The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

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The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 01 Dec 2017, 7:10 am

First topic message reminder :

2nd Test Adelaide, December 2-6, 2017

Australia:
Bancroft, Warner, Khawaja, Smith *, Handscomb, S Marsh, Paine †, Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood

England:
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root *, Malan, Ali, Bairstow †, Woakes, Overton, Broad, Anderson



Last edited by The Loaded Dog on Sat 02 Dec 2017, 2:58 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 5:37 am

At tea England are 128 for 5. Four wickets down in that session three of which I would say were self-inflicted. England could only affor to lose one perhaps two wickets in that session but lost four.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Steffan on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 5:46 am

Geoffrey Boycott's dress sense and colour coordination is England's best performance of the day so far

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 5:52 am

Going by the innings so far I gotecast Bairstow or Ali to give awsy their wicket before the score reaches 150.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Steffan on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 5:59 am

Not familiar with the term gotecast sorry...but I think Ali isn't having a bad innings so far to be honest

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 6:04 am

What a catch! Well done Lyon.

Shame for Moeen as he dug in well, but he was getting visibly frustrated at the slow rate of scoring.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 6:04 am

And there we go. Ali caught and bowled by Lyon. England 132 for 6. Another needless wicket loss.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 6:05 am

Superb catch Lyon!

I think he means "got either..." instead of "gotecast", Steffan.
Unless he's got recievers on his gote?

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Steffan on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 6:20 am

The Loaded Dog wrote:Superb catch Lyon!

I think he means "got either..." instead of "gotecast", Steffan.
Unless he's got recievers on his gote?
Ah right. I thought it might be a cricket term I wasn't familiar with Laugh

Yeah great catch indeed and an important wicket to take. Anyway...10 days in Barcelona awaits me later so best finish my packing. Enjoy the rest of the session gents. Laters OK

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 6:24 am

That's equally sharp!

Bairstow's painful innings is ended.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Pal Joey on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 6:26 am

Two amazing caught & bowled! One from Lyon 0.86 sec and now Starc 0.56 of a second. A much faster strike.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 7:08 am

Highest partnership of the innings so far. Says a lot!

Although I've been impressed with how well Overton has settled.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 7:39 am

Breakthrough time. Relief for Australia.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by LivinginItaly on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:09 am

Terrible. Overton and Woakes performance just underlines how badly the batsmen have played. The problem is they don't seem capable of learning from their own, or colleagues, mistakes. So we appear to see the same type of performance time and time again.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:11 am

Duty281 wrote:Another silly shot, this time from Root. Australia have shown the merits of application and patience in both tests; England have displayed idiocy.

I hope the English seamers are paying attention to how their counterparts are pitching the ball up.

Trying to hit a half volley for four is now a silly shot? Poorly executed yes, but if you're not trying to hit balls like that for four, then you may as well pack up and go home now!
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:16 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Another silly shot, this time from Root. Australia have shown the merits of application and patience in both tests; England have displayed idiocy.

I hope the English seamers are paying attention to how their counterparts are pitching the ball up.

Trying to hit a half volley for four is now a silly shot? Poorly executed yes, but if you're not trying to hit balls like that for four, then you may as well pack up and go home now!

For the situation, yes.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:17 am

Woakes and Overton hanging around just hoghlighted how woefuly the batsmen capitulated. I always expected this to be a low scorer, and certainly England to be struggling to post over 300, but even then this is pretty low from England.
Its more than just an ability issue. The bowlers did have some bad luck and werent helped by a couple of fielding mishaps but the batsmen really seem to have let the pressure get to them and the bowling intimidate them. Its very reminiscent of the last tour, except that time around the bowlers were effective.
Its no good saying after the first day in bopth tests things looked pretty balanced...they had much better chances to win games on the previous tour, and its heading for more comprehensive defeats on this one already. I may be getting ahead of myself ( even on this test) Its hard to see past a whitewash now. Maybe the dressing room wont be as unhappy as it was with KP there but the end result is the same....the teams short on ability and not delivering what it has on the pitch.

