Brexit

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Brexit

Post by navyblueshorts on Wed 18 Oct 2017, 8:51 pm

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Galted wrote:It will stop foreigners praying in our mosques.
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Re: Brexit

Post by lostinwales on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 12:09 pm

I suspect the 'what happens in the event of a no deal' leaflets the gov are going to send out may help to focus minds somewhat, unless they are just full of pictures of unicorns and rainbows.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 12:45 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You will see a trend when Prices....Unemployment...Homelessness go up and Companies start leaving.

Brexit is....was..and always will be a bad idea..

Still waiting for unemployment to go up. What was it Osborne said: 500,000 jobs would be lost after a *vote* to Leave the EU.

Unemployment currently at its lowest since 1975.

Homelessness will go *down* after Brexit. A carefully planned migration system will ensure the government can plan ahead for housing and infrastructure, plus the UK Shared Prosperity Fund can be better targeted at the causes of homelessness than the current EU funding.

Brexit will always be a superb idea, the European Union less so.

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Re: Brexit

Post by lostinwales on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 12:51 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:You will see a trend when Prices....Unemployment...Homelessness go up and Companies start leaving.

Brexit is....was..and always will be a bad idea..

Still waiting for unemployment to go up.  What was it Osborne said: 500,000 jobs would be lost after a *vote* to Leave the EU.

Unemployment currently at its lowest since 1975.

Homelessness will go *down* after Brexit. A carefully planned migration system will ensure the government can plan ahead for housing and infrastructure, plus the UK Shared Prosperity Fund can be better targeted at the causes of homelessness than the current EU funding.

Brexit will always be a superb idea, the European Union less so.

'Government'....'Carefully planned'...

Hmm

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Re: Brexit

Post by TRUSSMAN66 on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 2:48 pm

Homelessness three times higher than under Labour.

In work Poverty the highest it has ever been since records began..

Free School meals disappearing..

Train fares rising for the 2nd time this year.

Zero hour contracts at their highest level..

Public Sector workers using Foodbanks..

Nurse/Doctor shortage.

Operations cancelled

A/E waiting times targets worst ever..

Evictions at record levels..

I could go on but it is so depressing I will leave it here.




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Re: Brexit

Post by Luke on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 2:49 pm

I'd be careful about using unemployment figures as a barometer.
We all know that the figure quoted and the actually figure is a lie. And that if you add all the people who get benefits then the figure is a hell of a lot higher.
Plus the amount of people on 0 hour contracts (around were I live there are a he'll of a lot of jobs that only offer these), has fudged any true idea.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 2:53 pm

Luke wrote:I'd be careful about using unemployment figures as a barometer.
We all know that the figure quoted and the actually figure is a lie. And that if you add all the people who get benefits then the figure is a hell of a lot higher.
Plus the amount of people on 0 hour contracts (around were I live there are a he'll of a lot of jobs that only offer these), has fudged any true idea.

Perhaps, but we can certainly agree that 500,000 jobs have not been lost.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 2:53 pm

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Homelessness three times higher than under Labour.

In work Poverty the highest it has ever been since records began..

Free School meals disappearing..

Train fares rising for the 2nd time this year.

Zero hour contracts at their highest level..

Public Sector workers using Foodbanks..

Nurse/Doctor shortage.

Operations cancelled

A/E waiting times targets worst ever..

Evictions at record levels..

I could go on but it is so depressing I will leave it here.




Absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Luke on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 3:12 pm

Duty281 wrote:
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Homelessness three times higher than under Labour.

In work Poverty the highest it has ever been since records began..

Free School meals disappearing..

Train fares rising for the 2nd time this year.

Zero hour contracts at their highest level..

Public Sector workers using Foodbanks..

Nurse/Doctor shortage.

Operations cancelled

A/E waiting times targets worst ever..

Evictions at record levels..

I could go on but it is so depressing I will leave it here.




Absolutely nothing to do with Brexit.

Agree with Duty here. A lot of this is more down to austerity and the Tories handling of it then Brexit. That's why Corbyn nearly won the last ge, because he offered a hope and away out of it. Whether it will get worse after Brexit, only time will tell.
And yes she I'm not sure 500,000 jobs have been lost. But you would agree the amount companies that are shutting down has gone past worrying.
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Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 3:16 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:I'd be careful about using unemployment figures as a barometer.
We all know that the figure quoted and the actually figure is a lie. And that if you add all the people who get benefits then the figure is a hell of a lot higher.
Plus the amount of people on 0 hour contracts (around were I live there are a he'll of a lot of jobs that only offer these), has fudged any true idea.

