The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

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The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Pal Joey on Wed 13 Dec 2017, 7:12 pm

First topic message reminder :

3rd Test Perth, December 14-18, 2017

Australia:
Bancroft, Warner, Khawaja, Smith *, S Marsh, M Marsh, Paine †, Starc, Cummins, Lyon, Hazelwood

England:
Cook, Stoneman, Vince, Root *, Malan, Bairstow †, Ali, Woakes, Overton, Broad, Anderson

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:32 am

Edged through slips for four by Bairstow. Eventful first over with the new ball by Starc.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:32 am

alfie wrote:Hi guildford
...
I agree with Olly that Stoneman has been by no means disgraced : he's been worked over pretty thoroughly a few times in this series but he's not sold his wicket easily : I think he will do a job in conditions that suit him better - and for most England bats Australian conditions are as alien as they're going to get.
...

Just to identify fully with that on Stoneman. As someone who is regularly clamouring for fifties to be converted into centuries, there's some frustration with his scores (which I know he will feel strongly). However, the difficulty of doing it against this attack on their home soil shouldn't be underestimated. I do feel Goose is too quick to reach a judgement in labelling him a gap filler lacking quality. Let's see how he does against a few others first - I believe he's close to meriting that.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:34 am

England 276 for 4. Partnership on 145 but suddenly this pair being tested by the new ball. Malan on 93. Can he reach the century?
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:39 am

150 partnership up and Malan 97 not out.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:43 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:New ball taken and Malan dropped in the slips with the first delivery with it.

Think he's earned some luck...

Goose said he survived a decision on umpires call ? If it was the one I saw it was umpire's call on impact but missing anyway...

No worries ...100 up Yahoo

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:44 am

Well played Dawid Malan. First test century. That is a great knock under the circumstances.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:48 am

Brilliantly played by Malan - he's shown a lot of grit and determination in his test career so far, good to see him turn that into a big innings.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:48 am

Yeah great stuff from him. Theres been a couple of close calls but no more than youd expect from any century, for the most part hes looked far more comfortable than previous knocks.

Its such a shame that England couldnt get partnership like this going earlier in the series. Seeing through the next 5 overs of the new ball to come out tomorrow would be an exceptional effort in context of whats gone before and the level of expectation.
So far of ocurse theyve done more trhan just see it off, theyve taken a lot of boundaries too. Couldnt ask for more.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by dummy_half on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:50 am

Malan may have had a little luck that Stoneman didn't (for example his top edged pull clearing the rope), but he's done well. I think he's already proven in his relatively short Test career that he has the mental strength for the challenge, and my previous concern has been that for a supposedly fluent batsman he has on occasion been bogged down - a bit of a case of looking only for 4s rather than singles - but today's innings looks to have been a good mix of big shots and working the field.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:51 am

guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:Hi guildford
...
I agree with Olly that Stoneman has been by no means disgraced : he's been worked over pretty thoroughly a few times in this series but he's not sold his wicket easily : I think he will do a job in conditions that suit him better - and for most England bats Australian conditions are as alien as they're going to get.
...

Just to identify fully with that on Stoneman. As someone who is regularly clamouring for fifties to be converted into centuries, there's some frustration with his scores (which I know he will feel strongly). However, the difficulty of doing it against this attack on their home soil shouldn't be underestimated. I do feel Goose is too quick to reach a judgement in labelling him a gap filler lacking quality. Let's see how he does against a few others first - I believe he's close to meriting that.

Well my "hope" is that (a) Hameed gets his mojo back and comes back as an opener : at which point , if Stoneman is doing a job , I would seriously consider letting Cook drop down to three ... Assuming he's still keen I wonder if he might not do the Trott job in his later years ?
Just a crazy idea ...either of the others could play three I guess...

But I do think Stoneman has earned a run in the side.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:51 am

This partnership of 169 has turned this innings around. At 131 for 4 the innings was heading down a familiar route but now England are rejuvenated and eyeing up a score in excess of 400 maybe even up to 500.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 9:52 am

Gooseberry wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Malan is now the leading run scorer in the series...

He has had 2 more innings than Smith mind ... but fair play, hes done a great job here and has had a good tour.

(Needs to make a 160 though Whistle )

clap clap 100 up for Malan. Brilliant effort.

