England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

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England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by hugehandoff on Mon 13 Nov 2017, 12:41 pm

First topic message reminder :

A resurgent Wallabies arrive in town with a great opportunity to halt their run of defeats to England. They are in much better current form and are looking sharp. EJs is trying to test out a few new players and rotate his Lions with a long term RWC view. He has said he will take the odd defeat along the way if it helps develop the side longer term. I think this Sat could be one of those defeats.

I do agree with seeing how some different players cope and do not disagree with his approach. Therefore, we need to see Williams, George, Watson (at 15) all start. If Teo was fit I would also go Farrell at 10 and Teo at 12 with Slade at 13 (deserves 1 more go despite being poor on Sat).  

Once these AIs are over then I think the time for experimenting is done and we then play each match as if it is our last. This will enable the combinations to bed in and be battle hardened for RWC 2019.

Team: Watson, May, Joseph, Farrell, Daly; Ford, Youngs; M Vunipola, Hartley, Cole; Launchbury, Lawes; Robshaw, Underhill, Hughes.

Replacements: George, Marler, Williams, Itoje, Simmonds, Care, Slade, Rokoduguni.



Australia: 15 Kurtley Beale, 14 Marika Koroibete, 13 Tevita Kuridrani, 12 Samu Kerevi, 11 Reece Hodge, 10 Bernard Foley, 9 Will Genia; 1 Scott Sio, 2 Tatafu Polota-Nau, 3 Sekope Kepu, 4 Rob Simmons, 5 Adam Coleman, 6 Ned Hanigan, 7 Michael Hooper, 8 Sean McMahon
Replacements: 16 Stephen Moore, 17 Tom Robertson, 18 Allan Alaalatoa, 19 Matt Philip, 20 Ben McCalman, 21 Lopeti Timani, 22 Nick Phipps, 23 Kurtley Beale, 24 Henry Speight*

*one to be omitted


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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by LionsV2 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:15 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes voted fans motm.

Lawes and Launchbury continue to show a certain someone up.

Nothing beats hammering the Aussies, fantastic final 10 minutes.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by Pal Joey on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:15 pm

mid_gen wrote:
greenandpleasantland wrote:Farrell just gave his medal to a fan...well done sir

Saw that, good lad.

The lad should then give it to Farell's dad... who then gives it back to Owen. Who then has the option to give it back to the young lad, Smile

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by Pal Joey on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:17 pm

LionsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes voted fans motm.

Lawes and Launchbury continue to show a certain someone up.

Nothing beats hammering the Aussies, fantastic final 10 minutes.

Horrible getting hammered 5-0, isn't it?

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by mid_gen on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:18 pm

Our second row and back row is becoming a really formidable unit...Robshaw is an essential part of it still, doing the dirty work, running off the ball to clean up. Lawes, Launchbury, Hughes, Itoje are just getting better.

Now we just need to develop some Dane Coles...

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:19 pm

greenandpleasantland wrote:Hooper...a gentleman in his interview

Yes, I'm not a big fan of the guy at all but he took that one on the chin and came across very well. Respect to him for that.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by LionsV2 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:20 pm

The Loaded Dog wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes voted fans motm.

Lawes and Launchbury continue to show a certain someone up.

Nothing beats hammering the Aussies, fantastic final 10 minutes.

Horrible getting hammered 5-0, isn't it?

8-15.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:21 pm

[quote="mid_gen"]Our second row and back row is becoming a really formidable unit...Robshaw is an essential part of it still, doing the dirty work, running off the ball to clean up. Lawes, Launchbury, Hughes, Itoje are just getting better.

Now we just need to develop some Dane Coles...[/]

Yes where is LCD and Taylor?

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:22 pm

LionsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes voted fans motm.

Lawes and Launchbury continue to show a certain someone up.

Nothing beats hammering the Aussies, fantastic final 10 minutes.

No they're not...Itoje was hugely impressive today aswell. Had a huge influence when he came on.

We're so lucky to have about 5 locks who are all verging on world class. Some are already.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by LionsV2 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:24 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes voted fans motm.

Lawes and Launchbury continue to show a certain someone up.

Nothing beats hammering the Aussies, fantastic final 10 minutes.

