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Post by Holymiky on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 2:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

Okay, so with the JAV2 League closing due to lack of pure interest and maybe some rules which people didn’t get along with, we have decided to close it.

We have been speaking on the Facebook chat (we need to divert it onto here) about an idea of just starting as basic of a league as possible however this will involve more money and will involve less people hopefully as i want to run it and if I am to do so, I ideally only want people to sign up if they know they are able to commit to it.

We are still talking about ideas of course but any suggestions will be welcome. At the moment I think we discussed a draft style start being given random players with a smaller squad and making it so that we still have something to build but with more money per game/voting week with more than one voter each week however I think the feeling was to revert back to older style leagues with opinions and a score from each voter but again, this is still to be discussed.

This topic is purely to generate interest, I will give everyone until the end of Thursday (Midnight) to decide if they want in or not. As previously mentioned, we only want people who are dedicated and willing to commit otherwise there is simply no point as harsh as it sounds.

IN:

Miky
Marky
Olly
Trebs
Nando
Hero
Afro
Bam
Twist
Tino


Last edited by Holymiky on Tue 03 Oct 2017, 2:54 pm; edited 12 times in total

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Post by BamBam on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 12:03 pm

Trebs wrote:How we deciding games? Think there's basically two options

One person doing results - too subjective?
Predictions from all - difficulty getting predictions in, more work required?

Would say the main thing from my point of view is feedback is given.

Surely 3 managers gives you a counter against both downsides

1 person is too subjective - ok, so 3 should be better
Difficult getting predictions from all - should be easier to just get it from 3

Seems like its the best of both worlds

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Post by Afro on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 12:11 pm

Reality, if you want a simple system for results, its going to rely on people's opinions. Therefore it is always going to be subjective and lead to some unpopular results.

If you want a system completely free of subjectivity and risk of unpopular results, then the system is going have to be complicated.

So what is it that people want more:

1) simple, with potentially unpopular opinions; or
2) complex, but removing the subjectivity?
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Post by BamBam on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 12:36 pm

Simple

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Post by BamBam on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 12:36 pm

That FIFA league idea was pretty good a while ago ...

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 12:40 pm

Yeah and also a Poopie load of work which would have been a great league regardless

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Post by Trebs on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 12:56 pm

I'd sooner be subjective - as long as proper feedback is applied.

I don't like being forced to pick a winner/loser to be honest.

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 1:07 pm

Simplicity is key. That voting system we had that Afro is suggesting worked, i like the idea of 2-3 voters per week.

We need to sort this out guys, i'd appreciate if more people got involved too with discussions and im going to write up what we have so far now.

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 1:22 pm

TM – Lets do this but freeze values, it didn’t seem like anyone was dead against it..


Draft system initially with me fixing up squads to give out to people at random – this should be set in stone, not sure anyone didn’t want this

200 word tactics (only including subs instructions and written instructions) – this worked well in the other league - £1.5m bonus each week (this will be important if we freeze tm values) – set in stone

Votes – if people agree we could revert back to old where every person votes on every game except their own EACH WEEK with a score and a bit of feedback - £1.5m bonus each week (this will be important if we freeze tm values) – still TBD but I like the idea of the old vting system with 2-3 voting each week but we need to juggle it so its fair and we don’t have the same people voting on peoples games.

Transfers – I think with more money in the league, we should limit this again for sure – maybe 3 a week?

Domestic transfers – Definitely need these

Loans – I think long term only like Afro suggested and (this may come in later in the season/s)  and I want to add emergency GK loans too

Lawyers – We could just do a normal lawyer price at whatever price they were brought into the league at, ideally if everyone keeps the prices in team pages, this wont be hard to track

Releases – Maybe we should make this a max of 3 as well? 3 in 3 out mentality for the transfer side of things.

Injuries – Lets say 3?

Cash bonuses – As stated above if we limit TM prices then this will increase importance of getting tactics and votes in
Sponsorships – Added as a bit of fun
Press Conferences – We could make these 500k-1m

Squad limit of 25


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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 1:23 pm

Stuff in bold we need to discuss still in my eyes...

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Post by Hero on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 1:27 pm

How about a system in which each game gets a post thread with a simple poll at the top with the options of Team A win, Team B win, draw? It has a built in cut off period and is quick and simple for voters.

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Post by Trebs on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 1:33 pm

Can you clarify what you mean by freezing values please?

