Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by beninho on Sun 15 Oct 2017, 10:57 am

First topic message reminder :

I think bailly does look a good prospect, but he is pretty raw. The spurs pairing is probably the best in tge league as a partnership. I think mendy looks an immense left back, alonso also good, I think rose is better then bertrand though, when fit. I remember a time when full backs had to defend!

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by super_realist on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 7:59 am

raycastleunited wrote:Look Digs, like you I want this to be a watershed moment - the first fruits of the FA's long term youth development strategy. I just don't want to get too excited yet.

There is a big jump from youth to senior football. Most premier league clubs will opt for experience every time. The outlook has become so ridiculously short term that managers don't have enough time to take a risk or longer term view. And historically, English players have no desire to play abroad. So if only a handful of these players get exposure to top flight football, the majority will end up in the 100mph hustle and bustle of the football league, where players still get booed for retaining possession instead of knocking it forward, which is hardly the environment to develop the skills to win a world cup. I'll take off my pessimist hat now Rolling Eyes

Exactly, no one gets overly excited about a Brit winning Junior Wimbledon, Junior golf tournaments or Junior Athletics medals. Junior sports are at a completely different level, and the step up is like a club golfer going to the main tour. Even Walker Cup players just disappear into the ether. No one should expect it or even consider it likely, but somehow people expect football to be different, why? If anything there's probably more levels in football than in many other sports. Even going up one level is difficult, let alone a couple of dozen which is the difference between U17 and Full International (even the dismal England level)

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 9:29 am

Sorry Super, that's rubbish. If you know your sport you would know there was massive hype about Murray winning junior US Open. Same for Adam Gemini and Dina Asher Smith, both brilliant juniors. Look at the hype Rose got for his 4th place finish as an amateur. Every sport recognises young talent coming through.
You are ignoring the amount of players, if you look at all the big teams who achieve they will have players who we're successful at youth level. Messi is a big example, Neymar another, most of the fantastic Spanish generation. You won't get any success on a consistent level without a successful youth policy.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by beninho on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 9:41 am

pedro wrote:Athletic Bilbao has a policy of only signing players from the basque country - and is one the few teams in La Liga who has never been relegated. Quite impressive.

Real Sociedad (San Sebastian) followed the same policy — until they signed John Aldridge..

One of the first kits I got was an Athletic Bilbao shirt with Roberto Rios name and number, it was a centenary kit with a dragon or lion on it. I've liked them ever since. Though bloody hard to be on Football Manager due to the transfer policy.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by McLaren on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 9:57 am

pedro wrote:
Diggers wrote:Sunderland have a policy of only signing utter dross. It's largely unsuccessful funnily enough.
At least they stick to their policy. And if nothing else you can always say you support a club with integrity.

Laugh
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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by JAS on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 10:24 am

pedro wrote:Athletic Bilbao has a policy of only signing players from the basque country - and is one the few teams in La Liga who has never been relegated. Quite impressive.

Real Sociedad (San Sebastian) followed the same policy — until they signed John Aldridge..

Rangers used to have a “rather restricted” signing policy as well. :-/

Speaking of which, their next managerial appointment will be the most important in their history.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by beninho on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 11:30 am

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/27/us-teenager-who-won-golf-competition-denied-trophy-because-she-is-a-girl

Golf looking good again in the news!

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by JAS on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 1:15 pm

beninho wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/27/us-teenager-who-won-golf-competition-denied-trophy-because-she-is-a-girl

Golf looking good again in the news!

Marvellous!! :-/ we had a similar situation arise last year albeit at a much lower level when one of our main drawn events was won by a junior girl. Think I did mention it at the time. I was still on our committee at the time and actually had to argue the point that she WAS the outright winner. I would say that we ARE generally forward thinking club and very encouraging of juniors and have a very healthy junior section of both boys and girls although the healthy development of that section has been relatively recent. Even so the thought of a junior girl winning a big club event was not something on anyone’s radar....needless to say it is now.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Plunky on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 1:25 pm

i read that the runner-up (the official "winner") offered the trophy to Emily but she declined.  Too bad that his nice gesture didn't make it into the guardian article -- it would have been good to show that while the official rules etc can be stupid, golfers themselves tend to do the right thing.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by McLaren on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 2:38 pm

Plunky, I think the detail about the runner up trying to hand over the trophy was in the bbc version of the story, but agree it shows that the current generation of players is probably a little more open minded.

