European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

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European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by George Carlin on Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:12 am

First topic message reminder :

Right, seeing as it seems nobody else has put up any match threads yet, perhaps we can use this as a general thread for the build up to this year's European club competition.

The first round of Champions Cup matches looks like this:

13/10/2017 19:45 P1
Ulster Rugby  v   Wasps
Kingspan Stadium
BT Sport / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 13:00 P3
Leinster Rugby  v   Montpellier
RDS Arena
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 16:15 P4
Racing 92  v   Leicester Tigers
Stade Yves-Du-Manoir
beIN Sports / BT Sport More

14/10/2017 17:30 P1
Harlequins  v   La Rochelle
The Twickenham Stoop
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 17:30 P5
Bath Rugby  v   Benetton Rugby
The Recreation Ground
Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

14/10/2017 19:45 P3
Exeter Chiefs  v   Glasgow Warriors
Sandy Park
BT Sport / beIN Sports More

15/10/2017 14:00 P4
Castres Olympique  v   Munster Rugby
Stade Pierre Fabre
beIN Sports / Sky Sports More

15/10/2017 16:15 P5
RC Toulon  v   Scarlets
Stade Félix Mayol
FR2 / Sky Sports / beIN Sports More

15/10/2017 17:30 P2
Northampton Saints  v   Saracens
Franklin's Gardens
BT Sport / beIN Sports More

15/10/2017 17:30 P2
Ospreys  v   ASM Clermont Auvergne
Liberty Stadium
BT Sport / beIN Sports

We all have our own vested interests but for me the picks of the round are:

- Chiefs v Glasgow: 2nd in the Jeff vs 1st in Pro 12 conference A - both teams playing very well - should be a stormer.

- Toulon v Scarlets: top of Pro 12 conference B, Scarlets are flying and are coming up against an imperfect side that has already lost 3 times this season. Great chance for an away win.

- Saints v Sarries: 1st v 3rd, an English classic, should be absolutely brutal.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by nathan on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:05 pm

eirebilly wrote:Surely that should be a red card by the new directives?

Apparently not.

He was beyond horizontal and didn't control his descent

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by TightHEAD on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:07 pm

Red everyday of the week at whatever level. He made no attempt to put him down, why didn't the ref look at it?
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:08 pm

nathan wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Surely that should be a red card by the new directives?

Apparently not.

He was beyond horizontal and didn't control his descent

I have seen more minor incidents referred to the TMO than that. If that went to the TMO, I think we would see a Red Card.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Welly on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:09 pm

Can an Irish team get Lacey or is it strictly a handicap for everyone else?

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by TJ on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:11 pm

I didn't see the tip - stream playing up but IIRC its legs above hips - foul play penalty. Tackled player lands on his front / arms - no further sanction. Lands on his back - yellow, lands on his head / neck red

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Artful_Dodger on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:12 pm

Welly wrote: Can an Irish team get Lacey or is it strictly a handicap for everyone else?

If you'd like to take him off our hands and give him British citizenship you are welcome to him. thumbsup

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by TJ on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:13 pm

He was beyond horizontal and didn't control his descent

that makes it a penalty for foul play. Its how the player lands as above that determines if its a card and what colour card

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by nathan on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:18 pm

TJ wrote:
He was beyond horizontal and didn't control his descent

that makes it a penalty for foul play.  Its how the player lands as above that determines if its a card and what colour card

Doesn't matter what the law is, it's how refs apply it and they've been giving yellows for it.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by TJ on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:24 pm

Thats the guidence to the refs on deciding the sanction and I have only seen them given in line with that.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by mid_gen on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:50 pm

That was a lovely bit of play from Roberts, maybe he's not past it!

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by mid_gen on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:52 pm

...and then an absolute howler of a forward pass.....guess he got a bit carried away

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Welly on Sat Oct 14, 2017 5:53 pm

Artful_Dodger wrote:
Welly wrote: Can an Irish team get Lacey or is it strictly a handicap for everyone else?

If you'd like to take him off our hands and give him British citizenship you are welcome to him. thumbsup

maybe we should ask the SH if they want him.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by mid_gen on Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:06 pm

Awful lazy defence from Quins so far, making it far too easy for the La Rochelle players to truck it up. Marcus Smith looking great going forward again though

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by mid_gen on Sat Oct 14, 2017 6:11 pm

Brown with a lovely step and pass for the try, good finish from Marchant.

Fingers crossed, La Rochelle are determined to play a loose offloading game and that's just the kind of game we enjoy countering.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by LondonTiger on Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:47 am

I was out with my daughters yesterday to celebrate the eldest's 16th birthday so missed the Leicester game other than score updates.

In the evening the head line in the Times read "Wasteful Tigers rue missed chances" with a partially written story seeming to indicate that Leicester were good value for the LBP and but for dropped balls would have secured a not undeserving win.

This morning the headline (and same journo) says "Tigers fortunate to avoid real mauling" with the story suggesting that but for a resolute defence and dodgy use of the TMO Leicester would have seen a hammering similar to last year.

