that SOB mentions? Taking advantage of bent referee decisions and scraping together a drawn series?

I said prior to the tour that having two NH refs for the first time in a long time would suit the Lions. SH refs te nd to be biased towards SH teams.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:45 pm

Owens should have refereed

Even Barnes would have been better
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:51 pm

And regarding SOB, who the f**k is he? Gatland wins a series in Australia and draws one in New Zealand. That's successful in my mind. This SOB guy just looks like an idiot.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Engine#4 on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:57 pm

Personally I prefer when sports stars have an opinion and are willing to express it. They are human.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by mikey_dragon on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 9:58 pm

ebop wrote:And regarding SOB, who the f**k is he? Gatland wins a series in Australia and draws one in New Zealand. That's successful in my mind. This SOB guy just looks like an idiot.

He sure does, but I can't help but agree with him on Howley. For the record, Billy Vunipola is the bigger idiot.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Sin é on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 10:22 pm

ebop wrote:And regarding SOB, who the f**k is he? Gatland wins a series in Australia and draws one in New Zealand. That's successful in my mind. This SOB guy just looks like an idiot.

Well, if its all about winning stuff, SOB would be reasonably successful - a couple of Heineken Cups, a couple of Pro12s, and a couple of Six Nations and a few wins over SH opposition plus never been on a losing Lions Tour!

Gatland is an bumhole and I suspect that Howley is the only coach who would work with him.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 10:38 pm

Sin é wrote:
ebop wrote:And regarding SOB, who the f**k is he? Gatland wins a series in Australia and draws one in New Zealand. That's successful in my mind. This SOB guy just looks like an idiot.

Well, if its all about winning stuff, SOB would be reasonably successful - a couple of Heineken Cups, a couple of Pro12s, and a couple of Six Nations and a few wins over SH opposition plus never been on a losing Lions Tour!

Gatland is an bumhole and I suspect that Howley is the only coach who would work with him.
Good player, successful? Suppose. But what an arrogant ar$ehole. Saying he thought the Lions should have beaten the ABs 'comfortably'. That's next level arrogance. No doubt built on the back of 1 win in 100 years for Ireland.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Griff on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 10:38 pm

Lovely thread this, full of lovely people! As usual. Such a lovely place.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 10:43 pm

Who remembers the fall out after the last Lions tour? Omg that was something else. It's been tame this time around.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Sin é on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 10:51 pm

ebop wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ebop wrote:And regarding SOB, who the f**k is he? Gatland wins a series in Australia and draws one in New Zealand. That's successful in my mind. This SOB guy just looks like an idiot.

Well, if its all about winning stuff, SOB would be reasonably successful - a couple of Heineken Cups, a couple of Pro12s, and a couple of Six Nations and a few wins over SH opposition plus never been on a losing Lions Tour!

Gatland is an bumhole and I suspect that Howley is the only coach who would work with him.
Good player, successful? Suppose. But what an arrogant ar$ehole. Saying he thought the Lions should have beaten the ABs 'comfortably'. That's next level arrogance. No doubt built on the back of 1 win in 100 years for Ireland.

Ah here now - I think you should have a look in the mirror on the old arrogance front. No one should even think that they could beat the New Zealand on your planet Rolling Eyes
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 10:54 pm

Sin é wrote:
ebop wrote:
Sin é wrote:
ebop wrote:And regarding SOB, who the f**k is he? Gatland wins a series in Australia and draws one in New Zealand. That's successful in my mind. This SOB guy just looks like an idiot.

Well, if its all about winning stuff, SOB would be reasonably successful - a couple of Heineken Cups, a couple of Pro12s, and a couple of Six Nations and a few wins over SH opposition plus never been on a losing Lions Tour!

Gatland is an bumhole and I suspect that Howley is the only coach who would work with him.
Good player, successful? Suppose. But what an arrogant ar$ehole. Saying he thought the Lions should have beaten the ABs 'comfortably'. That's next level arrogance. No doubt built on the back of 1 win in 100 years for Ireland.

Ah here now - I think you should have a look in the mirror on the old arrogance front. No one should even think that they could beat the New Zealand on your planet Rolling Eyes
But we're talking about PLAYERS

You will never ever hear an AB say they should beat a team 'comfortably'

Can you make the distinction?
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Sin é on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 11:06 pm

“The last Test, looking back, probably the start of the week annoyed me a little bit the way they [coaches] didn’t have us on the field, getting a little bit of info into us early in the week, then give us a bit of downtime plus it’d keep lads on the straight and narrow as well.”