Overtons made a mark which is great, but its nowhere near enough to make up for how flat the rest are. Moeen looks hampered by injury (some talk of his side strain as well as the finger), Woakes and Cook are way off their best, Bairstows lost at 7 coming in after the horse has bolted the new batsmen just arent that good. 

Woods not going to change that. Stokes would help and bring some fight to the side if nothing else, but his disasterous debut in NZ doesnt suggest hes ready to jump in even if he gets the all clear. Mason Crane never should have toured in the first place and chucking him into the side could be grossly unfair.... although he is the only real wild card england have left to play just to try something for the upcoming tests (more likely when 4-0 down already with Stokes back)

Theres no cavalry waiting. Short on quality, short on options and now short on morale. To win a test from here would be a big surprise.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:42 am

Agree with that. OK

Overton now the top run scorer for his side on debut, as well as the top wicket-taker.

Broad goes. Sad to see his sharp decline as a batsman. I remember his brilliant century against Pakistan seven and a half years ago.

I doubt Smith will enforce the follow-on if it's available.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:51 am

227 all out. A shame that Overton couldn't get a well-deserved half-century.

Australia have outplayed England. Now for the psychological mauling, as Australia will want to rack up some swift runs.

For England to win (oh stop laughing), they'll need to bowl out the Australians for below 100.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:55 am

England bowled out for 227 but Australia do not enforce the follow-on.

From that innings more than half the wickets were given away meekly to balls they had no need to play..The fact that the tail put on more runs than most of the top order batsmen says it all. It was a perfectly good pitch to bat on if sensible but not enough common sense was used when batting.

Credit to debutant Overton for a gutsy knock and three wickets as well. England's best player so far in this match.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:10 am

Amazing that pitching the ball up with the new ball gets wickets and opportunities...if only Anderson/Broad did this on day one...
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:11 am

After a stupid waste of a review, Anderson gets an early wicket. 5/1.

The new ball bowlers getting movement after - yes - pitching the bloody thing up!

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:30 am

this test has gone already but it would be nice to see a bit of fight and a better bowling performance from england in this second innings. dont want to roll over in a 5-0 and we get a couple of cheap wickets now will at least put some doubt in the following tests

good decision by aus to bat again, mainly so i can get some warner points in the prediction game Laugh

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:31 am

also with khawaja in i would give ali a early bowl. bad finger or not

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:16 am

Yeah it does seem theyve decided to bowl anderson into retirement (granted the aussies seem tro be really struggling against him right now) than put Moeen on

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:22 am

well its worked. ball is really swinging for anderson. only problem being is Australias 300 lead and it will do the same for their bowlers tomorrow

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:23 am

Ha well Root 1 Armchair Experts 0 as Anderson gets the wicket in his 10th over. 

Australias best two batsmen in together now. Oh well.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:25 am

round the wicket to smith with the ball swinging? andersons style to right handers not good enough. only got the 500

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:30 am

Gooseberry wrote:Ha well Root 1 Armchair Experts 0 as Anderson gets the wicket in his 10th over. 

Australias best two batsmen in together now. Oh well.

This Armchair Viewer (note Viewer, not Expert) would still like to know why Anderson can bowl 10 on the reel here but went out of the attack at Brisbane after only about 4 overs when they were 6 down and some way behind.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:31 am

guessing because it wasnt swinging like now. very tough getting the ball off jimmy when its moving

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:34 am

Has there ever been a bigger idiot in any walk of life than Swann?

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:34 am

compelling and rich wrote:round the wicket to smith with the ball swinging? andersons style to right handers not good enough. only got the 500

nearly worked! difficult getting a lbw from that angle though

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:35 am

how is that pitching outside leg??? its pitched on the line with it!

we're not getting any breaks this series no matter how badly we've played - all the marginal stuff has gone their way...
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:38 am

guildfordbat wrote:Has there ever been a bigger idiot in any walk of life than Swann?

awful awful commentator ain't he
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:42 am

compelling and rich wrote:guessing because it wasnt swinging like now. very tough getting the ball off jimmy when its moving

Yep but the best bowlers (or their captain) can't always expect to bowl in the best conditions. I don't know why (there may be a good reason but it hasn't been supplied) but him going missing with the ball at Brisbane did us no favours.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:48 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:how is that pitching outside leg??? its pitched on the line with it!

