Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

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Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Collapse2005 on Thu 23 Nov 2017, 1:42 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/adam-byrne-set-for-ireland-debut-against-argentina-1.3301491

Adam Byrne set to earn his debut. Byrne would thus become the 49th new cap and 94th player used by Schmidt in his five years at the helm. Hmmm, Schmidt doesn't give youth a chance?  Yahoo

Head to head:

16 Games
Wins 10
Losses 6

If Ireland beat Argentina they will have defeated every tier 1 team in the last two years (except Wales who we only drew with and lost to).

15. Rob Kearney (UCD/Leinster) 77 caps
14. Adam Byrne (UCD/Leinster)*
13. Chris Farrell (Young Munster/Munster) 1 cap
12. Bundee Aki (Galwegians/Connacht) 1 cap
11. Jacob Stockdale (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 3 caps
10. Johnny Sexton (St Mary's College/Leinster) 67 caps
9. Conor Murray (Garryowen/Munster) 58 caps


1.Cian Healy (Clontarf/Leinster) 72 caps
2. Rory Best (Banbridge/Ulster) 105 caps Captain
3. Tadhg Furlong (Clontarf/Leinster) 18 caps
4. James Ryan (UCD/Leinster) 3 caps
5. Iain Henderson (Ballynahinch/Ulster) 33 caps
6. Peter O'Mahony (Cork Constitution/Munster) 41 caps
7. Sean O'Brien (UCD/Leinster) 50 caps
8. CJ Stander (Shannon/Munster) 17 caps

Replacements
16. James Tracy (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
17. Dave Kilcoyne (UL Bohemians/Munster) 21 caps
18. John Ryan (Cork Constitution/Munster) 10 caps
19. Devin Toner (Lansdowne/Leinster) 52 caps
20. Rhys Ruddock (St Mary's College/Leinster) 18 caps
21. Luke McGrath (UCD/Leinster) 5 caps
22. Ian Keatley (Young Munster/Munster) 6 caps
23. Andrew Conway (Garryowen/Munster) 5 caps


Last edited by Collapse2005 on Thu 23 Nov 2017, 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 12:22 pm

I think Byrne is going to have a big game today and will be the talking point after today's game. Expect him to challenge a lot of high balls.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 5:28 pm

What's up with the extended intros to the anthems? Flip me, the game won't start until 6.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 5:59 pm

That try was quite wonderful. Farrell looking good at this level.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 7:58 pm

Missed most of the second half, but that was a pretty successful Autumn tour. Seems like Schmidt is finally selecting some of the players who can actually carry out some of his attacking moves, particularly off the set piece.

Oh and Rob Kearney played really well. Wink

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Cyril on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:02 pm

Thought that Ireland would smash a disheartened Argentina (they really seem a 2nd tier side thse days).

Not seen the game, but seemed pretty close.

Do Ireland need a change from Schmidt?

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:09 pm

?

Oh well, the first game (SA) was lovely...in the second half.  You can't have too much of a good thing I suppose.  Don't want to spoil ourselves.

I just wish someone would come clean and tell us...in clouded code language if necessary (winks, nods, ear twitches etc) - that the millions of minutes spent defending is actually a genuine pre-planned gameplan.  I want to know for certain whether it's Joe just being a constant masochist with the endless box kick+defend instructions or whether it's just that he has a toothless attack regime that seldom works smoothly or consistently?

If it's the former then at least I'd sit back and try to enjoy the technical beauty of defending for so long - not my kinda thing but at least I'd appreciate that it's the gameplan going like clockwork.  If it's the latter, then we're fooling ourselves in thinking we're well on the way this time to having the players and systems to go one or two stages beyond our usual in World Cups.

80% of the second half defending?  Design or impotency?

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Sin é on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:57 pm

Cyril wrote:Thought that Ireland would smash a disheartened Argentina (they really seem a 2nd tier side thse days).

Not seen the game, but seemed pretty close.

Do Ireland need a change from Schmidt?

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Pot Hale on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 8:59 pm

Really enjoyed that. Stockdale warmed up all of us freezing Irish fans.

Played within themselves and still secured the win with 65 minutes to go.
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Cyril on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:07 pm

Sin é wrote:
Cyril wrote:Thought that Ireland would smash a disheartened Argentina (they really seem a 2nd tier side thse days).

Not seen the game, but seemed pretty close.

Do Ireland need a change from Schmidt?

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
I thought you might like Ireland struggling, Sin! Schmidt out!!!  Very Happy Maybe a Munster man is required?

