I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

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I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by LordDowlais on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:41 am

'I give up, it's becoming a joke' - Furious Richard Cockerill loses it with PRO14 refereeing standards.

The outspoken former England hooker claims to have already given up on the officiating after just six weeks in the league.

Edinburgh head coach Richard Cockerill has launched a stunning attack on the standard of refereeing in the Guinness PRO14 - with the former Leicester hooker claiming to have given up hope about officiating.

The 27-cap former England international made the comments after his side scraped past Zebre 16-15 at Myreside, with Cockerill unhappy with how referee Marius Mitrea managed the match.


And it would appear that after only six weeks of coaching in the league, Cockerill is not holding out hope for standards to improve.

"The last four weeks there have been so many inaccurate decisions or non-decisions that it's actually becoming a joke."

Highlighting a couple of key incidents that went against Edinburgh, the former Leicester coach claimed Italian Mitrea failed to penalise cynical play from the visitors, saying: "Dougie Fife made a line break from 50m out, they're offside from the next phase, there's no yellow card.

"We kick the three points but how are you meant to play if every bit of positive play is killed by negative play?

"We kicked the goal to go in front, the next kick-off their prop is two metres in front of the kicker and he [the referee] just chooses to ignore it. That's a scrum back to us - they're big moments in the game. But we've got a lot to improve ourselves as well."

The attack comes hot on the heels of the comments Cockerill made after Edinburgh's 28-9 defeat to the Scarlets - when he claimed referee John Lacey treated his players differently to the west Wales region's .

Cockerill was also aggrieved that two of the Scarlets' four tries were awarded despite being questionable - stating that "because it was Edinburgh he (Lacey) didn’t go to the TMO and get it checked."

He also implied that Lacey was refereeing on the basis of a pre-conceived expectation that the champions would win, saying: “I just want us to be treated fairly as Edinburgh. We are supposed to lose and that is how I felt we were refereed tonight.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/i-give-up-its-becoming-13730800

Well Richard, welcome to the Pro14. Very Happy

Do any of you reckon he is wrong ?

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:48 am

Not surprising given he did it quite a lot in the prem as well.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by TJ on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:49 am

All of it and you are boring. I am an Edinburgh fan

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by Scottrf on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:52 am

Annoyed he no longer has Wayne Barnes to gift him matches.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by Pete330v2 on Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:51 pm

All the teams receive the same refereeing standards. They do fall below the required standard on occasion but what's the solution? Better refereeing of course but where will these better referees come from? This air?

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by George Carlin on Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:52 pm

Cockers in Irritated With People Shocker. 

This was just above another couple of articles which claimed that Dolly Parton does not sleep on her front and JK Rowling is no longer on the breadline.
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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon Oct 09, 2017 12:58 pm

It never looks good to complain about a ref as it is either seen as sour grapes if you lose or like you are making excuses for your players playing badly, which I genuinely don't think he is doing. I think it is fair to say that he has certainly seen the worst that the Pro 14 has to offer when it comes to referring over the last few weeks!  Those at the Zebre game at the weekend (which we won) say that Mitrea was particularly appalling and Lacey's performance in the Scarlets game even led to neutrals voicing their support on social media after the game.

He has spoken to the league's head off referring recently, and they fact that he hasn't faced disciplinary comments (yet) suggests that they agreed with him on the ref's performance??

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:07 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:It never looks good to complain about a ref as it is either seen as sour grapes if you lose or like you are making excuses for your players playing badly, which I genuinely don't think he is doing. I think it is fair to say that he has certainly seen the worst that the Pro 14 has to offer when it comes to referring over the last few weeks!  Those at the Zebre game at the weekend (which we won) say that Mitrea was particularly appalling and Lacey's performance in the Scarlets game even led to neutrals voicing their support on social media after the game.

He has spoken to the league's head off referring recently, and they fact that he hasn't faced disciplinary comments (yet) suggests that they agreed with him on the ref's performance??

