PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

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PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 15 Nov 2017, 6:12 pm

1).Just a few more rounds beside the seaside on Georgia's Golden Isles this week and the pros can take a seven-week break, eight if they're not Tournament Champions, even longer for those who don't fancy various West Coast events. Most will rest, practice, review the year just gone by with their "team" and plan for the year ahead.
Some will be so exhausted from the exertions of the past season that they'll be globe-trotting for recuperative guaranteed appearance and/or prize money at exotic locations around the world.

2).I really enjoy watching the Mayakoba action, the course seems to improve every year and the field ain't bad either. Patton Kizzire has a southerner's good ole boy, laconic air about him, but no-one really put pressure on him last weekend and he was a deserving winner.
Like his in-form southern compadre, Chesson Hadley, Kizzire could use getting a move on though. No anti-American sentiment here, but both have bizarre names and tortoise-like pace of play, more Henrik or Bernhard, Ken or Nick, than Rickie Fowler, for instance, who looked beyond irritated as he was grouped in the final threesome and seemed to have to wait on every shot.

3).A landmark stat from last week as Alex Cejka followed up his play-off defeat in Las Vegas with a T9 in Mexico and so earned consecutive top ten finishes for the first time in 359 career Tour starts. And, so doing, launches himself to the top of the all-important reshuffle ranking.

4).Mildly promising performances at Mayakoba for Knox and McDowell, each playing a course where they've had success before. Knox earned just his second Top Ten finish all year, while McDowell looked much more confident to my untrained eye, despite a T34 result. Both play again this week, where each has played well in the past. Luke Donald also makes an appearance, just down the coast from his happy hunting ground of Hilton Head Island.

5).Congratulations to Shotrock and his fellow members @ Aronimink in Philadelphia on securing the 2020 LPGA Championship and 2027 PGA Championship. Justin Rose has won twice in Philly but imagine he'll be relaxing his way towards Grayson Murray's irrelevant age by 2027. Mixed thoughts about this Aronimink announcement though, good for them in securing more major championships, but you'd imagine it rather shuts out the Philadelphia market from further PGA Tour events.

6).Presumably the 2027 PGA will be contested in May; the story seemed to be that one reason the PGA was moving to May was to bring the Championship to more southern courses - not so far, although it WILL be at Kiawah in 2020.

7).The finale of the Champions Tour season was rather anticlimactic, with the tournament, and Charles Schwab Cup winner being Kevin Sutherland. Somewhat of a curiosity is that this is the first official stroke-play win of Sutherland's career, though he did lose three PGA Tour play-offs. His solitary Tour win was at the WGC-MatchPlay in 2002 - he shot the first 59 on the Champions Tour, in 2014, on course for a 58 but bogeyed his final hole at Enjoie.
Bernhard Langer will merely have to be content with his seven wins, and $3M in prizemoney, bringing his Champions Tour career earnings to $24.6M - somewhat better than my pension plan and he's still going strong at the age of 60.

8).princedrac noted that this week's RSM Classic only offers 30 owgr points to the winner. Sea Island, Georgia, looks one of the most beautiful areas the PGA Tour visits; there'll be birdies galore but no doubt even more stunning TV images of the area's wildlife.
Those who live in the area have a good record on the 2 x courses (Seaside & Plantation) on Sea Island, including Bill Haas, Webb Simpson, Horschel, Kirk and Kisner among the locals who have won or runnered up and imagine we'll see more of the same this week. Snedeker is back from a 4+ month absence, and Kuchar is also in a field that looks stronger than its official rating. Scott Brown and Charlie Howell are others in form and hopefully Brown can break my dreadful recent trot of form in the crucially important one-and-done game I have fun with.