Perhaps, but we can certainly agree that 500,000 jobs have not been lost.

Probably because brexit hasnt happened yet?

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Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 3:27 pm

Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:I'd be careful about using unemployment figures as a barometer.
We all know that the figure quoted and the actually figure is a lie. And that if you add all the people who get benefits then the figure is a hell of a lot higher.
Plus the amount of people on 0 hour contracts (around were I live there are a he'll of a lot of jobs that only offer these), has fudged any true idea.

Perhaps, but we can certainly agree that 500,000 jobs have not been lost.

Probably because brexit hasnt happened yet?

As I referenced and emphasised, the claim from Osborne was specifically referring to the *vote* to Leave and how it would result in 500,000 lost jobs. Full quote:

"a vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession and lead to an increase in unemployment of around 500,000..."

We've voted to Leave over two years ago. Both of those things have not happened.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 3:36 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:I'd be careful about using unemployment figures as a barometer.
We all know that the figure quoted and the actually figure is a lie. And that if you add all the people who get benefits then the figure is a hell of a lot higher.
Plus the amount of people on 0 hour contracts (around were I live there are a he'll of a lot of jobs that only offer these), has fudged any true idea.

Perhaps, but we can certainly agree that 500,000 jobs have not been lost.

Probably because brexit hasnt happened yet?

As I referenced and emphasised, the claim from Osborne was specifically referring to the *vote* to Leave and how it would result in 500,000 lost jobs. Full quote:

"a vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession and lead to an increase in unemployment of around 500,000..."

We've voted to Leave over two years ago. Both of those things have not happened.

Well, the pound has fallen in value, by 12% vs the Euro and 5% vs the US dollar. Thats undeniable. Its not armageddon (yet) like Osbourne predicted but theres definitely been a negative impact already.

Oh, and while we're here...

Duty281 wrote:

Homelessness will go *down* after Brexit. A carefully planned migration system will ensure the government can plan ahead for housing and infrastructure, plus the UK Shared Prosperity Fund can be better targeted at the causes of homelessness than the current EU funding.


You are aware we can implement this already? While still a member of the EU, right? Even Farage has been forced to admit that leaving the EU wont affect our ability to control migration.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 3:48 pm

Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:I'd be careful about using unemployment figures as a barometer.
We all know that the figure quoted and the actually figure is a lie. And that if you add all the people who get benefits then the figure is a hell of a lot higher.
Plus the amount of people on 0 hour contracts (around were I live there are a he'll of a lot of jobs that only offer these), has fudged any true idea.

Perhaps, but we can certainly agree that 500,000 jobs have not been lost.

Probably because brexit hasnt happened yet?

As I referenced and emphasised, the claim from Osborne was specifically referring to the *vote* to Leave and how it would result in 500,000 lost jobs. Full quote:

"a vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession and lead to an increase in unemployment of around 500,000..."

We've voted to Leave over two years ago. Both of those things have not happened.

Well, the pound has fallen in value, by 12% vs the Euro and 5% vs the US dollar.  Thats undeniable.  Its not armageddon (yet) like Osbourne predicted but theres definitely been a negative impact already.

Oh, and while we're here...

Duty281 wrote:

Homelessness will go *down* after Brexit. A carefully planned migration system will ensure the government can plan ahead for housing and infrastructure, plus the UK Shared Prosperity Fund can be better targeted at the causes of homelessness than the current EU funding.


You are aware we can implement this already?  While still a member of the EU, right?  Even Farage has been forced to admit that leaving the EU wont affect our ability to control migration.  

1) Irrelevant to what the original point is.

2) We already control immigration outside the EU, but not inside the EU. Farage has admitted no such thing.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 4:09 pm



1:35 when the penny drops. "In theory you're right. In theory there are - under European treaties - there are restrictions that can be put in place"

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Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 4:41 pm

Ah, yes I thought it'd be that which you were referring to. The misleading video from Femi who badly misquotes and totally mangles article 7 of the citizens rights directive!*

0:49 - "In order to come here" - wrong. What Femi is quoting from is in reference to EU migrants who *stay* for longer than three months.