I would like Ireland to play a bit of rugby too. One day. Not under current coaching.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Sin é on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:09 pm

Cyril wrote:
Sin é wrote:
Cyril wrote:Thought that Ireland would smash a disheartened Argentina (they really seem a 2nd tier side thse days).

Not seen the game, but seemed pretty close.

Do Ireland need a change from Schmidt?

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
I thought you might like Ireland struggling, Sin! Schmidt out!!!

Very kind of you Cyril to think of me.
Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

Anyway, what do you think of the IRFU telling the NZRU to piss off when they asked if Ireland would play a game in The Netherlands ?
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:14 pm

The Netherlands? Shocked

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:16 pm

You won’t see us play rugby when you don’t watch the game.It was 20-0 after 45 minutes and game over,we just eased off and the score became respectable.
Great to see our game evolving,we’be been playing a more expansive style since after the WC but with genuine pace in the back 3 we look like being a really dangerous team.Earls and Stockdale on the wings will give us some serious attacking threat.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Sin é on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:18 pm

SecretFly wrote:The Netherlands?  Shocked

Feyenoord's De Kuip Stadium in Rotterdam, seemingly (according to Balls.ie which they saw in some of the irish tabloids).

edit: Kiwi's were a bit shy with the cash seemingly.
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Cyril on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:22 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:You won’t see us play rugby when you don’t watch the game.It was 20-0 after 45 minutes and game over,we just eased off and the score became respectable.
80 minute game. See how many points NZ score late on (and England) to see where it really matters.

I think Scotland may run the legs off your old guys again this 6 Nations.

Ireland still seem a bit behind the times and reliant on the old guys.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Sin é on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:28 pm

[quote="Cyril"]
asoreleftshoulder wrote:

Ireland still seem a bit behind the times and reliant on the old guys.

Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:30 pm

Cyril wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:You won’t see us play rugby when you don’t watch the game.It was 20-0 after 45 minutes and game over,we just eased off and the score became respectable.
80 minute game. See how many points NZ score late on (and England) to see where it really matters.

I think Scotland may run the legs off your old guys again this 6 Nations.

Ireland still seem a bit behind the times and reliant on the old guys.

😆Now even I'm laughing, Cyril.  Good man.  I needed to get in a better mood.

Scotland do buzz like a bee and offload like crazy but sure.................. they'll all have heart attacks before we even meet them in February.  You lot (Scotland, England and Wales) flog the bejaysus out of your poor players... MUSH! MUSH!.  Gotta relax more.  Chill.  Hug


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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 9:30 pm

We, on the other, hand beat the bejaysus out of ours.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Pot Hale on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 11:28 pm

SecretFly wrote:We, on the other, hand beat the bejaysus out of ours.

"hand beat"? Is that a new form of torture?
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 11:31 pm

No it's a new kinky craze in wild party places of the world......but that's all I'm saying down that avenue lest I expose a few famous faces that I've met down it ...... Whistle

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sat 25 Nov 2017, 11:38 pm

Cyril wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:You won’t see us play rugby when you don’t watch the game.It was 20-0 after 45 minutes and game over,we just eased off and the score became respectable.
80 minute game. See how many points NZ score late on (and England) to see where it really matters.

I think Scotland may run the legs off your old guys again this 6 Nations.

Ireland still seem a bit behind the times and reliant on the old guys.

Yeah we did the 80 minutes against S.A. ,how many points did England score late on v Argentina when they played a few weeks ago?

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by lostinwales on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:20 am

SecretFly wrote:No it's a new kinky craze in wild party places of the world......but that's all I'm saying down that avenue lest I expose a few famous faces that I've met down it ...... Whistle

Bet you only recognise them after the glue wears off..

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 12:23 am

Yahoo OK

Now there is joined up 606 thinking!


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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by geoff999rugby on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 10:41 am

I'll make one comment

I watch every game Farrell played for Ulster and most of those for Munster.
That was the best game he has EVER played in Ireland
Still not convinced by his taking of a pass, or his retaining possession in contact but credit where it is due

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by asoreleftshoulder on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 11:05 am

Yeah I thought he outshone Aki who played pretty well but stalled a few good attacking positions with passes that were behind the receiver.It was a good display from such a new centre pairing.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by carpet baboon on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 1:49 pm

I would have thought that when Farrell went off moving Stockdale to 13 would have been the obvious choice. Had Byrne ever played center before yesterday?

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 2:24 pm

Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Kearney is nailed on starting FB for the world cup

I think your crystal ball might be faulty.

Doh, think yours might be.