But coming out of the series with a draw, it was a really good achievement?

“No. No. I think we should have won 3-0 with the players we had, we should have won the series,” O’Brien insists. “And, looking back, and I could be completely wrong, but if we had a little more structure during the weeks, and more of an attack game plan, as such, driven way earlier in the tour, I think we could win 3-0.”

That is what he said. I really can't see what is wrong with that. SOB is just a very straight talker. All players think they can win, otherwise they wouldn't bother competing. I can't see what your problem is with being honest.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Engine#4 on Thu 21 Sep 2017, 11:21 pm

Neither can I. Sometimes false humility comes off as transparently patronising. It's O'Brien's opinion and nobody here was in camp so can't really disagree.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Gwlad on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 1:12 am

it takes a master of arrogance to sit quite so righteously in judgment of another arrogance...enter ebop.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 8:08 am

Further comments from sob to clarify things. We did some things well we. could have done better. We should have a better squad in 21. I paraphrase.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 8:50 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Further comments from sob to clarify things. We did some things well we. could have done better. We should have a better squad in 21. I paraphrase.
Anyone listening to the audio of his original interview, would know that he came across as a disapoointed man, rather than a bitter or angry player looking to settle scores.

Still, he's lucky he's not English. If an English player said what O'Brien said, the're would have been a far bigger backlash. As it is, Billy Vunipola is getting slammed, despite the fact he said nothing bad about anyone.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:13 am

Rugby Fan wrote: As it is, Billy Vunipola is getting slammed, despite the fact he said nothing bad about anyone.

His comments hardly painted Gatland and co in a good light did they?

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:15 am

ebop wrote:
Only one of the tests had a decent referee and look how that turned out. When the two corrupt French referees got involved our worst fears played out as expected before the series. We knew they'd be terrible but what transpired at the end of Test 3 was mind blowing. Was this the 'making our own luck' that SOB mentions? Taking advantage of bent referee decisions and scraping together a drawn series?

Those are quite inflammatory accusations.

Those two referees are among the best in the world, far better than the likes of Nigel Owens. New Zealanders don't like them because they actually penalise their players and send them off. Something which gutless referees would never do.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by eirebilly on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:19 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Further comments from sob to clarify things. We did some things well we. could have done better. We should have a better squad in 21. I paraphrase.
Anyone listening to the audio of his original interview, would know that he came across as a disapoointed man, rather than a bitter or angry player looking to settle scores.

Still, he's lucky he's not English. If an English player said what O'Brien said, the're would have been a far bigger backlash. As it is, Billy Vunipola is getting slammed, despite the fact he said nothing bad about anyone.

Indirectly he has made a few unwelcome comments directed directly at Howley and Gatland. They may well be correct but it never sits well with me when players have these little digs after the fact.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by eirebilly on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:21 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Only one of the tests had a decent referee and look how that turned out. When the two corrupt French referees got involved our worst fears played out as expected before the series. We knew they'd be terrible but what transpired at the end of Test 3 was mind blowing. Was this the 'making our own luck' that SOB mentions? Taking advantage of bent referee decisions and scraping together a drawn series?

Those are quite inflammatory accusations.

Those two referees are among the best in the world, far better than the likes of Nigel Owens. New Zealanders don't like them because they actually penalise their players and send them off. Something which gutless referees would never do.

Good thing you did not post inflammatory accusations Whistle Run
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by RugbyFan100 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:34 am

eirebilly wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Only one of the tests had a decent referee and look how that turned out. When the two corrupt French referees got involved our worst fears played out as expected before the series. We knew they'd be terrible but what transpired at the end of Test 3 was mind blowing. Was this the 'making our own luck' that SOB mentions? Taking advantage of bent referee decisions and scraping together a drawn series?

Those are quite inflammatory accusations.

Those two referees are among the best in the world, far better than the likes of Nigel Owens. New Zealanders don't like them because they actually penalise their players and send them off. Something which gutless referees would never do.

Good thing you did not post inflammatory accusations Whistle Run

Yes, those 2 comments are directly comparable.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:35 am

eirebilly wrote:Indirectly he has made a few unwelcome comments directed directly at Howley and Gatland. They may well be correct but it never sits well with me when players have these little digs after the fact.
Not how I understand his comments at all:

“I wasn’t there on tour but I guess if he (O’Brien) is saying it and the authority he said it with, he’s probably right.