I don't really understand who runs a competition where only some of the players can actually win the event.
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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 2:47 pm

She also played from the boys' tees, making the decisions even more ridiculous.
Apparently she was unaware of the rule beforehand, tho' her coaches seem to have been.

About 20 years ago, a University of Vermont female student (who later played around the fringes of the LPGA Tour) competed on the men's Golf Team, as there wasn't a ladies Team.
UVM resolved that delicate matter by cancelling the men's programme as well.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 3:16 pm

Catalan declares independence! Where do they go from here, military rule from the Spanish Govt? Hard to see how it's not going to kick off in a massive way.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by McLaren on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 4:05 pm

How long before Russian announces that it recognises an independent Catalonia?
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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by super_realist on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 5:25 pm

I don't understand this whole Catalan thing. You can't just hold an unofficial referendum and then just declare you've left the country.
I can imagine this will give that fat little troll Sturgeon and her knuckle dragging cohorts ideas.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by super_realist on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 5:27 pm

JAS wrote:
pedro wrote:Athletic Bilbao has a policy of only signing players from the basque country - and is one the few teams in La Liga who has never been relegated. Quite impressive.

Real Sociedad (San Sebastian) followed the same policy — until they signed John Aldridge..

Rangers used to have a “rather restricted” signing policy as well. :-/

Speaking of which, their  next managerial appointment will be the most important in their history.

I don't think people care too much JAS< Scottish football is beyond dreadful, and Rangers are about as important within it as Arbroath.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by super_realist on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 5:31 pm

Diggers wrote:Sorry Super, that's rubbish. If you know your sport you would know there was massive hype about Murray winning junior US Open. Same for Adam Gemini and Dina Asher Smith, both brilliant juniors. Look at the hype Rose got for his 4th place finish as an amateur. Every sport recognises young talent coming through.
You are ignoring the amount of players, if you look at all the big teams who achieve they will have players who we're successful at youth level. Messi is a big example, Neymar another, most of the fantastic Spanish generation. You won't get any success on a consistent level without a successful youth policy.

The point is though Diggers, that if one player gets through from any of these "successful" teams it will be a massive achievement. THe vast majority of the players in any young youth level team will never make it. That's the nature of sport. Just because England are all of a sudden marginally better at that level, doesn't mean any more will get through than previously did.

Asher Smith and Gemini are hardly setting the world alight, very much lower tier. Rose also took years to make a mark after I think 22 consecutive missed cuts upon turning pro.


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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 6:03 pm

super_realist wrote:
Diggers wrote:Sorry Super, that's rubbish. If you know your sport you would know there was massive hype about Murray winning junior US Open. Same for Adam Gemini and Dina Asher Smith, both brilliant juniors. Look at the hype Rose got for his 4th place finish as an amateur. Every sport recognises young talent coming through.
You are ignoring the amount of players, if you look at all the big teams who achieve they will have players who we're successful at youth level. Messi is a big example, Neymar another, most of the fantastic Spanish generation. You won't get any success on a consistent level without a successful youth policy.

The point is though Diggers, that if one player gets through from any of these "successful" teams it will be a massive achievement. THe vast majority of the players in any young youth level team will never make it. That's the nature of sport.  Just because England are all of a sudden marginally better at that level, doesn't mean any more will get through than previously did.

Asher Smith and Gemini are hardly setting the world alight, very much lower tier. Rose also took years to make a mark after I think 22 consecutive missed cuts upon turning pro.


