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Post by Holymiky on Mon 25 Sep 2017, 2:07 pm

First topic message reminder :

Okay, so with the JAV2 League closing due to lack of pure interest and maybe some rules which people didn’t get along with, we have decided to close it.

We have been speaking on the Facebook chat (we need to divert it onto here) about an idea of just starting as basic of a league as possible however this will involve more money and will involve less people hopefully as i want to run it and if I am to do so, I ideally only want people to sign up if they know they are able to commit to it.

We are still talking about ideas of course but any suggestions will be welcome. At the moment I think we discussed a draft style start being given random players with a smaller squad and making it so that we still have something to build but with more money per game/voting week with more than one voter each week however I think the feeling was to revert back to older style leagues with opinions and a score from each voter but again, this is still to be discussed.

This topic is purely to generate interest, I will give everyone until the end of Thursday (Midnight) to decide if they want in or not. As previously mentioned, we only want people who are dedicated and willing to commit otherwise there is simply no point as harsh as it sounds.

IN:

Miky
Marky
Olly
Trebs
Nando
Hero
Afro
Bam
Twist
Tino


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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:57 pm

The way i see it is, we have 2 options.

We either go with the non TM route and somehow use Nando, obviously he would need to be commited.

Or we go with TM and risk as Hero and Afro said the stockbroker approach of waiting for TM prices. I'm easy either way, i want a league but i want it simple and i just want people to be committed.

I just want the old style leagues back where banter was there but also it felt good to build a squad and the competetiveness albeit banter filled was actually good fun like Afro and Hero slogging it out for the title or GSC winning the league and i miss that stuff. I have no quarms with running it we just need to decide what we want, i hope no-one decides not to join because of certain rules but if you really feel that strongly then fine, we can only try.

I realise the issues people have with certain rules and they can be problematic but the plan is to set this up simply because down the line i may have something planned for the future which could work out really well but in the mean time i want to build a league where we can be active and bring this section of the forum back to life.

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 12:57 pm

Also i like the idea of sponsorships Afro and maybe have it based on season finishes if we get to future seasons and where you are projected to finish etc.

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:03 pm

Holymiky wrote:Also i like the idea of sponsorships Afro and maybe have it based on season finishes if we get to future seasons and where you are projected to finish etc.

They have worked well in the long and distant past. Give the manager a list of options, with different rewards - some having more win/point bonuses, some having more for end of season achievement
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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:09 pm

Don't think a draft league and having a panel/realistic/find sources to do transfers is compatible.
You either have to start with real teams and do those transfers, or a draft and a rigid system.

What if transfer values were just locked and that's the way it is. So if you buy Mbappe for £5m, you can sell him to releases for £2.5m irrespective of any market value rise. Or if you wanted to sell him domestically that's allowed at whatever price.

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:13 pm

There needs to be a way of managing that though and if we have 8 managers then thats 200 players to keep track of

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Post by BamBam on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:19 pm

Easily done with a spreadsheet

I don't mind helping with maintaining a list of player values at the point they were bought

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:20 pm

What do people think of frozen tm prices then?

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Post by Marky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:35 pm

IMO freezing TM prices sounds good on paper but would only end up being changed down the line when those who were initially for it, end up complaining cos their specific player had a price rise.

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Post by BamBam on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:37 pm

Could always agree that any rise will be at the end of the season only?

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Post by Marky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:41 pm

Freezing them for the season sounds good.

So a cut off date for selling players, if their value rises then that'd be their new cost to buy, but you would only be able to sell at that price at the end of the season.

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:42 pm

I like that idea, see below for progress so far..

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:43 pm

So what we have so far….some of this is TBD

TM – debatable

Draft system initially with me fixing up squads to give out to people at random

200 word tactics (only including subs instructions and written instructions) – this worked well in the other league - £1.5m bonus each week (this will be important if we freeze tm values)

Votes – if people agree we could revert back to old where every person votes on every game except their own EACH WEEK with a score and a bit of feedback - £1.5m bonus each week (this will be important if we freeze tm values)

Transfers – I think if we use TM we should limit it as see below for money reasons

Domestic transfers – pretty self explanatory

Loans – TBD, we only had one loan in the other league which was Tammy Abraham who Nadz loaned to me.

