Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

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Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 12:15 pm

Ian Foster, the All Blacks assistant coach, expressed his regret at the changing nature of the fixture. “It would have been nice to have had a few more UK players against us,” he said. “It’s a great occasion we’re looking forward to but we’re mostly playing guys we recognise. It’s certainly changed, hasn’t it? It is what it is. We just agreed to a game. We’re looking forward to it but clearly the concept has changed. It’s more like a local derby.”
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/31/barbarians-robbie-deans-defiant-despite-all-blacks-local-derby-feeling

All Blacks apparently disappointed not to see more Northern Hemisphere players. I'm sure they are, but this is hardly a new development. The last time a Barbarians side taking on a touring team in Autumn looked anything like a shadow Lions selection was 1994 against South Africa. Even then, All Black Ian Jones was playing.

Still, teams did at least have a heavy home nations flavour. By the 2000 match against South Africa, only seven of the 22 man squad were from the North, and the trend has been for ever fewer. In 2009, New Zealand got to face Leigh Halfpenny, Jamie Roberts and Andy Powell but, aside from three Italians, it was a squad packed with southern stars. Not a single northern hemisphere appeared in last year's 31-31 draw against South Africa.

Of course, the easiest way for the All Blacks to have faced more northern hemisphere players would have been to agree to a match with England.


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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by lostinwales on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 12:19 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
Ian Foster, the All Blacks assistant coach, expressed his regret at the changing nature of the fixture. “It would have been nice to have had a few more UK players against us,” he said. “It’s a great occasion we’re looking forward to but we’re mostly playing guys we recognise. It’s certainly changed, hasn’t it? It is what it is. We just agreed to a game. We’re looking forward to it but clearly the concept has changed. It’s more like a local derby.”
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/31/barbarians-robbie-deans-defiant-despite-all-blacks-local-derby-feeling

All Blacks apparently disappointed not to see more Northern Hemisphere players. I'm sure they are, but this is hardly a new development. The last time a Barbarians side taking on a touring team in Autumn looked anything like a shadow Lions selection was 1994 against South Africa. Even then, All Black Ian Jones was playing.

Still, teams did at least have a heavy home nations flavour. By the 2000 match against South Africa, only seven of the 22 man squad were from the North, and the trend has been for ever fewer.  In 2009, New Zealand got to face Leigh Halfpenny, Jamie Roberts and Andy Powell but, aside from three Italians, it was a squad packed with southern stars. Not a single northern hemisphere appeared in last year's 31-31 draw against South Africa.

Of course, the easiest way for the All Blacks to have faced more northern hemisphere players would have been to agree to a match with England.


Pro players prioritise clubs over meaningless friendly shocker. It is a great shame but I can't see any easy way around it.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by propdavid_london on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 3:18 pm

Is the team up for BaaBaas yet?

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by kingelderfield on Wed 01 Nov 2017, 6:24 pm

propdavid_london wrote:Is the team up for BaaBaas yet?

I'll be there!

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by eirebilly on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 3:18 pm

The Barbarians have started well thumbsup
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by mid_gen on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 3:40 pm

ABs are rattled! As much as I respect their dominance of the past years, it's great to see them struggling Smile

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by Heaf on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 4:46 pm

Didn't look BB grounded that but just knocked it back before the Barbars player dived on it?

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by mid_gen on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 5:03 pm

Fun game, I hope the Baa Baas never die....it's just enjoyable to watch players out there still giving 100% but smiling and enjoying themselves.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 3:55 am

Meanwhile the Maori ABs beat Canada  51...9.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by The Great Aukster on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 9:33 am

Isn't it time these Barbarian games were granted full Test status? That BaaBaa side was arguably better quality than the Lions and at least they were playing for a good cause which should be acknowledged with the appropriate status.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by eirebilly on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 10:52 am

Hansen having a dig at Owens. Thought Owens did very well yesterday and at one stage even explained to the lads that although it was a Barbarians game, rugby rules came first.

http://sportlocker.ie/all-blacks-boss-steve-hansen-takes-completely-needless-pop-at-referee-nigel-owens/

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by kingelderfield on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 11:57 am

I really enjoyed the commitment of both sides, especially the Barbarians who upheld the traditions.