That is true, but at the same time there is no point in pretending it is all hunky-dory if you genuinely believe that there is something wrong with the officating. As you say there have been some poor calls, and standards off officials, so maybe he is justified for his comments.
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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by Driver on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:49 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:It never looks good to complain about a ref as it is either seen as sour grapes if you lose or like you are making excuses for your players playing badly, which I genuinely don't think he is doing. I think it is fair to say that he has certainly seen the worst that the Pro 14 has to offer when it comes to referring over the last few weeks!  Those at the Zebre game at the weekend (which we won) say that Mitrea was particularly appalling and Lacey's performance in the Scarlets game even led to neutrals voicing their support on social media after the game.

He has spoken to the league's head off referring recently, and they fact that he hasn't faced disciplinary comments (yet) suggests that they agreed with him on the ref's performance??

That is true, but at the same time there is no point in pretending it is all hunky-dory if you genuinely believe that there is something wrong with the officating.  As you say there have been some poor calls, and standards off officials, so maybe he is justified for his comments.

Agree with this, i think sometimes officials are protected by rugby's idea of respect too much.

Respect him enough to help develop him.
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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by Kingshu on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:21 pm

Haven't seen the games to comment on the reffing. But it wouldn't surprise me if hes voicing his concern loudly to not only push up the standard of reffing but also to help push any 50/50's in Edinburghs favour, all the prem league managers do it, vouce concern in the press so you get awarded more as the ref is under pressure to appear neutral and may be swung by it slightly.

Another point us that he could be trying to build an us v them team spirit, mourino does it at all his teams very effectively esp Chelsea. Cockers could be trying the same. Scarens and Toulon have also used it to some extant.

So while I think he has a point about ref standards needing to increase, I also think he's using the oppurtunity to sway future decisions and build a team spirit in a way.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:26 pm

If that's what he's doing then it isn't working as we've had dodgy reffing 4 games in a row now!

He's an honest and fairly straight forward bloke and I genuinely think a big part of it is he is just massively frustrated with the standard of reffing and his perceived injustice against his team. I'm sure there will be ulterior motives behind his comments as well though.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by Pot Hale on Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:44 pm

I am not surprised this hasn't been picked up.  By a moderator - for wasting people's time.  But the forum doesn't seem to have those anymore.  

Yet another non-story about reffing and how someone isn't happy about it.   Could some moderator link this story to the anti-IrishRugby one that Dowlais also wrote?  

Same story, with a different bogeyman.


Last edited by Pot Hale on Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by geoff999rugby on Mon Oct 09, 2017 6:49 pm

Are there poor refs in the league, of all nationalities - Yes
Are they biased towards certain teams - No
Is Cockerill a serial whinger - Yes



Right lets move on nothing more to be said

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by wayne on Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:12 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Are there poor refs in the league, of all nationalities - Yes
Are they biased towards certain teams - No
Is Cockerill a serial whinger - Yes



Right lets move on nothing more to be said

Geoff, do I agree with all your questions and answers - Probably, don't know enough about Cockerill's reputation, so can't really judge on him

BUT, I was at the Ospreys v Scarlets game and we had a nice looking Irish maiden running the line on the changing rooms side in the first half and John Lacey reffing, right at the end of the first half one of our players ran up the touchline and was tackled inside the touchline, Dan Lydiate picked the ball up with his left foot on the line, he passed the ball infield with foot still on the line, we were awarded a penalty and the incident was replayed on the big screen. Dan Biggar kicked the penalty and we were 9 - 0 up at half time, when it should have been a throw in to the Scarlets and us only leading 6-0. I'm not going to give other instances of poor officiating as it would look like sour grapes on my part, which this is not about. As you said there are very poor Refs of ALL nationalities, and let me finally say I honestly think John Lacey is one of the very best in our League, I normally have no reservations when I know Lacey is reffing our game.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:10 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
Is Cockerill a serial whinger - Yes

No. In the early years of his Tigers tenure he got himself into trouble by complaining but in the later seasons he kept his council even when it was common knowledge that the coaching team was less than impressed. I'm a little surprised to see him go back to venting his spleen. Then again most of the Pro 14 fans on here regularly complain about reffing standards so maybe I'm not surprised.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by Artful_Dodger on Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:59 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:
Is Cockerill a serial whinger - Yes

No. In the early years of his Tigers tenure he got himself into trouble by complaining but in the later seasons he kept his council even when it was common knowledge that the coaching team was less than impressed. I'm a little surprised to see him go back to venting his spleen. Then again most of the Pro 14 fans on here regularly complain about reffing standards so maybe I'm not surprised.

