Ulster Rugby 2017-18

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Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 12 Oct 2017, 2:35 pm

First topic message reminder :

Rory Best (hamstring)
Marcell Coetzee (knee)
Craig Gilroy (back)
Chris Henry (larynx)
Rob Lyttle (shoulder)
Al O'Connor (concussion)
Jared Payne (headaches)
Dave Shanahan (hamstring)
Nick Timoney (ankle)
Schalk van der Merwe (shoulder)

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 11:00 pm

I've never met him but what I've heard alligns more with Geoff's description Aukster. Different strokes for differernt folks potentially. Certainly I agree with you on the stamping down on the drinking culture.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ulster-rugby-star-roger-wilson-given-threeyear-road-ban-after-second-drinkdrive-offence-31365742.html

Again I'm told 3rd hand that the key sentences in this article are.

Police caught up with the car, which they found stationary and containing two men, with the professional rugby star in the driver's seat.

He added that the player had genuinely believed he was insured under Ulster Rugby's company car scheme.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 12:16 pm

Iain Henderson talking of interest in him from abroad and not being closed off to the idea. Probably playing up towards the negotiations but still a scary thought especially if he's ambitious and Ulster are going backwards

The IRFU have a battle on their hands to retain Iain Henderson's not-inconsiderable talents after the second-row revealed yesterday that he is the subject of interest from a handful of overseas clubs.
After Simon Zebo announced his departure from Munster last week, attention has turned to the coterie of high-profile internationals who are also out of contract at the end of season including Peter O'Mahony, CJ Stander, Rory Best and Henderson.
The 25-year-old is in line to be offered a central IRFU contract in the coming weeks and is likely to form a key part of Joe Schmidt's plans for the 2019 World Cup, having starred for the Lions in New Zealand last June without forcing his way into the Test team.

Henderson's rare power is a real asset to the Ireland team, while he is a major player for Ulster where he has been named captain in recent weeks.
However, his performances for the tourists have opened several doors and he says he will consider a move abroad despite Zebo being omitted from the Ireland squad as a result of his decision to sign for Racing 92.

"My contract is up at the end of the season and after the summer tour and stuff there has been some interest from other clubs and places," Henderson said at the launch of Canterbury's Rising Strength Video Series.
"Simon leaving and not being selected is done on a player basis and the form of his play and a few other factors.

"At the end of the day I will just sit down and have a chat with Joe, and maybe sit down with (IRFU performance director) David Nucifora and see before making any serious decisions.
"But I think those kind of chats and decisions about where to move to all come in to (play) probably a wee bit further down the year than in a while.

"I suppose it is kind of up for grabs at the same time, you've got to remember that it's players' livelihoods, their jobs.

"Like, if they're offering something like what I've read with Simon, a relatively lucrative amount that he mightn't have been offered by Ireland, it's a financial decision for him as well as a rugby decision."

Recently married and still young enough to move at the end of his next deal, Henderson is considered lower down the scale when it comes to the risk of an exit but after Zebo was prised away from his home province there is a sense that no one is beyond the reach of the French and English clubs.
"I'm not completely closed off to the idea," Henderson said of moving abroad.

"You've got your family, your friends, a club where you're already familiar with the coaches, the fans, the management - you're already established so there's obviously a side where you have got to understand that you'd have to go away and rebuild all of that.

"On the other hand, players sometimes have to think about themselves and sometimes the club a player's at will play on that and say, 'well, they're comfortable here so therefore we can offer them a bit less'.
"It's kind of trying to weigh up a couple of options and trying to see what's best for the player.
"It also depends on what club is approaching the player, there'll be some clubs who are more suitable for some players.

"Some players know other players at other clubs, some would be more suitable depending on languages whether it be France, Italy or whatever.

"Players moving, it's not just all about signing a piece of paper, there's a whole lot of lifestyle changes, house moves and stuff that go with it and that may prove to be slightly more difficult than it might seem at the start."
Prize

Languages, he conceded with a laugh, were never a strong point but the ball appears to be in the union's court if they are to secure a prize asset for the rest of this World Cup cycle and beyond.

Henderson is expected to profit from Donnacha Ryan's decision to take up an offer to move to Racing 92 by establishing himself in the Ireland second-row this season.

Last year, he was in a constant selection battle with the Munster man and eventually joined him in the engine room as Devin Toner was left out for the Six Nations finale against England.
Henderson revealed that Toner has been laid low by a bug this week, while Kieran Treadwell has been released to play for Ulster in South Africa this weekend.

With James Ryan recovering from the head injury he suffered last weekend, it appears likely that Henderson will partner Toner with Ultan Dillane on the bench against South Africa next week.