Any feelings on which slant is closer to the truth please.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by TJ on Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:05 am

The former is perhaps closer but tigers were second best all game

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Welly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:23 am

Dodgy use of the TMO?

What like on the french 10 milking that "hit" by Genge and wasting the YC time or that balant knock on that was missed by the TMO and Ref before the try?


End of the day it was Nakarawa v Tigers and Nakarawa won my god he is a talent. Racing weren't anything special otherwise they will stuggle away from home and will really struglle if anything happens to Nakarawa.


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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:39 am

Personally, I thought the Tigers missed a chance yesterday. That was some pack sent out by Racing but the Tigers didn't stretch them or tire them enough for me.

I think the return at Welford Road will be an entirely different game and one which the Tigers will win.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:07 pm

Very good start from Castres and a cynical piece of play from Murray see's him get a yellow card early in the game. Could also have been a penalty try awarded to Castres.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:15 pm

And people keep telling me that Farrell has a great pair of hands... Two shocking passes against Leinster and now a telegraphed pass against Castres that leads to an intercept try.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:45 pm

Munster really have not deserved anything out of this game. Absolutely unimaginative in attack. Chris Farrell for all his size and defensive abilities is an absolute liability in attack.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:50 pm

That really should have been another penalty to Castres, Munster look like they will sneak a draw here. Very poor officiating against Castres today.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by marty2086 on Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:53 pm

Personally thought it was harsh on Munster, Copeland looked like he grabbed Kocketts wrist rather than getting the ball

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:54 pm

Well its a draw for Munster. Rather harsh on Castres who I feel were the better team today.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:09 pm

marty2086 wrote:Personally thought it was harsh on Munster, Copeland looked like he grabbed Kocketts wrist rather than getting the ball

The reason it was such a poor decision is that, of all the available interpretations, a scrum is the only outcome that isn't possible. If it's knocked on, it is absolutely deliberate and so a penalty. If it is wrist then it's play on. It's like they were so desperate to avoid having to make a decision that they ignored the rules to get out of it.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by marty2086 on Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:11 pm

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:
marty2086 wrote:Personally thought it was harsh on Munster, Copeland looked like he grabbed Kocketts wrist rather than getting the ball

The reason it was such a poor decision is that, of all the available interpretations, a scrum is the only outcome that isn't possible. If it's knocked on, it is absolutely deliberate and so a penalty. If it is wrist then it's play on. It's like they were so desperate to avoid having to make a decision that they ignored the rules to get out of it.

Except if the ref thought it was an attempt to play the player but got the ball in the process, only problem is the replays didn't show clearly who was at fault

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:19 pm

eirebilly wrote:Munster really have not deserved anything out of this game. Absolutely unimaginative in attack. Chris Farrell for all his size and defensive abilities is an absolute liability in attack.
Did he cost Munster 14 points today? You hard what was an awful throw for the intercept and was done for crossing when it looked like a certain try.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:46 pm

eirebilly wrote:Personally, I thought the Tigers missed a chance yesterday. That was some pack sent out by Racing but the Tigers didn't stretch them or tire them enough for me.

I think the return at Welford Road will be an entirely different game and one which the Tigers will win.

I'm not too disappointed. We were not clinical enough, that's for sure but it's difficult to simply wear down that Racing pack. They have high quality replacements for five of the starting 8 and the Racing backs aren't exactly small either.

On another day the TMO sees the knock on before the second try or the ref spots Lambie coming in from the side at the penultimate breakdown for the third try. Sometimes those tight calls decide tight games and in tight games like that sometimes a vocal home crowd helps those decisions go your way (I certainly hope the crowd helps us at Welford Rd).

This Tigers team is still under development, we've already seen the game plan changed dramatically and the forwards coach "released by mutual consent". We will get there but it won't happen over night.

Oh and the the Racing head coach waving the imagine card was absolutely pathetic and needs to be stamped out of the game.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Heaf2 on Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:52 pm

It's funny how things turn out isn't it - I remember one year when Munster qualified after the most atrocious TMO call in a match in which they weren't even playing Smile

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Heaf2 on Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:54 pm

In fact I think that may have been the year they went on to win the final in Cardiff - I went to see that and the atmosphere was amazing ...

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:22 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Personally, I thought the Tigers missed a chance yesterday. That was some pack sent out by Racing but the Tigers didn't stretch them or tire them enough for me.

I think the return at Welford Road will be an entirely different game and one which the Tigers will win.

I'm not too disappointed. We were not clinical enough, that's for sure but it's difficult to simply wear down that Racing pack. They have high quality replacements for five of the starting 8 and the Racing backs aren't exactly small either.

On another day the TMO sees the knock on before the second try or the ref spots Lambie coming in from the side at the penultimate breakdown for the third try. Sometimes those tight calls decide tight games and in tight games like that sometimes a vocal home crowd helps those decisions go your way (I certainly hope the crowd helps us at Welford Rd).

This Tigers team is still under development, we've already seen the game plan changed dramatically and the forwards coach "released by mutual consent". We will get there but it won't happen over night.