"For me to sit here and say the Lions would have probably won is wrong. But personally my opinion is that if Eddie Jones went as coach they would have won 3-0. He is that good.

“I don’t know how he would have done it, but Eddie would have found a way. Eddie has changed our mindset at England from always accepting we can’t always be too outspoken and confident and he’s really helped us a team to kick on.”

That's just praise for Jones, not indirect criticism of anyone.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by aucklandlaurie on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:36 am

Must say its good to see John Spencer standing up for the coaching staff, especially three months after the tour.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/21/lions-manager-john-spencer-hits-back-sean-o-brien-criticism-drawn-series-new-zealand

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by eirebilly on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:39 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Indirectly he has made a few unwelcome comments directed directly at Howley and Gatland. They may well be correct but it never sits well with me when players have these little digs after the fact.
Not how I understand his comments at all:

“I wasn’t there on tour but I guess if he (O’Brien) is saying it and the authority he said it with, he’s probably right.

"For me to sit here and say the Lions would have probably won is wrong. But personally my opinion is that if Eddie Jones went as coach they would have won 3-0. He is that good.

“I don’t know how he would have done it, but Eddie would have found a way. Eddie has changed our mindset at England from always accepting we can’t always be too outspoken and confident and he’s really helped us a team to kick on.”

That's just praise for Jones, not indirect criticism of anyone.

Not making any comments against Vunipola, I was referring to SOB's comments...
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Sin é on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:39 am

eirebilly wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Further comments from sob to clarify things. We did some things well we. could have done better. We should have a better squad in 21. I paraphrase.
Anyone listening to the audio of his original interview, would know that he came across as a disapoointed man, rather than a bitter or angry player looking to settle scores.

Still, he's lucky he's not English. If an English player said what O'Brien said, the're would have been a far bigger backlash. As it is, Billy Vunipola is getting slammed, despite the fact he said nothing bad about anyone.

Indirectly he has made a few unwelcome comments directed directly at Howley and Gatland. They may well be correct but it never sits well with me when players have these little digs after the fact.

Gatland didn't learn from the 1st Test and proceeded to make the same mistake for the 3rd Test - overtrain. The chances are O'Brien might not make a 3rd Lions Tour so it must be a huge disappointment to him that they didn't win it when he knows that with better preparation they could have. The coaches have a responsibility to the players to prepare them as well as the players to prepare well. He said that it looked like the coaches were just doing a tick list.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Sin é on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:40 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:Must say its good to see John Spencer standing up for the coaching staff, especially three months after the tour.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/21/lions-manager-john-spencer-hits-back-sean-o-brien-criticism-drawn-series-new-zealand

He picked them, so he would. John Feehan (Lions CEO) also defended them, but I thought his word usage was interesting in that he said that the coaching staff were the best available.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Taylorman on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:42 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Geez what is it about these BODs and SOBs having a post Lions series SOB about the coach when they don't even lose?  SOB's lucky he didnt march himself and lose the series for them.

If I were him I'd be more concerned about his next match with the AB's where I'd say payback is on the cards, not that I wouldn't encourage that of course. boxing

Oh dear. OBrien would walk into the ABs side. Cane is a nuch dirtier player and the ABs are dirtier in general so you should be more concerned with your own sides poor dicipline.

Not worried about anything, other than for SOB to get his beans as payback. He'll keep. Whistle

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:43 am

eirebilly wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Indirectly he has made a few unwelcome comments directed directly at Howley and Gatland. They may well be correct but it never sits well with me when players have these little digs after the fact.
Not how I understand his comments at all:

“I wasn’t there on tour but I guess if he (O’Brien) is saying it and the authority he said it with, he’s probably right.

"For me to sit here and say the Lions would have probably won is wrong. But personally my opinion is that if Eddie Jones went as coach they would have won 3-0. He is that good.

“I don’t know how he would have done it, but Eddie would have found a way. Eddie has changed our mindset at England from always accepting we can’t always be too outspoken and confident and he’s really helped us a team to kick on.”

That's just praise for Jones, not indirect criticism of anyone.

