Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

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Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 3:07 pm

I was in Australia recently speaking to someone that knows him quite well. He predicted that Jones will at some point have a falling out with the RFU and everything will come crashing down sooner rather than later. His point was that this tends to be what happens with Jones and his fairly short tenure as head coach in each team of his long coaching career possibly backs this up.

Years            Team
1994             Randwick
1995–1996    Tokai University
1996             Japan Assistant
1997             Suntory sungoliath
1998–2001    Brumbies
2001–2005    Australia
2006             Saracens consultant
2007             Reds
2007             South Africa (Assistant)
2007–2009    Saracens
2009–2012    Suntory Sungoliath
2012–2015    Japan
2015–           England

I recall some newspapers had reservations over this very fact prior to his appointment with England.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/19/eddie-jones-england-head-coach-role

The question is will he be able to keep it all together through the RWC in 2019 or are England building towards a fall ala the 2015 RWC?


Last edited by Collapse2005 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 3:18 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Gwlad on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 3:15 pm

Spot on. He is prickly, rough round the edges, cantankerous and arrogant. However Jones has a straight run into 2019 and if he wins that he is going to be just fine. And I dont think the RFU has anybody who really knows how to handle him. If he doesn't win RWC then he will move/be moved on.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Scottrf on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 3:19 pm

Right now any other international side would take him, and I'm happy.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Gwlad on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 3:28 pm

Scottrf wrote:Right now any other international side would take him, and I'm happy.

Wales wouldn't, Australia wouldn't NZ wouldn't. Japan also wouldn't. thumbsup

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 3:35 pm

I don't think Ireland would either to be honest.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Barney McGrew did it on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 3:57 pm

Eddie boy manages the world number 2 side with an enviable track record, and you don’t think other sides would want him? Or that he’s somehow a disaster waiting to happen. Yeah right. Keep trying.
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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Collapse2005 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 4:08 pm

Ireland aren't that far behind England with significantly less resources so no I don't think we would want to swap Schmidt for Jones at all. Would be "funny" if they were the next Lions coaching duo though.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Gwlad on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 4:28 pm

why "funny" and not just funny? and why funny anyway?

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 4:38 pm

Think its all good then. We all prefer our own set of coaches.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by lostinwales on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 5:23 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Ireland aren't that far behind England with significantly less resources so no I don't think we would want to swap Schmidt for Jones at all. Would be "funny" if they were the next Lions coaching duo though.

Ireland at their best are a very good team, (until the other weekend the only team to have beaten the top 2 ranked teams for a while). But they are not consistent.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Poorfour on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 5:55 pm

Looking at that coaching record, he's never failed to take an international team to the RWC, and his record is Finalist, Winner, best ever performance at the RWC by a Tier 2 team. The only time he's left an International coaching job mid cycle was when Australia sacked him, and that was twelve years ago.

I think Eddie knows he has a finite shelf life, hence his insistence he will leave after 2019. He also has a track record of using up players - but that matters much less with England than with any of the other teams he's coached, because there is a bigger pool to work with. I think also that the core of his squad are a bunch of players who have unfinished business at the RWC and are probably as prepared as he is to push themselves to the limit in pursuit of it.

This autumn and the 6N will be a big test, given the number of injuries mounting up. We will see how he does.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by TJ on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:13 pm

Scottrf wrote:Right now any other international side would take him, and I'm happy.

Don't think Scotland would.

However Jones has done great things with England and my bet is the RFU will go a long way to keep him and keep him happy

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:24 pm

Jones is a good coach but to claim other would take him is nonsense

As illustrated there are, at least, 6 who wouldn't.
I would add Italy to that - very happy with what O'Shea is achieving

In fact turn it on its head which of the top nations would take him - any ?
Nearly all would rather keep what they have got

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Scottrf on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:27 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Jones is a good coach but to claim other would take him is nonsense

As illustrated there are, at least, 6 who wouldn't.
I would add Italy to that - very happy with what O'Shea is achieving

In fact turn it on its head which of the top nations would take him -  any ?
Nearly all would rather keep what they have got

Absolute nonsense. Whenever player comparisons are done people accuse most of England's players of being average and below their counterparts and now we have a coach nobody would want.

Meanwhile we will keep picking up 6N trophies.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Scottrf on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:39 pm

I mean Japan wouldn't want him despite being in charge for all of their significant victories ever?

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by kingelderfield on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:47 pm

EJ is the right man in the right place at the right time - trust me its destiny.

I also think his health scare a couple of years ago will have only reinforced his knowledge that such opportunities are rarer than hens teeth.


