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Post by Holymiky on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 2:07 pm

Okay, so with the JAV2 League closing due to lack of pure interest and maybe some rules which people didn’t get along with, we have decided to close it.

We have been speaking on the Facebook chat (we need to divert it onto here) about an idea of just starting as basic of a league as possible however this will involve more money and will involve less people hopefully as i want to run it and if I am to do so, I ideally only want people to sign up if they know they are able to commit to it.

We are still talking about ideas of course but any suggestions will be welcome. At the moment I think we discussed a draft style start being given random players with a smaller squad and making it so that we still have something to build but with more money per game/voting week with more than one voter each week however I think the feeling was to revert back to older style leagues with opinions and a score from each voter but again, this is still to be discussed.

This topic is purely to generate interest, I will give everyone until the end of Thursday (Midnight) to decide if they want in or not. As previously mentioned, we only want people who are dedicated and willing to commit otherwise there is simply no point as harsh as it sounds.

IN:

Miky
Marky
Olly
Trebs
Nando
Hero
Afro
Bam
Twist
Tino


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Post by Holymiky on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 3:30 pm

To be honest, my initial plan was to get an old school type league going

Maybe 6-8 teams? Depending on sign ups.

Have half vote each week, with old feedback (you don’t have to add much to it if you don’t want to but ideally some) and voting system (just simple scoring) – with this you would only have to vote on like 2-3 games each week depending on what system we go for in terms of fixtures because voter wouldn’t have a game if we went with the old school way.

Have teams randomly assigned so say we have 6 people

You inherit that squad. So say I was given Marseille for example – I have to use that team, we could even make it smaller in terms of squad size and pick the best 25 players or something from that current squad.

Money wise you would get £1.5m for tactics ON TIME and £1.5m for Voting  = More money into the league making people happier and it’s easier to improve squads

I was thinking of saying in the league that we only need 5 subs if we go with 25 squad size as we can only use 3 subs anyway and this makes injuries easier to handle but we can either stick with 4 injuries or 3 maybe?

TP’s im torn on anywhere between 2-4 a week would be fine IMO – We would get lawyer offers again but we could do 2 like we used to and have one at a lower percentage and one at a higher percentage maybe?

That’s all I’ve got for now.

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Post by Marky on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 6:56 pm

To be fair even in real life Subs benches are a MAXIMUM of 7, so just leave it at that. If I chose to only name three Subs that would be on me.

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Post by Marky on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 6:56 pm

Also I'm in.

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Post by Holymiky on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 9:29 pm

Decided to do a draft style start, will be myself putting a lot of work into making squads once we have the confirmed amount. Will be trying to even it out as best i can.

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Post by Marky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 9:48 am

So who else is in?

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 10:45 am

Holymiky wrote:Decided to do a draft style start, will be myself putting a lot of work into making squads once we have the confirmed amount. Will be trying to even it out as best i can.

From experience, I would avoid a draft. It is more fun initially, but once the draft is complete, it tends to lose it's energy.
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 10:46 am

I shall participate
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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:17 am

I didnt want a draft initially Afro but I also dont mind if we do and people were quite interested in it so I just went with it.

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:33 am

Perhaps you could do a draft and then switch all the teams around randomly somehow.

That way you get the fun on a draft system, and people still wanting to sell players afterwards
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Post by Fernando on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:52 am

Id be interested if the silly voting system was dropped. I like drafts but then no one wants to sell anyone at all.

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:54 am

My suggestion rather than drafts or assigned teams were pots of players.

So if there's 8 people taking part there's a pot of 8 keepers: De Gea, Neuer, Donnarumma, Buffon, Courtois, Navas, Oblak, Lloris for example.
They're then randomly allocated to everyone. Everyone gets a decent player but there's also opportunity to swap etc once teams are done to get the player they actually wanted.

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:54 am

I'd be interested if 1) the voting system is simple, 2) it is a league where we get deals happening and not just, sell to lawyers, buy from TPs, repeat and 3) the focus is on getting the banter going on the site again.

Oh and 4) Miky gets his hair cut like Dele Alli
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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:58 am

Hero wrote:My suggestion rather than drafts or assigned teams were pots of players.

So if there's 8 people taking part there's a pot of 8 keepers: De Gea, Neuer, Donnarumma, Buffon, Courtois, Navas, Oblak, Lloris for example.
They're then randomly allocated to everyone. Everyone gets a decent player but there's also opportunity to swap etc once teams are done to get the player they actually wanted.

Not sure about the need to get decent players straight up. It's getting the difficult balance of starting with squads with lower standard players, and it not becoming a "stockbroker" league to use Treb's phrase.

What about the old template of 6,7,8 teams (depending on number of managers) with similar value on TM.com, and then a small draft where you get £xm budget to add a few more (2 or 3 perhaps?)


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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:58 am

Afro's second point is the crucial one for me.
Can we get a system that makes transfermarkt irrelevant?

