England vs Samoa - 25th November

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England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 20 Nov 2017, 12:36 pm

First topic message reminder :

Details

Date: Saturday 25th November
Time: 14:30 GMT
Location: Twickenham Stadium, Twickenham, Surrey
TV: Sky Sports
Radio: R5L


Officials

Referee: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 1: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 2: Wayne Davies (Wales)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)



Head to Head

7 Played 7
7 Won 0
0 Drawn 0
244 Total Points 100
35 Average Score 14



Recent Form

22nd Nov 2014 Twickenham Eng 28 - Samoa 9
20th Nov 2010 Twickenham Eng 26 - Samoa 13


Teams

ENGLAND

England team to play Samoa

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 63 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 28 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs 9 caps), 12 Alex Lozowski (Saracens 3 caps), 11 Elliot Daly (Wasps 15 caps), 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 39 caps) co-captain, 9 Danny Care (Harlequins 75 caps), 1 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers 4 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens 19 caps), 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 76 caps), 4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 46 caps), 5 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby 5 caps), 6 Maro Itoje (Saracens 13 caps), 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 58 caps) co-captain, 8 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 2 caps).

Finishers

16 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 88 caps), 17 Joe Marler (Harlequins 52 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 4 caps), 19 Nick Isiekwe (Saracens 1 cap), 20 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 60 caps), 21 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers 72 caps), 22 Piers Francis (Northampton Saints 2 caps), 23 Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby 3 caps).




Samoa


15-Ah See Tuala, 14-Paul Perez, 13-Kieron Fonotia, 12-Alapati Leiua, 11-David Lemi, 10-Tim Nanai-Williams, 9-Dwayne Polataivao, 8-Jack Lam, 7-TJ Ioane, 6-Piula Fa'asalele, 5-Chris Vui (captain), 4-Josh Tyrell, 3-Donald Brighouse, 2-Motu Matu´u, 1-Jordan Lay.

Replacements: 16-Manu Leiataua, 17-James Lay, 18-Hisa Sasagi, 19-Fa'atiga Lemalu, 20-Ofisa Treviranus, 21-Melani Matavao, 22-Reynold Lee-Lo, 23-JJ Taulagi




Last edited by LondonTiger on Thu 23 Nov 2017, 10:08 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by lostinwales on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 5:13 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Normally a good set of people on here but point taken when you're about!

So it's our fault for reading the forums.

There is some kind of analogy with some politics going on at the moment, but I am trying very hard not to go down that route.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Heaf on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 5:32 pm

TightHEAD wrote:Well worse things happen at sea!

Plus the mobile version of this site is too small to see all the details of what thread you are in.

No biggy really. Best option is to avoid the Interweb.



Yeah right - you know exactly what you're doing - why not just admit you get your jollies from deliberately annoying people?

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 5:40 pm

I get my 'jollies' from talking/watching rugby.

The Scotland games was great today. Go and watch it and stop your moaning!
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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 5:42 pm

Great shame about Wales getting beat 0-70 against NZ Wink

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 5:43 pm

Careful they may sue you for talking about other games!

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 5:44 pm

Nah. We like pooly.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by TightHEAD on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 6:13 pm

Wales doing well
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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LondonTiger on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 6:38 pm

So, did anyone shine today?

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Scottrf on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 6:42 pm

LondonTiger wrote:So, did anyone shine today?
Ford and Slade IMO. Then good George, Itoje, Simmons, May, Loz, Daly, Brown. Rest not up to much. Our protection of the ball was awful.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by mid_gen on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 6:56 pm

Didn't think anyone had a particularly good game. Very loose and scrappy, lots of mistakes. Too many players looking to make a big impression instead of doing the basics well (lack of players getting stuck in the breakdown dirty work a prime example).