No they're not...Itoje was hugely impressive today aswell. Had a huge influence when he came on.  

We're so lucky to have about 5 locks who are all verging on world class. Some are already.

I wasn't talking about Itoje.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by nathan on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:24 pm

I do wonder if the Aussie coaches are harming there team with the pre match media stuff, do the players get too fired up and lose their composure?

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:28 pm

LionsV2 wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes voted fans motm.

Lawes and Launchbury continue to show a certain someone up.

Nothing beats hammering the Aussies, fantastic final 10 minutes.

No they're not...Itoje was hugely impressive today aswell. Had a huge influence when he came on.  

We're so lucky to have about 5 locks who are all verging on world class. Some are already.

I wasn't talking about Itoje.

Ah sorry I'm with ya.

All three of them were quality.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by Pal Joey on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:29 pm

LionsV2 wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes voted fans motm.

Lawes and Launchbury continue to show a certain someone up.

Nothing beats hammering the Aussies, fantastic final 10 minutes.

Horrible getting hammered 5-0, isn't it?

8-15.

24-25 overall now isn't it, 16-11 in England?


Last edited by The Loaded Dog on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 5:30 pm

nathan wrote:I do wonder if the Aussie coaches are harming there team with the pre match media  stuff, do the players get too fired up and lose their composure?

They are so threatening and yet fail to deliver too often. They could have had us a few tries down if they had converted

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by Duty281 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:09 pm

BBC not too happy with England's victory:

"England hammer luckless Australia.

England made it five wins on the bounce over a resurgent Australia as a late trio of exhilarating tries saw them battle to a controversial victory.

The Wallabies lost their captain Michael Hooper and full-back Kurtley Beale to first-half yellow cards and had two tries of their own disallowed as a series of marginal calls went against them."

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:12 pm

Yeah can't agree with with that.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by milkyboy on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:46 pm

Dunno, a fair assessment really. I actually thought the key calls were correct, I would i’m English, but other refs might have called them differently. All happened when the game was in the balance. Then you get done chasing the game in conditions not suited for it.

It was tough on the Aussies, but then I doubt they’d show much sympathy if the positions were reversed!

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by Heaf on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 6:55 pm

I didn't think it was a controversial win at all ... then again the BBC aren't known for their great rugby reporting ...

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by Galted on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 7:16 pm

The Loaded Dog wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes voted fans motm.

Lawes and Launchbury continue to show a certain someone up.

Nothing beats hammering the Aussies, fantastic final 10 minutes.

Horrible getting hammered 5-0, isn't it?

Laugh
avatar
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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by LionsV2 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 7:34 pm

Galted wrote:
The Loaded Dog wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Lawes voted fans motm.

Lawes and Launchbury continue to show a certain someone up.

Nothing beats hammering the Aussies, fantastic final 10 minutes.

Horrible getting hammered 5-0, isn't it?

Laugh

This level of banter just blows my mind.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 7:45 pm

Just watching the highlights....

I think I'm moving from a big fan of Johnny May to an ...on fence not sure.

The other question is how do you fit Launchbury, Itoje, Lawes and Robshaw..in to 3 positions. And that's not including Kruis / Underhill / Curry.
We really do have some strong options.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by lostinwales on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:02 pm

Watching highlights too. That Daly try was correct but ridiculously lucky.

You have to make the most of the breaks that come and I can see that we did.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:06 pm

Over the game may was a country mile better than Daly.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:12 pm

But are May and Daly good wingers. I said earlier on the thread I don't rate Daly as a winger.

I'm not sure Mays pace counters the trouble he often puts us in.


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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by TJ on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:14 pm

TJ wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:If England play their best we'll win extremely comfortably.

I am going to save this for posterity :-)  What would you define as  "extremely comfortably"  don't worry - I'll come back to take my verbal kicking if you are right

Oh dear - where is my hat to eat? I didn't see the game and it sounds like every bounce of the ball and 50 / 50 call went Englands way but I'll take my kicking oh yeah

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:15 pm

Well. You were right in a way that England didn't play to their potential.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:17 pm

For me may had 1 or 2 iffy spots gf bit he was excellent. Probably 3rd in a race for motm.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by mid_gen on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:17 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Just watching the highlights....