Lawyers – these need to be brought back, we could limit tm value or we could just give a slight bonus on the tm value but if we freeze this then we would need to rely on the spreadsheet

Releases – don’t see a problem with this being unlimited because we will have to be careful as managers with squad numbers

Injuries – I see no harm in having 3-4 injuries (im easy) Will need to be decided and do we adjust squad size for that (this wont ignore the intial 25 players in the draft)

Cash bonuses – As stated above if we limit TM prices then this will increase importance of getting tactics and votes in
Sponsorships – We could throw this in, would need some organising but willing to talk about it as I like the idea.
Press Conferences – We could make these 500k-1m

Squad limit of 25  

Just had a thought about the spreadsheet thing, if we did freeze tm prices we could make it a thing where people have to have the initial tm prices of the squad in the squad page at all times, I can put those in at the start too to help out.

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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:46 pm

Votes – if people agree we could revert back to old where every person votes on every game except their own EACH WEEK with a score and a bit of feedback - £1.5m bonus each week (this will be important if we freeze tm values)

I would prefer one person doing votes each week. Have an odd number of teams, and the person who doesn't have a game decides the score. This must be done with feedback, and can be done with a points system like we had last time.

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:48 pm

Also Afro and Nando I hope you arent just teasing me and will join if you like the setup

I think we need to move it away from the point system we had last time..

I liked it but we need it to be simpler as there was a lot of confusion over it mainly from me at the start and it was also time consuming

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Post by Fernando on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:53 pm

As i said before if the voting is simplified like before ill take part. It's supposed to be something fun to do. That was time consuming and not fun.

Could always have a group of people decide player prices and take an average price from say 5 people (knock off the top & bottom price) instead of using TM.

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:53 pm

Holymiky wrote:Also Afro and Nando I hope you arent just teasing me and will join if you like the setup


#deleallihair #condition4
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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:56 pm

There are still things we need to decide on and I want voting back to previous as well

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:56 pm

I also need people to confirm if they are in or out please x

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 1:58 pm

Afro wrote:
Holymiky wrote:Also Afro and Nando I hope you arent just teasing me and will join if you like the setup


#deleallihair #condition4
And have a gif of him waving like Alli.

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 2:00 pm

Hero wrote:
Afro wrote:
Holymiky wrote:Also Afro and Nando I hope you arent just teasing me and will join if you like the setup


#deleallihair #condition4
And have a gif of him waving like Alli.

As in waving at Kyle Walker Laugh
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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 2:09 pm

Dont all rush at once xx

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 2:20 pm

TBH Miky, I want to know what the plan is before I sign up to it or not.

Don't want to say yes and find we land on something unappealing, and similarly don't want to say no, only to find you are paying bonuses in real money out of your own pocket.


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Post by BamBam on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 2:21 pm

Likewise

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 2:29 pm

My bad, im just getting impatient because i know how long it takes for us to decide on things.

I think a lot of it sounds like people are pretty happy with but its just a few things that need ironing out to be honest.

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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 2:47 pm

Afro wrote:TBH Miky, I want to know what the plan is before I sign up to it or not.

Don't want to say yes and find we land on something unappealing, and similarly don't want to say no, only to find you are paying bonuses in real money out of your own pocket.

That's my point #5

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 3:03 pm

Lets move discussions on then, what needs deciding from the list I put in

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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 3:17 pm

Basically it's agreeing a transfer system and a results system. They're the two things that matter.

I'd outright ban loans, I don't see what they achieve. Tactics are fine as they are.

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 3:26 pm

My thoughts

TM – debatable
- Don't think there is a better alternative

Draft system initially with me fixing up squads to give out to people at random
Happy with this, or real teams, with a small draft to add a few extra players

200 word tactics (only including subs instructions and written instructions) – this worked well in the other league - £1.5m bonus each week (this will be important if we freeze tm values)
seems fair


Votes – if people agree we could revert back to old where every person votes on every game except their own EACH WEEK with a score and a bit of feedback - £1.5m bonus each week (this will be important if we freeze tm values)
the less work, and the simpler the better. Don't really want to vote every week. Ignoring Hero's disgruntlement, I though the majority/minority voting worked quite well.