1:00 - If you do not fulfil those criteria (not becoming a burden and having medical insurance), you can still stay under numerous other conditions listed (link below), which Femi (cleverly enough) doesn't expand upon in order to dupe his audience (the picture is also cropped).

http://www.eearegulations.co.uk/CitizensRightsDirective/ByPage/Article_07

Farage may have made a concession there (an incorrect one if he did so), he may not have done (I would need to see the full, unedited video).

Either way, you cannot control migration from within the EU whilst being a member of the EU.

*Not that he's ignorant about this, just clever.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Tue 21 Aug 2018, 5:15 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Either way, you cannot control migration from within the EU whilst being a member of the EU.

Did you even read Article 7 which describes all the ways that someone can lose right of residence and the massive list of things they need to fulfil in order to be allowed to stay? In what way is that not controlling migration?

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Re: Brexit

Post by lostinwales on Wed 22 Aug 2018, 11:15 am

I know people who have lost their jobs because of Brexit - as in Brexit was explicitly mentioned in the statement from the company who closed down the division that employed them.

It is a common fallacy to assume because something hasn't happened instantly that it can be ignored. We haven't left yet but investment into the UK has flatlined. We won't lose those jobs overnight but we will over the months and years that follow.

There are a lot of major employers who are catching a cold over Brexit, like car manufacturers (particularly the Japanese owned ones) Airbus, the city moving jobs abroad etc. I don't see a list of companies ready to leap in to provide alternatives (and it won't affect arch brexiteer Dyson because he has already shifted his manufacturing to Malaysia).

Now you may choose to discount the opinions of people who run these businesses, but looking after them is actually their job.


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Re: Brexit

Post by superflyweight on Wed 22 Aug 2018, 11:58 am

Duty281 wrote:
Samo wrote:
Duty281 wrote:
Luke wrote:I'd be careful about using unemployment figures as a barometer.
We all know that the figure quoted and the actually figure is a lie. And that if you add all the people who get benefits then the figure is a hell of a lot higher.
Plus the amount of people on 0 hour contracts (around were I live there are a he'll of a lot of jobs that only offer these), has fudged any true idea.

Perhaps, but we can certainly agree that 500,000 jobs have not been lost.

Probably because brexit hasnt happened yet?

As I referenced and emphasised, the claim from Osborne was specifically referring to the *vote* to Leave and how it would result in 500,000 lost jobs. Full quote:

"a vote to leave would represent an immediate and profound shock to our economy. That shock would push our economy into a recession and lead to an increase in unemployment of around 500,000..."

We've voted to Leave over two years ago. Both of those things have not happened.

It's bloody lucky for him that he didn't do something really daft and stick his claims on the side of a bus. That would have been really embarrassing.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Sun 26 Aug 2018, 11:35 am

JRM’s latest solution to the Irish border: people who cross will be subject to ‘inspections, just like during the Troubles’. He also claimed its a border that doesnt have to be crossed everyday.

The guy is so far out of touch with reality its incredible. But the plebs keep doffing their caps and tugging their furlocks. This man is poison incarnate and it scares me that people sincerely believe he should be PM.

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Re: Brexit

Post by JuliusHMarx on Thu 30 Aug 2018, 12:10 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45351288

Obviously Panasonic aren't really moving their HQ - it's all just scare-mongering as part of Project Fear.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Samo on Thu 30 Aug 2018, 2:17 pm

JuliusHMarx wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45351288

Obviously Panasonic aren't really moving their HQ - it's all just scare-mongering as part of Project Fear.

Massive mistake from Panasonic here. Dont they realise they're going to miss out on selling their 55" OLED curved TV's to lucrative markets in Africa such as Burundi, Somalia and the Central African Republic?

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Re: Brexit

Post by SecretFly on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 10:40 am

Samo wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45351288

Obviously Panasonic aren't really moving their HQ - it's all just scare-mongering as part of Project Fear.

Massive mistake from Panasonic here.  Dont they realise they're going to miss out on selling their 55" OLED curved TV's to lucrative markets in Africa such as Burundi, Somalia and the Central African Republic?

A lot of Chinese in Africa these days with loadsa money.. they like their luxuries, don't they? Developing markets is always the best markets.... rather than the saturated markets. The EU is a saturated market... hell even the 'NEWS' is over-supplied to a news-fatigued populace. "That was the 9o'clock news and now the 9.30 News"

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Re: Brexit

Post by Hero on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:10 am

China are pumping huge amounts of cash into Africa at the moment especially in regards to the building of dams in Ethiopia & Sudan much to the annoyance of Egypt.