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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:49 pm

Let's be honest. If a nation's manager left and Jones was available, most (bar NZ) would be interested in Jones. Hes done a great job with England and is a top coach. It's not crazy to suggest this.

Similarly, I imagine England would be interested in Schmit etc, if we were looking for someone.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by kingelderfield on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 6:59 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Let's be honest. If a nation's manager left and Jones was available, most (bar NZ) would be interested in Jones. Hes done a great job with England and is a top coach. It's not crazy to suggest this.

Similarly, I imagine England would be interested in Schmit etc, if we were looking for someone.

I think it's actually more than this. I think Jones is a great fit for England. Call it cultural personality or national psyche I just think his little general act presses all the right buttons for the players - basically they want to please him, they want to play for him - they will follow him and do his bidding.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Scottrf on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 7:03 pm

Agree with that. Think players react to his honesty and high standards.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by lostinwales on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 7:04 pm

kingelderfield wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Let's be honest. If a nation's manager left and Jones was available, most (bar NZ) would be interested in Jones. Hes done a great job with England and is a top coach. It's not crazy to suggest this.

Similarly, I imagine England would be interested in Schmit etc, if we were looking for someone.

I think it's actually more than this. I think Jones is a great fit for England. Call it cultural personality or national psyche I just think his little general act presses all the right buttons for the players - basically they want to please him, they want to play for him - they will follow him and do his bidding.  

Agreed. A very good fit for England and possibly a poor fit for some of those other teams. I wouldn't want any other coach for England right now

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 8:33 pm

kingelderfield wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Let's be honest. If a nation's manager left and Jones was available, most (bar NZ) would be interested in Jones. Hes done a great job with England and is a top coach. It's not crazy to suggest this.

Similarly, I imagine England would be interested in Schmit etc, if we were looking for someone.

I think it's actually more than this. I think Jones is a great fit for England. Call it cultural personality or national psyche I just think his little general act presses all the right buttons for the players - basically they want to please him, they want to play for him - they will follow him and do his bidding.  

England needed some harsh honesty after the last RWC and Jones provided it. His mix of pragmatism and innovative motivational methods have done wonders. He's enhanced his reputation further and if he can orchestrate wins over NZ next Autumn and a RWC final I doubt there will be any international team bar NZ who wouldn't consider recruiting him should he leave England after the RWC.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by ebop on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 8:41 pm

EJ is perfect for England. Restore some much needed confidence to the largest and wealthiest rugby union after two horrendous RWC campaigns. Agree with others that not many other top countries would want or need him. He’s a good coach for teams with little or no self belief like England were and Japan. Many are waiting patiently to see how he handles a string of underwhelming results and whether he does the implosion thing. The sweat-o-meter readings on his forehead have ramped up a few times but he’s always managed to quell it so far.
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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by mikey_dragon on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 10:00 pm

I can't think of any teams that are unhappy with their coaching set up enough to want EJ right now, typical English arrogance to assume that. EJ came into the England set up at a time when most premiership clubs were performing at a very high standard so it's no surprise they've done well. EJ's impact has been little, he just made a few tweaks and it's worked. I imagine the winning streak will end at some point. The moment England actually lose two games on the bounce is probably when it will go downhill, but I can't really see that happening any time soon.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by formerly known as Sam on Fri 03 Nov 2017, 10:20 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:I can't think of any teams that are unhappy with their coaching set up enough to want EJ right now, typical English arrogance to assume that. EJ came into the England set up at a time when most premiership clubs were performing at a very high standard

The performance of the AP teams didn't help Lancaster did it.

Eddie won't be available until 2019. Are you telling me in 2019 after the RWC no one will fancy hiring Eddie? It's not English arrogance. Someone else will need a rescue job like we needed one after the farce of the last RWC and that's a role Eddie is very good at. He'll have offers and I wouldn't be surprised if they included Wales and South Africa.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 12:50 am

Not particularly, but they became a lot better in 2015/16. Lancaster didn’t change things up when it was necessary, that’s why England weren’t as good as they are now. He still built a good team though.

I believe somebody said if EJ became available right now then everyone would want him and I see no reason why that’s so. I’m sure there will be a number of French clubs and perhaps some international teams who would like his signature post 2019. EJ would be a good choice for Wales in 2019 but until then we’ll continue to put faith in the most successful Lions coach EVER Wink.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Scottrf on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 4:34 am

mikey_dragon wrote:I can't think of any teams that are unhappy with their coaching set up enough to want EJ right now, typical English arrogance to assume that. EJ came into the England set up at a time when most premiership clubs were performing at a very high standard so it's no surprise they've done well. EJ's impact has been little, he just made a few tweaks and it's worked. I imagine the winning streak will end at some point. The moment England actually lose two games on the bounce is probably when it will go downhill, but I can't really see that happening any time soon.