There may be an issue with Pro14 reffing, but it is also worth baring in mind that given that 5 countries compete in the Pro14 there are always going to be more accusations of bias than in the AP or Top14.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:32 am

Kingshu wrote:Haven't seen the games to comment on the reffing. But it wouldn't surprise me if hes voicing his concern loudly to not only push up the standard of reffing but also to help push any 50/50's in Edinburghs favour, all the prem league managers do it, vouce concern in the press so you get awarded more as the ref is under pressure to appear neutral and may be swung by it slightly.

Another point us that he could be trying to build an us v them team spirit, mourino does it at all his teams very effectively esp Chelsea. Cockers could be trying the same. Scarens and Toulon have also used it to some extant.

So while I think he has a point about ref standards needing to increase, I also think he's using the oppurtunity to sway future decisions and build a team spirit in a way.

Same kind of thing as Gatland does when he constatnly bangs on about where the opposition team live on the boundaries of the rules.
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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:36 am

wayne wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Are there poor refs in the league, of all nationalities - Yes
Are they biased towards certain teams - No
Is Cockerill a serial whinger - Yes



Right lets move on nothing more to be said

Geoff, do I agree with all your questions and answers - Probably, don't know enough about Cockerill's reputation, so can't really judge on him

BUT, I was at the Ospreys v Scarlets game and we had a nice looking Irish maiden running the line on the changing rooms side in the first half and John Lacey reffing, right at the end of the first half one of our players ran up the touchline and was tackled inside the touchline, Dan Lydiate picked the ball up with his left foot on the line, he passed the ball infield with foot still on the line, we were awarded a penalty and the incident was replayed on the big screen. Dan Biggar kicked the penalty and we were 9 - 0 up at half time, when it should have been a throw in to the Scarlets and us only leading 6-0. I'm not going to give other instances of poor officiating as it would look like sour grapes on my part, which this is not about. As you said there are very poor Refs of ALL nationalities, and let me finally say I honestly think John Lacey is one of the very best in our League, I normally have no reservations when I know Lacey is reffing our game.

In the interest of fairness (and because Wayne cant say it), there are serious questions regarding one of the Scarles tries whether Samson Lee knocked the ball on in the lead up.
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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by wayne on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:13 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
wayne wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Are there poor refs in the league, of all nationalities - Yes
Are they biased towards certain teams - No
Is Cockerill a serial whinger - Yes



Right lets move on nothing more to be said

Geoff, do I agree with all your questions and answers - Probably, don't know enough about Cockerill's reputation, so can't really judge on him

BUT, I was at the Ospreys v Scarlets game and we had a nice looking Irish maiden running the line on the changing rooms side in the first half and John Lacey reffing, right at the end of the first half one of our players ran up the touchline and was tackled inside the touchline, Dan Lydiate picked the ball up with his left foot on the line, he passed the ball infield with foot still on the line, we were awarded a penalty and the incident was replayed on the big screen. Dan Biggar kicked the penalty and we were 9 - 0 up at half time, when it should have been a throw in to the Scarlets and us only leading 6-0. I'm not going to give other instances of poor officiating as it would look like sour grapes on my part, which this is not about. As you said there are very poor Refs of ALL nationalities, and let me finally say I honestly think John Lacey is one of the very best in our League, I normally have no reservations when I know Lacey is reffing our game.

In the interest of fairness (and because Wayne cant say it), there are serious questions regarding one of the Scarles tries whether Samson Lee knocked the ball on in the lead up.

Yes well done SS, good to see a decent poster still on here, although I don't think at the end of the day it would have made a difference to the final result, we'd have found a way to hand you the game, the 2 tries started by Steff Evans and McNicholl was all about our inability to make pretty straight forward tackles.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:23 pm

wayne wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
wayne wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Are there poor refs in the league, of all nationalities - Yes....
Geoff, do I agree with all your questions and answers....
In the interest of fairness.....
Yes well done SS,.....

