Sean O'Brien on the Lions

by **Rugby Fan** Wed 20 Sep 2017, 11:53 pm

First topic message reminder :

Although there might now be some headlines saying "O'Brien Blasts Lions Coaches", I don't think there's anything bitter or malicious about what he's saying. Off the Ball has audio here:

http://www.offtheball.com/Sean-OBrien-The-Lions-should-have-beaten-the-All-Blacks-comfortably-enough-new-zealand

He clearly has mixed feeling about how the tour turned out, and is trying identify where things might have gone better. His comments about over training before the first Test echo the criticism made about Graham Henry's tour in 2001.

“The first week, we definitely over-trained on the Thursday and maybe the coaches were panicking a little bit about getting the information into us. On the first week [of the first Test], we had a triple [session] day, [the] lads’ legs were heavy on the Thursday and we were playing the All Blacks on Saturday.

“We did nearly a similar thing in the last week. So maybe it’s more [from] a coaching point of view, in terms of taking lessons. Less is more sometimes on a tour like that, rather than trying to pick things up at the end of the week.

“There was probably no need for that but it’s just the way it was managed. We had said it, at the time, and they pulled back a bit. But it’s just about getting that fine balance between players and coaches and making sure the group is ready to rock.”

O'Brien says Rob Howley was unable to impose himself on the squad, and he thinks the backs were guided instead by Sexton and Farrell. If so, then that may be one factor behind Gatland's eventual decision to play both men together.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/09/20/lions-coaching-staff-blame-new-zealand-series-defeat-says-sean/

by mikey_dragon Fri 22 Sep 2017, 3:09 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:So why would a Welsh player also agreeing howley wasnt able to communicate effectively make any sort of fallout from irish and English posters? I've read a fair few comments from Welsh fans saying similar. I think you may have been one of them though I may be wrong.

Because he's Welsh and his name is AWJ - that's more than enough.

by Scottrf Fri 22 Sep 2017, 3:21 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.
Wahhhh a story that's not about the Welsh?

The fall out has been quite big. The difference in the Irish have criticised SOB, whereas you wouldn't criticise AWJ if he defecated in your cereal.

It is about the Welsh isn't it? You know with the way the usual morons keep using it to slag off the Welsh (I quote), team Wales, etc and nothing getting done about it.

Well it's mainly about an Irish guy and a New Zealander, with a shot at a Welshman who I don't even think Welsh fans rate.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 22 Sep 2017, 3:25 pm

Wouldn't be more likely to end with even jones says howley is poor mikey? Was it you who said you don't rate howley?

by mikey_dragon Fri 22 Sep 2017, 3:26 pm

Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.
Wahhhh a story that's not about the Welsh?

The fall out has been quite big. The difference in the Irish have criticised SOB, whereas you wouldn't criticise AWJ if he defecated in your cereal.

It is about the Welsh isn't it? You know with the way the usual morons keep using it to slag off the Welsh (I quote), team Wales, etc and nothing getting done about it.
Well it's mainly about an Irish guy and a New Zealander, with a shot at a Welshman who I don't even think Welsh fans rate.

But SOB is also criticising the whole Lions, although I agree with him 100% on the amateur Howley - the guy has been buying a career off Galtand for years. #mates

by eirebilly Fri 22 Sep 2017, 3:31 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.

Care to quantify that statement?

As an Irish fan I was not impressed with SOB making the statements he did. If AWJ made the same statements, I would be as equally unimpressed. Why you simply try to force almost every statement on this sight as a slight against Wales, or the Welsh in general, is totally beyond me.

by mikey_dragon Fri 22 Sep 2017, 3:49 pm

eirebilly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.

Care to quantify that statement?

As an Irish fan I was not impressed with SOB making the statements he did. If AWJ made the same statements, I would be as equally unimpressed. Why you simply try to force almost every statement on this sight as a slight against Wales, or the Welsh in general, is totally beyond me.