It was and will be interesting to see how the AB's adapt and play to the new Trial Laws, especially around the tackle/ruck in terms of breaking up the attack / defense. I suspected there will be greater decisiveness around where to move the ball away from the congested channels, either with greater width or actually through the ruck or with more short game kicking.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 3:22 pm

eirebilly wrote:Hansen having a dig at Owens. Thought Owens did very well yesterday and at one stage even explained to the lads that although it was a Barbarians game, rugby rules came first.

http://sportlocker.ie/all-blacks-boss-steve-hansen-takes-completely-needless-pop-at-referee-nigel-owens/


  If the Irish think they have an opportunity to criticize Hansen or anything All Black they will they will take it.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by eirebilly on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 3:34 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Hansen having a dig at Owens. Thought Owens did very well yesterday and at one stage even explained to the lads that although it was a Barbarians game, rugby rules came first.

http://sportlocker.ie/all-blacks-boss-steve-hansen-takes-completely-needless-pop-at-referee-nigel-owens/


  If the Irish think they have an opportunity to criticize Hansen or anything All Black they will they will take it.

Another well thought out response from you there auklandlaurie clap
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 3:46 pm

eirebilly wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Hansen having a dig at Owens. Thought Owens did very well yesterday and at one stage even explained to the lads that although it was a Barbarians game, rugby rules came first.

http://sportlocker.ie/all-blacks-boss-steve-hansen-takes-completely-needless-pop-at-referee-nigel-owens/


  If the Irish think they have an opportunity to criticize Hansen or anything All Black they will they will take it.

Another well thought out response from you there auklandlaurie clap

 My comment has a lot more thought behind it than your mates from Sportslocker does. and a bit of context wouldnt go amiss either.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by eirebilly on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 3:49 pm

Nah, you just make yourself look immature again. You are good for a laugh though, I will give you that thumbsup
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by eirebilly on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 3:53 pm

Anyways, no more entertaining the WUM's.

I thought the game was very good yesterday, the Barbarians did themselves very proud and really gave the AB's a good match. Was almost thinking they might sneak it but the AB's just upped a gear when needed to.
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 3:58 pm

eirebilly wrote:Nah, you just make yourself look immature again. You are good for a laugh though, I will give you that thumbsup

 If you didnt put all your energy into insulting people you might understand my reply, but hey you Irish cant help yourselves.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by eirebilly on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 4:08 pm

I tell you what auklandlaurie, if you actually comment on the article posted or have something intelligent to say other than accusing all Irish (stereotyping) of constantly criticizing anything Hansen or AB then you maybe, just maybe you could have a positive input here. As it is, you have such a pathetic victim mentality that you cannot do that.

I would also like you to point out where I actually criticized Hansen or the AB's, I just stated that I thought Owens had a good game as ref.

Actually, don't bother.

Sorry to anyone else reading this, fell into the trap again.
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by aucklandlaurie on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 4:15 pm

eirebilly wrote:I tell you what auklandlaurie, if you actually comment on the article posted or have something intelligent to say other than accusing all Irish (stereotyping) of constantly criticizing anything Hansen or AB then you maybe, just maybe you could have a positive input here. As it is, you have such a pathetic victim mentality that you cannot do that.

I would also like you to point out where I actually criticized Hansen or the AB's, I just stated that I thought Owens had a good game as ref.

Actually, don't bother.

Sorry to anyone else reading this, fell into the trap again.

 The article was headlined and written without any resemblance of the interview given by Hansen, or did you not get that Billy?

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by Heaf on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 11:23 pm

eirebilly wrote:Hansen having a dig at Owens. Thought Owens did very well yesterday and at one stage even explained to the lads that although it was a Barbarians game, rugby rules came first.

http://sportlocker.ie/all-blacks-boss-steve-hansen-takes-completely-needless-pop-at-referee-nigel-owens/


I think the officials did OK - although they should have looked more carefully at the kick ahead that they judged Barrett had touched down for a 22 drop out as it looked like it may have been grounded by the chasing BaaBaas player and if not by the one that subsequently dived on it after Barrett knocked it back within the in-goal area attempting to touch it down as it didn't look to me like he'd got any downward pressure on it.

