Question; Have England peaked too soon?

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Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by kingelderfield on Thu 02 Nov 2017, 9:57 pm

England were undefeated throughout 2016. They enacted the fabled dead cat bounce of the association code, trusted to the young Turks at Saracens and following the RFU's financially successful 2015 world cup, where bonuses were paid to our winning team of venture capitalists (organising committee, ed.), the players responded to an international coach who had actually coached internationally before (or at any level for that matter).

The problem is that maybe in attempting to challenge and beat the All Blacks, they had taken the act of flattery too far and peaked too soon?


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Re: Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by Gwlad on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 3:54 pm

yes

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Re: Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by lostinwales on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 5:26 pm

Gwlad wrote:yes

I guess you should know, given that you are an expert in that area.

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Re: Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by Gwlad on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:27 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Gwlad wrote:yes

I guess you should know, given that you are an expert in that area.

while you are not

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Re: Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by kingelderfield on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:39 pm

Peaky blinders aside, I do think it's a sensible question.

The Saracens story rolls on but will their influence continue to counter the corrosive effects of 'too much rugby' and the resultant injuries - and more than this, the question is, have we let our expectations run away with us?
Are we going to be able to progress beyond the excellent performances that did for Ozy in 2016 or was that our high point and will the 'next level' remain out of reach to this generation of players?

My opinion is that we have every reason to believe that real progressive can happen, and the WC, and everything it entails, can be achieved. As they say its the hope that kills you.

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Re: Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by Scottrf on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:50 pm

I think 2016 was better than 2017.

Whether it's a peak or whether this just hasn't been quite as good remains to be seen. Form goes up and down and it's still a very high level.

I'm inclined to think we have good additions to come and don't think it's a downward trajectory.

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Re: Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:57 pm

Injuries hit arguably a little harder in 2017 than 2016 so perhaps understandable.

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Re: Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 8:38 pm

Injuries may hurt us a little this season but we know that squads win world cups not teams. Rotation in the summer increased competition and we have some exceptional young players coming through, if we can integrate them early this could work for us long term even if results are mediocre in the short.

I don't think this England side has realised it's potential and played it's best rugby yet. There's some weaknesses to iron out that could propel this team further.

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Re: Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by Gwlad on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 12:12 am

Will England play Ford Farrell after Gatland unlocked that potential in NZ? Knowing Eddie he will balk at Sir Warren's idea.

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Re: Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 9:52 am

Gwlad wrote:Will England play Ford Farrell after Gatland unlocked that potential in NZ? Knowing Eddie he will balk at Sir Warren's idea.

You mean will Eddie continue with the combination of the last two/three years? Yeah probably. Nice to see Gatland learn something from Eddie in the summer. Wales might benefit from the decision to have a playmaker at 12 with English developed Owen Williams the likely option.

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Re: Question; Have England peaked too soon?

Post by Poorfour on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 10:51 am

Just to put this into perspective, here are the records of the world's 2 top ranked teams in 2017:
P 10 W 7 D 1 L 2
P 7 W 6 D 0 L 1

England have an 85% winning record, New Zealand 70%...

They played 5 of those games with a lock at 6, and won 4 of them, albeit several of them narrowly. The loss itself was a narrow away loss in Dublin, which has traditionally been a place where England have lost heavily. I personally believe that injuries were a major impact on that game - a fit Kruis and Robshaw could have been enough to make a 5 point difference.

However, they then won two tough away games in Argentina with a very inexperienced squad that broadened the player base considerably.

There's clearly a lot more to be done in terms of squad development and getting consistency in defence, and there remain a couple of positions where we are short of experienced depth - primarily 7, 9, 12, 15 but particularly 6.

I don't think England have peaked too soon. I doubt they will maintain a winning record all the way to the 2019 RWC, but if they learn something from those losses it will still be progress.

This autumn England have a fairly easy schedule but the Australia game will be a good test of where they are. Traditionally France do well in the 6N after a Lions tour and it looks like England will be struggling with a long injury list - but that's a chance to give new players valuable experience.

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