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 1:36 pm

Freezing values would be whatever price you purchase a player at, they stay at that TM price so if i buy Griezmann for £50m, his price would be that until i release him or lawyer him out, even if TM has an increase.

I'm pretty sure that was one of your suggestions by the way Trebs..

Hero i like that idea but we will have trouble with others randomly voting on the topic and we can't be sure who has voted..unless there is an admin control of who would be allowed to vote on the topic within that section?

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Post by Hero on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 1:40 pm

I thought it was the case that a player's value would remain frozen until the end of that  in-game season rather than permanently?

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 1:43 pm

Thats what I meant sorry..

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Post by BamBam on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 1:47 pm

On board with freezing TM value to the end of the season - happy to take the lead on maintaining this if you like

Tactics/predos bonus - is that 1.5m for getting each in on time? Means a max of 1.5m bonus per week per manager

Votes - I like the 3 voter option. Personally am happy to do either win/loss or give scores. Definitely agreed that decent feedback is needed (make half the bonus dependent on feedback quality?)

Lawyers - if we're freezing TM value, I think lawyers can be up to 10% increase

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:05 pm

Freezing tm would be until the end of the in game season.

I was thinking 1.5m for tactics and 1.5m for votes Bam, to save the squads starving of money but if we agree to that I think its only fair we limit tps per week again..

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Post by Trebs on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:14 pm

Miky I know it was my idea - I just wanted to check how the rules would be implemented. Personally I'd just keep it till the end of time as it forces domestics - but I spose I can get on board with that.



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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:17 pm

Anyone disagree with the tm freeze massively? If not we can set it in stone

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Post by BamBam on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:20 pm

Holymiky wrote:Freezing tm would be until the end of the in game season.

I was thinking 1.5m for tactics and 1.5m for votes Bam, to save the squads starving of money but if we agree to that I think its only fair we limit tps per week again..

Think thats fine

If we were to go with the idea of the 3 voters not having a game that week, would mean a max of 1.5m per team per week

Agree on limiting TPs per week

If possible, I'd also look to limit releases

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:26 pm

Yeah as I mentioned above I thought 3 transfers in and 3 releases would work well. 3 in and 3 out mentality

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Post by BamBam on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:28 pm

I almost think even 3 releases a week is too many

Assuming you're picking fairly decent squads to start with, I don't really agree with seeing complete squad turnover in one season as there won't be any real dross in the teams

But happy to go with the majority

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:33 pm

They wont be able to turnover the squad though because we would do it at 75% of the tm value if we continue as the previous league did

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:51 pm

Nando and Afro have been quiet, it concerns me..

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Post by Trebs on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 2:52 pm

I still maintain one person doing results is better than three

PM tactics to results person
Results person decides results and writes feedback
Results are posted

Or

PM tactics to head voter
Head voter posts tactics for other voters to see
Voters PM results back to head voter
Head voter collates results to come up with scoreline
Head voter posts results.

I just think with the messing about waiting for it to get posted, people not predicting on time and so on it's too much hassle.

Also only having 4/7 people playing on a given week creates boredom IMO.

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Post by Afro on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:00 pm

#condition4
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:01 pm

Holymiky wrote:Nando and Afro have been quiet, it concerns me..

I think it's better when Nando is quiet

He usually spouts sh*t boxing
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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:04 pm

I get the feeling the majority want more than one voter trebs.

Does anyone else strongly want a different voting system than above? We need to start moving on if we eventually want to get anything started

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Post by Afro on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:04 pm

Trebs wrote:I still maintain one person doing results is better than three

PM tactics to results person
Results person decides results and writes feedback
Results are posted

Or

PM tactics to head voter
Head voter posts tactics for other voters to see
Voters PM results back to head voter
Head voter collates results to come up with scoreline
Head voter posts results.

I just think with the messing about waiting for it to get posted, people not predicting on time and so on it's too much hassle.

Also only having 4/7 people playing on a given week creates boredom IMO.

You could easily have everyone playing (if an even number), and then have 3 voters for each game (taken from the managers not involved in that game). If it is an odd number, then it is even easier as the non-playing manager votes on every game/collects tactics/votes that week.
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Post by Afro on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:05 pm

I'll post an example in a mo
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Post by Trebs on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:10 pm

But the problem is we don't want everyone voting. It's a nightmare waiting for all the votes to come in.

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Post by Afro on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:14 pm

Okay, well something has to give.

General feeling is that you need more than 1 to dilute the subjectivity
Managers not playing too often makes them bored
But we don't want everyone to vote.