Lower tier? Are you serious? So finishing 4th in world events makes you second tier? Christ, what actually represents success in your world. DAS is 21, she's broken both British sprint records, on 2 months running after injury she made 4th in the world.
Back to football, it's simple maths. If you have say 5 decent junior footballers then you have little chance of them becoming senior stars. If you have 50, chances increase massively. We currently have more than ever, it's simple maths to assume some of these guys will be successful. Its exactly what happens in the Spanish system.
You are right, not all excellent juniors become great seniors. But it's even rarer for a great senior not to have been a great junior. If you take tennis, pretty much every great male player was top 10 in the world as a teenager.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by super_realist on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 7:43 pm

It's second tier when you are placing those sportspeople in comparison to England football team., although to be fair, Gemili and DAS and Thompson are better athletes than England ever will be at football and are more likely to get success.

England have never had a problem producing decent players, we get sick of hearing how it's golden generation this, or golden generation that, or such and such is world class, or this tournament is set up for x player to shine.  The problem is their main international set up. They can't seem to bring the youth attitude to the seniors. As someone said before, they've done well in youth football in the past, what happened at senior level later? Same old story. These recent successes are more than likely just another false dawn and another limp hope for those who think England actually have a chance in a tournament. Or, you could also say that youth football, doesn't necessarily translate to the real grown up version for England at least.

Tennis is a completely different game in regards to age, you pretty much have to be a top player as a teenager or you'll never be up there because many are on the decline at around 27-28, footballers are very different and it's reasonably rare for anyone to be a top player at 21-22, with them reaching their peak at around 28. So, if you are merely promising at 17, you've got a hell of a lot to prove.

Of course it's basic maths, but I don't see that the England Under 17, 19, 20's are producing anyone better or in greater number than what has come before, and more than likely most will sink without trace or end up at Barnet, Chesterfield or Southend (or if they're really unlucky, Sunderland)

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Fri 27 Oct 2017, 7:56 pm

If you can't see that the current youths teams are massively better than what had gone before, you're either being obtuse, in denial, or simply stupid. Possibly all three.
Your basic reasoning is that England have always been rubbish (you were proven wrong by stats but in usual form ignored the evidence) and will therefore always be rubbish, so why bother even trying. The most pathetically defeatistic attitude ever. So it's not surprising that when signs of progress, something being done to change a pattern...and is clearly working...then you ignore it.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Sat 28 Oct 2017, 1:16 pm

http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41775347
Have a look at this link Super, all about one of your favourite players. The stats at the end make for interesting reading, 96% pass completion for a centre back, not bad for a truly awful buy with no real attributes.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Sat 28 Oct 2017, 5:55 pm

And another trophy bagged by the "marginally improved" juniors, cracking match. Foden is an absolute gem, can see him featuring in quite a few games for City this year, mainly off the bench considering the quality they have up front.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by kwinigolfer on Sat 28 Oct 2017, 6:18 pm

Digs,
I'm surprised you haven't noted that the Englishman with European League experience was caught sight-seeing in Manchester for the Martial art.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Sat 28 Oct 2017, 6:31 pm

It was fairly Dier from a couple of players. Scrappy game really, but a good win for Utd.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by beninho on Sun 29 Oct 2017, 7:32 am

Didn't catch the spyrs game, but I had picked it being a tight game with united nicking it near the end. Proper mourinho style.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by super_realist on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 8:36 am

Diggers wrote:If you can't see that the current youths teams  are massively better than what had gone before, you're either being obtuse, in denial, or simply stupid. Possibly all three.
Your basic reasoning is that England have always been rubbish (you were proven wrong by stats but in usual form ignored the evidence) and will therefore always be rubbish, so why bother even trying. The most pathetically defeatistic attitude ever. So it's not surprising that when signs of progress, something being done to change a pattern...and is clearly working...then you ignore it.

