2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

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2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 26 Sep 2017, 8:30 am

First topic message reminder :

Friday 29th September

Newcastle vs London Irish (19:45)
Worcester vs Saracens (19:45)
Sale vs Gloucester (20:00)

Saturday 30th September

Leicester vs Exeter (15:00)
Northampton vs Harlequins (15:00)

Sunday 1st October

Wasps vs Bath (15:00)

-------------------------------------------

May as well get the thread up early.

At the start of the season, London Irish might have had targeted fixtures against Newcastle but the Falcons have been in good form, so Irish will need to show their first match form to come away with anything. Worcester have shown some fight but it'd be a surprise if Saracens don't handle them comfortably. A resurgent Gloucester would fancy their chances at Sale. However, it's not clear they are resurgent, and Sale can turn up at home.

Looking forward to the game at Welford Road. Don't know if they'll all be available, or selected, but Youngs, Ford, Slade, May and Nowell could be most of the England back line. Leicester will need alot of  home grit to hold off the reigning champions, who looked good at the weekend.

Unsure if Marcus Smith is clear to play at the weekend. It will hurt Quins' chances if not, and, anyway, Saints have picked themselves up very well after that disastrous opening match.

Wasps vs Bath promises a lot of attacking intent. In truth, though, both sides have flattered to deceive. Wasps had little to offer going forward last weekend, and Bath have relied on Rokodoguni to get them over the line. The injury count seems high, so we'll see who actually gets named.


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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:39 pm

Seems a bit unfair when comparing that to the Chief's yellow for him to stay on the pitch ..

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:40 pm

Yellow card. Lucky boy, if you go into the breakdown horizontal and don't wrap the arms it's a lottery. First contact was head on head.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:40 pm

Heaf2 wrote:Seems a bit unfair when comparing that to the Chief's yellow for him to stay on the pitch ..

Malouf is a very lucky boy.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:42 pm

Lucky that dolman landed foot first

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:43 pm

But the Chiefs player was clearly in pain due to a hard landing when he was taken out in the air - so for me despite his foot touching the floor that should be yellow too as it was also dangerous ...

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:48 pm

Heaf2 wrote:But the Chiefs player was clearly in pain due to a hard landing when he was taken out in the air - so for me despite his foot touching the floor that should be yellow too as it was also dangerous ...

But that isnt the directive though, you can't judge it by the pain on a players face else you'll encourage players to fake it.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:51 pm

I'd like to see a replay but I thought I saw Dollman him doing a bit of that anyway Nathan.


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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:52 pm

I know but it also seems wrong to judge it on how lucky the tackled player is with the way they land ... foot or not it was still a dangerous challenge - I realise it's difficult to legislate for but that looked as worthy of a yellow as the Chiefs challenge.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:52 pm

It's one of those where a foot has landed taken nothing away from impact and would have had the same affect on doll man as had he gone straight on his side. Letter of the law a pen but I think the spirit would intend it to be yellow. Not much the ref can do.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:52 pm

nathan wrote:
Heaf2 wrote:But the Chiefs player was clearly in pain due to a hard landing when he was taken out in the air - so for me despite his foot touching the floor that should be yellow too as it was also dangerous ...

But that isnt the directive though, you can't judge it by the pain on a players face else you'll encourage players to fake it.

If you're a back and you've got a big pack that's been working hard you'll take a knee in those situations so your fat boys can get some air in and have a drink. Also gives your lineout leader time to formulate a plan.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Scottrf on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:53 pm

Appalling for Saints only to be 19-15 up. Completely dominated the game.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:56 pm

Heaf2 wrote:I know but it also seems wrong to judge it on how lucky the tackled player is with the way they land ... foot or not it was still a dangerous challenge - I realise it's difficult to legislate for but that looked as worthy of a yellow as the Chiefs challenge.

Doesn't matter if it seems wrong, that's how it's done. The ref was spot on. Now if those laws need changing is another debate,

Of course it was a dangerous challenge hence the penalty, but no yellow because his foot hit the floor first.

