The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

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The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by The Loaded Dog on Fri 01 Dec 2017, 7:10 am

First topic message reminder :

2nd Test Adelaide, December 2-6, 2017

Australia:
Bancroft, Warner, Khawaja, Smith *, Handscomb, S Marsh, Paine †, Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood

England:
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root *, Malan, Ali, Bairstow †, Woakes, Overton, Broad, Anderson



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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 4:23 pm

England moving from the realm of ‘humiliation’ to somewhere approaching ‘heroic defeat’.

They bowled much better in the start of the second innings than in the first, when their plans were garbage.

Australia will be looking for the lead to pass 350 before they can truly relax.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by wisden on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 5:51 pm

I think they only need 40 more and they will be safe, we wont chase 300 no chance

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 5:56 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:The test match is lost already but good to see a bit of heart and fight from England with the ball. A great shame that the batsmen couldn't have done the same earlier today.

My guess is Australia will declare on around 200 for 7 at dinner tomorrow.

Hi Craig - assuming we don't bowl Australia out, I would expect Smith to pull the plug before that. As Duty and history suggest, a total of 135 for a lead of 350 should be ample. Also, Smith should avoid giving Cook and Stoneman 40 minutes over dinner to prepare for their second dig. Keep them thinking and just give them 10 minutes to prepare by declaring during a session.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 6:14 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:The test match is lost already but good to see a bit of heart and fight from England with the ball. A great shame that the batsmen couldn't have done the same earlier today.

My guess is Australia will declare on around 200 for 7 at dinner tomorrow.

Hi Craig - assuming we don't bowl Australia out, I would expect Smith to pull the plug before that. As Duty and history suggest, a total of 135 for a lead of 350 should be ample. Also, Smith should avoid giving Cook and Stoneman 40 minutes over dinner to prepare for their second dig. Keep them thinking and just give them 10 minutes to prepare by declaring during a session.

Perhaps. However, it would make more sense to bat through to the night session. Give his bowlers maximum rest and set them loose for the night session where they could be in a position of having England four or five wickets down by close.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 6:29 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
...

Perhaps. However, it would make more sense to bat through to the night session. Give his bowlers maximum rest and set them loose for the night session where they could be in a position of having England four or five wickets down by close.

Not to me but as always a game of opinions.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 6:53 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
...

Perhaps. However, it would make more sense to bat through to the night session. Give his bowlers maximum rest and set them loose for the night session where they could be in a position of having England four or five wickets down by close.

Not to me but as always a game of opinions.

Well it is unimportant. To me just now it is all about Australia deciding how they want to win from here.

England's batsmen tonight should be very disappointed. Vince, Cook, Root, Ali and Broad all got out playing at balls that posed no danger to them. Very bad. Woakes and Overton's stand demonstrated what was possible on that pitch with a little application and discipline. If only they had batted sensibly the match may not already be lost.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by jimbohammers on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:07 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
jimbohammers wrote:Well we've given ourselves a small (very small) chance.
Good effort by Woakes and Anderson. Woakes getting the 2 big wickets. Who knows if we bowl them out for 120ish....

Jimbo - yeah ... but ... if we bowl them all out for 120, we would still need to make 336.

From reading cricinfo just now, our highest ever successful run chase against any opposition was 332 against Australia in Melbourne almost ninety years ago.

Ok, history can be made as well as followed but ... well, you know. Wink

Yeah, maybe i am being a little too hopeful!