Check comments from BamBam and Rodders earlier in this thread, and then check the last 6 months - you'll have all the evidence you need thumbsup

. Why some people take issue with me telling the truth is quite baffling.

by No 7&1/2 Fri 22 Sep 2017, 3:52 pm

I think bam bam once said that Jones wasn't world class anymore. string him up.

by eirebilly Fri 22 Sep 2017, 3:53 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.

Care to quantify that statement?

As an Irish fan I was not impressed with SOB making the statements he did. If AWJ made the same statements, I would be as equally unimpressed. Why you simply try to force almost every statement on this sight as a slight against Wales, or the Welsh in general, is totally beyond me.

Check comments from BamBam and Rodders earlier in this thread, and then check the last 6 months - you'll have all the evidence you need . Why some people take issue with me telling the truth is quite baffling.

No, you generalised the Irish and the English, you did not mention specific posters.

It does come across a lot that you try to look for anything in any post that could be a slight against the Welsh and go off on one.

by **rodders** Fri 22 Sep 2017, 4:01 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.

Care to quantify that statement?

As an Irish fan I was not impressed with SOB making the statements he did. If AWJ made the same statements, I would be as equally unimpressed. Why you simply try to force almost every statement on this sight as a slight against Wales, or the Welsh in general, is totally beyond me.

Check comments from BamBam and Rodders earlier in this thread, and then check the last 6 months - you'll have all the evidence you need . Why some people take issue with me telling the truth is quite baffling.

It's true Billy I hate Wales, if that bum AWJ made the same comments I'd be outraged.

by BamBam Fri 22 Sep 2017, 4:06 pm

I'd also be outraged if that donkey AWJ ran his mouth like that

If he put as much energy into running on the pitch we'd have won 3-0

by BamBam Fri 22 Sep 2017, 4:08 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think bam bam once said that Jones wasn't world class anymore. string him up.

Don't misquote me No 7.5

I actually said he was always a donkey that was never remotely world class

by No 7&1/2 Fri 22 Sep 2017, 4:09 pm

Sorry!

by **Rugby Fan** Fri 22 Sep 2017, 5:24 pm

One of the oddest things about this episode, is that Sean O'Brien spoke at length with Luke Fitzgerald on an earlier podcast, where he said the same thing about overtraining, but it didn't create a stir.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/the-left-wing/the-left-wing-podcast-luke-fitzgerald-chats-to-sean-obrien-about-his-lions-heroics-and-why-he-decided-to-speak-up-on-tour-36132454.html

by mikey_dragon Fri 22 Sep 2017, 5:25 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:I think bam bam once said that Jones wasn't world class anymore. string him up.

And I used to think it was just your posting style that was moronic. I said the usuals were using this to slag off Wales, the Welsh which is what usually happens. It's long been a trend and the mods are happy for it to continue - probably the reason why most Welsh posters don't come on here any more.

BamBam wrote:I don't see it as being bitter from SOB either. I see a player with a winner's mentality having the knowledge and experience of the international game to be able to pick out the areas that could have been improved on that could/should have led to a series win

I expect he'll be blasted as being bitter for not celebrating a draw like our friends across the Severn bridge

BamBam wrote:
the-goon wrote:Well this makes the Ireland v Wales game even more spicy.

Good, hope the Welsh will decide the Irish game is their world cup final rather than England every year

BamBam wrote:
rodders wrote:I think the issue is the Irish, Scottish and English generally don't like being told what to do whereas people from the principality are a bit more comfortable with it, so Gats autocratic style doesn't go down too well outside of Wales.

Not sure I entirely agree with O'Brien though about the Lions winning 3-0 sans Gats but training hard on the Thursday before the test and not taking players input is a bit boneheaded to be honest.

Some would say its the sheep mentality in Wales

BamBam wrote:Fairly sure some on here have wet dreams about AWJ defecating in their cereal

All this amongst his inane ramblings with LD, which is pretty much every comment these days. I can't debate with BamBam either, he acts like some big kid when you disagree with him.

by mikey_dragon Fri 22 Sep 2017, 5:28 pm

eirebilly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.

Care to quantify that statement?