Well done to England for winning the Children's World Cup. I'm not saying that England will always be rubbish (they have been for at least 30 years with the odd half decent tournament), but this win isn't an indication it will transfer to the adult team at all, nor is the Under 20's win. These players are effectively CHILDREN. They won a European trophy back in the 00's too. Guess what happened in the Senior team? NOTHING. So what's different with this? (and you talk about me ignoring stats)

There's nothing to show that these children who won this tournament will even make it to any sort of first team performance, they aren't even currently at Walker Cup level, and we know that most of them disappear into obscurity. England's EPL teams have a habit of not playing such guys, and will buy in better foreign players. Maybe one or two of those guys will get a game, but it's hardly going to turn England into a team which can improve enough to get to a SF is it?


As for John Stones, well he's having a good season among 3 or 4 very ordinary ones. We'll see if he can maintain it. Maybe he will, maybe he won't, but one good season out of 5 doesn't really fill me with confidence, and like every English player, looks very much better in domestic football when he's surrounded by better players than when he's with the dross of England soiling his shorts on International Duty.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by beninho on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 10:21 am

Did you watch much of stones at everton & barnsley?


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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by raycastleunited on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 11:25 am

super_realist wrote:
Well done to England for winning the Children's World Cup.

Laugh Laugh
Fair play that is funny clap

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by McLaren on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 11:28 am

Super

Not sure anyone said this would guarantee success for the senior national team but would you agree that repeated success at different youth age groups indicates that England have a decent group of young players coming through at the moment?

And if you agree with that don't you think England might have a bigger pool of talent from which to develop a new generation of superior quality players from than they have had for quite some time?
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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by raycastleunited on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 11:36 am

Diggers wrote:

Sorry Super, that's rubbish. If you know your sport you would know there was massive hype about Murray winning junior US Open. Same for Adam Gemini and Dina Asher Smith, both brilliant juniors. Look at the hype Rose got for his 4th place finish as an amateur. Every sport recognises young talent coming through.
You are ignoring the amount of players, if you look at all the big teams who achieve they will have players who we're successful at youth level. Messi is a big example, Neymar another, most of the fantastic Spanish generation. You won't get any success on a consistent level without a successful youth policy.

Diggers I agree with your comment above in bold, but the reality of your examples is that every sport recognises youth talent only when they succeed at adult level. Succeeding at junior level has no cachet until you achieve at senior level, although it is a fundamental building block.

Rose got hype for finishing 4th in the Open, not the junior open.
Dina Asher Smith hold British adult records (not much interest in junior records) and her strong performance in the World Championships this summer was against the best runners around regardless of age. Although she only finished 4th she got more recognition than if she had won a junior title.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by JAS on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 1:54 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

Not sure anyone said this would guarantee success for the senior national team but would you agree that repeated success at different youth age groups indicates that England have a decent group of young players coming through at the moment?

And if you agree with that don't you think England might have a bigger pool of talent from which to develop a new generation of superior quality players from than they have had for quite some time?

I would say on the balance of probability that if a country has the under 20s world champs and the under 17s world champs then clearly at youth development level they must be doing a lot right.

How much of it is genuine raw and developed talent and how much of it is well informed excellent coaching - we can guess/debate that until the cows come home.

Will it translate to senior level? Well many would think “epic fail” if they didn’t. I’m personally of the opinion that success at senior level will not necessarily follow, the commercial realities and money related distractions of the premiership could easily form a perfect storm to stunt the growth of these emerging groups of talent. Only time will tell.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 6:12 pm

raycastleunited wrote:
Diggers wrote:

Sorry Super, that's rubbish. If you know your sport you would know there was massive hype about Murray winning junior US Open. Same for Adam Gemini and Dina Asher Smith, both brilliant juniors. Look at the hype Rose got for his 4th place finish as an amateur. Every sport recognises young talent coming through.
You are ignoring the amount of players, if you look at all the big teams who achieve they will have players who we're successful at youth level. Messi is a big example, Neymar another, most of the fantastic Spanish generation. You won't get any success on a consistent level without a successful youth policy.

Diggers I agree with your comment above in bold, but the reality of your examples is that every sport recognises youth talent only when they succeed at adult level. Succeeding at junior level has no cachet until you achieve at senior level, although it is a fundamental building block.