You never know... With Smith and Warner out already and a 'nightwatchman' in (still called a nightwatchman in day-night tests?) A couple of early wickets tomorrow might have them a bit worried

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:13 pm

Cheers, Jimbo. Nothing wrong with being hopeful as long as you don't put your wages on it! Wink

What you say is certainly true but Australia effectively already have runs on the board and I can still someone - Starc has been biding his time so far - getting some runs before they fold.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by KP_fan on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 8:30 pm

Day 3 observations:

-->There was an inevitability about the Eng inning today.....they kept falling to pacers and to Lyon who found a lot of spin and bounce like T1.... almost like spinners get on Indian and Lankan& BD pitches

-->Eng's top order was always flaky and the big inning from Cook & Root hasn't come though Root has barely a 50...the difference is lower order bailouts of Bairstow, Stokes and Ali in the form of 100s aren't coming.....
Woakes, Ali and Bairstow are getting barely 20s and 30s and that too by chancing the arm

Bairstow should be batting higher, hopelessness creeps into his batting by the time he comes out....
And not just above Ali but at No. 5 atleast...and if Eng are willing to be positive and Bairstow at 4 and Root moves to 3.....put the best 3 batters in top 4 and let them set the game batting positively.
Malan, Vince types can bat  lower down& will probably perform better not carrying the expectation of setting the inning.

--> Eng's seamers did find the "English conditions" in last session and made the ball talk.....BUT I have a feeling Aus has enough resources to get the lead upto 400 and then Eng's top order will have to bat the last session under light and seam movement tomm...unless they get lucky like first inning when better part of this session was wiped out by rain

--> Carrying on the discussion on Overton....well he took most wickets and tops scored with the bat so you can't doubt his utility....but that wasn't  the point.
The point being....Eng needs their bowling composition to contain about two bowlers who can hit 140kph and bend their backs and dig it in....not feeling the need to preserve their bodies nor fearing a break down

Overton is certainly not that bowler.......Ball and Broad are the closet who fit that *dig it in at 140kph criteria*

Now if Overton is deemed useful he should play in place of a less useful player like Malan, Ali or Woakes.

Barring a Miracle or BIG patch of rain this game is gone...and in remaining 3 tests only positive batting contributions by Root, Cook and Bairstow
and aggressive pace bowling can make Eng compete better
and if they had Rashid he too would have contributed far more with ball and  not much less with bat than Ali under the conditions
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by alfie on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:32 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:The test match is lost already but good to see a bit of heart and fight from England with the ball. A great shame that the batsmen couldn't have done the same earlier today.

My guess is Australia will declare on around 200 for 7 at dinner tomorrow.

Hi Craig - assuming we don't bowl Australia out, I would expect Smith to pull the plug before that. As Duty and history suggest, a total of 135 for a lead of 350 should be ample. Also, Smith should avoid giving Cook and Stoneman 40 minutes over dinner to prepare for their second dig. Keep them thinking and just give them 10 minutes to prepare by declaring during a session.

I'd agree a lead of 350 should be plenty.  But (if he is in a position to decide) I'd be surprised if Smith quit with that :  Given that if they don't get bowled out Australia  should have that lead early-mid afternoon I'd expect him to push on to 400 "just in case"  :  imagine calling them in at 350 in front with 145 overs to go and then seeing the pitch flatten right out and the openers put up 100 odd...
Might not be likely but most captains tend to err on the side of caution these days. Look at the savaging Root got for declaring a few overs early and losing the West Indies .

Hopefully academic : would be nice to see England bowl them out ; would at least be good for morale even if one suspects a viable run chase is already out of reach.


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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by alfie on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 9:42 pm

CaledonianCraig wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
...

Perhaps. However, it would make more sense to bat through to the night session. Give his bowlers maximum rest and set them loose for the night session where they could be in a position of having England four or five wickets down by close.

Not to me but as always a game of opinions.

Well it is unimportant. To me just now it is all about Australia deciding how they want to win from here.

England's batsmen tonight should be very disappointed. Vince, Cook, Root, Ali and Broad all got out playing at balls that posed no danger to them. Very bad. Woakes and Overton's stand demonstrated what was possible on that pitch with a little application and discipline. If only they had batted sensibly the match may not already be lost.

Agreed. Odd , too : after their patient first day in Brisbane (which so nearly worked) , England seem to have abandoned the extremely cautious , measured approach that Australia's batsmen have been employing to such good effect in both games. Not as if they aren't capable of playing long innings ; and the home team's pacemen , good as they are , don't look unplayable - at least on these pitches.(Ask Woakes and Overton) Lyon seems actually the most constant threat...and presumably will be over the rest of this match.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by guildfordbat on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 10:55 pm

alfie wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:The test match is lost already but good to see a bit of heart and fight from England with the ball. A great shame that the batsmen couldn't have done the same earlier today.