Transfers – I think if we use TM we should limit it as see below for money reasons
I think TPs -TM value +20%, Lawyers TM value -20%. Or capping lawyer TM value to the price you paid.

Domestic transfers – pretty self explanatory
Definitely have these


Loans – TBD, we only had one loan in the other league which was Tammy Abraham who Nadz loaned to me.
Long term loans only


Lawyers – these need to be brought back, we could limit tm value or we could just give a slight bonus on the tm value but if we freeze this then we would need to rely on the spreadsheet
see above


Releases – don’t see a problem with this being unlimited because we will have to be careful as managers with squad numbers
Don't like the mass releasing of players are the start of a league


Injuries – I see no harm in having 3-4 injuries (im easy) Will need to be decided and do we adjust squad size for that (this wont ignore the intial 25 players in the draft)
3-4. keep simple


Cash bonuses – As stated above if we limit TM prices then this will increase importance of getting tactics and votes in
agreed.


Sponsorships – We could throw this in, would need some organising but willing to talk about it as I like the idea.
Its not too much organising tbh. Just a bit of work up front each season.


Press Conferences – We could make these 500k-1m
Fair enough


Squad limit of 25
Fair enough



#condition4
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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 3:31 pm

I'm very much against a one person vote system, I don't know what's best but I'll be frank and say I don't trust the judgement of some people in the league.

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 3:33 pm

Would you rather 2-3 people voting a week hero?

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Post by BamBam on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 3:48 pm

Injuries - something to prevent the same player being injured all the time

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Post by Hero on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 3:49 pm

BamBam wrote:Injuries - something to prevent the same player being injured all the time
Stop buying Mbappe then Wink

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Post by BamBam on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 3:53 pm

angel

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 4:06 pm

BamBam wrote:Injuries - something to prevent the same player being injured all the time

Deep Heat
Better stretches and warm ups
Not employing Arsenal physios
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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 4:32 pm

Maybe a tally so a player can be injured three times at most in a 10 game season? Following that he's void

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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 4:32 pm

Other option is injures are drawn from the last starting XI.
This would mean people may tactically not use a player to play him the following week and it guarantees a player can't be injured two weeks running.

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 4:36 pm

Just being honest, some of this stuff isnt keeping it simple.

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Post by Fernando on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 4:37 pm

i prefer the tally of 3 idea.

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Post by Afro on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 4:38 pm

Keep it at 3, and if you don't want the same player injured, move him around your squad list as the random generator isn't entirely random
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Post by Trebs on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 4:40 pm

I think starting Xi isnt that difficult to do and forces squad depth better

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Post by Holymiky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 4:43 pm

Later on ill write up what we have so far, do we feel the tm freeze is a good idea then?

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Post by Marky on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 4:58 pm

Afro wrote:Keep it at 3, and if you don't want the same player injured, move him around your squad list as the random generator isn't entirely random

That's what I did in the league just ended, and I had kinder injuries than most.

Niklas Sule went from injured weekly to fully fit every week.

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Post by Trebs on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 10:06 am

How we deciding games? Think there's basically two options

One person doing results - too subjective?
Predictions from all - difficulty getting predictions in, more work required?

Would say the main thing from my point of view is feedback is given.

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Post by BamBam on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 10:42 am

A league or two ago, I thought having 3 people do votes worked well

Ie if there's a 7 team league, 2 games, 3 voters
9 team league, 3 games, 3 voters and so on

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 10:43 am

I think 2-3 people doing results would work better and more fair in terms of deciding results

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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 10:43 am

Problem is we need to know numbers before deciding some stuff..

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Post by Afro on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 11:01 am

BamBam wrote:A league or two ago, I thought having 3 people do votes worked well


This ^ I liked the simplicity. No scores, just 3 votes and either a unanimous win (+2 GD) or a split win (+1 GD)
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Post by Holymiky on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 11:03 am

Im willing to do that again

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Post by Trebs on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 11:53 am

I'm against that - sorry. I've had no end of trouble since giving an incorrect result.

Think the points system has some merit but it was misused in the last league

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Post by Afro on Wed 27 Sep 2017, 12:00 pm

Trebs wrote:I'm against that - sorry. I've had no end of trouble since giving an incorrect unpopular result.

Think the points system has some merit but it was misused in the last league

Corrected for you
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