As an Irish fan I was not impressed with SOB making the statements he did. If AWJ made the same statements, I would be as equally unimpressed. Why you simply try to force almost every statement on this sight as a slight against Wales, or the Welsh in general, is totally beyond me.

Check comments from BamBam and Rodders earlier in this thread, and then check the last 6 months - you'll have all the evidence you need . Why some people take issue with me telling the truth is quite baffling.

No, you generalised the Irish and the English, you did not mention specific posters.

It does come across a lot that you try to look for anything in any post that could be a slight against the Welsh and go off on one.

Yes in repose to the generalisations about the Welsh on every thread. But that's okay with you I guess, and everyone else it seems. it's become a theme with particular posters and it's happening on multiple threads. When I mention the truth about it you get people denying it - it reminds me of people denying the earth is round even with the abundance of evidence that they have. I guess from now on I'll just refer to the English and Irish as the flat-earthers!

by aucklandlaurie Fri 22 Sep 2017, 5:34 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:I cannot recall reading/hearing these comments of Sid's before, how long after the tour were they made? If it was an extract from his biography (Super Sid) that was written 7 years later which is a lot different to 3 months.
They are in a book on the 1971 series published this year. Some of the quotes are contemporary, and some later (Gordon Brown is in there, and he died in 2001). I don't think it was in the culture of rugby back then to credit or blame coaches for wins as we do now; players accepted the responsibility themselves for the most part (it was a bit of a sea change that Carwyn James got so much public acclaim for his role during the series).

Bryan Williams on Vodanovich:

It would be fair to say Ivan wasn’t a great coach, but he was a very nice person, a very caring sort of guy who wanted the best for the team – but he’d been thrown in at the deep end as well, because once Fred Allen retired, I don’t think the New Zealand Rugby Union had much of a succession plan in place. He was just kind of dropped into the head-coach role because he’d been one of the selectors and had been around the team. One of the things he struggled with most was getting his message across. When it came to explaining exactly what he wanted, he would struggle.

Fergie McCormick criticized his training after the First Test in the earlier Springbok series:

After the first Test, we had a bit of a drinking session, and the following day we really paid for it. It started at Kruger Park. We went out into a sun as hot as fifty thousand bastards and Ivan put us through a run. Our manager, Ron Burk, had ripped into us for hitting the grog too much and it was maybe his call that we were put through the hoops. Or it might have been an overreaction to the Test loss. But my God, we hadn’t lost the Test because we weren’t fit or because we were slopping with beer. We’d lost it because the Springboks had out-thought us, planned more intelligently than us and then outplayed us. At Kruger, we deserved a couple of days of relaxation. What happened was unwarranted. It was brutal. It was insane. The players would have appreciated the opportunity to mull over tactics with Ivan and Ron, but there was none of that. The relationship between the management and the players took a sharp downturn.

Bearing in mind, this happened:

South Africa won that third Test 14–3. They’d win the fourth Test as well, a 20–17 victory in Johannesburg, where rumours of discontent about Vodanovich cranked up another notch. There was an incident in Potchefstroom that caused rancour in the camp. Grizz Wyllie and his Canterbury mate, the prop Alister Hopkinson, pulled a prank on Vodanovich that cost them their place in the Test side.
The players were standing at the bottom of the hotel stairs having a chat when Vodanovich came rushing through, heading for the revolving doors. For reasons known only to himself, Grizz stuck out a leg and tripped him, and Vodanovich ended up in a heap on the floor.
The coach said that, by way of punishment, no Canterbury player would be selected for the fourth Test. Everybody presumed that Vodanovich was joking, but he was serious. Wyllie and Hopkinson were dropped, as was their Canterbury mate, Fergie McCormick. It caused a rift, and that rift needed to be healed.

That Sprinbok series defeat led a lot of veteran players to retire, slightly disillusioned. Arguably, that was an advantage when the Lions came over. Vodanovich didn't want to send out an inexperienced side, so he kept some older players past their sell-by date, or asked them to play when they were unfit.

At least Vodanovich had the opportunity of not selecting Wylie, an opportunity SOB didnt make available to Gatland.

