The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

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The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Pal Joey on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 7:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

3rd Test Perth, December 14-18, 2017

Australia:
Bancroft, Warner, Khawaja, Smith *, S Marsh, M Marsh, Paine †, Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood

England:
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root *, Malan, Bairstow †, Ali, Woakes, Overton, Broad, Anderson

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by No name Bertie on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 9:24 am

I think it was off a ball from Woakes Root completely didn't react to a catch chance.  So Woakes deserved that wicket.  Problem for England is that it looks like there is a strong possibility Overton is out for the rest of the test in terms of as a bowling threat.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by eirebilly on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 9:25 am

Trebs left me some power, Sorry LD Very Happy
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 9:30 am

I already know you have the power. It's worked before!

Overton back on.... or did Jamie fly in late last night? Whistle

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by alfie on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 9:48 am

Running out of time to take another wicket tonight...

If Australia go in just three down I do fear for England tomorrow. The pitch should be at its best for batting and the new ball is a way off yet. Could see the Aussies getting a decent lead by the close on Saturday ; and that will really put the pressure on an England batting lineup that is ...shall we say , a bit fragile at times ?

Broad back : but he's bowling very poorly ...not sure whats wrong with him today but he's been the Weakest Link.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 9:57 am

Broad has been the most disappointing bowler this tour for me - had a fine first innings in Brisbane but other than that has been bowling rubbish.

Moeen is at least holding up an end this innings and keeping it fairly tight. No spin in this pitch so far
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by alfie on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 10:00 am

Chance missed ...would have been a bit freaky , rebound from Stoneman's boot...but he and YJB impeded each other.

Not getting the little breaks still...bowling has been solid ; but a couple of missed chances mean they're looking down the barrel on day three...

Need to persuade the Aussies to do a typical English collapse in the morning Smile

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 10:04 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Broad has been the most disappointing bowler this tour for me - had a fine first innings in Brisbane but other than that has been bowling rubbish.

Moeen is at least holding up an end this innings and keeping it fairly tight. No spin in this pitch so far

Bowling average of 42 in this series so far for Broad.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by alfie on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 10:06 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Broad has been the most disappointing bowler this tour for me - had a fine first innings in Brisbane but other than that has been bowling rubbish.

Moeen is at least holding up an end this innings and keeping it fairly tight. No spin in this pitch so far

Odd the way Broad has gone off ... Wonder if he has some minor injury we don't know about ?

So all very neat : 305 runs day one ; 301 day two.

So stumps tomorrow Australia will lead by about 100 - assuming they don't have a collapse. From being in a handy position , England are playing catch up again. Very disappointing.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 10:13 am

Australia's day, very disappointing as Alfie said that England didn't press home their good first day. But, Australia are still 200 runs behind, and have Mitch Marsh/Paine next in. *If* England can get Smith early tomorrow, they still have a chance of coming away with a first innings lead.

Of course, it looks like Smith is going to be batting come this time tomorrow...
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by guildfordbat on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 10:33 am

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Broad has been the most disappointing bowler this tour for me - had a fine first innings in Brisbane but other than that has been bowling rubbish.

Moeen is at least holding up an end this innings and keeping it fairly tight. No spin in this pitch so far

Odd the way Broad has gone off ...  Wonder if he has some minor injury we don't know about ?  

So all very neat : 305 runs day one ; 301 day two.

So stumps tomorrow Australia will lead by about 100 - assuming they don't have a collapse.   From being in a handy position , England are playing catch up again.  Very disappointing.

Hi Alfie and all - yeah, I was thinking along similar lines. If not exactly playing catch up yet, we are trying to hold them back. From the apparent strength of 368/4, that is certainly very disappointing.

I suppose not all is lost yet. If we can get Smith early on day 3, we could still end up with a useful lead. However, that's a big ''if''. Should Overton be crocked and we don't rattle through them, being a bowler down will be a major problem. All in all, not looking great. Disappointing as well that we now seem to be hoping for rain on days 4 and 5 rather than fearing it as we were yesterday.

Finally, a word of support for Boycs on commentary (if only because he said what I was posting during the second Test Wink ). He made the point that whilst he keeps hearing that Starc is a bit wayward and expensive, he (Starc) is continuing to take wickets and at a good average - 4 at under 25 each in our first dig here. It's the end column that matters the most for a fast man and unreasonable not to expect him to go for a few at times.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by alfie on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 10:43 am

No , not all lost yet. But I'm inclining to pessimism now after looking on the bright side for a while...chiefly because I don't really trust the batsmen to have the solid second innings that ought to be possible on this generally predictable , if quite lively , pitch.
Whether England lead by fifty or trail by 100 they will need to have a proper second innings : after that collapse this morning I am not sure they are capable of it ? Really need the experienced players to step up
But Cook is having a mare and Root is showing alarming signs that the weight of captaincy has taken his edge already...