I think I'm moving from a big fan of Johnny May to an ...on fence not sure.

The other question is how do you fit Launchbury, Itoje, Lawes and Robshaw..in to 3 positions. And that's not including Kruis / Underhill / Curry.
We really do have some strong options.

You don't need to fit them into the 3 positions though..one of the main reasons we are winning is that our bench is so strong. Look at Youngs and Care....either could start and we wouldn't lose anything, arguably we're stronger because we have two top players pushing each other.


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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:17 pm

TJ wrote:
TJ wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:If England play their best we'll win extremely comfortably.

I am going to save this for posterity :-)  What would you define as  "extremely comfortably"  don't worry - I'll come back to take my verbal kicking if you are right

Oh dear - where is my hat to eat?  I didn't see the game and it sounds like every bounce of the ball and 50 / 50 call went Englands way  but I'll take my kicking oh yeah

They did, but even the neutral would say the right calls....

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:19 pm

ANd Cheikas interview shows total sour grapes compared to his captain...

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by cascough on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:20 pm

*DUPLICATE*


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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by cascough on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:20 pm

Heaf wrote:Not saying it was lucky - just makes it look more one-sided than it was ...

Completely disagree. England were excellent value for the scoreline today, similarly Aus discipline poor throughout and their execution poor in key moments.

As for Australia's "tries" today... the first, hooper was a mile offside from the kick through, Koroibete never touched it so the bounce of a ball is never going to magic hooper back onside. Absolute non issue, especially since Robshaw held him up anyway (ref's question meant try was never going to be awarded)

The second, poor running and a clear obstruction from moore. Robshaw has to change his line to avoid Moore as clearly shown on the replay from behind. Clumsy from Australia. Overall Australia struggled today. Deserved nothing.

England on the other hand could afford to effectively waste 2 sin bin periods and still be 7 points ahead on 70+ minutes. That's before you give England the credit (that they deserve) for being ridiculously clinical in the last 10 mins.

On another note, Robshaw was excellent today and I really don't think we have another backrow like him. His defence on the tryline was exceptional, and his performance was summed up by him superbly mopping up a loose ball, making a mistake and offloading to Kurindrani, and then immediately rectifying that with a turnover. The guy just does not quit.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by lostinwales on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:21 pm

Worth saying that Joseph plays really well against Australia.

The Australians like him too. Why else would they drag him across the line so he can score?

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by mid_gen on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:37 pm

cascough wrote:
Heaf wrote:Not saying it was lucky - just makes it look more one-sided than it was ...

Completely disagree. England were excellent value for the scoreline today, similarly Aus discipline poor throughout and their execution poor in key moments.

As for Australia's "tries" today... the first, hooper was a mile offside from the kick through, Koroibete never touched it so the bounce of a ball is never going to magic hooper back onside. Absolute non issue, especially since Robshaw held him up anyway (ref's question meant try was never going to be awarded)

The second, poor running and a clear obstruction from moore. Robshaw has to change his line to avoid Moore as clearly shown on the replay from behind. Clumsy from Australia. Overall Australia struggled today. Deserved nothing.

England on the other hand could afford to effectively waste 2 sin bin periods and still be 7 points ahead on 70+ minutes. That's before you give England the credit (that they deserve) for being ridiculously clinical in the last 10 mins.

On another note, Robshaw was excellent today and I really don't think we have another backrow like him. His defence on the tryline was exceptional, and his performance was summed up by him superbly mopping up a loose ball, making a mistake and offloading to Kurindrani, and then immediately rectifying that with a turnover. The guy just does not quit.

Agree on Robshaw. It's no coincidence he's the guy cleaning up the loose balls and holding up the ball in defence....it's because he's working like a machine to get around the pitch and be in the right places. Obvious game plan, he never gets asked to carry for England....he frees up the rest of the back row to do that and run the support lines.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:57 pm

Robshaw is Eddies first name on the teamsheet...he knows for all the razamataz everyone else gives...Robshaw does the Richard Hill job!

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by yappysnap on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 9:10 pm

Didn’t see the game as I’m in NZ, ended up watching them lose in the league WC instead.

Sounds like a good game from England though. After a stodgy first game we’re gelling more now?