Where I come from on this, is that no player is bigger than the coach as the coach also is part of the team, and no player is bigger than the team. whereas ex-players are just like us, they can express an opinion of ex-coaches and vice versa.

Thanx for digging up those examples, nothing wrong with a bit of drinking and a bit of horsing around.

by mikey_dragon Fri 22 Sep 2017, 5:35 pm

Lol so the serial complainer thinks generalisations about the Welsh are okay, but when it's done back they start crying wolf.

Some people Doh

by eirebilly Fri 22 Sep 2017, 5:44 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Where I come from on this, is that no player is bigger than the coach as the coach also is part of the team, and no player is bigger than the team. whereas ex-players are just like us, they can express an opinion of ex-coaches and vice versa.

I have to agree with this. I have always been taught that you keep things 'in house' whilst part of a team or tour. I have absolutely nothing against SOB's comments but I believe they should have either been aired whilst on tour with the management or after the tour in the review. I dislike things like this being said in the media. The coaches involved (Gatland and Howley) have not come out with any disparaging comments against players on the tour or their individual performances.

As said earlier, I am sure that the tour had its ups and downs with not everyone agreeing with everyone else but at the end of they day the result was a drawn series against the best team in the world in their own backyard. To me that says that the coaching team did far more right than wrong.

by thebandwagonsociety Fri 22 Sep 2017, 5:58 pm

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Nobody should be told to stay quiet in the interest of the greater good.
Nobody should be told to stay quiet because their opinion differs for anothers.
They can be disagreed with.
They can be argued right and wrong over time.
They can even be ridiculed or congratulated.
But to tell someone they shouldn't voice their opinion. Those kind of snowflakes and SJWs can take a long walk off a short pier..

by No 7&1/2 Fri 22 Sep 2017, 8:03 pm

Unless it's a racist far right bull yeah.

by Rory_Gallagher Fri 22 Sep 2017, 9:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Unless it's a racist far right bull yeah.

Yeah, I don't think bulls are entitled to free speech.

Humans should be, though, regardless of how deplorable you consider their opinions to be. When you add a "but" or "unless" you don't believe in freedom of speech. Which is the most dangerous position of all and actually creates more nefarious enemies.

by Taylorman Sat 23 Sep 2017, 12:28 am

Now Vunipolas in on it, saying Eddie at the helm would have cleanswept the ABs.

These woulda coulda fullas are funny.

One day theyll actually do what they shoulda done.

Amazing what a drawn series does for the after series confidence.

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 23 Sep 2017, 12:55 am

Taylorman wrote:Now Vunipolas in on it

Vunipola's words have been quoted twice already in this thread. He didn't have a crack at anyone, just gave a big vote of confidence to his own coach.

As he pointed out, he wasn't on the tour, so can't speak for what happened on it.

by Guest Sat 23 Sep 2017, 1:04 am

Reckon the ABs would clean sweep England 10-0 home or away. Probably even 20-0 but I don't want to enter into SOB and Vunipola territory with bombastic talk and be accused of arrogance.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 23 Sep 2017, 6:25 am

I don't agree with freedom of speech then rory. Fortunately I don't live in the USA!

by Gwlad Sat 23 Sep 2017, 7:29 am

BamBam wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Imagine if AWJ said this about the Lions, the fallout from the English and Irish on here would be unreal.
Wahhhh a story that's not about the Welsh?

The fall out has been quite big. The difference in the Irish have criticised SOB, whereas you wouldn't criticise AWJ if he defecated in your cereal.

Fairly sure some on here have wet dreams about AWJ defecating in their cereal

you being at least 1 of them

by TightHEAD Sat 23 Sep 2017, 8:40 am

I take it Gatland will not be retained as Lions coach next time, as Howler comes as part of hat package.

by eirebilly Sat 23 Sep 2017, 9:19 am

Gatland probably wont be the Lions coach in 4 years mainly because I feel he will be the AB coach then. If not, why would he not be retained as Lions coach? He is one of the most successful Lions coaches there has been and one of the best coaches in the world.