Not making any comments against Vunipola, I was referring to SOB's comments...
Sorry, mate.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by eirebilly on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:45 am

Sin é wrote:

Gatland didn't learn from the 1st Test and proceeded to make the same mistake for the 3rd Test - overtrain. The chances are O'Brien might not make a 3rd Lions Tour so it must be a huge disappointment to him that they didn't win it when he knows that with better preparation they could have. The coaches have a responsibility to the players to prepare them as well as the players to prepare well. He said that it looked like the coaches were just doing a tick list.

As I said earlier Sin é, SOB may have very real points to make but I do not like him making them in the media after the fact. I am just a bit old school in believing these things should be kept in house or aired in a review after the Lions series (also done behind closed doors).

At the end of the day, the Lions went to NZ and drew a series against the best team in the world. I doubt that everything went smoothly on the tour but to come away with that result certainly says to me that the coaching set up did incredibly well. Its all a bit hindsight to say that things could have been better...
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Taylorman on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:47 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
chewed_mintie wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:I also think the Lions should have won the series

Based on what?

New Zealand were over rated at the time. They had cruised to victory in the rugby championship by a min of 20 plus points in every game and people thought they were better than they were. Its obvious now that their competition in that tournament was very very weak, it was obvious to me then too.

I thought going into the tour that the Lions had the players to dominate the ABs in the forwards in every game. I still think they should have as they have been dominated in the pack by NH sides on a number of occasions recently. I think the Lions failed enormously in this area and was pretty disappointing. Perhaps they had over trained?

New Zealand's discipline going into the series was very poor. With guys like Farrell, Halfpenny and Sexton I believe that the Lions could punish them. As expected NZ's discipline wasnt great but I was disappointed how bad the Lions discipline was.

Finally, its pretty obvious that the better NH sides are much better at defending than any of the rugby championship sides except maybe NZ. I think that key to beating NZ is defending really well for 80 mins and winning the breakdown and gain line battles. Having Andy Farrell was always going to give the Lions a decent defense. I think however, Gatland failed to get the best breakdown operators on the field for the Lions.

Give em an inch and they take a mile. Luckier with injury, cards and refs, and he takes the high road on a scrape...no idea.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by aucklandlaurie on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:48 am

Sin é wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Must say its good to see John Spencer standing up for the coaching staff, especially three months after the tour.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/21/lions-manager-john-spencer-hits-back-sean-o-brien-criticism-drawn-series-new-zealand

He picked them, so he would. John Feehan (Lions CEO) also defended them, but I thought his word usage was interesting in that he said that the coaching staff were the best available.


 If thats the case then SOB should have raised his concerns with Spencer during the tour, as it would have been the manager's role to have dealt with any player making such comments. Players also get an opportunity to raise issues in the post tour review, Not go out into the media where the coach has no chance of defending himself nor should have to.


Last edited by aucklandlaurie on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:49 am

Spencer thinks that Gatland is the best coach in the world....ok.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Rugby Fan on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:50 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:Must say its good to see John Spencer standing up for the coaching staff, especially three months after the tour.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/21/lions-manager-john-spencer-hits-back-sean-o-brien-criticism-drawn-series-new-zealand
John Spencer on Carwyn James, coach of the 1971 Lions:

I didn’t think he was the greatest coach. If you said that to JPR he’d think it was blasphemy, but I played under coaches who were better than he was. He was a great organiser and he was a great philosopher about the game but I thought he got quite a lot of it wrong. I might be on my own in that. He put me through clinics that were useless. Don’t put me in clinics to try and teach me to play on the wing because I’m not going to play there after this tour.

From what I recall, All Blacks like Sid Going didn't have much good to say about All Black coach Ivan Vodanovich after that series.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by yappysnap on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:52 am

Engine#4 wrote:Neither can I. Sometimes false humility comes off as transparently patronising. It's O'Brien's opinion and nobody here was in camp so can't really disagree.

This

Two teams trying to talk up each other, players trying to talk up opposition when you can see they clearly don't believe it and are reading a script.

SOB's comments are at least genuine.

Billy Vunipola's are a bit daft.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Taylorman on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:52 am

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
rodders wrote:
chewed_mintie wrote:Christ alive - they were lucky to escape with a drawn series against a team shorn of several key players and now they woulda won 3-0 if only they coulda, shoulda, blah, blah.....this is utter nonsense.

Totally agree mintie, I think SOB had a few too many bangs on the head over the summer. The Lions won one test when SBW got sent off.