I don't think this pitch will deteriorate much so the logical result is a draw . But a second innings like Brisbane would likely leave Australia with a fairly easy target : and if Overton is crocked the remaining bowlers are likely to be a bit weary by the time their work is done tomorrow. I wish I could believe they would then be able to put their feet up for five sessions...

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 10:56 am

alfie wrote:
But Cook is having a mare and Root is showing alarming signs that the weight of captaincy has taken his edge already...


The 405 was the highest total England have made with both of them playing and neither getting a 50; the next best was 365.
So you could argue that they are actually finaly getting over their reliance on these two. Its also good to see Overton troubling batsmen and bowling with confidence despite his pedistrian pace. Its not been the established old guard delivering so far in this test, if the likes of Cook Root Anderson and Broad can find somewhere near what they are capable of again then the side will suddenlyt look very competitive.

(Its a pretty weak way to look for positives though Laugh )


Tbh the only two things that havent been all too predcitable in this test so far were England players actually getting centuries and Kwjkalkjasjlka surviving more than 2 balls of spin. The optimisim that was there when Malan and Bairstow had seen off the new ball seems a long way off. Much like the last tour it seems England are capable of winning sessions and days ...only to chuck it away with sudden collapses, and this time Smiths batting is strong enough to carry his team and make the England bowlers look as average as they are.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 12:16 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Broad has been the most disappointing bowler this tour for me - had a fine first innings in Brisbane but other than that has been bowling rubbish.

Moeen is at least holding up an end this innings and keeping it fairly tight. No spin in this pitch so far

Not fair at all, that. Certainly bowled better than Mo, and he’s at least stuck to discipline for most points.

You know who has disappointed me most this series, well other than Ali.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 12:17 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Broad has been the most disappointing bowler this tour for me - had a fine first innings in Brisbane but other than that has been bowling rubbish.

Moeen is at least holding up an end this innings and keeping it fairly tight. No spin in this pitch so far

Not fair at all, that. Certainly bowled better than Mo, and he’s at least stuck to discipline for most points.

You know who has disappointed me most this series, well other than Cook and Ali.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 1:39 pm

We need to get away with this notion that ‘we bat deep’. In Bangladesh, India and Australia this supposed depth in batting has been shedded every time. Moeen Ali and Chris Woakes, lovely chaps that they are, aren’t all rounders. When we have Stokes, we can carry the likes of Moeen and Woakes but in home conditions. Neither Moeen or Woakes carry much threat with the ball away from England. And their batting isn’t offering much either.

Jonny Bairstow well played son, long over due 4th test century. But after nearly 50 tests his century count leaves a lot to be desired. I still feel Bairstow should be a pure batsman at number 4. He could easily average 50 as just a batsman.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:55 pm

Interesting that the Malan-Bairstow alliance was only the second time that England had created a new partnership record against Australia since the Second World War (Boycott-Knott merely equalled a record at Nottingham in 1977).
    Australia's partnership records against England are fairly long-standing too. Ironic that an England record has been created at a time when Eng have had one of their weakest and least-experienced batting line-ups in an Ashes series.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:05 pm

sirfredperry wrote:Interesting that the Malan-Bairstow alliance was only the second time that England had created a new partnership record against Australia since the Second World War (Boycott-Knott merely equalled a record at Nottingham in 1977).
    Australia's partnership records against England are fairly long-standing too. Ironic that an England record has been created at a time when Eng have had one of their weakest and least-experienced batting line-ups in an Ashes series.

Surely Cook/Trott broke records at Brisbane in 2010?
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by sirfredperry on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 5:00 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
sirfredperry wrote:Interesting that the Malan-Bairstow alliance was only the second time that England had created a new partnership record against Australia since the Second World War (Boycott-Knott merely equalled a record at Nottingham in 1977).
    Australia's partnership records against England are fairly long-standing too. Ironic that an England record has been created at a time when Eng have had one of their weakest and least-experienced batting line-ups in an Ashes series.

Surely Cook/Trott broke records at Brisbane in 2010?
Yeah, it was a big one but not as large as the Hutton-Leyland 2nd wicket stand of 382 at The Oval in 1938. Bairstow, of course, has an England partnership record with Stokes of 399 against SA in Cape Town in 2016.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by jimbohammers on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 5:08 pm

Get Smith early tomorrow and then we're into the likes of Mitch Marsh and Tim Paine. Easier said than done but we still have a chance of being on top going into the 2nd innings.

(Now put that drink down...)

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 6:18 pm

Well England's one advantage is that they have the runs on the board and, if they get Smith early tomorrow, they may well squeeze out a small/decent lead.