"I think three wins from three looks successful for Ireland," Henderson said of the month ahead.
"I think anything less than that we'd have to go away and look at reasons why it went wrong."

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 12:33 pm

I should add that other a brief chat I have never spoken directly to Paddy Jackson.

The observation is what I have been told by others inside the club.

Regarding a drinking culture under McCall, he wanted to stamp it out, but the then CEO refused to back him.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 12:34 pm

Henderson has been messed about re a central contract - he was, verbally, given a very strong indication his contract would be upgraded to a central contract this summer gone.

Never happened - I suspect he is a bit cheesed off about that.
Central contract next summer otherwise he will be off

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 12:41 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Henderson has been messed about re a central contract - he was, verbally, given a very strong indication his contract would be upgraded to a central contract this summer gone.

Never happened - I suspect he is a bit cheesed off about that.
Central contract next summer otherwise he will be off

So if he was given a Central Contract over the summer it probably would have cost the IRFU far less than if they give him one now after his Lions performances and the interest that's generated? Or Ireland and Ulster will lose a key player?

What use is Nucifora again?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 1:12 pm

Spot on
Logic is not the IRFU strong point

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 1:41 pm

Isn't Paynes contract up this year too? Meaning the IRFU and provinces could potentially lose 6 Lions come next season

Best I'm sure won't go but would enough money turn his head?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 1:47 pm

Payne's is up, as is Tommys, Trimble ?

I would be amazed if Henderson isn't offered a central contract but it will need to be a good one
Everything I have heard about Rory is he will retire after the WC - possibly getting a 1 year central contract as Joe does
not believe that an adequate replacement has emerged yet

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 1:52 pm

From everything you've said and from what I've read from Rory he seems to have his eyes set on the WC as his swansong but nothings guaranteed

Would an 50/100/150k for a year in France or even two appeal to him for greater security for his family?

It wasn't that long ago that Ireland were looking down the barrel of a tighthead crisis because Nucifora lost a game of bluff to Marty Moore

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by The Great Aukster on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 2:10 pm

Pete330v2 wrote:When Logan was being put on a pedestal for his commercial achievements I had pointed out on here that it was hardly an achievement when selling the Ulster brand at the time was like selling ice cold beer in Alex'.
NB claims that countless others could have achieved the same and I agree, anyone with even a touch of business acumen could have sold the Ulster brand when we were on the crest of a wave. Every man and his dog had season tickets. I personally know a half a dozen guys who had zero interest in rugby that were ST holders and never missed a match with their families. Needless to say not one of them even discuss rugby any more, they care only for the Man Utds and Arsenals of this world.
The brand is creaking, the bandwagon jumpers are gone and even the lifelong fans are losing interest in walking through the gates of the 'Kingspan'.

... except Ulster weren't on the crest of a wave - they won the CL in 2006 and then finished 5th, 9th, 8th, and 8th in 2010 when Logan joined in February.
After winning the CL in 2006 the attendance figures got a boost in 2007 based on the 'spin-off to season ticket sales' and went from an average of 72% utilisation of available ground capacity up to 80%.
if a comparison is drawn to Logan's tenure when Ulster topped the table (but didn't win the League) the average capacity utilisation went from 84% in 2013 to 95% in 2014. How did Ulster increase their revenues to overtake most of the clubs in GB and I? It was simple enough, the first thing Logan did was put the ticket prices up - that took a lot of nerve when the team was scrapping it out with Connacht at the foot of the CL to qualify for Europe.
I agree with Geoff that Logan managed the redevelopment of the ground very professionally. As well as garnering the necessary money, the first part of the development was to replace an underused terrace with a terrace and a corporate section, thereby not alienating a lot of hard core fans and at the same time getting some serious bang for his buck in the upper tiers. Neil Best can look back with 20 20 hindsight and say countless others could have done that yet he refrains from naming one because his comment is unsupportable. There were also plenty of naysayers at the time who simply wanted to build a new stand, and thought that Ulster would never fill the current 18k capacity unless they had a knock out game.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 9:30 am

a post on the other site

We now look really fekked unless a bit investment is made and we literally bring in four world class NIQs.
I fear we had our chance to build something and blew it.

That is spot on BUT:
- It is now 3 NIQ not 4
- What we don't have though is the money for 3 World Class NIQ - at best 1
- One spot already wasted on Deysel
- As a 10 is a must, unless Coetzee returns fit (unlikely) I reckon it will be a decent 10 and a decent backrower but neither world beaters

Rodney out till the New Year broken thumb requiring surgery

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 9:44 am

I don't think they need to be high profile or world class necessarily, at the end of the day players who are totally off the radar in terms of NZ selection, for example, could still be huge players for us. Particularly in the forwards. Look at Gibbins for Glasgow, he is one of their best players. For us, Sean Reidy has become one of our most consistent and important players, he is always fit and he is one of the few players that gives us go forward ball. More players like that would be just fine.