Wayne, I think that is what most people dont get. When venting about a poor ref, it is not alwways about the ref changing the outcome of the game, it is more that it ruins the ability to watch it. I have seen matches where my side has won and where they have lost, and been on the recieving end, and poopie end, of the refs awful calls. And it annoys me as much in each instance (Ok, I do enjoy it against your boys and Ulster, because I'm a bitter git), because it devalues the contest, and ruins the specticle for neutrals.

I really try my best these days not to comment on officials, in forums, as the moment it is mentioned that seems like an automatic 'sour grapes' outcry and any ligitimate issues get lost in the bun fight afterwards.
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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by Sin é on Tue Oct 10, 2017 2:56 pm

While we are talking about pro14 refs - whats the general opinion of Whitehouse.
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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by marty2086 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:02 pm

Sin é wrote:While we are talking about pro14 refs - whats the general opinion of Whitehouse.

Sometimes he's quality, sometimes he's rubbish. Hopefully the rubbish games will become less with time

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by Sin é on Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:05 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:While we are talking about pro14 refs - whats the general opinion of Whitehouse.

Sometimes he's quality, sometimes he's rubbish. Hopefully the rubbish games will become less with time

Yes, he was a bit inconsistent at the weekend in the Leinster v Munster game - something like 10-1 penalties in first half which I put down to being a homer. I thought he looked good when he started reffing initially, but I suppose he is still young.


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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by marty2086 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:07 pm

Sin é wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:While we are talking about pro14 refs - whats the general opinion of Whitehouse.

Sometimes he's quality, sometimes he's rubbish. Hopefully the rubbish games will become less with time

Yes, he was a bit inconsistent at the weekend in the Leinster v Munster game - something like 10-1 penalties in first half which I put down to being a homer. I thought he looked good when he started reffing initially, but I suppose he is still young.



Saw an article somewhere that put it down to the approach of the captains, POM was a bit aggressive at times in his approach and Sexton and even Henshaw were having a quiet word just for Leinster

I think some refs don't take well to be told off and argued with

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by LordDowlais on Tue Oct 10, 2017 3:12 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Sin é wrote:While we are talking about pro14 refs - whats the general opinion of Whitehouse.

Sometimes he's quality, sometimes he's rubbish. Hopefully the rubbish games will become less with time

Well, feck me, I am agreeing with marty, it must be snowing in hell at the moment. Very Happy

I think we can put him in the one to watch or up and coming category.

I particularly like his use of the phrase, YEWS IT. Very Happy

All that being said, he is prone to the odd howler, but his communication with the players is top notch. For me he is a future international ref in the making. One of the better Pro14 refs, but is still young and has a lot to learn.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Tue Oct 10, 2017 4:41 pm

Whitehouse is Nigel Owens Pt2, he is a decent ref but gets a bit self obsessed and tries to be clever rather than just getting on with his job.

I think he’s also the sort that can allow the crowd to control hi, be it reffing by their reaction, or going over the top to not allow them to get to him.
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Post by RiscaGame on Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:33 pm

I'd agree that he's a poorman's Nigel Owens. I don't like the original much, so don't appreciate clones starting to appear.

We even had a ref at New Tredegar pull all 30 players in to tell them off, undoubtedly because he sees Owens do similar.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by nathan on Tue Oct 10, 2017 6:50 pm

Scottrf wrote:Annoyed he no longer has Wayne Barnes to gift him matches.

Laugh

That comment could only come from a saints fan

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by Scottrf on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:11 pm

nathan wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Annoyed he no longer has Wayne Barnes to gift him matches.

Laugh

That comment could only come from a saints fan
Haha, surprised it didn't get picked up sooner.

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Re: I am surprised nobody has picked this up.

Post by nathan on Tue Oct 10, 2017 9:43 pm

Scottrf wrote:
nathan wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Annoyed he no longer has Wayne Barnes to gift him matches.

Laugh

That comment could only come from a saints fan
Haha, surprised it didn't get picked up sooner.

The obvious gets boring so people tend to ignore it.

And I've not been on here for a while

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