Only trouble with that is that Smith has looked wholly unflustered, cruising to 92 as though he's batting in the nets. And only two England bowlers actually look anywhere near threatening!

There is rain on the horizon, but the forecast seems to indicate it being on Sunday evening/early Monday morning, so we may well still get a result out of this test.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by KP_fan on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 7:33 pm

my observtions....

--there are 2 ways of looking at this Eng inning...that their last 6 crashed for 30 odd failing to get to the commanding position that was within their reach

the flip side view.....from 130-4 they could have well crashes for 220odd...

My view 400+ batting first is a good score that Eng should accept gladly and not grudgingly

I saw criticism of Malan in some quarters....and that's totally uncalled for....he deserves praise and purely unconditional

criticism is due for Cook....batting on memories and History and Ali.....batting like a tail-ender and bowling worse than a club spinner might

-Bairstow did well as expected when moved up.....he has even more potential......although his weakness of playing around the line of straight / or incoming deliveries as I saw in his first game vs SA still exists...he has worked on it and Aus didn't do enough to exploit it

--The pitch is flattest in 3 tests so far....and there isn't even the normal turn for Lyon...so 400 is not a big score, Aus given the superior effectiveness of their lower order will finish +/-20 runs of the Eng total....more likely +20


--the game has moved fast...600 runs in two days and is heading towards a one inning shoot-out......like T1 where Eng blew up the 3rd inning making the 150 odd chase for Aus rather notional

--Eng must set 250+ to make a contest which even at 250 is just about even
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by alfie on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 11:57 pm

I guess the way this match - and the others , really - has swung around , it is risky to predict whether Australia make 550 or get bowled out south of 400.
But whichever end of that spectrum applies the real key will be whether or not England can make 300 plus when they bat again. At the scoring rates happening here there may be 800-900 more runs to be scored in this game so they'll need that many if they want to be on the right end of the result...

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 3:57 am

England bowling so negatively, and so without hope, this morning.

Smith in cruise control.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 4:35 am

314/4. Just too easy. Australia will have a sizeable lead by stumps at this rate. How many do you want, Smith?

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 6:47 am

Australia lead. Only four down. Truly awful effort from England today. There will be huge question marks over Root’s captaincy after this series is done.

Only the weather can save England now. Tomorrow looks to be a downpour, but day five doesn’t look too bad.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by KP_fan on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 7:26 am

Ohh Boy just woke up to see Eng are heading towards an ining mauling
This is defying even my high expectation from aus
Mitch Marsh has whacked a 130 ball 100 as Eng's bowlers preserve themselves for another day bowling 130kph

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by No name Bertie on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 7:58 am

No name Bertie wrote:So England bowled out before Lunch on the second day.  Australia now must be aiming for a big first innings - say 686 declare, then hope to bowl England out for less than 270.
This was sort of my prediction although I had it down as an aim. And before the start of the third test most gave England little to no chance of winning at the Waca - a wicket very suited to the Australians.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:07 am

Double ton for Smith. Marvellous.

201 more to overhaul Lara!

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by KP_fan on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:12 am

Mitch Marsh has increased his test match career run count by ~20% so far
In this single inning of 22 test and 36 inning long career
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by No name Bertie on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:13 am

Steve Smith reaches 200 clap
And the second new ball is 47 overs old - so not much of a threat in the hands of the medium-fast bowlers.   Moeen and Root bowling.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by eirebilly on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:26 am

You cant help but admire the Aussies application here. They just seem much stronger mentally than their English counterparts.

At this stage it really has become about rain saving this test match for England and keeping the series alive until the boxing day test.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Just John on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:39 am

The draw just delays the inevitable. Been completely and, unsurprisingly, outclassed. Time to move on.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by No name Bertie on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:51 am

It's been reported that Overton has a cracked rib since yesterday. He is still bowling but hasn't added to his wicket haul of two.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 8:52 am

Quite impressive to go from 360-4 to almost inevitable defeat within 5 sessions
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by VTR on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:00 am

Why is anyone surprised by this? England come on a tour and are deliberately denied any meaningful game time outside the Tests. The whole thing is designed to be a whitewash. Yes, it's poor today, but it's made nearly impossible for the touring side to compete. Let's have three Test series in the future, unless anyone is really going to be entertained by a demotivated team being slaughtered in two further Tests

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by VTR on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:03 am

And just for balance, the Aussies will no doubt face five versions of Trent Bridge/Edgbaston from 2015 next time they are over here, plus some games against County junior sides. The whole thing has got to be overhauled or Test cricket will die out

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:03 am

Bunch of morons singing about the war or Dawid Malan serving up 50mph lobs - I don’t know what the greatest humiliation is.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by No name Bertie on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:09 am