So I see two options - 3 managers don't play and vote on every game or 1 manager doesn't play and the two other votes is shared between the rest
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Post by Fernando on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:16 pm

Im happy with what's listed. I had an idea for a tactic vote thing but not sure would work in the this league. Plus would give Miky too much work imho.

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Post by Trebs on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:24 pm

I've made it clear what I think it should be - I'll step back.

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Post by Afro on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:25 pm

e.g.9 Manager league

Miky
Bam
Olly
Trebs
Hero
Nando
Marky
Afro
GSC




MatchesVoter 1Voter 2Voter 3
MikyvBam        GSCOllyAfro      
OllyvTrebs      GSCHeroNando      
HerovNando      GSCMarkyTrebs      
MarkyvAfro      GSCMikyBam        
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Post by Fernando on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:49 pm

If everyone wrote basic tactics you could stop bias if Miky or whoever is running is randomly handed out games to vote on.

So say

----------------GK
RB ---CB -- CB -- LB
-----DM -- CM
RW -----AM ----LW
-------ST

Then tactics without using names.

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Post by Afro on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:53 pm

How does that work? Surely you need to know who the players are to be able to vote?
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Post by Fernando on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 3:56 pm

it wouldn't work. Just explaining how you'll never avoid bias Laugh

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Post by Afro on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:12 pm

Fernando wrote:it wouldn't work. Just explaining how you'll never avoid bias Laugh

I get you. We could all just have the same XI players
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Post by Hero on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:13 pm

Would sort out all the issues with transfers then too.

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Post by BamBam on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:14 pm

Can't wait to see my midfield dominated by DM - CM - AM

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Post by Hero on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:17 pm

I'm a bit concerned as to where the keeper is wandering off to in that formation, reckon that's Claudio Bravo.

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Post by Fernando on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:17 pm

On the plus side if ever want a tactic based league that's the way around bias voting Laugh

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Post by Hero on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:22 pm

Not really as people still have writing styles that can be picked up upon, when feedback comes in on games it was always fairly obvious who was saying what.


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Post by Fernando on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:23 pm

Hero wrote:I'm a bit concerned as to where the keeper is wandering off to in that formation, reckon that's Claudio Bravo.

Probably Laugh On the plus side he's boss on Fifa 18 this year. Tiis a good game you can't just run past everyone gotta actually play.

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Post by Hero on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:25 pm

Fernando wrote:
Hero wrote:I'm a bit concerned as to where the keeper is wandering off to in that formation, reckon that's Claudio Bravo.

Probably Laugh On the plus side he's boss on Fifa 18 this year. Tiis a good game you can't just run past everyone gotta actually play.
I seem to get progressively worse on that game with every iteration. I struggle on semi pro nowadays.

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Post by Fernando on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:28 pm

Hero wrote:
Fernando wrote:
Hero wrote:I'm a bit concerned as to where the keeper is wandering off to in that formation, reckon that's Claudio Bravo.

Probably Laugh On the plus side he's boss on Fifa 18 this year. Tiis a good game you can't just run past everyone gotta actually play.
I seem to get progressively worse on that game with every iteration. I struggle on semi pro nowadays.

Plus side this is Squad Battles for you then Laugh You get 4 games a day. depending on difficulty level you get points and over a week builds up to get rewards on FUT (coins & packs) thumbsup

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:31 pm

Okay so..

I think we can safely say the voting is decided on as it was only really Trebs who didnt agree - We will need to do something clever with the fixtures/setup.

Next we need to talk about transfers and lawyers - Do we do 3 transfers or do we go back to the old school of 2 and then lower releases to 2? What do people think?

The other thing we need to talk about it Lawyers - How do we handle that, as it seems like we are freezing TM prices for the season, i think it makes sense to give the manager a % above the tm price they bought them for, what do people think to that?

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Post by Fernando on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:34 pm

My preference would be the following but im easy regarding Lawyers & Trannies (Not the Caitlyn Jenner type)

3 TP's
3 Lawyers - 1 above, 1 below & 1 at TM Value
3 Release

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Post by Trebs on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 4:41 pm

Hero wrote:Not really as people still have writing styles that can be picked up upon, when feedback comes in on games it was always fairly obvious who was saying what.

The one person that actually bothered to provide feedback was me?

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 5:00 pm

Others provided feedback trebs.

I mostly didnt because it was taking me an hour or an hour and a half to do results in fairness

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