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by lostinwales on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 9:27 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:But are May and Daly good wingers. I said earlier on the thread I don't rate Daly as a winger.

I'm not sure Mays pace counters the trouble he often puts us in.

Oh come on. His pace solves problems too (remember last year vs Argentina when he played both wings at the same time). And as for the Care try... fullish speed flicks the ball up off the turf with his toe takes the ball cleanly then great pass out to Care when he's brought down.

He will make mistakes but there are far too many plusses at the same time. Daly/May/Watson is a very dangerous back 3 and it would be nice to see them develop as a combo. It will be very interesting to see what EJ decides when Brown is fit again

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by cascough on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 9:28 pm

I dunno about gelling more (but then I don't think we played THAT badly last week.), but the performance was better than than last week. I'd still say we are playing within ourselves and were really quite comfortable. Aus looked a bit dangerous at times (not often) but so did we (a bit more often) the difference was we were able to execute. The reason for that, IMO, is that we are better than them. England are in a good place.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by cascough on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 9:30 pm

Lostinwales, May was fantastic last year against Argentina. What a performance. ANY international winger would be proud of the performance he put in that day.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 9:41 pm

I've always backed May without doubt. He does some very good things...I just was a bit questioning today. He put us in a bit of trouble at times.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 9:42 pm

Once i think he did. Was miles better than Daly. Best of the back 3 tbf in filthy conditions.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by lostinwales on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 9:47 pm

cascough wrote:I dunno about gelling more (but then I don't think we played THAT badly last week.), but the performance was better than than last week.  I'd still say we are playing within ourselves and were really quite comfortable. Aus looked a bit dangerous at times (not often) but so did we (a bit more often) the difference was we were able to execute. The reason for that, IMO, is that we are better than them. England are in a good place.

We are very good at taking chances when they come up. (Not always - Itoje with that lovely rumble but complete failure to pass to May comes to mind amongst others). One thing that did seem to be a theme today as it was during that summer tour was that the Australians create some lovely running rugby moments, nice passes keeping the ball moving, switching the point of attack. All that nice visible stuff. And sometimes they score after several minutes. Sometimes, like today, they barely make any headway. England - kick here, flicked up pass there and its a score.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 10:00 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Once i think he did. Was miles better than Daly. Best of the back 3 tbf in filthy conditions.

Ah I'm not convinced with Daly on the wing at all. Waste of a pick . Roko is a way better winger.

May is just am eccentric person and an eccentric winger...


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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by cascough on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 10:05 pm

GeordieFalcon, I applaud your searching for better, but I'm delighted to be in the position of having so much to improve on, yet winning so many games.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by lostinwales on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 10:53 pm

Telling comment on the post match press conference.
Question ' How important ..70 minutes .. Chris Robshaw'
EJ 'Yeah its always Chris

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 11:48 pm

He's not flashy but Eddie won't replace him.


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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by Hood83 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 11:51 pm

Positives are people can finally agree with me Lawes and Launchbury are both better than Kruis :-)

I know he wasn't on for long, so it's a little unfair, but I think people have been too quick to anoint Underhill as successor to Haskell. The latter still carries better, and still rucks better. I think he probably also competes on the deck better. We looked better when Itoje came on. I'd still pick Haskell over Underhill, he's young but he's also pretty one dimensional at this point.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 11:53 pm

cascough wrote:GeordieFalcon, I applaud your searching for better, but I'm delighted to be in the position of having so much to improve on, yet winning so many games.

Ah I know I come across as over expectant at times. May is a cracking winger, he just often doesn't know what he's doing himself let alone the rest of the team. I would still pick him on one of the wings though. Next week I'll be his biggest fan again....

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by Hood83 on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 11:53 pm

Oh and Robshaw is still our best flanker

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 11:56 pm

Hood
Underhill is a powerhouse who should come good, Haskell played his best three games for England in oz that tour. Underhill needs time. He carried twice in this game...twice more than last week.

Personally I think Curry is the man!

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

Post by yappysnap on Sun 19 Nov 2017, 12:12 am

Good to hear people acknowledging how important Robshaw is. Most will still ftorget by the next team selection and want someone flashier, but he is the glue in that backrow and pack.

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Re: England Versus Australia 18th November 2017 3pm k.o.

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