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Cyril on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 7:41 pm

It's a real shame we don't have a 4th Test with our full-strength side against NZ this Autumn. I think it shows our heightened ambitions that we're smashing opposition with new combinations and still feeling a bit meh.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by WELL-PAST-IT on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:34 pm

Scottrf wrote:
LondonTiger wrote:So, did anyone shine today?
Ford and Slade IMO. Then good George, Itoje, Simmons, May, Loz, Daly, Brown. Rest not up to much. Our protection of the ball was awful.

Scottrf, Itoje is brilliant, but today I thought he had one of his rare poor games, gave away 3 penalties from my count (highlights only), thought Courtney looked good carrying as usual these days, one of the few forwards that did apart from Simmons.

George was okay, but funnily enough when he went off, England suddenly looked threatening and scored three tries. I have heard that about hookers before though.

The player I thought excelled was Brown, back to his best, but has learnt how to pass.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Cyril on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:42 pm

Lawes had great carrying when he came on. Something he has had problems with in the past. Difficult to take down, protected the ball well and added momentum.

Brown looked good. May had his moments too. Seems much more composed.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by lostinwales on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:44 pm

Simmonds stats pretty impressive - 18 runs 96 m   3rd highest after Daly then Brown. That plus 14 tackles - as many as the Robshaw twins.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Cyril on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:45 pm

We've only seen glimpses, but I honestly think that Lozowski will be an integral part of this England side in the next few years. He is class.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Cyril on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:47 pm

lostinwales wrote:Simmonds stats pretty impressive - 18 runs 96 m   3rd highest after Daly then Brown. That plus 14 tackles - as many as the Robshaw twins.
I like the look of Simmonds. With Vunipola and Hughes being fairly similar options, he (and Mercer)offer something different. Jones seems really open to players offering a new angle.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by lostinwales on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:54 pm

Cyril wrote:
lostinwales wrote:Simmonds stats pretty impressive - 18 runs 96 m   3rd highest after Daly then Brown. That plus 14 tackles - as many as the Robshaw twins.
I like the look of Simmonds. With Vunipola and Hughes being fairly similar options, he (and Mercer)offer something different. Jones seems really open to players offering a new angle.
Yes. I still think we do much better with a monster carrier somewhere, but having a guy like Simmonds would add a lot of options, especially if he can keep his workrate up around the park. He seems to have come out of nowhere. (Nice to see someone exactly the same size as me do so well too...)

Funny how after the summer we had Mark Wilson looking so comfortable in the back row and now he seems to have gone. But I don't think he's missed given the talent that we do have coming through.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by majesticimperialman on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:56 pm

I know the score line was very good. 

But the amount of time England got turned over, means England have a lot of work to do before the 6ns. 

Still another win for England, the team/squad is looking good going forward to the rugby world cup.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Scottrf on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:01 pm

I'm not sure the scoreline was very good. 76-0 is very good.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by lostinwales on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 10:04 pm

I know its a bit off topic but one of the England women's team got 11 tries in 2 games vs Canada...

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by SecretFly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 10:09 pm

Sorry Lost..... she'd be found out by officials...it ain't worth the attempt. A moustache might get her through a first half but the glue only lasts 58 minutes really.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by lostinwales on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 10:40 pm

SecretFly wrote:Sorry Lost..... she'd be found out by officials...it ain't worth the attempt.  A moustache might get her through a first half but the glue only lasts 58 minutes really.

58 minutes. That is a very precise time. How come you know that number so well? chin

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by SecretFly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 10:49 pm

lostinwales wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Sorry Lost..... she'd be found out by officials...it ain't worth the attempt.  A moustache might get her through a first half but the glue only lasts 58 minutes really.