Seen plenty of Irish fans unhappy that they are so inconsistent and that they can only win through motivated physical performances. And plenty Wales fans unhappy with Gatland's tactics.

Seriously though every time an England player was discussed for Lions selection other nations fans were calling them average, so I'm struggling to see how we ever win.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Gwlad on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 5:13 am

I think English arrogance and Eddie jones go together like fine bedfellows.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 9:18 am

Scottrf wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:Jones is a good coach but to claim other would take him is nonsense

As illustrated there are, at least, 6 who wouldn't.
I would add Italy to that - very happy with what O'Shea is achieving

In fact turn it on its head which of the top nations would take him -  any ?
Nearly all would rather keep what they have got

Absolute nonsense. Whenever player comparisons are done people accuse most of England's players of being average and below their counterparts and now we have a coach nobody would want.

Meanwhile we will keep picking up 6N trophies.

OK tell which top nation would swap their current coach for Jones.
Either put up or shut up

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by TJ on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 9:19 am

Scottrf wrote:Right now any other international side would take him, and I'm happy.

We were mainly debating this - not would we have him in 2019. Scotland certainly do not need him right now and I doubt ever as I amnot sure his ways would suit our players

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 9:23 am

I'll give you a hint none of the other 6N teams would make the swap.
Neither Australia or NZ would be interested

SA I honestly don't know how Coetzee is viewed.
Doesn't leave much does it

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 10:04 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Not particularly, but they became a lot better in 2015/16. Lancaster didn’t change things up when it was necessary, that’s why England weren’t as good as they are now. He still built a good team though.

I believe somebody said if EJ became available right now then everyone would want him and I see no reason why that’s so. I’m sure there will be a number of French clubs and perhaps some international teams who would like his signature post 2019. EJ would be a good choice for Wales in 2019 but until then we’ll continue to put faith in the most successful Lions coach EVER Wink.

Right now no one will want to switch so close to the next RWC.

Gatland has done well with the Lions but disenfranchised some players and according to some of his own players underperformed. His goal has been the ABs for some time so I'd assume he'd take the choice out of the WRUs hands and head to NZ with a Super team and look to get the big job soon after.

Lancaster made a catalogue of errors. He moved on from what Johnno did. Johnno started the evolution of the team but ran out of time and Lancaster moved that forward moderately well. His inability to bring a structure to the game that worked and his inability to manage his coaches meant that really he was given the job to early in his coaching career.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by eirebilly on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 10:49 am

geoff999rugby wrote:I'll give you a hint none of the other 6N teams would make the swap.
Neither Australia or NZ would be interested

SA I honestly don't know how Coetzee is viewed.
Doesn't leave much does it

Its all down to personal opinions though isn't it. If you asked me, I personally would have Eddie Jones leading Ireland over Schmidt. Schmidt is a very good coach but relies too heavily on his favourites. Under Schmidt, Ireland have had some great performances but lack consistency. Consistency and non biased selections is something that I believe Jones would bring to Ireland.
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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 11:01 am

But the question put is not is he a better coach which can reasonably be debated but
would other countries swap

The answer now for virtually all, if not all, is a resounding NO (that definitely includes Ireland)

I also think that Jones needs a big team to manage the way he does
I realise Japan don't fit that mold but his background makes that an exception.

I am far from convinced he would make a success of Ireland, Wales, Scotland or Italy

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by eirebilly on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 11:08 am

I do not think any union would want to swap coaches right now, agree on that but Eddie Jones is one of the best around so if he became free there would be many unions interested.
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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Rugby Fan on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 11:26 am

Gwlad wrote:
Scottrf wrote:Right now any other international side would take him, and I'm happy.

Wales wouldn't, Australia wouldn't NZ wouldn't. Japan also wouldn't. thumbsup
Japan would have him back in a shot. A great marketing asset for the sport there. He's still featured in campaigns two years on from the last World Cup.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by lostinwales on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 11:54 am

This is turning into one of the most stupid threads ever. There is nothing to argue about

It is perfectly possible that EJ is a much better fit for England than any of the other 6N coaches, and perfectly possible that he would not suit those other teams.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Poorfour on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 12:35 pm

Will Eddie Jones see England through to RWC 2019? Almost certainly

Will England blow up as a result of his coaching techniques? There's no sign of it yet

Would other countries want to swap their current coaches for Eddie if he were available? No. It would be too disruptive to swap coaches at this point in an RWC cycle and it would mean sacking someone who's under contract, which might deter future coaches

Would other countries give serious consideration to Eddie if he were available and they were in need of a coach? Yes. They'd be stupid not to; he is one of the most experienced international coaches around and has an excellent track record.