Like or loath Howley, they do work well together as a coaching unit. I would have no issue with Gatland being the Lions head coach again.

by lostinwales Sat 23 Sep 2017, 11:05 am

ebop wrote:Reckon the ABs would clean sweep England 10-0 home or away. Probably even 20-0 but I don't want to enter into SOB and Vunipola territory with bombastic talk and be accused of arrogance.

Way way way too late for that. Anyway surely the results would depend on who the referee's were?

by Guest Sat 23 Sep 2017, 12:45 pm

lostinwales wrote:
ebop wrote:Reckon the ABs would clean sweep England 10-0 home or away. Probably even 20-0 but I don't want to enter into SOB and Vunipola territory with bombastic talk and be accused of arrogance.

Way way way too late for that. Anyway surely the results would depend on who the referee's were?

You mean England could stand a chance with corrupt referees?

by eirebilly Sat 23 Sep 2017, 1:14 pm

Just a quick one ebop, in you world have the AB's ever lost a match where you think that the referee was not corrupt? I seen some bitter losers but my god man, you are in a league of your own thumbsup

by No 7&1/2 Sat 23 Sep 2017, 1:29 pm

Of course they have. Involved food poisoning.

by eirebilly Sat 23 Sep 2017, 1:31 pm

Forgot about that one Very Happy

Seriously though, there are some very good AB fans out there so I should not see ebop as the typical AB fan. thumbsup

by Guest Sat 23 Sep 2017, 1:34 pm

eirebilly wrote:Just a quick one ebop, in you world have the AB's ever lost a match where you think that the referee was not corrupt? I seen some bitter losers but my god man, you are in a league of your own

Cheers mate. Not bitter though, you misread the situation thumbsup

by eirebilly Sat 23 Sep 2017, 1:36 pm

ebop wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Just a quick one ebop, in you world have the AB's ever lost a match where you think that the referee was not corrupt? I seen some bitter losers but my god man, you are in a league of your own
Cheers mate. Not bitter though, you misread the situation

Still haven't answered the question though Wink

by Guest Sat 23 Sep 2017, 1:39 pm

Yes eirebilly. Teams have beaten the ABs because they were the better team on the day.

by Guest Sat 23 Sep 2017, 1:42 pm

Now your turn. Do you think Poite got it right when he said the Lions forward accidentally handled the ball but it was not a penalty?

by eirebilly Sat 23 Sep 2017, 1:45 pm

I have never seen you actually admit the AB's ever lost to a better team. Would love to actually know what matches you are referring to as every time they have lost, you have been on here finding some excuse (mainly ref's).

Yes, I do believe Poite got it wrong. Like many ref's he makes mistakes, much like the mistake he made in not penalising the AB's prior to them even being in that position. Its part of the game, you hate it when it goes against you and smile when you get away with one.

by mikey_dragon Sat 23 Sep 2017, 1:48 pm

ebop wrote:Yes eirebilly. Teams have beaten the ABs because they were the better team on the day.

According to everyone bar NZ, Wales were the better team on the day in 1953...

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 23 Sep 2017, 3:36 pm

I'm not going to make sweeping judgements about a player based on one thing he said. I recall Andrew Mehrtens saying England were "pr*cks to lose to". If that's an example of a New Zealand player respecting his opponents, then we have a very different understanding of the term.

Typical arrogant All Black, I thought at the time, but, subsequently, I've found him an interesting, and amusing pundit. He even revisited that comment in a piece last time England toured New Zealand:

I once described the English as ''pricks to lose to'' and at the time I hadn't even lost a test to them. But that was the sort of feeling they used to engender in the All Blacks...Eventually experience taught me there were good guys in English rugby, as in all teams, and I've forged some very good friendships with men who once wore the red rose...

...In 1999 we turned up at the World Cup in this flash plane painted black, with players' faces emblazoned on the side, and it was probably no wonder other nations reacted the way they did to us losing. They probably thought we were pretty arrogant.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/10088398/Mehrtens-England-still-No-1-enemy

by aucklandlaurie Sat 23 Sep 2017, 4:41 pm

eirebilly wrote:I have never seen you actually admit the AB's ever lost to a better team. Would love to actually know what matches you are referring to as every time they have lost, you have been on here finding some excuse (mainly ref's).