We'll follow web.com and Champions Tour Q-Schools (Peter Baker, Jamie Kingston & M-A Martin competing in first stage), but this ballwasher has pretty much dried up for the year.
Happy Thanksgiving for next week for all those celebrating in Missouri, Houston, Philadelphia, Cape Cod, Pennsylvania, etc, etc. Stuff the turkey.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 2:57 pm

Branden Grace and Patton Kizzire were last week's big winners in the race to the 2018 Masters. No projections yet from princedrac, but these are the golfers on the outside looking in, for owgr year-end Top 50 invitation from the Hooties:

The Top 46 are all securely ticketed to Augusta, one way or the other, with Brandt Snedeker, #47, with most to win, or lose, as he returns from injury to the RSM today.
Probably about even money that Sneds stays inside the Top 50 even if he makes no points this week. Others outside fighting for an invite include:

#51: Bill Haas: Playing RSM
#53: Kodaira: 49th after Round 1 in Japan
#54: Poulter: 21st after Dubai, Round 1 - must do better!
#57: Uihlein: 32nd in Dubai - must do much better.
#58: Li Haotong: 40th in Dubai.
#59: Charlie Howell: Playing RSM
#60: Westwood: 54th in Dubai.
#61: Lahiri: Not playing
#62: Tanihara: 46th in Dubai.
#64: Grillo: Not playing
#66: Knox: Playing RSM



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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Thu 16 Nov 2017, 4:50 pm

Luke Donald pulled out of the RSM, not sure why.

Lukey needed a good autumn to get his season going, but it's been anything but. Very disappointing.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 12:07 am

Thanks Kwin --- a lot of work went into getting the events.

Philadelphia has many excellent courses, but most are on some pretty tight lots of land and not very crowd friendly.

Aronimink is blessed primarily due to the fact that land was purchased for 27 holes however economics at the time dictated they only build the original 18 Donald Ross laid out. (He did lay out another 9 but that was never constructed.)

Not sure getting these two events lock out the area from additional PGA activity, but who knows.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 1:02 am

Tks Sr,

Curious and curiouser w/Luke Donald. He was reportedly hospitalised w/chest pains last night.
All seems OK, but that's not exactly what an athlete (sorry super) wants to have happen.

It'll be interesting to see which event he pitches his tent at to start 2018 - family holiday at Waialae sounds ideal.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 8:01 am

Shane Lowry must be bricking it. If a guy in decent shape like Donald can have troubles, what hope for a fat knacker like Lowry?

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 12:08 pm

W/d for Kodaira in Japan, and two lousy rounds for Tanihara & Westwood in Dubai - won't help Masters aspirations for any of 'em. And slow starts for Haas & Howell at the RSM.

Not bad for Poults & Uihlein though. And continued signs of life from Russell Knox.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 4:18 pm

So Gonzo got his Euro Card back at Euro Q-school

He finished in the Top 20 of the EuroT Order of Merit 4 out of 5 times from 2009-2013.

He starts playing the PGATour in 2014 and finishes 117th in the FEX. Barely keeping his card.

Finishes 165th in the FEX in 2015, loses his card

Gets his card back in the 2016 WTF and then proceeds to finish 188th in the FEX this year.


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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 7:37 pm

So you’re saying he should stay in Europe?

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Fri 17 Nov 2017, 7:49 pm

GPB wrote:So Gonzo got his Euro Card back at Euro Q-school

He finished in the Top 20 of the EuroT Order of Merit 4 out of 5 times from 2009-2013.

He starts playing the PGATour in 2014 and finishes 117th in the FEX.  Barely keeping his card.

Finishes 165th in the FEX in 2015, loses his card

Gets his card back in the 2016 WTF and then proceeds to finish 188th in the FEX this year.


You could say the same for a ton of journeymen.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 12:20 am

super_realist wrote:
GPB wrote:So Gonzo got his Euro Card back at Euro Q-school

He finished in the Top 20 of the EuroT Order of Merit 4 out of 5 times from 2009-2013.

He starts playing the PGATour in 2014 and finishes 117th in the FEX.  Barely keeping his card.

Finishes 165th in the FEX in 2015, loses his card

Gets his card back in the 2016 WTF and then proceeds to finish 188th in the FEX this year.