Rose got hype for finishing 4th in the Open, not the junior open.
Dina Asher Smith hold British adult records (not much interest in junior records) and her strong performance in the World Championships this summer was against the best runners around regardless of age. Although she only finished 4th she got more recognition than if she had won a junior title.

For sure my examples are based on adult success, but my point is you don't get outstanding adult success without having outstanding juniors. DAS was hyped, and she was much hyped as a junior, as she was one of the best juniors ever. She said now proving to be our best ever senior sprinter. What our age group footballers have achieved apparently has never been achieved by any other country, it's not just new to England. Across the age groups they have played 38 games with an 89% win rate. Their only losses were 2 games, both on penalties.
I agree, it may come to nothing, but what they have achieved does deserve a massive amount of credit collectively. I do also believe winning tournaments is a lot easier with superstars, in Foden they have a guy who at least has the potential to reach that level.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 6:14 pm

beninho wrote:Did you watch much of stones at everton & barnsley?


Of course he did, just enough to have an informed opinion, even though he hates football.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by McLaren on Mon 30 Oct 2017, 10:55 pm

I guess there was something to the rumors. (Family guy 2005):
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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by super_realist on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 7:57 am

raycastleunited wrote:
Diggers wrote:

Sorry Super, that's rubbish. If you know your sport you would know there was massive hype about Murray winning junior US Open. Same for Adam Gemini and Dina Asher Smith, both brilliant juniors. Look at the hype Rose got for his 4th place finish as an amateur. Every sport recognises young talent coming through.
You are ignoring the amount of players, if you look at all the big teams who achieve they will have players who we're successful at youth level. Messi is a big example, Neymar another, most of the fantastic Spanish generation. You won't get any success on a consistent level without a successful youth policy.

Diggers I agree with your comment above in bold, but the reality of your examples is that every sport recognises youth talent only when they succeed at adult level. Succeeding at junior level has no cachet until you achieve at senior level, although it is a fundamental building block.

Rose got hype for finishing 4th in the Open, not the junior open.
Dina Asher Smith hold British adult records (not much interest in junior records) and her strong performance in the World Championships this summer was against the best runners around regardless of age. Although she only finished 4th she got more recognition than if she had won a junior title.

Spot on Ray, Whilst it is of course encouraging that England have won competitions at SCHOOLBOY level (and that's what it is), it doesn't even necessarily mean they have a deeper pool of talent or are even more likely to succeed in the future.
How often do we hear how England have no problem producing players? England's problem is not their players, it's their application. As a team at senior level they are HOPELESS and do not have the ability to play and adapt to international football. Is schoolboy competitions played the same as the Euro's or the World Cup? Of course not.

Nigeria have won the Under 17 World Cup FIVE TIMES. How has that translated to Worlds Cups? Ghana, Switzerland and Russia have won it too, whilst even Scotland reached a final (beaten by Saudi Arabia for goodness sake). So there is no evidence that winning this means your grown up teams will improve as a result or even produce a conveyor belt of talent. The gulf between this level and proper international football  is a chasm.

Spain and Germany have also never won the under 17 World Cup. Do you think they are losing sleep over that the way that some English people are getting a hard on about winning it? Of course not.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Roller_Coaster on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 9:21 am

Well, I'd rather England win the playground 5-a-side as it give a basis for better hope for the future. Note "hope" not expectation. It's better to have done well across the 3 age groups (and playing some good football) than not have done so.

Spain and Germany may not be losing sleep, but do you think they'd rather lose them? Of course not.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by McLaren on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 11:12 am

Super

I hope no one is getting hard on's over the under 17 world cup.
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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by raycastleunited on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 12:49 pm

super_realist wrote:
Nigeria have won the Under 17 World Cup FIVE TIMES. How has that translated to Worlds Cups?

Yeah, but that's probably because they fielded a team of adults.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by raycastleunited on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 1:02 pm

McLaren wrote:Super

I hope no one is getting hard on's over the under 17 world cup.  