Oh and the the Racing head coach waving the imagine card was absolutely pathetic and needs to be stamped out of the game.

I guess its just me having a very high regard for the Tigers which cloud my views somewhat but I honestly felt that a chance was missed yesterday. I think when the Tigers play Castres at home next weekend, we will see a very different approach from them.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:26 pm

Come on Scarlets, really taking it to Toulon in Toulon thumbsup
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Heaf2 on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:34 pm

Would be good to see an away win here ...

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Artful_Dodger on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:38 pm

Cmon Scarlets!

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:39 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Munster really have not deserved anything out of this game. Absolutely unimaginative in attack. Chris Farrell for all his size and defensive abilities is an absolute liability in attack.
Did he cost Munster 14 points today? You hard what was an awful throw for the intercept and was done for crossing when it looked like a certain try.

Not sure I would say he cost Munster 14 points but the pass for the intercept was extremely poor and telegraphed. It was a real shame as Munster were controlling things very well with Murray in the bin.

His blocking was also so bad, simply over run POM into contact and in that position I cant really say that Munster would have scored but Castres were on the back foot at that stage.

I simply felt that Munster were incredibly lucky. After Murray was binned for cynical play (could easily have been a penalty try awarded as well) Zebo really should have been binned and a penalty try awarded for his knock down. That would have left Munster with 13 men for around 7mins and I am sure that Castres would have taken advantage of that situation so early in the game and on the front foot.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by VinceWLB on Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:58 pm

Unbelievable Scarlets, why not run that counter attack from the turnover?

Kicking the ball away is a cancer to rugby.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by eirebilly on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:06 pm

Real shame for Scarlets to lose by 1 point. One hell of a comeback from them and they have certainly shown again what a quality side they are.
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Scottrf on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:08 pm

How was that not a penalty try to Toulon? Held up when nobody was 10.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by marty2086 on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:10 pm

Pretty sure the tap wasn't from the right spot either

Though not sure how Gorgodze wasn't in the bin for taking out the 9 twice in about two two minutes

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Artful_Dodger on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:10 pm

Valiant effort.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:11 pm

eirebilly wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Personally, I thought the Tigers missed a chance yesterday. That was some pack sent out by Racing but the Tigers didn't stretch them or tire them enough for me.

I think the return at Welford Road will be an entirely different game and one which the Tigers will win.

I'm not too disappointed. We were not clinical enough, that's for sure but it's difficult to simply wear down that Racing pack. They have high quality replacements for five of the starting 8 and the Racing backs aren't exactly small either.

On another day the TMO sees the knock on before the second try or the ref spots Lambie coming in from the side at the penultimate breakdown for the third try. Sometimes those tight calls decide tight games and in tight games like that sometimes a vocal home crowd helps those decisions go your way (I certainly hope the crowd helps us at Welford Rd).

This Tigers team is still under development, we've already seen the game plan changed dramatically and the forwards coach "released by mutual consent". We will get there but it won't happen over night.

Oh and the the Racing head coach waving the imagine card was absolutely pathetic and needs to be stamped out of the game.

I guess its just me having a very high regard for the Tigers which cloud my views somewhat but I honestly felt that a chance was missed yesterday. I think when the Tigers play Castres at home next weekend, we will see a very different approach from them.

Unfortunately we're not quite the force the we were. There's good foundations in place and if we'd been more clinical we could have won the game (Smith and May not taking chances in the corner). I expect us to perform better against Castres as well, then again they aren't as good as Racing (definitely not as massive up front) and we will be at home (which always helps).

What we might tweak is the pack with a little more dynamism and a little less lineout aerial ability. That might produce a more Tigerish home performance.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Heaf2 on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:13 pm

Scottrf wrote:How was that not a penalty try to Toulon? Held up when nobody was 10.

He said two were legal but I'm not sure how they could have been ...

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:27 pm

Heaf2 wrote:
Scottrf wrote:How was that not a penalty try to Toulon? Held up when nobody was 10.

He said two were legal but I'm not sure how they could have been ...
The quick tap was around 5 meters away from where it should have been. The Scarlets deserved at least a point from that.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by Heaf2 on Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:40 pm

Yep I agree with that - just answering the question Scott asked ...

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by nathan on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:19 pm

Sarries looking well on top so far, will be interesting to see how saints handle the second half

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by TightHEAD on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:31 pm

How did Farrell get away with the tackle followed up with a forearm / elbow to the face?
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by nathan on Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:53 pm

Nothing wrong with the tackle. If you are going to ping him for the elbow push (to the neck not face) then you have to apply the same sanction for harrison doing the same to him on the floor.

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by nathan on Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:13 pm

I do wonder about mallinder, saints best player has been lawes and yet he's still on the pitch. Why hasn't he taken him off? There is nothing to gain from this?

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by TightHEAD on Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:20 pm

French TMOs are not a talkative lot are they?
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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

Post by nathan on Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:24 pm

To be fair, thought they all had a good game.

Still shocked Mallinder chose not to take Lawes off

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Re: European Rugby Champions Cup 2017 - Round 1

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