You could say the same for a ton of journeymen.

Seems to be a trend for a lot of European Tour players. Do reasonably well on the EuroTour. Have a purple in some WGCs and get a PGATour Card.

Joins the PGATour and can't keep a card.

Colsaerts, Oleson, Gonzo, Kjeldson to name a few.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 8:50 am

How many Americans also get a PGA Tour card and struggle to keep it?

Everyone knows the European Tour isn't of the same quality. You're teaching us to suck eggs.

However, when you look at the rankings, it's not all that lopsided. There's actually more Europeans in the top 20 than there are Americans, so what does that tell you?

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 1:19 pm

It tells me that you are cherry picking.

How many Euros in the Top 3? compared to Americans
How many Euros in the Top 50? compared to Americans

See, I can Cherry Pick information too!

It is verification of the Datagolf analysis from February that Kwini dismissed. The analysis showed that every players that have played 40+ rounds in non-co-sanctioned events averaged better against the field against the field in Euro events than PGATour events. (from 2011-2016).

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by RVC on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 2:38 pm

Kwini - thanks for another season of Ballwasher Notes - always enjoyable reading! Happy Thanksgiving.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 2:59 pm

GPB wrote:It tells me that you are cherry picking.

How many Euros in the Top 3?  compared to Americans
How many Euros in the Top 50?  compared to Americans

See, I can Cherry Pick information too!

It is verification of  the Datagolf analysis from February that Kwini dismissed.  The analysis showed that every players that have played 40+ rounds in non-co-sanctioned events averaged better against the field against the field in Euro events than PGATour events.  (from 2011-2016).  

Yes, we all know the standard of the European Tour no longer matches the PGA. It's hardly a newsflash is it? Even though plenty people have come over like the ones you mentioned and failed, you'll also have plenty of American players who have also gained their card and similarly stunk the place out. I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make, other than that we all know the European Tour is not what it once was (Ever such a long time ago)

Did anyone ever expect Gonzo, Kjeldsen, Colsaerts etc to be world beaters on the PGA? No, so why the surprise when they struggle when they get there? Do you have the same disdain for other ordinary Americans who have struggled to keep their cards?

It's very obvious that only a small amount of players (on any tour) will comfortably keep their cards, the rest will struggle, it's set up precisely to do that.  Of course it's easier for players of a lower standard to get better results in a poorer tour. As you Americans would say "duh" or "reallllllllllyy"

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Sat 18 Nov 2017, 10:03 pm

Was Gonzo double dipping?


What sort of confuses me about the debate on here around the players who try to compete on the ET and the PGAT is the assumption it is about trashing the European players. When in reality double dipping wouldn't work the other way around either.

All that is really being said is that trying to compete in two extremely high level sporting seasons isn't very easy. How is that controversial?
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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Sun 19 Nov 2017, 10:59 pm

GPB wrote:
super_realist wrote:
GPB wrote:So Gonzo got his Euro Card back at Euro Q-school

He finished in the Top 20 of the EuroT Order of Merit 4 out of 5 times from 2009-2013.

He starts playing the PGATour in 2014 and finishes 117th in the FEX.  Barely keeping his card.

Finishes 165th in the FEX in 2015, loses his card

Gets his card back in the 2016 WTF and then proceeds to finish 188th in the FEX this year.


You could say the same for a ton of journeymen.

Seems to be a trend for a lot of European Tour players.  Do reasonably well on the EuroTour.  Have a purple in some WGCs and get a PGATour Card.

Joins the PGATour and can't keep a card.

Colsaerts, Oleson, Gonzo, Kjeldson to name a few.