And just to link your last 2 posts together: Kevin Spacey

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by beninho on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 2:50 pm

So, the FA opened St Georges Park in October 2012, within 5 years the u19 have won the european championship for the first time in 24 years, the u17 have won a euro and world cup, u20 have won the world cup for the first time, u21made the euro semis.

I doubt anyone is daft enough to mean this guarentees success, but it is also pretty clear that this is good for english football. Hopefully the players will get game time as they progress at their clubs.

I just don't understand how anyone can argue about it. Its unprecedented success at age level football for England teams.

Some of the players that have played at tge u17 world cups are impressive, look at the spain and brazil squads from 2009.



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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by super_realist on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 6:13 pm

Roller_Coaster wrote:Well, I'd rather England win the playground 5-a-side as it give a basis for better hope for the future. Note "hope" not expectation. It's better to have done well across the 3 age groups (and playing some good football) than not have done so.

Spain and Germany may not be losing sleep, but do you think they'd rather lose them? Of course not.

No, but they clearly don't think it's that significant, nor have they ever worried about not winning them. They won proper grown ups Euro's and World Cups without succeeding in these tinpot children's competitions several rungs down the pecking order and it hasn't done them harm not to win it has it?

Clearly it's positive for England given how barren and hopeless they are in the real tournaments, but there isn't any reason to think that any more of these players will make it through just because they've won some juvenile version of a trophy. I'm convinced people see the name "World Cup" and are playing it up to be something more significant than it is. They are effectively children's tournaments. The standard of these tournaments and the standard required to play in a proper tournament is a million miles away.

If people over the years like Beckham, Owen, Gerrard, Lampard, Cole, Ferdinand, King, Fowler, Wright, Shearer, Sherringham, Seaman, Kane, Alli etc can't perform consistently well in an England shirt, what likelihood is there that a pant wetting 15-16 year old is going to somehow have the ability in a few years just because they won some tournament on a completely different level. England will be lucky if 2-3 of these players ever make it through to a Premiership First X1, let alone make it to an International Tournament.

It's a bit like saying someone competing in the world 8 handicap tournament for under 17's can go on and prove himself in The Open, it's a million miles away.

The proof will be in the pudding (and as Partridge would say, it will be over their face), but there's no precedence for it, so like all England's tournaments, it's built on hope.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by dynamark on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 6:32 pm

England are throwing cash and resouces at the whole system
On the juniors thing we always give them their own prizes category off their tee.A good junior can start the summer hols off 20 and go back to school off 10.
Back today from the new hip op and whilst I would not recommend for a weekend break its amazing the instant lack of pain other than a bit of stiffness and tiredness.See how quickly I can get back to normality now.Once you get into the NHS system its very good.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 7:24 pm

Diggers wrote:
raycastleunited wrote:
Diggers wrote:

Sorry Super, that's rubbish. If you know your sport you would know there was massive hype about Murray winning junior US Open. Same for Adam Gemini and Dina Asher Smith, both brilliant juniors. Look at the hype Rose got for his 4th place finish as an amateur. Every sport recognises young talent coming through.
You are ignoring the amount of players, if you look at all the big teams who achieve they will have players who we're successful at youth level. Messi is a big example, Neymar another, most of the fantastic Spanish generation. You won't get any success on a consistent level without a successful youth policy.

Diggers I agree with your comment above in bold, but the reality of your examples is that every sport recognises youth talent only when they succeed at adult level. Succeeding at junior level has no cachet until you achieve at senior level, although it is a fundamental building block.

Rose got hype for finishing 4th in the Open, not the junior open.
Dina Asher Smith hold British adult records (not much interest in junior records) and her strong performance in the World Championships this summer was against the best runners around regardless of age. Although she only finished 4th she got more recognition than if she had won a junior title.