Kearney proves the doubters wrong once again.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Sin é on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 2:44 pm

Rob is always good for the big occasion. He is nailed on starter for next world cup (and if he plays liked played yesterday, he will deserve it).

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by geoff999rugby on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 4:33 pm

carpet baboon wrote:I would have thought that when Farrell went off moving Stockdale to 13 would have been the obvious choice. Had Byrne ever played center before yesterday?

That suggests to me Schmidt views Stockdale as a starter on the wing whereas Bryne is being viewed as a squad player who could play in multiple positions

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by geoff999rugby on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 4:35 pm

I too think Kearney is the first choice started - had a decent game

At least Conway put his hands up to be the obvious cover

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by geoff999rugby on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 4:37 pm

Someone earlier mentioned we typically take 5 back three players

Baring injury, or a big drop in form, I reckon R. Kearney, Earls, Conway and Stockdale are as good as on the plane
Everyone else is scrabbling for the last spot.


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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 6:03 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:Someone earlier mentioned we typically take 5 back three players

Baring injury, or a big drop in form, I reckon R. Kearney, Earls, Conway and Stockdale are as good as on the plane
Everyone else is scrabbling for the last spot.


Much much too early for that kind of certainty. It was - in terms of results and some performances - considered a good AI season. England, Scotland, Wales, France and Italy await us. We've been here all too often before. Kearney and Earls have probably booked their seat (if fit) based on past exploits as much as any current form. Conway and Stockdale have to prove consistency and potency through the 6N, if chosen. It's always tougher on the newer recruits. They actually have to work harder to stay in contention.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by profitius on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 6:11 pm

The world cup is a long way away yet so expect a few more backs to step up. Jordan Larmour being the one to look out for. He could be next season's Stockdale.


Kearney played very well yesterday. You're nearly guaranteed a solid performance from him which is what appeals to Schmidt. In 2 years time he'll be 33 and an injury prone one.


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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by geoff999rugby on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 6:20 pm

Know what you are saying but Stockdale is only going to get better
Will be a guaranteed starter for Ulster and to be fair I suspect Conway will be as well for Munster.
Also he is the only one to put his hand up for the 15 shirt, other than Kearney.

Larmour will be one to look out for but needs to get a good run of games in the back three, for Leinster, to make it.
Always more difficult at Leinster to get a good run of games due to the depth there

Haven't seen anyone, at the other three provinces, who is good enough that we haven't already seen - no one bubbling under as it were.


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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Rory_Gallagher on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 6:33 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
Rory_Gallagher wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Kearney is nailed on starting FB for the world cup

I think your crystal ball might be faulty.

Doh, think yours might be.

Kearney proves the doubters wrong once again.

But I don't have a crystal ball. I don't know what is going to happen in two years.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 6:53 pm

Ireland back up to 3rd in the world after the November series. Probably about right.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 7:21 pm

Are they?

If true then the World Rugby Official Site Ranking section itself got things quite wrong because in their calculating about the weekend's games I seem to recall them saying Ireland's position can't improve no matter what the results are even in other games.


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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 7:55 pm

Maybe you are right. Saw it on pundit arena

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 8:01 pm

I hope it's me that's wrong... we're already so close to Australia that it would be a shame we didn't benefit a little bit by their dramatic fall against Scotland.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 9:34 pm

SecretFly wrote:I hope it's me that's wrong... we're already so close to Australia that it would be a shame we didn't benefit a little bit by their dramatic fall against Scotland.

Sco v Aus
"Australia can move up to 88.49 rating points if they win by more than 15 points. It is possible for Scotland to break into the top four for the first time since the rankings began in October 2003 if they win well, Ireland are soundly beaten and South Africa lose to Italy for the second year running."
Irl v Arg
"Ireland do not stand to gain any reward due to there being over eight points difference between the teams before home weighting is factored in, but Argentina could overtake France even in defeat because a home loss to Japan would see Les Bleus’ points total dip below Argentina’s. A big win for Los Pumas, similar to the one they achieved over Ireland in Cardiff in the quarter-finals of RWC 2015, would be worth three full ratings points, boosting their tally to 81.22."

They omitted the possibility of Australia losing to Scotland and Ireland winning.  And since Aus were only .90 ahead of Ireland, any kind of a loss would be either 1.198 or 1.797 if loss margin greater than 15 points.
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 9:53 pm

Yes, that's what I thought. Sloppy by the Official Organisation running the damn sport that they would fail to point out all possibilities for Ireland. They did seem to have a more thorough analysis of other top ranked games on the day.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 10:06 pm

Sin é wrote:Rob is always good for the big occasion. He is nailed on starter for next world cup (and if he plays liked played yesterday, he will deserve it).