If we were able to push for one high profile player I would be looking at a 10.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 9:58 am

The problem is getting someone out of contract, isn't Carter leaving Racing at the end of the season? Whistle




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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 9:59 am

Bottom line is we are not good enough to win anything and will not be for the foreseeable future.
Sean Reidy is indeed a fine player and an asset to the club but we need top players to become competitive - we are not going to get them.
Depth wise we are going to fall off a cliff in the backs in the next 18 months

I also thing, whilst unlikely, Henderson will go if he doesn't get a good Central Contract.
(Never underestimate Nucifora capacity to fekk things up)
Henderson has gone public for a reason - to put a shot across the bows of the IRFU not to take him for granted.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 10:13 am

geoff999rugby wrote:a post on the other site

We now look really fekked unless a bit investment is made and we literally bring in four world class NIQs.
I fear we had our chance to build something and blew it.

That is spot on BUT:
- It is now 3 NIQ not 4
- What we don't have though is the money for 3 World Class NIQ - at best 1
- One spot already wasted on Deysel
- As a 10 is a must, unless Coetzee returns fit (unlikely) I reckon it will be  a decent 10 and a decent backrower but neither world beaters

Rodney out till the New Year broken thumb requiring surgery

I was talking to Rodney when he arrived at the clinic for his assessment. He described his injury as "a bit sore" Smile

We'll not be attracting the same quality of players these days, the marquee signings of previous years will not be looking towards Ireland unless it's short term, high return contracts. They know how they'll be treated should they find themselves trying to settle here so it'll be those who are well past their best or those who are a wee bit above the Pro14 average. All the provinces are fekked in regards to this but Ulster even more as we can't even attract players from this little island. I always said that reducing the NIQ numbers would hurt the provincial setup and ultimately the national setup.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 11:21 am

geoff999rugby wrote:Bottom line is we are not good enough to win anything and will not be for the foreseeable future.
Sean Reidy is indeed a fine player and an asset to the club but we need top players to become competitive - we are not going to get them.
Depth wise we are going to fall off a cliff in the backs in the next 18 months

I also thing, whilst unlikely, Henderson will go if he doesn't get a good Central Contract.
(Never underestimate Nucifora capacity to fekk things up)
Henderson has gone public for a reason - to put a shot across the bows of the IRFU not to take him for granted.

Honestly, I think the pack is one area of the field where consistency is far more important than game breakers. If the pack is made up of 8 lumps who can compete in line-outs, scrums, make their tackles and secure breakdown ball, I would be happy. For example, Reidy is hardly the most effective 7 on the deck, but he is a consistent performer, which is what we need. To me, this is more of a coaching issue. We do need to hold onto Henderson though, as he is one of the few genuinely top tier players we have.

We have backs who can turn a game around, but we have lost two of those and could lose many more in the next year. That is worrying in and of itself, but for years our backs have underperformed. Again, this seems to be a coaching issue. No platform from the forwards, no ideas from the backs, so we rely on individual brilliance (which is why Piatau is far more important than people give him credit for).

I should note that sacking everyone but Kiss and bringing in more coaches under Kiss could be a monumental error, if he is the common denominator with regards to the coaching issues.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 11:36 am

Agree with much of that but you simply have to have 3+ forwards who regularly break the gain line

We have NONE in our backrow (ignoring Coetzee)
Deysel once in a blue moon but his overall game simply isn't good enough
Henderson yes, Treadwell partial
Rodney the only one in the front row but his scrummaging is poor and his ball retention also

Also we are barely adequate at scrum time and even if the rumours about Marty Moore are true he wont change that.

It doesn't come close to adding up to being able to compete at the top table

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 12:10 pm

(1-8): Andy Warwick, John Andrew, Wiehahn Herbst, Kieran Treadwell, Alan O'Connor, Matty Rea, Chris Henry (captain), Sean Reidy;
(9-15): John Cooney, Christian Lealiifano, Andrew Trimble, Darren Cave, Louis Ludik, Craig Gilroy, Charles Piutau.
Replacements (16-23): Adam McBurney, Callum Black, Ross Kane, Robbie Diack, Clive Ross, Jonny Stewart, Peter Nelson, Tommy Bowe.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 12:22 pm

Still no vDM?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Pete330v2 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 12:45 pm

Van Der Merwe is another cluster**** of a signing unless it's related to his injury that he came here with. Yet Again. Either way he's not exactly been anything near value for money. Maybe the plan is for the squad to get a really early flight back and not wake him up for it Smile