Is this a silly thread? Yes

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by mid_gen on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 3:58 pm

Don't know, don't care. Eddie Jones has been doing a great job so far.

I'd rather have an eccentric coach and win tournaments than....well, lose tournaments like the other NH teams are doing lately. thumbsup


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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 4:10 pm

If supporters are happy finishing 2nd bottom in the 6N's, so be it. I quite lack back to back wins Wink

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 4:12 pm

That is comparing apples and oranges.
Because Jones is getting better results than O'Shea doesn't mean he is doing a better job - he has a lot more to work with.

Agree a silly thread - which has come about from a silly question

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by mid_gen on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 4:35 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:That is comparing apples and oranges.
Because Jones is getting better results than O'Shea doesn't mean he is doing a better job - he has a lot more to work with. 

Last I checked Gatland had the honour of  coaching the second worst team in the 6N.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 4:46 pm

Cherry picking

My turn
Got a Lions result in NZ - first since 1971
Pretty good for the CV

This daft thread has moved on from 'everyone would take Jones' to 'Jones is better than your coach'

equally pointless

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Gwlad on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 4:51 pm

Jones is an arrogant outsider who was parachuted into England after an humiliating RWC and exploited the good foundation laid by Bomber in a post RWC lull while the other home nations re built; he has only achieved anything of note while HC of the world's biggest and best resourced Union in terms of the over abundance of players and wedge. My guess is his hubris will catch up with him and NZ will win the next RWC leaving him out in the cold, again after the longest and latest fruitless, short tenures in International rugby.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by mid_gen on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 4:57 pm

Thread is indeed daft, might as well get some silliness before we get into the 6N and certain Welsh posters start invading every England related thread with their English Arrogance zzzzzz

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by lostinwales on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 5:11 pm

Gwlad wrote:Jones is an arrogant outsider who was parachuted into England after an humiliating RWC and exploited the good foundation laid by Bomber in a post RWC lull while the other home nations re built; he has only achieved anything of note while HC of the world's biggest and best resourced Union in terms of the over of players and wedge. My guess is his hubris will catch up with him and NZ will win the next RWC leaving him out in the cold, again after the longest and latest fruitless, short tenures in International rugby.

Trumpian logic. He had achieved one or two things before taking over at England.

Yes he has fallen on his feet with us, and he is reaping the rewards of an academy system that is generating a steady stream of good and occasionally brilliant prospects. He has been lucky with injuries (until now) too. But he is providing smart ideas and making the most of what he has.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 6:20 pm

Scottrf wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I can't think of any teams that are unhappy with their coaching set up enough to want EJ right now, typical English arrogance to assume that. EJ came into the England set up at a time when most premiership clubs were performing at a very high standard so it's no surprise they've done well. EJ's impact has been little, he just made a few tweaks and it's worked. I imagine the winning streak will end at some point. The moment England actually lose two games on the bounce is probably when it will go downhill, but I can't really see that happening any time soon.

Seen plenty of Irish fans unhappy that they are so inconsistent and that they can only win through motivated physical performances. And plenty Wales fans unhappy with Gatland's tactics.

Seriously though every time an England player was discussed for Lions selection other nations fans were calling them average, so I'm struggling to see how we ever win.

It would take some fool to think EJ can walk out of his England job and into either of those jobs and make everything perfect.

Not sure I remember that? It was just Welsh players getting bitched about. Most were happy at the amount of Saracens in the squad.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by mikey_dragon on Sat 04 Nov 2017, 6:23 pm

Gwlad wrote:I think English arrogance and Eddie jones go together like fine bedfellows.

Yep and there’s an abundance of it on this thread which is unsurprising.

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by Scottrf on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 10:01 am

Without English arrogance what would you two talk about?

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 2:39 pm

Scottrf wrote:Without English arrogance what would you two talk about?

How it's the fault of the AP that Wales can't win the 6N?

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Re: Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 05 Nov 2017, 5:23 pm

Scottrf wrote:Without English arrogance what would you two talk about?

I'm here to talk about rugby, mostly involving the teams I support. It's no surprise to see more arrogant responses when the English are called out for being arrogant, especially you (the court jester) who couldn't back up his foolish statement.

mikey_dragon

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