we're not getting any breaks this series no matter how badly we've played - all the marginal stuff has gone their way...

that was a tight one! nice of woakes to join the party

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:49 am

Woakes's Ashes have begun
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:52 am

BT comms talking like England won't be bowled out for 160 in the 4th innings, but its still nice to see some fight today at least
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by compelling and rich on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:55 am

id be surprised if we could chase the 267 it is now. our batting is far too fragile.

strange choice to bat again though

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:09 am

The test match is lost already but good to see a bit of heart and fight from England with the ball. A great shame that the batsmen couldn't have done the same earlier today.

My guess is Australia will declare on around 200 for 7 at dinner tomorrow.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by No name Bertie on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:14 am

Batting again seemed like a sensible decision by Australia. Their bowlers were looking a little tired as judged by England's tail wagging. No point risking injury to the bowlers when there are 3 more tests to play as well as being in an overwhelming position in this test. Predicting when the ball is going to swing is an art rather than a science - this was a surprise - but still to bat again was probably the correct decision. It is unlikely to swing again tomorrow except for the night conditions which is when England will likely be batting again.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:18 am

No name Bertie wrote:Batting again seemed like a sensible decision by Australia.  Their bowlers were looking a little tired as judged by England's tail wagging.   No point risking injury to the bowlers when there are 3 more tests to play as well as being in an overwhelming position in this test.   Predicting when the ball is going to swing is an art rather than a science - this was a surprise - but still to bat again was probably the correct decision.  It is unlikely to swing again tomorrow except for the night conditions which is when England will likely be batting again.

Completely agree with this Bertie. Aussies will likely get the same exact conditions tomorrow night, and the pitch will be a day older for Lyon too.

England could take 6 wickets for no runs tomorrow and they’d already have enough runs too
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:08 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Woakes's Ashes have begun

Yep, he came to the party today. Important he stays.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by alfie on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:08 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Ha well Root 1 Armchair Experts 0 as Anderson gets the wicket in his 10th over. 

Australias best two batsmen in together now. Oh well.

This Armchair Viewer (note Viewer, not Expert) would still like to know why Anderson can bowl 10 on the reel here but went out of the attack at Brisbane after only about 4 overs when they were 6 down and some way behind.

Indeed. One of the Great Mysteries of this tour : along with picking Ball ahead of Overton in Brisbane and bowling first here...

I am a little concerned Root and Bayliss have got a few too many plans set up in advance ...sometimes you have to seize the moment and I'm not sure young Joe is ready to do so. I look back at that West Indies match when Stokes hardly bowled as England fell to a shock defeat ; and I really hope this apparently more instinctive attack is a sign of things to come.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by alfie on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:20 pm

Eventful day.

Still a mile behind in the game but it is good to see England at least playing like a team that hasn't given up. They need to take the same attitude out when they bat again.

Overwhelming likelihood Australia will win ; but imperative England go down fighting which would at least help keep them up for the trip to Perth.(Yeah I know Australia always win there ...except they don't : ask South Africa - and even India ! England has had a rotten time there for ages but you can't go in assuming everything stays the same)

Uphill all the way from here whether its 1 down or two ; but I still don't think the gap between the sides is insurmountable . Maybe it will be a whitewash anyway ; but at the moment I'm seeing more fight than four years ago. Anyway I'm hoping somehow to see the series still alive or I will feel my tickets for the MCG Test are grossly overpriced Smile


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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by sirfredperry on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:49 pm

One of the reasons the follow-on is so rarely enforced these days is the decision to scrap rest days. In olden times, a side would, say, make 500, bowl the other lot out towards the end of the third day for, say, less than 300 and put them in again knowing that a rest day/Sunday would follow.
   Also pitches - covered of course -  last so much better these days. I reckon Australia have probably got enough runs already. But I bet Cook and company were glad they didn't have to bat again tonight.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 12:57 pm

As I was just saying Englands seam bowlers are lethal in tehse conditrions and could easily pull England back in to contention not only in this match but the series. Whistle

Joking aside a win still looks a long way but heck...why didnt that happen on day 1!