My guess is Australia will declare on around 200 for 7 at dinner tomorrow.

Hi Craig - assuming we don't bowl Australia out, I would expect Smith to pull the plug before that. As Duty and history suggest, a total of 135 for a lead of 350 should be ample. Also, Smith should avoid giving Cook and Stoneman 40 minutes over dinner to prepare for their second dig. Keep them thinking and just give them 10 minutes to prepare by declaring during a session.

I'd agree a lead of 350 should be plenty.  But (if he is in a position to decide) I'd be surprised if Smith quit with that :  Given that if they don't get bowled out Australia  should have that lead early-mid afternoon I'd expect him to push on to 400 "just in case"  :  imagine calling them in at 350 in front with 145 overs to go and then seeing the pitch flatten right out and the openers put up 100 odd...
Might not be likely but most captains tend to err on the side of caution these days. Look at the savaging Root got for declaring a few overs early and losing the West Indies .

Hopefully academic : would be nice to see England bowl them out ; would at least be good for morale even if one suspects a viable run chase is already out of reach.

Cheers, Alfie. A savaging would probably also come Smith's way if he batted two full sessions and it then rained throughout the third! Wink As we well know, you can't plan everything on what the weather might do but still maybe worth keeping in mind. Serious question, do you know the forecast?

That said and asked, my main point was for Smith to declare (assuming he has the option), regardless of the actual lead, during a session and not at the start of the dinner break. That way he restricts Cook and Stoneman to a mere 10 minutes to prepare for their knock rather than the 40 minutes they would have over dinner. That's certainly the Surrey thinking on declarations. I freely admit I'm influenced by my man there. However, it's a view he regularly and strongly advances and, with more experience than me as a Test and County opener, convincingly so. Smile

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Mon 04 Dec 2017, 11:26 pm


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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 3:06 am

Another day of test cricket in a foreign land. Another home game for England.

Tremendous support.

Wicket off the 3rd ball chalked off after a DRS review.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 3:45 am

Ball moving quite a bit. Anderson has snaffled two this morning: Lyon (who didn't want to be there) and Handscomb (who didn't know how to bat).

This test could be over today. I don't hold much hope for England's batting in these conditions!

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 3:50 am

The test was lost in the first two innings. Regardless of how quick England bowl the Aussies out or when Australia choose to declare. Wrong lengths by England bowlers in the first innings and their batsmen handing their wickets away too cheaply.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 5:31 am

England have chipped away, and will require a monumental 354 to shock the cricketing world and steal the momentum in the series.

They've recovered a lot of pride after that innings, Anderson in particular exploited the conditions excellently, so it's important they don't bin that by folding limply.

Application and patience.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 5:33 am

Australia bowled out for 138. A five wicket haul for Anderson (his first Down Under) but all to no avail me thinks. England set a target of 350+.

The test is lost but for me the interest is in how the England batsmen apply themselves second time around. Bat with patience and gumption and score 250+ then they can take heart going into the next test.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by LivinginItaly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 5:55 am

Exactly, I think England will almost certainly lose as they are chasing about 100 too much, but here they have the chance to try and regain some pride and confidence for the rest of the series. I think we will be all out for about 240 sometime in the second session tomorrow

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 5:56 am

I'll be a little more pessimistic and say all out for 170-180.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 6:05 am

Should be one down, but the umpire doesn't give it and Smith doesn't review.

Looked stone dead to me (and Hazlewood!) in real time.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 6:25 am

36-0 off 8 overs. Wow!

Surely Lyon will be summoned soon?

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 6:49 am

If these two get the total below 300 then Ill accept it as a glimmer of hope.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 7:03 am

50 partnership up! Ball not doing a lot, although Stoneman nearly chopped on a moment ago and Lyon is looking threatening...and of course, the tricky hours under lights are just around the corner.