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 11:59 am

I'm all up for a simpler voting system, but I'm also against minority voting due to previous leagues *cough*

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Post by Fernando on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:00 pm

Well if you ran like lower standard teams id be happy to run as transfer person so chuck in bids and ill reject/accept/negotiate them pretty much did that for the WWA Laugh

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:01 pm

Not overly sure why there's always an obsession to go with the low low quality start, all that ever ends up with is 1 or 2 people working the system asap and them shooting ahead and everyone else losing interest.

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:02 pm

Trebs wrote:Afro's second point is the crucial one for me.
Can we get a system that makes transfermarkt irrelevant?

Crucial after point 4 I assume?
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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:03 pm

Hero wrote:Not overly sure why there's always an obsession to go with the low low quality start, all that ever ends up with is 1 or 2 people working the system asap and them shooting ahead and everyone else losing interest.

You go middle ground then?
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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:03 pm

Transfer wise I'd say a system in which players can be bought if they have a quality source linking a move for the player in RL ie a broadsheet, BBC, Sky etc.

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:03 pm

Afro wrote:
Hero wrote:Not overly sure why there's always an obsession to go with the low low quality start, all that ever ends up with is 1 or 2 people working the system asap and them shooting ahead and everyone else losing interest.

You go middle ground then?

Yeah, not bargain basement anymore.

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Post by Fernando on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:04 pm

Hero wrote:Transfer wise I'd say a system in which players can be bought if they have a quality source linking a move for the player in RL ie a broadsheet, BBC, Sky etc.

That never really works though cos people will go oh it's the sun or the mirror or some random sh*te from Germany Laugh

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:05 pm

Fernando wrote:
Hero wrote:Transfer wise I'd say a system in which players can be bought if they have a quality source linking a move for the player in RL ie a broadsheet, BBC, Sky etc.

That never really works though cos people will go oh it's the sun or the mirror or some random sh*te from Germany Laugh

You define what is a acceptable source then.
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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:07 pm

Afro wrote:
Hero wrote:My suggestion rather than drafts or assigned teams were pots of players.

So if there's 8 people taking part there's a pot of 8 keepers: De Gea, Neuer, Donnarumma, Buffon, Courtois, Navas, Oblak, Lloris for example.
They're then randomly allocated to everyone. Everyone gets a decent player but there's also opportunity to swap etc once teams are done to get the player they actually wanted.

Not sure about the need to get decent players straight up. It's getting the difficult balance of starting with squads with lower standard players, and it not becoming a "stockbroker" league to use Treb's phrase.

What about the old template of 6,7,8 teams (depending on number of managers) with similar value on TM.com, and then a small draft where you get £xm budget to add a few more (2 or 3 perhaps?)
Issue with that is similar to what we've just had in that the teams used were all of similar value but some teams just are undervalued, we used Leipzig and Watford in there, think at the time Watford were actually higher in value but clearly in hindsight Leipzig had a number of players worth a damn sight more than Watford.

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:09 pm

I spoke with Marky last night to run some ideas past him and it wqs decided in my head that I would go for an initial 4-2-3-1 formation and select players for each position to fill 25. On Tm the similar player part comes up at the side when you look at a profile.

So I would go through snd make a squad based on that formation then allocate the team once picked to a manager, if needed someone could pick my one first so no questions were asked about trust..

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:13 pm

Holymiky wrote:I spoke with Marky last night to run some ideas past him and it wqs decided in my head that I would go for an initial 4-2-3-1 formation and select players for each position to fill 25. On Tm the similar player part comes up at the side when you look at a profile.

So I would go through snd make a squad based on that formation then allocate the team once picked to a manager, if needed someone could pick my one first so no questions were asked about trust..

Bit of work, but not a terrible idea. You then send a list of all the squads, with a number assigned to each, to someone else (say Marky), and then ask a third person to randomly allocate each manager with a number.
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Post by Fernando on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:13 pm

Afro wrote:
Fernando wrote:
Hero wrote:Transfer wise I'd say a system in which players can be bought if they have a quality source linking a move for the player in RL ie a broadsheet, BBC, Sky etc.

That never really works though cos people will go oh it's the sun or the mirror or some random sh*te from Germany Laugh

You define what is a acceptable source then.

Literally none of them Laugh They all make up Love sacks at the best of times.

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:14 pm

How do we feel about the suggestion, I think Hero liked it yesterday

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:16 pm

Sources wise

Allowed

BBC
Sky Sports
Telegraph
Guardian
Times
Independent
Manchester Evening News
Liverpool Echo
London Evening Standard

Disallowed

Sun
Mirror
Star
Express
Mail
Metro
Caughtoffside
Talksport
Goal
ESPN

Any others?