58 minutes. That is a very precise time. How come you know that number so well? chin

censored

I over-thought the joke, lost. That's all. Smile I initially thought half time (40mins) would be good enough to get the gist across but then I realised you'd challenge me about her ability to apply more glue during the break! So I tried to incorporate the break time and a little bit of the second half so that the moustache would fall off just as she was scoring her 16th try! Whistle

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 8:45 am

Sunday Times asked Jones (Stephen), Barnes and Dayglo to give their XVs to start the 6Ns. As to be expected some interesting choices, Jones especially:

Watson
May
Daly
Te'o
Nowell
Farrell
Wigglesworth
Mako
Hartley
Cole
Launchbury
Kruis
Armand
Itoje
Billy


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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by lostinwales on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 9:16 am

LondonTiger wrote:Sunday Times asked Jones (Stephen), Barnes and Dayglo to give their XVs to start the 6Ns. As to be expected some interesting choices, Jones especially:

Watson
May
Daly
Te'o
Nowell
Farrell
Wigglesworth
Mako
Hartley
Cole
Launchbury
Kruis
Armand
Itoje
Billy

Wow. Someone wasn't impressed by us in the AI's - or summer for that matter.

It is an opinion but seems so far off the mark

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 9:21 am

Some random calls...

Daly is the one interesting suggesting from that list. I've had question marks about his defence but you can't argue with his impact when he gets involved in the game. With none of our other 13 options really impressing, could Daly be worth a try?

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 10:23 am

Are you sure it was really jones as he had cooper wooley starting for the lions in the summer?

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 10:31 am

I think the only massive thing we definitely learned is that we need to play a proper 6 and 7. We can get by with a lock at 6 and Robshaw 7 but the balance ain't quite there.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by TightHEAD on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 11:30 am

We learned that without Farrell we don't look as half as good.

Oh and Fords goal kicking is gash.
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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LionsV2 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 11:50 am

Ford nailed some beauties yesterday and has impressed massively in that regard this year, I don't think Farrell missing was the problem but the lack of a balanced back row.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 11:54 am

Having watched the highlights package now, what stood out for me was just how shambolic we were at the breakdown. Not having seen the whole game, I do not want to jump to conclusions, but it did feel as if some forwards were spending a little too much time on the wing.


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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 11:56 am

I thought Ford kicked quite well.

One worrying thing though, when was the last time Youngs or Farrell made a line break?

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LionsV2 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 11:58 am

LondonTiger wrote:Having watched the highlights package now, what stood out for me was just how shambolic we were at the breakdown.  Not having seen the whole game, I do not want to jump to conclusions, but it did feel as if some forwards were spending a little too much time on the wing.


The highlights probably don't do justice to quite how bad we were at the breakdown; it's never been a strength but seems to have regressed even further.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 11:59 am

LionsV2 wrote:Ford nailed some beauties yesterday and has impressed massively in that regard this year, I don't think Farrell missing was the problem but the lack of a balanced back row.

Ford hit one bad goal kick in the two games he had the responsibility (conversion following Lozowski's try). Not seen the second miss from the last try of the game. His two misses against Argentina both hit woodwork, one from distance the other from the touchline. Overall his kicking percentage was higher than Farrell's (note not saying he is better than the Saracen).

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:02 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I thought Ford kicked quite well.

One worrying thing though, when was the last time Youngs or Farrell made a line break?

Last clean break from Youngs was Scotland in 6Ns.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LionsV2 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:02 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
LionsV2 wrote:Ford nailed some beauties yesterday and has impressed massively in that regard this year, I don't think Farrell missing was the problem but the lack of a balanced back row.

Ford hit one bad goal kick in the two games he had the responsibility (conversion following Lozowski's try). Not seen the second miss from the last try of the game. His two misses against Argentina both hit woodwork, one from distance the other from the touchline. Overall his kicking percentage was higher than Farrell's (note not saying he is better than the Saracen).

He was also 12/14 on the tour of Argentina, seems that TightHead is stuck in last year.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:08 pm

LondonTiger wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:I thought Ford kicked quite well.

One worrying thing though, when was the last time Youngs or Farrell made a line break?

Last clean break from Youngs was Scotland in 6Ns.

It's not great reading tbh. Neither of the halfback are doing it really, can't remember the last time Ford did.