Gonzo secured his Tour membership largely courtesy of a 3rd place finish at Bay Hill plus a 10th & 20th at Masters & US Open respectively. Following the Play Offs in his first year on Tour he was 82nd in FedEx pts, tho' 117th in "regular" season. His downfall then was poor play which led to slipping of the Top 50 - all downhill from there. And I think he pretty much stopped d'dipping after his first year - tough to do both when you're battling the web.com Tour or its spectre.
To some extent, Colsaerts was similar, Gaining his card largely thru good finishes at The Open and Greensboro. As robo said earlier, he tried to play through injuries during his second year and played poorly in Europe AND the US.
And Kjeldsen earned his card largely via Top Tens at Augusta & The Open. And Olesen via the Masters & Bay Hill.
I would say each secured their Tour card, not via WGC's, but excellence in Majors and full field Tour events.

Would also say reasons for subsequent failure to retain their cards run the gamut, but the "WGC" stereotype doesn't hold water - not with those examples anyway. Whilst plenty of journeyman ET golfers have had credible (dollar-wise anyway) careers on the PGA tour.

And, yes, I still dismiss the DataGolf analysis for reasons exhaustively explained and never adequately refuted. Martin Kaymer and King Louis exhibits #1 and #2 if you recall. Though equally true that some ET members just crash and burn.


In other news, well done to Austin Cook, first win of many I would think and a career which could so easily have already followed Patrick Reed's. What with the Young Guns who have received so much attention, plus Cantlay and Cook, the US future looks bright. Hopefully Austin Connelly can follow the route of Brooks Koepka and do the same for Oh Canada.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 12:41 am

Not exactly a star-studded field for the Aussie Open starting this week - would think it's 2/1 Day, Spieth; 25/1 bar those.
Where's Adam Scott, for instance? Or Leishman??
Most Likely Hong bl00dy Kong will have a higher owgr strength of field. Pathetic from our friends Down Under.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 7:32 am

On Jason Day, is he the worst number 1 of the last 10 years? Yes, he won a major, but I'd even put the consistency of Donald and Westwood over him.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Roller_Coaster on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 9:27 am

Major. World #1. Ability to beat anyone on his (ahem) Day.

I'd take that on my golfing epitaph, I'd possibly contemplate a middle finger pointing skywards emoji as a post script.

But, it is certainly an arguable point. I'd hazard Scott possibly vying. I personally would rather have the major of either Aussie to accompany any stint at #1 versus the Luke/Lee consistency and lack of major conversion. Whatever, they can all be incredibly proud of their achievements versus the multitude that haven't made it up there.


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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 10:03 am

Makes you bemoan that Phil never made it to #1.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 1:14 pm

super_realist wrote:On Jason Day, is he the worst number 1 of the last 10 years? Yes, he won a major, but I'd even put the consistency of Donald and Westwood over him.


Day went through a 15+ month stretch that was pretty formidable, 8 wins from early 2015 in San Diego thru his Players win in 2016 - anyone who has a run like that is almost certain to reach #1. His subsequent inconsistency and fragility (mental apparently as well as physical) shouldn't obscure those achievements.
He seems at a crossroads now, so much talent but seems to have a screw loose somewhere.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by pedro on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 1:25 pm

Think he’s having a third child. Doesn’t help his focus I reckon.
PS. Wonder where all his injuries come from... Whistle

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 1:39 pm

Day seems a bit of a diva, in a poor man's Tiger-like way - and a terrible Presidents Cup record, like Woods in RC.

Hadn't realised Davis Love was undergoing hip replacement surgery. This Tuesday apparently.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by robopz on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 3:03 pm

Kwini... don't get over here as much as I'd like... but thanks for a great year of notes and conversation starters... thumbsup

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 3:28 pm

Cheers robo,
All the best.

Impressive from the Cook at a lovely location . . . . . .

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by I'm never wrong on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 3:33 pm

Always interesting to read your notes Kwini, gives me a lot more insight than I would have normally. Regards.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Shotrock on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 6:08 pm

I don't think we've seen the last of Jason Day. Just 30 and has plenty of time to make more noise.

I would not be surprised, however, if Luke Donald or Lee Westwood went winless on the PGA tour going forward.

Still, great careers all around.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 6:13 pm

Shotrock wrote:I don't think we've seen the last of Jason Day. Just 30 and has plenty of time to make more noise.