So important he keeps it going. For all Goose's jibes, 160 should now be the aim. That would go a very long way to ending our losing streak and ensuring at least the draw. We are not yet in such a position of strength in this match.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:04 am

This is England's day as they close on 305.for 4. Malan 110 not out and Bairstow 75 not out with the partnership unbroken on 174.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:07 am

I think one point that has perhaps been somewhat overlooked on this tour is that adjusting to the higher bounce in Australia is not easy. And if you have an inadequate warm up - as I'd argue they have - it is going to be very hard for players to be at their best and ready to take on a very good home team attack from the start.

Brisbane and Adelaide came quickly together : this week , even on a bouncier track , they've looked better...

Really hope they can get a result here as I think this series could get very competitive if it remains "live" to Melbourne.

305/4. England's day thumbsup

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:14 am

Well, that was a bit off script - from 130/4 to 305/4 at close!

Tremendous knock by Malan with a rare and very valuable partnership, with Bairstow who more than played his part and thrived in company with a 'proper' batsman.

It could of course still all go wrong from here. Think of Sir Geoffrey's usual warning of adding 2 wickets to the scoreboard and 360 all out would be more likely than the 500 that has been mentioned. However, we are clearly the better placed team at the end of day one. Not for me to give Duty financial advice but he might be looking to lay off his 5-0 betting slip. Wink

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:14 am

alfie wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
alfie wrote:Hi guildford
...
I agree with Olly that Stoneman has been by no means disgraced : he's been worked over pretty thoroughly a few times in this series but he's not sold his wicket easily : I think he will do a job in conditions that suit him better - and for most England bats Australian conditions are as alien as they're going to get.
...

Just to identify fully with that on Stoneman. As someone who is regularly clamouring for fifties to be converted into centuries, there's some frustration with his scores (which I know he will feel strongly). However, the difficulty of doing it against this attack on their home soil shouldn't be underestimated. I do feel Goose is too quick to reach a judgement in labelling him a gap filler lacking quality. Let's see how he does against a few others first - I believe he's close to meriting that.

Well my "hope" is that (a) Hameed gets his mojo back and comes back as an opener : at which point , if Stoneman is doing a job , I would seriously consider letting Cook drop down to three ... Assuming he's still keen I wonder if he might not do the Trott job in his later years ?
Just a crazy idea ...either of the others could play three I guess...

But I do think Stoneman has earned a run in the side.


I dont think Im being "too quick" Im basing it on his career ( he is 30...a mature player) and his abilities. Hes never going to be a great batsman.
That doesnt mean he wasnt the right selection or able to " do a job" for England, but hes not going to be the sort of star player England need to replace Cook if he retires/ contiues to average in the low 30s (last winter, this summer, ashes so far). Englands ambition is to be contesting the number one spot in tests, if the likes of Stoneman who can grit out the odd decent 50 are the best we can do in the top 3 ( and on recent evidence he is) then theres going to have be some real quality emerge down the order and in the bowling.
You could colour me amazed if he retures at 36 with a test average in the low 40's and a garaunteed career as a pundit moaning about how the new generation arent cricketing properly.

Im not rubbishing him, just being realistic. Hes decent but not spectacular either in his basic technique or his scoring shots. Dogging out a couple of frist inning 50s doesnt change that. Lets see him get a 160 Whistle

 (Ok I know we all said this about Chris Rogers but....)

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by dummy_half on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:14 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:This is England's day as they close on 305.for 4. Malan 110 not out and Bairstow 75 not out with the partnership unbroken on 174.

Definitely ends as England's day, but because we were so far behind the game by mid afternoon, even a partnership as good as this is only pulling us back to a 7.5 out of 10 position - Malan and YJB doing a great job to come through the entire final session and keeping the score board ticking along nicely, plus seeing off the first burst of the second new ball. If they can see off the first hour tomorrow we have a chance to build a proper first innings score (450+), but that won't be easy.

Tomorrow's plan, to mis-quote John Virgo in Big Break - Score as many runs as you can

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by jimbohammers on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:15 am

Well played Malan (and Bairstow) a really important partnership that. They need to continue it tomorrow morning to allow Moeen to come in and be attacking.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:16 am

Excellent day for England - really put ourselves into a position where we can make a match defining score in the first innings, and at least secure a position where we shouldn't lose from.