I'm a big fan of Ford, his kicking from hand is sublime and passing excellent. He has gas, he just doesn't seem to back himself these days.

Has Ford made many breaks for Tigers?

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:10 pm

Some, but not run much - usually looking to put May, Toomua, Veainu in holes.

Youngs has run a lot more for Leicester than he has for England this season.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 1:57 pm

Lozowski and Slade did well and are skilled playmakers but I still think we miss some brute force in that midfield .

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by cb on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 2:14 pm

Much as I like skillful players, I think were missing ball carriers in the back-row and in mid-field.  Nice to have pace, etc. but I think overall England lacked a little balance in both areas.

B Vunipola and Teo would have made life interesting and maybe created more space for the speedsters and passers.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by hugehandoff on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 2:18 pm

EJ's will have some interesting choices for the 6Ns if some players return from injuries. The balance in the backs is not right especially when our forwards are under the cosh. T'eo or Manu (only once he has played about 8 matches and proven fitness and form) are required to give us some physicality. I did agree with Simon Jones that Daly may well be our best 13 and I would like to see Farrell, T'eo and Daly as the midfield. May, Watson and Brown in the back three. I was all for dropping Brown but his form seems to have picked up.

Cole is the other area of main concern. His scrummaging remains suspect and Williams certainly provided an impact when he came on.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LionsV2 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 2:40 pm

So you're dropping Ford, the player who makes everything tick?

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 2:52 pm

I am struggling to see EJ playing Daly at 13. Since making his first start at 13 against SA last year, he has been used exclusively on the wing.

I suspect we will see Te'o at 13 come 6Ns rater than Daly, with the Wasp joining Brown and Watson in the back 3.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by EnglishReign on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 3:44 pm

Was at the game, which was a pretty stagnant affair bar the first and last 10. For me, Simmonds shone the most - bloke was all over the park, looks really dynamic and powerful.

May looked good again but I do feel sorry for the guy as the ball went down the left side 90% of the time. He had to pass to himself at one point just to have a run out. Solid defence too.

Brown - really good tbf. I was all for him being dropped but the bloke is just imperious at the back and took some big hits with no dramas.

Also confirmed to me (for the billionth time) that Care isn't a starter - bring him on when the game has opened up and let him work his magic! Other special mentions to Loz, Ford and Daly for good performances.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 4:32 pm

6 things learned from woodward via he daily mail. Not my fault the in laws buy it.
England are moving in the right direction.
Robshaw will be hard to shift from 6.
Hartley will be hard to shift from 2.
Lions have been a blessing for both.
Farrell is a nailed on starter due to his organisation skills and kicking.
Launchbury can't be discounted.
Underhill must now prove he's not just about tackling.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by Barney McGrew did it on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 4:50 pm

A decent enough performance from a fairly green side. But I hope I never see the lack of protection of our own ball in the tackle again. Too much hanging out looking for the champagne moments by our pack – even Brown was getting turned over. You can’t do the sexy stuff if you don’t do the gritty stuff first. Still, even the beeb must be happy enough with 48 points.
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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 6:21 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:7 things learned from woodward via he daily mail. Not my fault the in laws buy it.
England are moving in the right direction.
Robshaw will be hard to shift from 6.
Hartley will be hard to shift from 2.
Lions have been a blessing for both.
Farrell is a nailed on starter due to his organisation skills and kicking.
Launchbury can't be discounted.
Underhill must now prove he's not just about tackling.

Jones probably needs another 360 staff under him and maybe 50 more assistant coaches to put himself in with a real chance of that WC.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by yappysnap on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 8:30 pm

Haven't got to watch any of the games. But would people agree with Woodward's points there?

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by yappysnap on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 8:31 pm

Also gutted to hear George didn't nail down that starting spot after all the arguments...

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 9:39 pm

I really hope there's a monster young centre coming through someone's academy who can make a late claim.

It's one area that's glaringly missing...some beef to go direct when required.

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Re: England vs Samoa - 25th November

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