Personally I think the law needs looking at but I'd be very much against going on how hurt the player appears to be, imagine the amount of faking we would see

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 3:56 pm

Spirit vs letter of the law is always a tough one. Salvi dives over the ruck head first and connects with Veainu's head - if he goes down instead of being fine then it's a red for Salvi.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:03 pm

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Spirit vs letter of the law is always a tough one. Salvi dives over the ruck head first and connects with Veainu's head - if he goes down instead of being fine then it's a red for Salvi.

If Salvi isn't wearing a scrum cap there's a 50/50 chance the top of Salvi's head draws some claret from TV (head on head is always a likely bleeder). If that then it only needs TV to stay down and it's 100% red.

Loved Ford's drop goal. Really good game management.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:13 pm

nathan wrote:
Heaf2 wrote:I know but it also seems wrong to judge it on how lucky the tackled player is with the way they land ... foot or not it was still a dangerous challenge - I realise it's difficult to legislate for but that looked as worthy of a yellow as the Chiefs challenge.

Doesn't matter if it seems wrong, that's how it's done. The ref was spot on. Now if those laws need changing is another debate,

Of course it was a dangerous challenge hence the penalty, but no yellow because his foot hit the floor first.

Personally I think the law needs looking at but I'd be very much against going on how hurt the player appears to be, imagine the amount of faking we would see

Maybe something along the lines of if a player is taken out in the air and lands in a position where he wouldn't be able to support his own weight ...

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:24 pm

Earlier in the game the ref said "played the ball up, not deliberate knock on". Now TV clearly plays it up and it's a penalty try and yellow card. Consistency?

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:24 pm

He hits it upwards? Does that count for anything?

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:25 pm

But the right call this time - no way was he catching that ...

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:27 pm

Finally he sees a forward pass as well Smile

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:27 pm

nathan wrote:He hits it upwards? Does that count for anything?

It's intention. His intention is to flick the ball up so he can catch it, he's not cynically played it down.

Yellow card it wasn't in my view though I think you have to give the penalty try.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:33 pm

For me this is the problem - they say you can't use intent to judge some things just the outcome but you can others?  Judging intent is a tricky area.  I don't subscribe to the upwards thing either - if you don't catch it it's a knock-on - and  assuming you didn't accidentally put your hand out, by default it's a deliberate knock-on ... he was at full stretch just to make contact - can't see he had any realistic chance of not knocking it on.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:38 pm

What a signing Johnny May has been

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:39 pm

Interesting one there - the intent was to trip (YC) but because the outcome was he didn't trip him no YC ...

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:41 pm

Heaf2 wrote:Interesting one there - the intent was to trip (YC) but because the outcome was he didn't trip him no YC ...

Shouldn't of even been a penalty, it's like swinging a punch and missing... It doesn't go punished

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:42 pm

Although he did make contact I think - just wasn't effective ...

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:43 pm

Harry Wells going off for a HIA isn't good. He's been excellent for Tigers. Possibly Tigers best forward.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:43 pm

Heaf2 wrote:Although he did make contact I think - just wasn't effective ...

They said attempted so presumed he didn't make contact. If he did then it should of been a yellow

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:43 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Harry Wells going off for a HIA isn't good. He's been excellent for Tigers. Possibly Tigers best forward.

It was Slades clear out

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:44 pm

I think on the replay Woodburn just rode through it but there was contact - agree it should either be a yellow or nothing ...

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:50 pm

Judo throw on garrison

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:57 pm

Would like to see that last scrum again. Looked like it should have been a reset as the ball wasn't in and no side was moving.

O'Connor seemed to be angry about not being able to put Wells back on after his enforced 10 minute HIA. Given Tigers only had seven forwards on the park and we were about to scrum you can see his point.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:58 pm

Well played Tigers - a big improvement from the start of the season.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:58 pm

Did I hear the commentary right earlier that the Chiefs have picked up at least a point in each of their last 59 (now 60) matches?

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:58 pm

Heaf2 wrote:Well played Tigers - a big improvement from the start of the season.