Would have made for an even more interesting end to what was a very entertaining match.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by kingelderfield on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 2:21 am

Look again, B did ground it with his forearm, though to be fair, I too initially thought they'd got it wrong.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by Taylorman on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 9:16 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I tell you what auklandlaurie, if you actually comment on the article posted or have something intelligent to say other than accusing all Irish (stereotyping) of constantly criticizing anything Hansen or AB then you maybe, just maybe you could have a positive input here. As it is, you have such a pathetic victim mentality that you cannot do that.

I would also like you to point out where I actually criticized Hansen or the AB's, I just stated that I thought Owens had a good game as ref.

Actually, don't bother.

Sorry to anyone else reading this, fell into the trap again.

 The article was headlined and written without any resemblance of the interview given by Hansen, or did you not get that Billy?

Yes thats what I thought Laurie. Billy decides to change the whole direction of the thread by introducing a negative piece, then cries about not being positive. Aint that just grand... Doh

Sorry? Too late... thumbsdown

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 9:49 am

Sportlocker isn't alone in thinking Hansen struck a bum note with his comments. Chris Jones and Ugo Monye on the BBC sports podcast thought his comments unnecessary. Monye agreed that Owen didn't referee the match as he would a competitive fixture, but he still applied laws that romantics would prefer to see waived. The only real difference is that he sounded more concilatory when doing so.

Owens certainly isn't beyond criticism but, if Hansen was just gently kidding along, then he shoukl probably be aware that few outside NZ see him as a joker, and he'll be taken at face value.


Last edited by Rugby Fan on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 10:09 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 9:59 am

I'm not really sure he was anymore laissez faire than he normally is to be honest. He's a ref that doesn't blow until he thinks an advantage has been gained or lost depending on the situation. Difference here is that normally suits nz while they just weren't quite at the races on saturday.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by eirebilly on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 8:33 pm

Taylorman wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I tell you what auklandlaurie, if you actually comment on the article posted or have something intelligent to say other than accusing all Irish (stereotyping) of constantly criticizing anything Hansen or AB then you maybe, just maybe you could have a positive input here. As it is, you have such a pathetic victim mentality that you cannot do that.

I would also like you to point out where I actually criticized Hansen or the AB's, I just stated that I thought Owens had a good game as ref.

Actually, don't bother.

Sorry to anyone else reading this, fell into the trap again.

 The article was headlined and written without any resemblance of the interview given by Hansen, or did you not get that Billy?

Yes thats what I thought Laurie. Billy decides to change the whole direction of the thread by introducing a negative piece, then cries about not being positive. Aint that just grand... Doh

Sorry? Too late... thumbsdown

Care to explain? What was in the link is what was said. Did I do anything wrong in posting this? Did I agree or was I simply applying a link to what was said?

Attack the link, not the poster or is that above you capabilities?
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by aucklandlaurie on Mon 06 Nov 2017, 9:20 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Taylorman wrote:
aucklandlaurie wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I tell you what auklandlaurie, if you actually comment on the article posted or have something intelligent to say other than accusing all Irish (stereotyping) of constantly criticizing anything Hansen or AB then you maybe, just maybe you could have a positive input here. As it is, you have such a pathetic victim mentality that you cannot do that.

I would also like you to point out where I actually criticized Hansen or the AB's, I just stated that I thought Owens had a good game as ref.

Actually, don't bother.

Sorry to anyone else reading this, fell into the trap again.

 The article was headlined and written without any resemblance of the interview given by Hansen, or did you not get that Billy?

Yes thats what I thought Laurie. Billy decides to change the whole direction of the thread by introducing a negative piece, then cries about not being positive. Aint that just grand... Doh

Sorry? Too late... thumbsdown

Care to explain?  What was in the link is what was said. Did I do anything wrong in posting this? Did I agree or was I simply applying a link to what was said?

Attack the link, not the poster or is that  above you capabilities?