No acceleration in the runs rate - it has decelerated.   Malan is not bowling badly - only 4 runs scored off his three overs.  Malan and Anderson bowling.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:27 am

VTR wrote:Why is anyone surprised by this? England come on a tour and are deliberately denied any meaningful game time outside the Tests. The whole thing is designed to be a whitewash. Yes, it's poor today, but it's made nearly impossible for the touring side to compete. Let's have three Test series in the future, unless anyone is really going to be entertained by a demotivated team being slaughtered in two further Tests

Well this is the inherent problem test cricket faces now with the busy schedules and more one day cricket - not only are playing in conditions that hugely favour the home side, you have a little time or opposition to prepare against to at least attempt to acclimatise. And we do the same to touring sides over here, they'll usually get Northants 2nd XI for a three day game or two and then be expected to face Anderson with the swinging Duke in May!
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by KP_fan on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:35 am

KP_fan wrote:Mitch Marsh has increased his test match career run count by ~20% so far
In this single inning of 22 test and 36 inning long career

Now that 20% has increased to around 30% Shocked
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by eirebilly on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:42 am

In fairness lads, England are bowling on a very unresponsive track against (what I consider to be) the best test batsman in the world in his best form in Smith and Marsh is just riding on a high of confidence.

I think that the Aussies, as mentioned earlier, are simply stronger mentally. All credit to them for this performance. I would imagine that they will go for it in the first session, get a lead of 200-250 and declare. England can still see this to a draw if they apply themselves with the bat which should be very achievable on this track.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:42 am

KP_fan wrote:
KP_fan wrote:Mitch Marsh has increased his test match career run count by ~20% so far
In this single inning of 22 test and 36 inning long career

Now that 20% has increased to  around 30% Shocked

England playing a canny long game here - let Mitch Marsh get a score so big he will still be in the Aussie team come the next Ashes. Smart forward thinking
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by VTR on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:44 am

Agree Olly, it's diluting the product and people will lose interest. I don't buy that the Aussies are that much better than England. India are probably the only side that can compete in all conditions, but that cycle where they have a stupid amount of talent at the same time probably won't last

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:46 am

If the rain hits as expected, then England will likely escape with a draw, thus keeping their prospects of retaining the urn alive until Melbourne.

That’s about the only positive.

Wonder when the declaration comes? Overnight, or another couple of hours of batting?

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 9:50 am

Well at least we’ll soon have a third new ball to watch Anderson and Broad waste
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 10:03 am

Duty281 wrote:If the rain hits as expected, then England will likely escape with a draw, thus keeping their prospects of retaining the urn alive until Melbourne.

That’s about the only positive.

Wonder when the declaration comes? Overnight, or another couple of hours of batting?

Hi Duty and all - if the weather stays ok, I would fully expect Australia to bat on. Maybe look to get another 100 and the lead up to 250 before declaring - ideally from their point of view, the declaration coming late morning to give Cook and Stoneman an awkward 15 minutes before lunch.

As Billy suggested, not just clever batting from Smith and Mitchell Marsh but great application. Yeah, England's bowling was samey and unthreatening but the batters' concentration never wavered.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by guildfordbat on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 10:16 am

Btw, I know I've already been highly critical of BT Sport's coverage of this series but one person I haven't slaughtered nearly enough is their link man Matt Smith.

He's absolutely dreadful. As soon as England get into trouble, he keeps rabbiting on about how he hopes it'll rain. Even as an England supporter, I don't want rain. I want to see a fighting performance by England to save the game. More importantly, I don't give two figs as to what Smith's hopes are. I just want BT to serve up proper analysis of the match and without feeble banter.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 10:53 am

"Watching from side on our body language was good. We stuck at it, we just weren't quite good enough. We think we've done pretty well today."

Yes, the England assistant coach Farbrace just said that!

Duty281

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 11:21 am

Your best bowler is a rookie with a cracked rib - trouble!

What could England do better? There’s so much criticism of the bowling about, but they’re being handicapped by the batting. Give me strength reading another article about pace; the pitch is made for batting and too many of ours give away wickets.

Ask yourself why we won’t draw this match and the answer will certainly touch upon a widespread acceptance that we’re more likely to collapse for 170 than bat another 400.

The bowling isn’t great, but it’s had the fierce nature of Stokes taken from it, the faster lads in the background have all been crocked or have it in their history, and Ali has had injuries disturb his prep which then destroyed his confidence.

The batting lost an all rounder.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by jimbohammers on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 11:22 am

Duty281 wrote:"Watching from side on our body language was good. We stuck at it, we just weren't quite good enough. We think we've done pretty well today."

Yes, the England assistant coach Farbrace just said that!

Jesus Christ. Should be sacked on the spot for that comment

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

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