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 1:07 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
No name Bertie wrote:Batting again seemed like a sensible decision by Australia.  Their bowlers were looking a little tired as judged by England's tail wagging.   No point risking injury to the bowlers when there are 3 more tests to play as well as being in an overwhelming position in this test.   Predicting when the ball is going to swing is an art rather than a science - this was a surprise - but still to bat again was probably the correct decision.  It is unlikely to swing again tomorrow except for the night conditions which is when England will likely be batting again.

Completely agree with this Bertie. Aussies will likely get the same exact conditions tomorrow night, and the pitch will be a day older for Lyon too.

England could take 6 wickets for no runs tomorrow and they’d already have enough runs too


Id agree. Added to that they will want to flog Anderson and Broad knowing that they will have to get rested at some point in the series. Australia were already talking about the when not if they would rest Starc and Cummins, so beyond just this game (which they are still huge favourites to win) it was sensible to put as much pressure on the England bowlers as they could and as little on their own as possible. Andersons already bowled 41 overs in the match. Moeen not having bowled is almost certainly down to them trying to manage his injuries, and the longer the innings goes on the more difficult it will be to leave him out.
On the balance of evidence so far this mini collapse didnt look very likely, and even though its happened its still little more than a morale booster for England. Aus should still expect to land on a lead of well over 300 ...which England have little to no chance of chasing down.
The collapse could have happened batting fourth every bit as much as it has 3rd, and if Aus had been facing a target then the stress of that may have been a factor. Flogging their own tired 4 man attack to me was a much bigger risk for this game and the series than not enforcing the follow on has been, even if its not worked out quite how they wouldve wanted or predicted.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 1:41 pm

No name Bertie wrote:Batting again seemed like a sensible decision by Australia.  Their bowlers were looking a little tired as judged by England's tail wagging.   No point risking injury to the bowlers when there are 3 more tests to play as well as being in an overwhelming position in this test.   Predicting when the ball is going to swing is an art rather than a science - this was a surprise - but still to bat again was probably the correct decision.  It is unlikely to swing again tomorrow except for the night conditions which is when England will likely be batting again.

Hi Bertie - I'm old school and so virtually always one of the ''enforce the follow on'' brigade. That's what I would have been inclined to do in Smith's position but I didn't feel as strongly about it as normal.

Usual reasons for enforcing plus the potential extra advantage of bowling under lights. I take your point that doesn't come with any guarantees for the bowlers but we didn't look too clever batting under them on day 2. Also, Starc, Hazlewood and Cummins had respectively only bowled 15, 12 and 16 overs today. Assuming all are ok (see below), that's not too much of a stretch and all should have had more left in the tank. Anyway, you don't get tired if you are taking wickets and can put your feet up for a few days as soon as you've got 20 - told you I was old school! Very Happy

That said, I can understand if Smith was influenced by the length of the Woakes / Overton partnership (as Ponting suggested on tv) and that tipped his decision. Also and unlike Smith, as viewers we don't know if there are any fitness issues with his bowling foursome.

As I say, not what I would have planned on doing but that doesn't mean it was wrong. It certainly shouldn't be judged on nothing but hindsight. In any case, I doubt it'll be decisive to the eventual result.

Much as those 4 wickets raised England's spirits, Australia are still in a mighty fine position. The game didn't move on the day as much I thought it might but it still went in the hosts' favour.


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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by jimbohammers on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 1:56 pm

Well we've given ourselves a small (very small) chance.
Good effort by Woakes and Anderson. Woakes getting the 2 big wickets. Who knows if we bowl them out for 120ish....

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 2:13 pm

jimbohammers wrote:Well we've given ourselves a small (very small) chance.
Good effort by Woakes and Anderson. Woakes getting the 2 big wickets. Who knows if we bowl them out for 120ish....

Jimbo - yeah ... but ... if we bowl them all out for 120, we would still need to make 336.

From reading cricinfo just now, our highest ever successful run chase against any opposition was 332 against Australia in Melbourne almost ninety years ago.

Ok, history can be made as well as followed but ... well, you know. Wink

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

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