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Re: Brexit

Post by SecretFly on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 11:41 am

The NEW Territory Amassing Imperialistic Age, Hero. That's why the world seems in flux.... let's not talk about it openly but everyone knows the codes - lots of nice 'let's work together' lingo covering up the naked truth - greedy resource grabbing by competing empires (China/USA/Europe/Russia).

We always ask ourselves in the history books: "The lessons to be learned from the past?" Well, we know the lessons but nobody cares about truly learning from them because to do so would be to deny our very impulse as humans - evolutionary greed.

The EU and America watches China and Russia like a hawks and vice versa. All nice 'lets trade together' but all the while the tension growing and growing - just as it did in the years before virtually all major wars through history. 'Alliances', 'common goals', 'Pacts', 'let's make the world a better place by cooperating', colonisation under the guise of migration....and then All Out War.

Is that what's in store for our 'developed' world? Well if people don't think it is then I'd like to know why they feel this century is so special that it will so naturally avoid the inevitable results of 'colonising' tension.


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Re: Brexit

Post by lostinwales on Fri 31 Aug 2018, 12:29 pm

SecretFly wrote:
Samo wrote:
JuliusHMarx wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45351288

Obviously Panasonic aren't really moving their HQ - it's all just scare-mongering as part of Project Fear.

Massive mistake from Panasonic here.  Dont they realise they're going to miss out on selling their 55" OLED curved TV's to lucrative markets in Africa such as Burundi, Somalia and the Central African Republic?

A lot of Chinese in Africa these days with loadsa money..  they like their luxuries, don't they?  Developing markets is always the best markets.... rather than the saturated markets.  The EU is a saturated market... hell even the 'NEWS' is over-supplied to a news-fatigued populace.  "That was the 9o'clock news and now the 9.30 News"

Well yes the EU is a saturated market, and those lovely Brexit guys used to push the line about growth in new markets, but quite frankly selling 2 carrots instead of one represents a growth of 100%, but it is still only 2 carrots.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 11:39 am

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/electoral-commission-misinterpreted-law-vote-leave-high-court

The High Court finds what most people involved in politics already know: that the Electoral Commission is a total mess and unfit for purpose.

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Re: Brexit

Post by lostinwales on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 1:06 pm

Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/electoral-commission-misinterpreted-law-vote-leave-high-court

The High Court finds what most people involved in politics already know: that the Electoral Commission is a total mess and unfit for purpose.

Yep. Still pretty clear that Vote Leave misbehaved though

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Re: Brexit

Post by SecretFly on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 1:38 pm

Oh Dear.... in a bit of a convoluted incident an advisory body sanctioned by Parliament gives a Pro-Brexit group bad advice on financing a campaign.

Was there more to it than a mistake and a misunderstanding of law?  Was there a set up planned to discredit the Pro-Brexit movement at the time?

Hmmmm.... still more investigations needed into Brexit skulduggery?

Funny though..in a real funny way not a metaphorical funny way... that all participants say that right is on their side.

Court - "Electoral Commission got it wrong"
Electoral Commission - "You see?  The courts agree with us.  We got it wrong and sorted it out by fining Vote Leave."
Vote Leave - "You see?  They're all potentially corrupt - either the courts or the Electoral Commission.  We've been vindicated and want our money back."

Laugh The Law...you can always be right if you interpret the legal claptrap language to suit the philosophy of your followers.

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Re: Brexit

Post by Duty281 on Fri 14 Sep 2018, 4:27 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/electoral-commission-misinterpreted-law-vote-leave-high-court

The High Court finds what most people involved in politics already know: that the Electoral Commission is a total mess and unfit for purpose.

Yep. Still pretty clear that Vote Leave misbehaved though

Both official campaigns 'misbehaved'.

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Re: Brexit

Post by lostinwales on Sat 15 Sep 2018, 6:12 pm

Duty281 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
Duty281 wrote:https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/14/electoral-commission-misinterpreted-law-vote-leave-high-court

The High Court finds what most people involved in politics already know: that the Electoral Commission is a total mess and unfit for purpose.

Yep. Still pretty clear that Vote Leave misbehaved though

Both official campaigns 'misbehaved'.
In different ways and one significantly more than the other. The issue which lead  the current ruling is that the advice apparently given to Vote Leave was different than to the remain groups, which meant that Vote Leave were happy to spend more through what they thought was a loophole.

Anyway, two wrongs don't make a right. I can't deny there is a significant eurosceptic part of this country but the vote itself was a farce

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Re: Brexit

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