India VS South Africa

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India VS South Africa

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 4:44 pm

Though am posting here bit late.

Indian team for South Africa has a bit of surprise with the coming of Jasprit Bumrah. He has not bowled with the red ball since January 2017. Indian team rarely go with a backup WK. Yeah this is a welcome call for Parthiv Patel, but I hardly see any chance of him padding up.

Rest the team is quite similar with Vijay, Rahul, Dhawan, Virat(c), Pujara, Rahane, Rohit, Saha, Parthiv, Ashwin, Jadeja, Hardik, Bhubhneshwar, Shami, Ishant, Umesh, Bumrah.

The final 11 selection would be tricky for Kohli, as he might go for only one spinner and this time its difficult to chose between Jadeja and Ashwin. I think Dhawan will be carrying drinks and Rahul will bat. The probable 11 would be

Vijay
Rahul
Pujara
Kohli(c)
Rahane
Hardik
Ashwin
Saha
Bhubhneshwar
Shami
Umesh/Bumrah
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Fri 15 Dec 2017, 7:44 pm

I was expecting Bumrah to be called for overseas tours and am not suprised to see him
India is going in geared with pace attack and to handle pace and bounce

It's a good move to send 4 younger pace bowlers to provide net practice to Indians
https://thefield.scroll.in/861155/four-rookie-pacers-to-travel-with-indian-team-to-south-africa-as-net-bowlers
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sat 16 Dec 2017, 11:18 pm

Can't see India getting much change out off South Africa to be brutally honest.

Players like Dhawan, Pujura, Rohit, Pandya aren'y good enough against top class fast bowling on fast pitches. The likes of Steyn, Philander, Rabada and Morkel will be to hot to handle. Only see Virat, Vijay and Rahul as having the proper technically ability to weather the storm.

Secondly Pandya isn't really a viable option as an all rounder. He flogged some easy runs against a dreadful Sri Lankan side, but South Africa probably won't even select a spinner.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 8:14 am

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Can't see India getting much change out off South Africa to be brutally honest.

Players like Dhawan, Pujura, Rohit, Pandya aren'y good enough against top class fast bowling on fast pitches. The likes of Steyn, Philander, Rabada and Morkel will be to hot to handle. Only see Virat, Vijay and Rahul as having the proper technically ability to weather the storm.

Secondly Pandya isn't really a viable option as an all rounder. He flogged some easy runs against a dreadful Sri Lankan side, but South Africa probably won't even select a spinner.

Pujara has played 4 test matches in SA. He has a decent average of 44 with century and a half century. I think he will be an improved batsman this time.

I agree with you for the rest.
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 8:18 am

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Can't see India getting much change out off South Africa to be brutally honest.

Players like Dhawan, Pujura, Rohit, Pandya aren'y good enough against top class fast bowling on fast pitches. The likes of Steyn, Philander, Rabada and Morkel will be to hot to handle. Only see Virat, Vijay and Rahul as having the proper technically ability to weather the storm.

Secondly Pandya isn't really a viable option as an all rounder. He flogged some easy runs against a dreadful Sri Lankan side, but South Africa probably won't even select a spinner.

Vijay, rahul, Rahane are India's bets batsmen in pacy, bouncy and seaming conditions
Pujara, Kohli are OK
Pandya needs to prove himself
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 8:37 am

KP_fan wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Can't see India getting much change out off South Africa to be brutally honest.

Players like Dhawan, Pujura, Rohit, Pandya aren'y good enough against top class fast bowling on fast pitches. The likes of Steyn, Philander, Rabada and Morkel will be to hot to handle. Only see Virat, Vijay and Rahul as having the proper technically ability to weather the storm.

Secondly Pandya isn't really a viable option as an all rounder. He flogged some easy runs against a dreadful Sri Lankan side, but South Africa probably won't even select a spinner.


Kohli are OK

Looking at Kohli's show in Australia last season, I think your rating of him to be OK is bit unfair, IMO.
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sun 17 Dec 2017, 2:55 pm

subhranshu.kumar.5 wrote:
KP_fan wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Can't see India getting much change out off South Africa to be brutally honest.

Players like Dhawan, Pujura, Rohit, Pandya aren'y good enough against top class fast bowling on fast pitches. The likes of Steyn, Philander, Rabada and Morkel will be to hot to handle. Only see Virat, Vijay and Rahul as having the proper technically ability to weather the storm.

Secondly Pandya isn't really a viable option as an all rounder. He flogged some easy runs against a dreadful Sri Lankan side, but South Africa probably won't even select a spinner.