 Billy I did attack the link, and when I did, you turned round and praised me for my well thought out response, Thank you. But then you go and F$%k it up by suggesting I was immature.

 Might I respectfully suggest that you read Rugby Fan's remarks, because he was bang on the mark. Hansen was indulging in a bit of humour, something which was appreciated by members of the press corp present at the media conference. Even Beaudie and Fozzy laughed.

 Banter on the pitch was the subject of the line of questioning, which flowed throughout the game but mostly between Nigel and Andy Ellis and Nigel and the water boy. Got to give it to Nigel though, Kieran Read didn't know what to say when Nigel told him he was reffing the Wales/AB test.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by Rugby Fan on Tue 07 Nov 2017, 1:36 pm

Scotty Stevenson does a podcast with Mils Muilana called "The Short Ball". At the 19:20sec mark in the current episode, Stevenson says "I thought the potshot at Nigel Owens was totally outrageous". He says he didn't know if Hansen was trying to take pressure off the All Blacks, because they didn't really click, or whether it was "Steve being Steve".

Stevenson agrees with Hansen that Owens didn't referee it like an ordinary Test but feels that the nature of the fixture was clear to all parties beforehand, and Owens struck the right balance.

Mils had no comment, because he hadn't heard what was said. he did think Hansen would have been frustrated by the way his team appeared to approach the game. On the plus side, he was happy to see so many New Zealanders in the Barbarians putting in a good performance,

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by Taylorman on Tue 07 Nov 2017, 11:51 pm

Don't get why the Baabaas isnt limited to NH players only when its their tradition. Why does NZ have to front to Twickenham with most of the side as well? was no more than a Super rugby trial for our guys.

Now Bundi O'kee is in the Irish squad. 3 years and one day is it?

is there anything left they can't do for themselves up there.

Hopeless.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by ebop on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 12:21 am

The ABs need 3 more tries to reach 2,000

Try tallies
All Blacks - 1997 in 563 tests - 3.5 per test
France - 1708 in 740 tests - 2.3
Australia - 1616 in 615 tests - 2.6
Argentina - 1694 in 428 tests - 3.7
England - 1579 in 712 - 2.2
Wales - 1514 in 701 - 2.1
South Africa - 1329 in 473 - 2.8
Japan - 1314 in 339 tests - 3.8

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11941766
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by ebop on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 4:51 am

Taylorman wrote:Now Bundi O'kee is in the Irish squad. 3 years and one day is it?
Shameless cultural appropriation from Ireland
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 6:07 am

Deliberate irony?

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 11:51 am

Taylorman wrote:...Why does NZ have to front to Twickenham with most of the side as well?...
The NZRU elected to accept the Barbarians invitation because they would get paid more for that match than any other offer. Seems a bit odd to complain about something the NZRU went into with eyes wide open.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by lostinwales on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 12:37 pm

Taylorman wrote:Don't get why the Baabaas isnt limited to NH players only when its their tradition. Why does NZ have to front to Twickenham with most of the side as well? was no more than a Super rugby trial for our guys.

Now Bundi O'kee is in the Irish squad. 3 years and one day is it?

is there anything left they can't do for themselves up there.

Hopeless.

In an ideal world the baabaas should be either mostly or restricted to NH players. The problem is that their clubs do not want to release the players for the games because its the middle of our season. It is not a problem that is going to be solved easily

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by Taylorman on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 7:20 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Taylorman wrote:Don't get why the Baabaas isnt limited to NH players only when its their tradition. Why does NZ have to front to Twickenham with most of the side as well? was no more than a Super rugby trial for our guys.

Now Bundi O'kee is in the Irish squad. 3 years and one day is it?

is there anything left they can't do for themselves up there.

Hopeless.

In an ideal world the baabaas should be either mostly or restricted to NH players. The problem is that their clubs do not want to release the players for the games because its the middle of our season. It is not a problem that is going to be solved easily

Yes Im aware of that but its simply another example of the general selfishness of northern hemisphere rugby who create so many vacuums in the professional game that other, poorer nations get lulled into filling.

As a fan that sux, and NH fans should be embarrassed that their resource rich unions have to rely on outsiders so heavily.