Yes, I do believe Poite got it wrong. Like many ref's he makes mistakes, much like the mistake he made in not penalising the AB's prior to them even being in that position. Its part of the game, you hate it when it goes against you and smile when you get away with one.

Billy have a look at Ebop's post immediately after Ireland's victory over the All Blacks last year, he was gracious, complimentary of Ireland's performance on the day and that they were the better team and deserved the victory.

Then compare that to the uncomplimentary, ungracious, bitter, and demands that half the all Blacks should be cited and banned because they had the audacity to defeat Ireland two weeks later in Dublin.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 23 Sep 2017, 5:21 pm

No. They should have been cited and were.

by aucklandlaurie Sat 23 Sep 2017, 5:27 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:No. They should have been cited and were.

Why should they have been cited, they did nothing wrong? Well apart from defeat Ireland that is.

by Gwlad Sat 23 Sep 2017, 5:28 pm

SOB is a SOB.

by Rory_Gallagher Sat 23 Sep 2017, 5:38 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I have never seen you actually admit the AB's ever lost to a better team. Would love to actually know what matches you are referring to as every time they have lost, you have been on here finding some excuse (mainly ref's).

Yes, I do believe Poite got it wrong. Like many ref's he makes mistakes, much like the mistake he made in not penalising the AB's prior to them even being in that position. Its part of the game, you hate it when it goes against you and smile when you get away with one.

Billy have a look at Ebop's post immediately after Ireland's victory over the All Blacks last year, he was gracious, complimentary of Ireland's performance on the day and that they were the better team and deserved the victory.

Then compare that to the uncomplimentary, ungracious, bitter, and demands that half the all Blacks should be cited and banned because they had the audacity to defeat Ireland two weeks later in Dublin.

The great thing about the internet is that people can search for the match thread you are talking about and find that you are talking utter nonsense.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 23 Sep 2017, 5:40 pm

Well we know that there have been inconsistent rulings in high tackles Auckland. Cane got off but players cited for similar incidents got bans. Seems to have leveled off now. Think the other guy got a few games ban didn't he?

by aucklandlaurie Sat 23 Sep 2017, 5:47 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Well we know that there have been inconsistent rulings in high tackles Auckland. Cane got off but players cited for similar incidents got bans. Seems to have leveled off now. Think the other guy got a few games ban didn't he?

The point was that the Irish Anti - Kiwi brigade were bad losers because new Zealand beat them in the return match in Dublin.

by No 7&1/2 Sat 23 Sep 2017, 5:54 pm

Some may well have been but it wasn't shown by the call for citings. They were correct.

by Guest Sat 23 Sep 2017, 9:15 pm

Thanks Laurie, yes us AB fans more than acknowledged and congratulated Ireland's victory in Chicago. Some in NZ even went so far as to celebrate Ireland's win which I thought was taking it a bit far. But then Dublin happened, and wow, what a contrast. Every insult under the sun came out and it was disappointing to witness universal next level bitterness. Never mind, guess it went to show even the Irish can be poor losers.

by Taylorman Sat 23 Sep 2017, 9:54 pm

eirebilly wrote:Gatland probably wont be the Lions coach in 4 years mainly because I feel he will be the AB coach then. If not, why would he not be retained as Lions coach? He is one of the most successful Lions coaches there has been and one of the best coaches in the world.

Like or loath Howley, they do work well together as a coaching unit. I would have no issue with Gatland being the Lions head coach again.

He could be, and prior to this series few NZers would have thought have a chance. Whats against him is the way the panel 'sheds its skin' these days, those on the panel eventually taking over after a long time in the passenger seat, Hansen there for eight years and now Foster six looks to be taking over. Its a proven system.

Gatland wont walk in as head coach, far too big a learning curve and shock to the system, and hed have to take a back seat for a while, meaning hed have to check his ego.

Though if hes smart he'll welcome that, learning the NZ game again from the top down, adding to his player and Waikato coaching experience.

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