I think Seanie is getting the Lions mixed up with Ireland, who'd probably have won 3-0 at Soldier Field.

Well, he did play against New Zealand rodders... Whistle

Well we know of at least one bang over the head he did. Clocks ticking....tick tock...

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:54 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
ebop wrote:
Only one of the tests had a decent referee and look how that turned out. When the two corrupt French referees got involved our worst fears played out as expected before the series. We knew they'd be terrible but what transpired at the end of Test 3 was mind blowing. Was this the 'making our own luck' that SOB mentions? Taking advantage of bent referee decisions and scraping together a drawn series?

Those are quite inflammatory accusations.

Those two referees are among the best in the world, far better than the likes of Nigel Owens. New Zealanders don't like them because they actually penalise their players and send them off. Something which gutless referees would never do.
Goodness gracious, that is the single most hilarious thing I've read on here this year Laugh

Thanks for that thumbsup
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Taylorman on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:57 am

Engine#4 wrote:Personally I prefer when sports stars have an opinion and are willing to express it. They are human.  

Thanks, it does get tough sometimes. Whistle

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by aucklandlaurie on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:58 am

Rugby Fan wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:Must say its good to see John Spencer standing up for the coaching staff, especially three months after the tour.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/sep/21/lions-manager-john-spencer-hits-back-sean-o-brien-criticism-drawn-series-new-zealand
John Spencer on Carwyn James, coach of the 1971 Lions:

I didn’t think he was the greatest coach. If you said that to JPR he’d think it was blasphemy, but I played under coaches who were better than he was. He was a great organiser and he was a great philosopher about the game but I thought he got quite a lot of it wrong. I might be on my own in that. He put me through clinics that were useless. Don’t put me in clinics to try and teach me to play on the wing because I’m not going to play there after this tour.

From what I recall, All Blacks like Sid Going didn't have much good to say about All Black coach Ivan Vodanovich after that series.

 What did Sid say?

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by ebop on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 10:00 am

yappysnap wrote:
Engine#4 wrote:Neither can I. Sometimes false humility comes off as transparently patronising. It's O'Brien's opinion and nobody here was in camp so can't really disagree.

This

Two teams trying to talk up each other, players trying to talk up opposition when you can see they clearly don't believe it and are reading a script.

SOB's comments are at least genuine.

Billy Vunipola's are a bit daft.
Yeah

It's great when sports star get all tough and talk big and blow smoke up their own bums

After they fail and draw a series
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Taylorman on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 10:01 am

Sin é wrote:
“The last Test, looking back, probably the start of the week annoyed me a little bit the way they [coaches] didn’t have us on the field, getting a little bit of info into us early in the week, then give us a bit of downtime plus it’d keep lads on the straight and narrow as well.”

But coming out of the series with a draw, it was a really good achievement?

“No. No. I think we should have won 3-0 with the players we had, we should have won the series,” O’Brien insists. “And, looking back, and I could be completely wrong, but if we had a little more structure during the weeks, and more of an attack game plan, as such, driven way earlier in the tour, I think we could win 3-0.”

That is what he said. I really can't see what is wrong with that. SOB is just a very straight talker. All players think they can win, otherwise they wouldn't bother competing. I can't see what your problem is with being honest.

Heres whats wrong with it...the use of should, should, could, if, could...

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by rodders on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 10:01 am

ebop wrote:And regarding SOB, who the f**k is he? Gatland wins a series in Australia and draws one in New Zealand. That's successful in my mind. This SOB guy just looks like an idiot.

Well if I recall SOB was the guy on the field who helped the Lions win and draw said series, Gats was the fat fella in the clown suit watching in the stands.
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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by LordDowlais on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 10:04 am

Christ.

The hatred for Warren Gatland from some of our Irish members on here is very unhealthy, even disturbing. In the words of Frozen.

"LET IT GO !!!"

Life is short.

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 22 Sep 2017, 10:12 am

LordDowlais wrote:Christ.

The hatred for Warren Gatland from some of our Irish members on here is very unhealthy, even disturbing. In the words of Frozen.

"LET IT GO !!!"

Life is short.

Its not hatred Dowlais. Im Irish and dont hate him at all. I think given he was the man in the hot seat he is fair game for some criticism. The Wales players are hardly going to be to ones to pipe up are they?

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Re: Sean O'Brien on the Lions

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