Problem is he only plays like that once in a blue moon (or when his contract is up for renewal).

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 10:15 pm

Despite all the headlines, Rob was still running directly up those blind alleys of his too - so.................... injury could be on the cards for him again in the short to medium term if he don't stop running directly into people! He just looks at the ground and away he goes. More bloodhound than gazelle - he finds his man every time.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 10:23 pm

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
Sin é wrote:Rob is always good for the big occasion. He is nailed on starter for next world cup (and if he plays liked played yesterday, he will deserve it).


Problem is he only plays like that once in a blue moon (or when his contract is up for renewal).

I thought it was only when he is dissed here on 606v2 by gobshiites who never lifted a rugby ball in their lives and know the sum total of sweet fark all about the game.
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 10:27 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
Sin é wrote:Rob is always good for the big occasion. He is nailed on starter for next world cup (and if he plays liked played yesterday, he will deserve it).


Problem is he only plays like that once in a blue moon (or when his contract is up for renewal).

I thought it was only when he is dissed here on 606v2 by gobshiites who never lifted a rugby ball in their lives and know the sum total of sweet fark all about the game.    

You're right, Pot.  The coach that is going to The Crusaders was joking during the half-time interval that Ireland would end up with 40 points to zero.  I laughed out loud.  He knows his stuff, that man.  Wink

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Geen sport voor watjes on Sun 26 Nov 2017, 10:48 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Geen sport voor watjes wrote:
Sin é wrote:Rob is always good for the big occasion. He is nailed on starter for next world cup (and if he plays liked played yesterday, he will deserve it).


Problem is he only plays like that once in a blue moon (or when his contract is up for renewal).

I thought it was only when he is dissed here on 606v2 by gobshiites who never lifted a rugby ball in their lives and know the sum total of sweet fark all about the game.    

Good point pot. You have shown that you know fark all about rugby and that was even before the game Cool

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 27 Nov 2017, 12:16 pm

Name the last game Kearney played badly for Ireland Dod? Some people are too jealous for their own good. No one has put in as high a performance as Kearney does at FB since possibly Geordan Murphy or Dempsey.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by Collapse2005 on Mon 27 Nov 2017, 12:21 pm

SecretFly wrote:Despite all the headlines, Rob was still running directly up those blind alleys of his too - so.................... injury could be on the cards for him again in the short to medium term if he don't stop running directly into people!  He just looks at the ground and away he goes.  More bloodhound than gazelle - he finds his man every time.

He was running to where the support was. It is fairly obviously the game plan.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Mon 27 Nov 2017, 12:24 pm

Anyway, we ARE third, Thank God. It's nice to get some even symbolic reward for the efforts of the season. It's hard to keep going up when you're so close to the top. It's sometimes easy to see how New Zealand must feel.... they win just about every game they play and still the rest of the crowd ain't that far behind them on this system. You can't put money in the bank! You're always a game or two away from bankruptcy.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by SecretFly on Mon 27 Nov 2017, 12:34 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Despite all the headlines, Rob was still running directly up those blind alleys of his too - so.................... injury could be on the cards for him again in the short to medium term if he don't stop running directly into people!  He just looks at the ground and away he goes.  More bloodhound than gazelle - he finds his man every time.

He was running to where the support was. It is fairly obviously the game plan.

Obviously is...with all of them...a gameplan.  I think I point out that I'm not that happy about that gameplan after every International window.  It needs extras at a more consistent level.  It needs us to push the opposition off us more often throughout an 80 minute game.  The thing is our gameplan asks a lot of players and it puts them into serious injury territory much too often.  Running full blast into people is more risky than evasion.  It simply and logically is.  Thus why we sometimes run out of central players early in International campaigns (6N, WC).

Now having said all that, I still feel Kearney is honestly trying to evade at times and just doesn't have the feet to do so.  So it is a limiting factor in his game.  Kearney is at his most lethal when he's actually hovering around the opposition's tryline.  That's where I feel he's always sharper and more useful than in the duty he does back in his own half.

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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

Post by rodders on Mon 27 Nov 2017, 1:34 pm

SecretFly wrote:Anyway, we ARE third, Thank God.  

Correction Fly, Jakob Stockdale is 3rd, the rest of you bums are outside the top 6.
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Re: Ireland v Argentina 25th Nov 2017 5:30 Aviva

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