I would not be surprised, however, if Luke Donald or Lee Westwood went winless on the PGA tour going forward.

Still, great careers all around.

Could be true SR, with age comes diminishing wins. Still think they've got a better chance of a "W" than you know who though.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 7:43 pm

I would guess Lehman has the worst resume of any #1 golfer, but he did win a major championship. And he was only #1 for one week.

But Westwood is definitely a close 2nd. He never won a tournament with an OWGR-60 rating or better. IMO, Westwood got to the #1 ranking somewhat capriciously. Westwood and ISM figured out that he could become #1 by sitting back and letting attrition get the better of Woods ranking in late 2010. I thought it was a chicken sh*t way to get to #1.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by RVC on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 8:00 pm

Kwini - I tried to reply via PM but the system wouldn't allow it as I haven't posted enough - I need to move off the side line in the future. The Yarmouth is Yarmouth Port, MA. Regards.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 8:18 pm

Cheers RVC; hadn't guessed that one. Drove past it on my way to Truro last year. Two on Cape Cod for TG then.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 8:52 pm

Are we a little spoiled in golf in that a couple of the number ones (norman and Woods) have dominated the game, and therefore we now expect this. Very high consistency is really all a number one needs to display. Maybe Lehaman and Westwood didn't achieve it in the exciting way the fans would really like to see but the ranking system doesn't do bonus points for flair play.
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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 8:59 pm

You're probably finally right about something Mac. I would add that we probably also realistically expect a player who hits the big time to somehow remain there for their entire career.

I think it's perfectly likely that at least a few of todays current top players will fall off a cliff in the coming years never to be seen again.

I can see someone as dense as Dustin Johnson be like that, whilst Spieth seems to be pretty streaky in between his periods of boring brilliance. Will the effect of all the money in the game finally take its toll on the aspiration and hunger for players? Certainly seems to be the case for McIlroy. After all, how many of us would go to work if we had 200 million in the bank?

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:28 am

If Sneds manages to hold on to a Top 50 ranking at year end, he can thank the Hero World Challenge for his Masters Invite. without that T6th in last years HWC, Sneds would be 51st right now in the rankings, behind Bill Haas.

If Stenson pulls out, like I suspect he will, maybe Sneds can talk Tiger into a 11th hour invite.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 21 Nov 2017, 12:34 am

Sneds'll surely make it anyway, if he can just stay fit. Wonder who is 1st alt for the HWC?

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Tue 21 Nov 2017, 2:36 am

kwinigolfer wrote:Sneds'll surely make it anyway, if he can just stay fit. Wonder who is 1st alt for the HWC?

Not sure what their criteria/procedure is. But Stenson was eligible for an original invite and did not accept one. He is in the field only after Day and Leishman and Stenson/Chappell took their place.

Stenson and McIlroy have the longest consecutive tenure in the OWGR Top 10 at 223 and 184 weeks. Sergio has a chance to pass both this week, and knocking Rory out of the Top 10 for the first time since May 2014. If Stenson doesn't play HWC, its only a matter of time before he is knocked out because he probably won't play until Abu Dhabi.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Tue 21 Nov 2017, 7:55 am

I think McIlroy deserves to be outside the top 10, he's been rubbish this year and I think the "injury" is just another excuse. It looks like he's bored with golf and has said so before.
He couldn't even break par on TOC in the most benign conditions ever seen. I genuinely think I would have done better than him that day.

I don't think he's the last of this "new wave" of Day, McIlroy, Spieth the Redeemer, Thomas, etc who are going to lose focus because of their money. Day's also gone off the radar so maybe he beat McIlroy to it.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Tue 21 Nov 2017, 4:42 pm

Jarrod Lyle can't seem to a catch break.

https://www.pgatour.com/news/2017/11/21/jarrod-lyle-cancer-battle-fight-life.html

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Tue 21 Nov 2017, 4:51 pm

Ooof, Thanks for passing this on.
Seems as if Aussies think every day is thanksgiving, but hopefully Lyle will be in action this time next year.
Funniest pro I've ever followed . . . . .