For sure my examples are based on adult success, but my point is you don't get outstanding adult success without having outstanding juniors. DAS was hyped, and she was much hyped as a junior, as she was one of the best juniors ever. She said now proving to be our best ever senior sprinter. What our age group footballers have achieved apparently has never been achieved by any other country, it's not just new to England. Across the age groups they have played 38 games with an 89% win rate. Their only losses were 2 games, both on penalties.
I agree, it may come to nothing, but what they have achieved does deserve a massive amount of credit collectively. I do also believe winning tournaments is a lot easier with superstars, in Foden they have a guy who at least has the potential to reach that level.

The Spanish system was rebuilt on the back of rebuilding their entire youth system, as was the massively successful French system. It was fundamental to creating a style of play that led through up through to the senior team. They clearly did give a toss and clearly did recognise the value of the groundwork. The Germans have always had that mentality, create a distinct playing style, that's why the St George set up is important...continuity. You can ignore the fact that the under 17's Euro winners (have to say I find it slightly disturbing that you seem obsessef with referring to 16 and 17 year olds as children) from 2014 went on to win this years Under 20 World Cup (do you think they are children, and the under 21 Toulon winners for the past 2 years?). Personally I see it as evidence of clear progress.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by beninho on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 7:28 pm



You know spain have won 6 u19 euro titles in 11 years germany won it in 2008 & 14, since 2003 spain have made the semi or final 4 times. Spain and Germany have won 4 out of the last 5 u21 titles.

So, if you believe the spanish or german fa's dont care about youth development and competitions, it shows your lack.of knowledge on football, something which is clear for all to see anyway.

Sone of the players brought through by spain and germany are now world cip and euro champs winners.

I have no idea what your mention of pant wetting 15/16 year olds doing better or 8 handicap golfers playing the open means, as no one seems to be expecting these players to suddenly play in the main team. I hope these players make it, unfortunately that will be down to the premr league teams.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Tue 31 Oct 2017, 8:11 pm

Super, having critiqued in detail the level of play Im assuming that you did actually watch quite a lot of the 2 World Cups they won?

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by raycastleunited on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 1:06 pm

super_realist wrote:
pant wetting 15-16 year old

Were you still wetting your pants at 15-16? That's not normal

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by raycastleunited on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 1:11 pm

Did anyone watch the Children's World Cup? Was it any good?

I didn't see any of it - am not interested in children's sport. Sky show junior golf from time to time which doesn't interest me in the slightest.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Roller_Coaster on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 1:51 pm

No, I was allowed an ice cream and I went and got one and it was strawberry and I enjoyed it and then we went to the park and it was cold and windy and I weed in my pants.

I am sixteen after all.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by raycastleunited on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 2:15 pm

Roller - 6 points in 4 days from the top 2. 6 more points than I expected. Reasons to be excited?

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by Diggers on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 3:51 pm

raycastleunited wrote:Did anyone watch the Children's World Cup? Was it any good?

I didn't see any of it - am not interested in children's sport. Sky show junior golf from time to time which doesn't interest me in the slightest.

I did, it was very good, nice to see the best young players in the world. Plenty of people pay money to watch the over 50 golf tour, that strikes me as far more strange, I'd rather watch the future than the past personally.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by beninho on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 4:33 pm

I barely get a chance to watch any football anyway, now the new little miss is with us doubt ill get a chance for anything ever. You forget how tired uou get, shes only been home one night. She liked the hours between 10-4, then when she is asleep I have to get the boy up for chilminder and nursery. But at least I dont need to do the feeding!

Anyway, do you qpr fans take an interest in your teams youth products? We gave Ebere Eze and he looks a pretty decent prospect, check out his goals against Cambridge to see the talent he has. We have jack williams but he has barely played.

Its good seeibg youngsters having spells in the lower leagues, think uou can tell a lot. Remember having Stephen Taylor from Newcastle years back, only played for a month and looked superb, he had a pretty good career in the premier league.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

Post by beninho on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 5:18 pm

These sexual harassment allegations are getting a bit out of control, thry are honestly starting to overshadow the initial reports of r*** and sexual asssault. Now we have people claiming to be harrasssed or upset because soneone propositioned them or touched them sonewhere. We've all hit on girls in bars and clubs and probably beeen a bit hands on, im sure.

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Re: Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

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