Getting there.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Welly on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 4:59 pm

Hopefully the forwards can build on that completely dominated exeter forwards IMO.

Wells really taking his chances now.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Heaf2 on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:02 pm

nathan wrote:
Heaf2 wrote:Well played Tigers - a big improvement from the start of the season.

Getting there.

But it would be nice if you had a downward blip next week.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:06 pm

Saints 30 - 22 Quins with a BP

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:06 pm

Which means, can't quite believe after match 1, we are top of the pile

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:08 pm

What happened with potential gauge in the saints match

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:08 pm

Welly wrote: Hopefully the forwards can build on that completely dominated exeter forwards IMO.

Wells really taking his chances now.

So much more physical. The midfield is working nicely as well. Toomua and Smith are just so tough in defence and Toomua is a great foil for Ford. The game plan is coming along as well, more pragmatic and direct suits our forwards and they are working very hard in defence. Just need to be a little cuter and cut down the penalties.

Wells was fantastic, he looks like a proper Tigers lock. Aggressive, physical and doesn't mind getting stuck into the opposition. He's started to adapt to the pace of the AP and is now getting in and making himself a real pest at the breakdown. Currently our first choice lock on form.

Nice to see Youngs kicking is coming good again, he's taken a few games to find his range.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:09 pm

potential gauge?

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:10 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Welly wrote: Hopefully the forwards can build on that completely dominated exeter forwards IMO.

Wells really taking his chances now.

So much more physical. The midfield is working nicely as well. Toomua and Smith are just so tough in defence and Toomua is a great foil for Ford. The game plan is coming along as well, more pragmatic and direct suits our forwards and they are working very hard in defence. Just need to be a little cuter and cut down the penalties.

Wells was fantastic, he looks like a proper Tigers lock. Aggressive, physical and doesn't mind getting stuck into the opposition. He's started to adapt to the pace of the AP and is now getting in and making himself a real pest at the breakdown. Currently our first choice lock on form.

Nice to see Youngs kicking is coming good again, he's taken a few games to find his range.

Thought that tom Youngs played well too

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:10 pm

nathan wrote:What happened with potential gauge in the saints match

Alleged gauge on Brown? No citing so obviously reviewed and deemed to be nothing.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Scottrf on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:15 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
nathan wrote:What happened with potential gauge in the saints match

Alleged gauge on Brown? No citing so obviously reviewed and deemed to be nothing.
Brown didn't play?

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:23 pm

Nathan is talking about the Saints Quins game while I think Sam is talking about the Tigers Quins game where there was a similar accusation towards Harry Wells that came of nothing.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by emontagu on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:25 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
nathan wrote:What happened with potential gauge in the saints match

Alleged gauge on Brown? No citing so obviously reviewed and deemed to be nothing.

It was an alleged gouge on Paterson by Sinckler after a tackle. Sinckler ripped Paterson's scrum cap off and made contact with the face which he got penalised for but ref couldn't tell from the replay if there was clear contact with the eyes. Ref mentioned citing commissioner will review if they deem appropriate.


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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by nathan on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:26 pm

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Nathan is talking about the Saints Quins game while I think Sam is talking about the Tigers Quins game where there was a similar accusation towards Harry Wells that came of nothing.

This

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:33 pm

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:Nathan is talking about the Saints Quins game while I think Sam is talking about the Tigers Quins game where there was a similar accusation towards Harry Wells that came of nothing.

Ah apologies. I'd not heard anything about any of the other games.

Sinckler does have a temper but has previously managed to stay clear of any serious foul play. Eddie Jones will be unimpressed if he's allowed someone to rile him that far. Harry Williams has already replaced him in the training squad and Dan Cole is starting to come into form. Kyle might go from Lions test player to third choice for England.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Scottrf on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:41 pm

Stickler was in a very aggressive mood today.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 30 Sep 2017, 5:44 pm

Saints and Falcons the top 2 after 5 games....insane.

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Re: 2017/18 Aviva Premiership Round Five

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