That 65,000 turn up to a match not even of the quality of some super rugby trial matches we would get a few hundred to beggars belief.

No coaches, buy em in, no players, buy em in , no internatonals get guys like O'kee a contract.
Now its no baabaas, get a whole new team in.

Then to read comments like NZ are vulnerable.

Well gee, fancy that. The NH looks as though it would simple fall apart if it were for a bigger population.

Sure our players will sing for their supper but the NH embarrasseses itself in not being able to fill from within.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by ebop on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 7:54 pm

Nailed it Tman. Gone are the days when SH teams used to pump the living daylights out of the home unions by cricket scores. Now we play hybrid NH/SH teams coached by SH coaches with their stolen IP. It’s little wonder they’re more competitive. But the essence of British/Irish rugby has diminished. A shame really. This era of British/Irish rugby has an asterisk next to it
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 8:00 pm

Lol. The chatter always starts when people feel threatened.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by ebop on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 8:25 pm

Lol. That’s always your response when the truth is too close to the bone.
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by No 7&1/2 on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 8:34 pm

Ups and downs in rugby ebop. Chin up.

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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by ebop on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 8:44 pm

You’d know all about downs 7.5 after recent RWCs so maybe I shouldn’t be so uncharitable. As an aside, fantastic news for Samoa. The RFU are giving them a whopping £75k.
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by eirebilly on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 9:04 pm

aucklandlaurie wrote:
 Billy I did attack the link, and when I did, you turned round and praised me for my well thought out response, Thank you. But then you go and F$%k it up by suggesting I was immature.

 Might I respectfully suggest that you read Rugby Fan's remarks, because he was bang on the mark. Hansen was indulging in a bit of humour, something which was appreciated by members of the press corp present at the media conference. Even Beaudie and Fozzy laughed.

 Banter on the pitch was the subject of the line of questioning, which flowed throughout the game but mostly between Nigel and Andy Ellis and Nigel and the water boy. Got to give it to Nigel though, Kieran Read didn't know what to say when Nigel told him he was reffing the Wales/AB test.


Hmm, this was your response, hardly responding to the article, just another immature racist response from you. Clear to see above...

aucklandlaurie wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Hansen having a dig at Owens. Thought Owens did very well yesterday and at one stage even explained to the lads that although it was a Barbarians game, rugby rules came first.

http://sportlocker.ie/all-blacks-boss-steve-hansen-takes-completely-needless-pop-at-referee-nigel-owens/


 If the Irish think they have an opportunity to criticize Hansen or anything All Black they will they will take it.



I have have left this site but wanted to highlight your hypocrisy once again. You and your your ilk are an absolute disgrace to this site and all that it has become. You lot are a complete embarrassment to the true AB fans of which I have met many. Pathetic keyboard warriors at best.
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Re: Barbarians vs New Zealand Nov 4th

Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 08 Nov 2017, 10:53 pm

Taylorman wrote:...Yes Im aware of that but its simply another example of the general selfishness of northern hemisphere rugby who create so many vacuums in the professional game that other, poorer nations get lulled into filling...That 65,000 turn up to a match not even of the quality of some super rugby trial matches we would get a few hundred to beggars belief...
You've got things backwards, T-man. New Zealand needed the Barbarians game much more than the North needed it. The NZRU wanted revenue, and the Barbarians fixture provided it. If The NZRU hadn't been so focused on money - I believe you prefer the word "selfish" - they would have arranged a standard fiixture against England, instead of trying to hold out for a big payout.

Rather than sneer at a rugby match drawing 65,000 in England, it might be better to think how good that is for the sport. The annual Army vs Navy fixture at Twickenham draws 80,000, and sells out weeks in advance. Don't recall an overwhelming number of New Zealand rugby players featuring in it. There are fixtures in the rugby calendar which draw crowds because they are events, not just matches. Sounds to me like quite a good thing.

It's more of a problem for rugby when crowds are unwilling to turn out for anything other than the top fare. Or, as we saw recently with the Wellngton Sevens, not even willing to turn out to see top international teams in a top competition.

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