Now a drop in the field (very difficult chance)!

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 7:15 am

Cook departs to the dangerous Lyon after a successful DRS.

Normality returned.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 7:32 am

Now Stoneman goes. That was tame, but I think he was becoming frustrated by the lack of runs.

54/2. England's very slim hopes are receding ever further.

Captain's knock?

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:26 am

Duty281 wrote:England have chipped away, and will require a monumental 354 to shock the cricketing world and steal the momentum in the series.

They've recovered a lot of pride after that innings, Anderson in particular exploited the conditions excellently, so it's important they don't bin that by folding limply.

Application and patience.

Yes it was good to see the bowlers respond in that second innings - but you can't help wondering, why didn't they bowl like that in the morning session on day 1!!

No way England get close here - but it would be good for Root/Bairstow to get some runs and show some form. If we are to win a game, we're going to need them to score heavily, especially seeing as Cook is evidently horribly out of touch.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:46 am

For me it is all about how England go down. Scuttled out for less than 200 then they cannot take much hooe or confidence from that. Reaching 250+ would offer encouragement and show Australia there is still a modicum of spirit and fight in them.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:52 am

You know, it's like a completely different pitch. Not many demons, although Lyon is extracting some good turn. England getting the rub of the green at the moment.

Scoring is quite easy, presently.

91/2.

Ah, Vince gifts his wicket again. He's not a test match three.

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:54 am

James Vince out caught at slip driving? Imagine my surprise...
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:54 am

And Vince hands away another wicket. Driving at a wide delivery. Another giveaway.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:55 am

England now 91 for 3. Whisper it quietly but this could still end today.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 8:58 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:And Vince hands away another wicket. Driving at a wide delivery. Another giveaway.

Ball was there for the drive...just didn't move his feet and thus, was poorly executed.

I've taken the 5/4 Paddy Power were offering to England to be all out for less than 225.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:02 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:And Vince hands away another wicket. Driving at a wide delivery. Another giveaway.

Ball was there for the drive...just didn't move his feet and thus, was poorly executed.

I've taken the 5/4 Paddy Power were offering to England to be all out for less than 225.

It was a wide delivery with no danger to the wicket and he turned it into a wicket-taking delivery. That is my take on it. Good bet. Can't see England reaching 200 myself.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Duty281 on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:08 am

Root has a successful review; Vaughan thinks it's a McGrath-treading-on-a-stray-ball series turner!

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:08 am

Yet another poor umpiring decision
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:09 am

Duty281 wrote:Root has a successful review; Vaughan thinks it's a McGrath-treading-on-a-stray-ball series turner!

Vaughan gave some really good analysis of Root's drive from a few overs ago, and his dismissal first innings which makes you think he could be really good - then he just blurts out crap like that and you're reminded he's not...
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:12 am

Ricky Ponting is very good. Level-headed and fair.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:23 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Yet another poor umpiring decision

7 successful reviews in this match so far. Dar and Gaffney really having poor games
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:27 am

jeez what a delivery that is from Cummins
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:27 am

And Root survives another review.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:30 am

And straight away another review against Malan. Not out and Australia lose their last review. 108 for 3.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:50 am

England 117 for 3 at final drinks session. England need 237 more runs or more realistically Australia need 7 wickets with 20 overs left today.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:54 am

Back-to-back boundaries for Root takes him onto 45. England 125 for 3.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:57 am

Malan on survival mode here. Cannot score for love nor money. He is 8 and getting peppered. You feel he has to find a solution or he will be out very soon.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 9:59 am

Lyon back into the attack.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:00 am

Mslan dropped at slip by Smith.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:06 am

A dab through the slips by Root brings up his 50. England 134 for 3.
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by CaledonianCraig on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:12 am

50 partnership up for England. England 145 for 3.
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CaledonianCraig

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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Tue 05 Dec 2017, 10:13 am

Oh god I'm allowing myself to believe...the hope...it's going to kill me
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Re: The Ashes: 2nd Test, Adelaide

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