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Tue 21 Nov 2017, 6:15 pm

Austin Cook's grandfather played with Jack Nicklaus in the final round of a PGATournament in Memphis in 1965

Nicklaus was 5 shots behind going into the final round.  John Cook was 6 behind.  Nicklaus shot 65 to win his 14th tournament and John Cook shot 76 to fall way behind.

Interesting nugget

Nicklaus was just 25 years old, but already had won four majors, including that spring’s Masters Tournament. He’d also won the 1964 money list (by a mere $81.13 over Arnold Palmer), an accomplishment that meant Nicklaus’ entry fees were waived for the 1965 season. Not, of course, that he needed the financial assistance.

https://www.pgatour.com/news/2017/11/21/austin-cook-rsm-classic.html

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Plunky on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 2:41 pm

Many thanks for all the ballwasher notes Kwini !  Happy Thanksgiving to all here who will be celebrating the occasion.  

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 2:49 pm

Good story, GPB.


Las Vegas golf betting, as quoted in the press here anyway, always look as if the "houses" never learned how to write a book (or at least a competitive one). With that caveat, these are prices quoted for winning ANY Major in 2018:

6/4: DJ, Spieth
5/2: Rory
7/2: Day, Rickie, Thomas, Matsuyama, Rahm.
9/2: Rosey
5/1: Koepka
15/2: Sergio, Stenson, Casey
10/1: Scott
12/1: Leishman, Kuchar, Reed, Hatton, Fleetwood, Phil
15/1: Berger, Matty Fitz, Cantlay, Grace, Kis, Noren, Louis, Charl, Xander, Sneds, Bubba
20/1: Franny, Kaymer, Rafa, Rafa, TIGER WOODS

Along with other pie in the sky choices at 25's and 30/1, that looks like a 150% book to me; you'd probably get odds like this against some of these nearly men ever winning a(nother) Major, but interesting how the Las Vegas mind works anyway.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 2:51 pm

Plunky wrote:Many thanks for all the ballwasher notes Kwini !  Happy Thanksgiving to all here who will be celebrating the occasion.  


Thanks Plunky,
Best wishes to you and yours - hope you'll be playing tomorrow?

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by Plunky on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 4:17 pm

That's the plan Kwini. Should get in 9 holes before heading to the in-laws.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 4:40 pm

How many Rafa's are at 20/1 Kwini?

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by kwinigolfer on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 4:45 pm

Rafa C-B and Rafa Finau . . . . . . . .

Champions Tour qualifier next week, much more interesting than the circle jerk in The Bahamas . . . . . . .

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by GPB on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 4:51 pm

Ok, whew....thought it might be Jacqueline.

And yes, there appears to be a huge amount of VIG on those Las Vegas Odds.

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by McLaren on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 5:12 pm

Interesting ogilvy press conference especially from 15 mins when he talks about bifurcation and ball roll back. 

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

Post by super_realist on Wed 22 Nov 2017, 5:19 pm

Ball roll back is such a stupid point. People will always hit a ball further or with more control than others.
Dustin Johnson is still going to hit a ball further than Luke Donald.

As for bringing the course back into play for more people, that's also nonsense, people just end up in trouble in different positions and end up with different issues to face.

If people want to make it more difficult for the pro's whilst keeping it ok for the amateurs then just grow the bloody rough up between 310 and 370 yards, narrow the fairway and then when they're finished mow it down for the club golfer. Every course has at least a month of preparation on it before a tournament, so you don't even need to develop a crappy ball.

It's much more fun plotting your way around a course anyway than being a hacker who just pulls his driver out at every opportunity. It would be so easy for them to do this, but there simply isn't the appetite.

It's always struggling pro's like Ogilvy who are in favour of changes like this because they can't keep up. Was it Hogan who said when he got the yips that a putt should only be half a stroke?

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Re: PGA Tour: Time to Take a Break: Notes from the Ballwasher

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