Anyway, onwards with the campaign in hand and that's a strong squad to field. The Zebre debacle still stings enough that the Kings won't be taken for granted it seems but if that group of players can't get maximum points it really will be time to buy that new Leinster jersey and scarf combo.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 12:50 pm

Pete, I think a lot of people will think the same as you maybe missing that the Kings will have more depth now with the Currie Cup having finished. Saying that though their 3 feeder teams are in the lower tier and none made the play offs

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 1:22 pm

Fairly happy with that team. No reason they shouldn't be able to beat the Kings who are 0 from 7.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 1:30 pm

Just read vDM picked up a knock playing for the Ravens and isn't 100% picard

Apparently Bryn is doing some recruitment while in SA, he was seen heading in below to talk to some possible signings


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 1:51 pm

As I have been saying since the signing vDM will be a crushing disappointment.
He really isn't very good

To expand we really do shoot ourselves in the foot - we have 5 NIQ players on the books

2 aren't good enough, one is a sick note, one is temporary and one (the good one) is leaving next summer

You couldn't make it up picard

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 5:08 pm

Maybe losing some games mightn't be a bad thing then, we do too well without the NIQ players Nucifora might get ideas

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 9:16 am

No Nucifora will say you lost because you recruited NIQ badly - trouble is he would have a point.

I am convinced the model is broken.
I repeat Munster and Ulster will be nowhere near the top table in the coming years

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by clivemcl on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 1:12 pm

Are ulster in full self destruct mode. From a line out five metre out we find ourselves at a line out on our own 22 in all of five seconds. Abysmal.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by clivemcl on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 1:19 pm

The Kings horrendous handling only makes the shame of being 12-0 down all the worse!

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 1:22 pm

clivemcl wrote:The Kings horrendous handling only makes the shame of being 12-0 down all the worse!

The ref isn't helping though, not allowing anyone to go for the ball after a tackle, just calling hands off even when there's no ruck

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 1:22 pm

The only Ulster-produced player in that excellent try was Andrew Trimble. Piatau, CL, Cooney, Ludik and Reidy. Good thing we have them...

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by clivemcl on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 1:24 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:The only Ulster-produced player in that excellent try was Andrew Trimble. Piatau, CL, Cooney, Ludik and Reidy. Good thing we have them...
And it’s not like Trimbles part was in any way significant!

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by clivemcl on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 1:36 pm

Cave may have had a decent run, but actually he looked like an old man there. And his pass that gave the ball away was embarrassing.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 1:42 pm

So a two man overlap less than 10 metres out and no penalty try?


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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Artful_Dodger on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 1:48 pm

Can't kick....out of hand or for the posts, wind is ridiculous.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 1:49 pm

Is it the wind that is making us look as if we are running in slow motion?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 1:50 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Is it the wind that is making us look as if we are running in slow motion?

The hard pitch might be doing that Rory

But Immelman really is incompetent, offside at a tackle for Cave? Then the Kings just turned it over to end the half by kicking the ball out of a ruck Rolling Eyes

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:09 pm

Shocking positioning from the referee that has cost us the try.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by eirebilly on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:24 pm

Ulster improving but this is not a very good performance from them.

The referee has been terrible...
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:26 pm

Ref has been awful. I've only seen bits of the game but for that Kings try Ludik was massively offside but didn't get pinged and the ref was right there. Ludik then gets caught up in the ruck, clearly trapped but making an effort and it's a penalty. As it turns out they score anyway.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:26 pm

He's a SA referee isn't he? Every single SA referee I've seen, even at international level, has been awful.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by eirebilly on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:28 pm

Not sure that is a try for Ulster.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:29 pm

And the trouble came from him missing a knock on and penalising Clive Ross for what was a bloody good turnover

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:29 pm

Feed cut out for the disallowed try. There wasn't a player within 5m of Cooney. Not sure why they'd disallow.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:30 pm

1st disallowed one, Ross Kane's one was probably the right call.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by eirebilly on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:31 pm

The referee's positioning around the rucks is awful... He has no awareness at all.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by marty2086 on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:32 pm

And just goes and ignores the Kings taking out Cooney picard

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:33 pm

We could really use a captain to steady the ship here.

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by Redman on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:39 pm

Can we actually be called a professional team? Plucky amateurs perhaps?

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by clivemcl on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:41 pm

What a try fest. Wish I could say it has been entertaining. Might we actually lose this?


Last edited by clivemcl on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:42 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

Post by eirebilly on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 2:41 pm

Try after try after try in this game. This really should be enough for Ulster now to get the win.
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Re: Ulster Rugby 2017-18

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