I too share concerns about how we are going to get 20 wickets, the pitch looks fantastic for batting. But if we can get 500+ on the board first dig, then it'll add a huge deal of scoreboard pressure (especially with Mitch Marsh, a guy who has the worst average of any top 6 batsman to play more than 20 innings in test history, playing)
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by LivinginItaly on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:36 am

Well I am very very happy with our position at the close of play. I think any England fan, if offered 305-4 at the close, would have accepted it immediately. We are not yet in a strong position ( we need another 120+) we have the foundation to produce a big score and really put Australia under scoreboard pressure for the first time in the series. Alternatively we will be 350 all out tomorrow morning.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by alfie on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 10:42 am

Yes an excellent start ...and it looks better both in quantity and quality than Brisbane : but there are some similarities so I will not get carried away yet ...they still need to win the first session tomorrow so the position isn't wasted. Australia will attack hard first up with the still new ball ; if they can see it off perhaps tiredness will start to impact the main three (Starc was already looking a bit uncomfortable )

Getting twenty wickets may indeed not be easy ; but there will be something for the bowlers for a day or two yet I think. Pacier pitches might be good for the Aussie quicks ; but they will also help England's , somewhat less rapid , bowlers to give the batsmen less room for error.
This pitch gives full value for strokes ; but chances will be created. Australia actually put a few down today - England will not want to waste any !

Malan's day : but Bairstow has been impressive too. Hope at least one of them can go on to a big score...

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 11:00 am

Pleasantly surprised, but this is a good rather than amazing position. Stumbles early on mean this recovered is rather than defined the test. Has to be 450-ish to get us comfortable

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 12:39 pm

Good, good. Excellent foundation to build upon. Well done to Malan and Bairstow. Best day of the series for England so far.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by dummy_half on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 12:59 pm

Duty281 wrote:Good, good. Excellent foundation to build upon. Well done to Malan and Bairstow. Best day of the series for England so far.

Not sure it was our best day of the series (day 4 of the last test was probably better in isolation), but it is certainly the best match position we've been in. As you say, it's an excellent foundation, but the morning session tomorrow will go a long way to defining the rest of the match - England come through for say loss of 1 wicket and we should be looking at a score well above 450, but a couple of quick wickets could still see us skittled for 350 or so and hand the advantage back to Aus.

As others have said, our bowlers don't have the same pure pace as the Aussies, and so we will need the scoreboard pressure to help - it's a big psychological difference going out 350 behind and 500 behind...

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 1:06 pm

jimbohammers wrote:Well played Malan (and Bairstow) a really important partnership that. They need to continue it tomorrow morning to allow Moeen to come in and be attacking.

Think this is a good point Jimbo re: Moeen - if Malan/Bairstow can see us through the first hour, and maybe towards 350, we can send Moeen in with a license to go after Lyon and co - and he could potentially take the game away very quickly from the Aussies. But, if he's coming in two overs into the days play against a new ball and fresh bowling line up...I'm not so confident!
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by compelling and rich on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 2:30 pm

stayed up to 89-1 feeling fairly confident having what i had seen. must have missed vince dismissal by a delivery or two. just caught up with the highlights and a good day for england. watching the stoneman innings live it was very good, the aussies werent poor with the first new ball but he and vince rode out the storm and stoneman was able to tick the scoreboard over well (including being the first to go at lyon and get the better of him)

hazelwood was unlucky, bowled very well with not much rewards including couple of drops

agreed with others about the stoneman dismissal, terrible decision although cant say ive ever rated dar (one of the worse around imo). not one angle i saw when the decision was being given convinced me he was out. certainly not enough to overturn the on field decision

very good batting surface this which the aussies got abit more out through their extra pace. could be very hard work for our slower pacers. key is definitely with the new ball. with that in mind i think we need nearer 500+ than 450ish. if the two still in can stick out the first hour we should get there as its fairly easy to score runs with the lightening outfield, but early wicket and the tail begins, which the aussies have shown they can get through fairly easy

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 8:17 pm

On the issue of Stoneman he is going to be a stop-gap opener but that needn't be seen as derogatory. His age means he isn't one with a long test career in front of him. All he should concentrate on his each innings and doing himself justice. Sure he will never be a record breaker but as long as he is contributing with the bat and part of a winning England side then that is the important thing.