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:17 pm

Holymiky wrote:How do we feel about the suggestion, I think Hero liked it yesterday
That all sounds fine to me

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:18 pm

Not the BBC Gossip column though

These twitter feeds? (although some as club specific)

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/19-reliable-transfer-accounts-you-need-follow-twitter
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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:20 pm

Hero wrote:
Holymiky wrote:How do we feel about the suggestion, I think Hero liked it yesterday
That all sounds fine to me
Think the only thing that initially springs to mind is basing it on values is then taking into account depreciation and expected growth of players, Timo Werner for example is 3m cheaper than Christian Benteke.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:20 pm

Good idea maggle
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Post by BamBam on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:20 pm

Liverpool Echo and MEN are as reliable as my poo schedule was after the Thai curry I had on Sunday night

Ie not very

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:20 pm

Afro wrote:Not the BBC Gossip column though

These twitter feeds? (although some as club specific)

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/19-reliable-transfer-accounts-you-need-follow-twitter
No as the gossip columns then refer to the original source ala Daily Star etc.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:23 pm

Let Nando be the transfer dictator I say
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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:26 pm

We should all start with PL clubs in that case.

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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:27 pm

Can you get football observatory values of every player? Or FIFA career mode values?

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:32 pm

Miky's made up squads and Nando as a transfer dictator don't really fit together.
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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:33 pm

We are likely to have similar issues to tm with that as some players wont have the corect values

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:34 pm

Trebs wrote:Can you get football observatory values of every player? Or FIFA career mode values?
Wouldn't it always though end up in the same predicament of what happens with TM?
Some people buy younger players that are obviously considered future prospects, they improve and their values rocket, it's what happens in RL ala Mbappe/Dembele this summer.

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:35 pm

Who is in favour of tm and who isnt yay or nay

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:38 pm

I don't mind TM as it's an impartial playing field that isn't influenced by us. If some people play it better than others than it's not their fault but the others for not thinking as an actual real football club does and invest in quality prospects to then make profit on.
If people did a change from it though then I'd want to see the options of alternatives.

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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:38 pm

I'm dead against a league where it's based on finding players for TM updates.

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:40 pm

Having 1 person deciding transfers being allowed or not I'm not a fan of, it's what's done in the LSTD league and the rules laid down on it are supposedly meant to be reflective of RL when in reality RL throws up far more curveballs such as Ruben Neves to Wolves etc.

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:42 pm

Hero wrote:
Trebs wrote:Can you get football observatory values of every player? Or FIFA career mode values?
Wouldn't it always though end up in the same predicament of what happens with TM?
Some people buy younger players that are obviously considered future prospects, they improve and their values rocket, it's what happens in RL ala Mbappe/Dembele this summer.

I think using TM is the best option. it has clear weaknesses, but we probably need to accept those and deal with the "stockbroking" approach in another way.

Such as having a big enough gap between lawyers and TPs values - TPs at TM+20%, Lawyers at TM-20%?

If you buy a player worth £10m, he would cost you £12m. His value would then need to go up to £15m before you made a profit. Is a 50% increase sufficient to stop this approach. Players going up more than that is not that common
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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:43 pm

Trebs wrote:I'm dead against a league where it's based on finding players for TM updates.
What's better though?
Yes it's argued it becomes a stock market, but in RL clubs invest in young players as they make profits on them. How do you have a system in which that doesn't happen?

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:46 pm

Afro wrote:
Hero wrote:
Trebs wrote:Can you get football observatory values of every player? Or FIFA career mode values?
Wouldn't it always though end up in the same predicament of what happens with TM?
Some people buy younger players that are obviously considered future prospects, they improve and their values rocket, it's what happens in RL ala Mbappe/Dembele this summer.

I think using TM is the best option. it has clear weaknesses, but we probably need to accept those and deal with the "stockbroking" approach in another way.

Such as having a big enough gap between lawyers and TPs values - TPs at TM+20%, Lawyers at TM-20%?

If you buy a player worth £10m, he would cost you £12m. His value would then need to go up to £15m before you made a profit. Is a 50% increase sufficient to stop this approach. Players going up more than that is not that common
It'd possibly work but also then result in one of the faults of the recent league in which cash is such a struggle.

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:49 pm

Hero wrote:
Afro wrote:
Hero wrote:
Trebs wrote:Can you get football observatory values of every player? Or FIFA career mode values?
Wouldn't it always though end up in the same predicament of what happens with TM?
Some people buy younger players that are obviously considered future prospects, they improve and their values rocket, it's what happens in RL ala Mbappe/Dembele this summer.

I think using TM is the best option. it has clear weaknesses, but we probably need to accept those and deal with the "stockbroking" approach in another way.

Such as having a big enough gap between lawyers and TPs values - TPs at TM+20%, Lawyers at TM-20%?

If you buy a player worth £10m, he would cost you £12m. His value would then need to go up to £15m before you made a profit. Is a 50% increase sufficient to stop this approach. Players going up more than that is not that common
It'd possibly work but also then result in one of the faults of the recent league in which cash is such a struggle.

It inhibits massive profiteering from player value increases, but doesn't eliminate it entirely.

Other ways to generate cash? Bonus, sponsorship, tactics/votes, some way to incorporate gate receipts/investing in a stadium, betting on real life matches,
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