England have explored using several openers in recent years and Stoneman has been one of the better ones. He won't be a Cook-type for sure but tgen again who is?
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 8:27 pm

If England are still batting at lunch the score will be up around 400 and if still batting by tea then they will be around the 500 mark. Key is this pair continuing to negate the new ball effect through the first hour. If the do that I think 400 runs will be assured. That will be a competitive score going by recent first innings in Perth tests.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 1:55 am

That really was a good day for England yesterday and they are well positioned to set a decent target of at least 450-500 runs if Malan and Bairstow continue their good work. I must say as the only Aussie on here... I really enjoyed watching both of them do well on that almost perfect pitch on a beautiful summer's day. There was a real Ashes feel to the day which is what these contests are all about.

Some amazing bounce was extracted from Starc... yet still the pitch was so consistent otherwise and those guys must have loved batting on it. Feel very sorry for Stoneman. I just can't see how they (or Dar in particular) could have given that out. It's just not right. Something needs to be done about this technological discrepancy between hotspot and snicko; you can't ignore one and take the other... besides the snick looked late anyway.

Australia will need to strike early with the new ball this morning; although I wouldn't mind seeing Bairstow get his ton. He deserves it after coming in at 131/4 and playing so well with Malan in that 176 run partnership.

Then hopefully our guys can try and rip through the rest of your lower order soon after. Smile They'll need to hold on to those catches though. steam

We had a horrifically hot day here yesterday... 41 degrees... so please excuse me for not posting live during the match. Much cooler weather today and it should be much more enjoyable watching this one unfold whichever way it goes.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:05 am

really feel for you LD in your lovely sunny weather, 1 degree here with lovely sleet/rain

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 2:27 am

compelling and rich wrote:really feel for you LD in your lovely sunny weather, 1 degree here with lovely sleet/rain

yes, I saw the snow on the news on Wednesday. Keep warm!
Yesterday was a struggle outside... it was like a convection oven blowing hot air. Unbearable!

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:06 am

to be fair i whinge in both, probably better suited to the cold if anything

tight but compelling viewing so far. england batters doing well just riding the storm for now

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:26 am

well done johnny lad!

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:27 am

this not playing him with the tail malarkey seems to be working

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:30 am

Cracking century for Bairstow. Full credit to him. Loved the emotional embrace between the two.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:32 am

Runs beginning to flow now with England 356 for 4. Partnership now an epic 225 runs. Malan on 134 and Bairstow 100.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:37 am

Superb stuff from this pair.

Far from the foregone conclusion I anticipated!

Keep this up and England are heading for some broad, sunlit uplands.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:54 am

So Bairstow better get that 160 then Rolling Eyes

Cheap way for Malan to get out in the end, but still an excellent innings

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:54 am

Crap! Great innings, great catch. Ali in against Lyon now . Don’t blink

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:54 am

Finally, Malan falls for 140. Caught after going after Nathan Lyon and top edging it. He will be disappointed in the way he exited. England 368 for 5.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:57 am

Moeen Shocked

How quickly things change.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:57 am

Overton to come in over Ali next? At this rate I’d prefer Anderson

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 3:58 am

Ali caught and goes for a second ball duck. He better contribute with the ball or his selection will be under scrutint. England 372 for 6.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:01 am

Ali surely on the precipice of being dropped now?

450 has gone from certainty to distant.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:03 am

Ali doesn’t look like there’s even any fight in him. If we had any other spinner with and experience think he would have already.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Pal Joey on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:08 am

He's been next to useless with his injured finger so far on this tour. Can't see him lasting much longer in this series.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:15 am

Bit of a giveaway that from Woakes. Cracking catch in the deep though. England 389 for 7.
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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Duty281 on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:16 am

368/4 becomes 389/7. Classic English collapse; the sort that has happened since time immemorial.

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:18 am

400 is slightly disappointing. Just waiting on Bairstow to recklessly give his away now by going to aggressive. Needs to hog strike and play normally. Give the tail ender only 1 or none if possible

compelling and rich

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by compelling and rich on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 4:19 am

There it is

compelling and rich

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Re: The Ashes: 3rd Test, Perth

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


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