Kohli are OK

Looking at Kohli's show in Australia last season, I think your rating of him to be OK is bit unfair, IMO.

He averages 68 in SA in 2 tests
had two tours of Aus 4 tests each...averaging 38 and 86 respectively
tour of NZ with 2 tests and average 71
and a tour of Eng with average 13 in 5 tests

so you are right he is more than OK......he's good
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Mon 25 Dec 2017, 10:29 pm

since the Champions Trophy final walloping to Pak.......one of the major factors that loss was attributed to...was ineffectiveness of Ashwin/Jadeja

Kohli lost confidence in them and since then India has resorted to Chahl ( leg spin), Kuldeep ( chinamen), Akshar ( SLA) and recently washington Sundar ( off spin, top spin)

Kohli and selectors have written off pretty much Ashwin/Jadeja from limited over formats....not juts based on the CT show...but under the general view test match spin is a specialized art.....and as Jadeja / Ashwin got better in it...they lost the limited over skills quite a bit.

nevertheless stung by that it appears Ashwin is aiming to become a specialist leg spinner, in addition to his off-spins...would be very interesting to watch him in action......bearing in mind that Ashwin is a serious man, he gets after things in full earnest when he decides to do something

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21852700/r-ashwin-now-legspinner-too
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Flintoff01 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 3:33 am

The danger man for South African is Aiden Markram, he averages 95 in tests so far (the next Donald Bradman?) and has got 3 centuries in 4 innings. Umesh Yadav will have to be at his very best or Markram could lead SA to a rout.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 2:40 pm

Flintoff01 wrote:The danger man for South African is Aiden Markram, he averages 95 in tests so far (the next Donald Bradman?) and has got 3 centuries in 4 innings. Umesh Yadav will have to be at his very best or Markram could lead SA to a rout.
except that Markram's runs have come against hapless Bangladesh and Zimbabweans Very Happy
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 2:58 pm

South Africa squad for Cape Town Test
Faf du Plessis (capt), Hashim Amla, Temba Bavuma, Quinton de Kock (wk), Theunis de Bruyn, AB de Villiers, Dean Elgar, Keshav Maharaj, Aiden Markram, Morne Morkel, Chris Morris, Andile Phehlukwayo, Vernon Philander, Kagiso Rabada, Dale Steyn

1) Elgar
2)Markram
3) Amla
4) De Villiers
5) Faf
6) Quinton+
7) Philander
8) Rabada
9) Maharaj
10) Morkel
11) Steyn*

would be my preferred 11
SA could put morris in place of steyn as a the bowling allrounder
or Bavuma as the pure batsman
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 3:02 pm

India Test Squad: Virat Kohli(c), Murali Vijay, Shikhar Dhawan, Lokesh Rahul, Cheteshwar Pujara, Ajinkya Rahane, Rohit Sharma, Hardik Pandya, Wriddhiman Saha, Ravichandran Ashwin, Ravindra Jadeja, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Mohammed Shami, Ishant Sharma, Umesh Yadav, Parthiv Patel, Jasprit Bumrah

1) Vijay
2) rahul
3) Pujara
4) Kohli
5) Rahane
6) Ashwin
7) Saha+
8) pandya
9) Bhuvneshwar
10) Shami
11) ishant

is the likely 11
Batting doesn't look very solid with ashwin at 6
but 7 to 10 can all be counted as useful batters

a bit of possibility that Yadav may be played ahead of Bhuvi as he is faster (90mph) but that weakens the batting...and Bhuvi is India's seam/Swing specialist equivalent of Anderson
India anyway has hit ht deck in the form of Ishant and Shami and Pandya....so Bhuvi brings variety and strengthens batting

Ishant was in ripping form against Lanka in terms of pace and bounce he was extracting so he can't be left out in favor of Yadav
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 7:01 am

http://www.espncricinfo.com/story/_/id/21916681/rather-training-sessions-our-control-warm-ups-virat-kohli

India realizes the futility of warm-up game and has alternative plans to warm up
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by alfie on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 8:18 am

What an interesting - and refreshing - approach from the Indian management ! I like the idea (obviously it can't be as good as a proper sequence of warm up matches ; but they seem to have gone the way of sea voyages and rest days in Tests) and also salute the way in which they seem to be determined to ignore anything they can't control and just throw themselves into the action...

Remains to be seen whether they can make the results match their intentions : I think it will be tough as no amount of preparation or resolve will make facing the SA pace attack on lively decks to which they are not generally accustomed anything less than severely challenging. But they have a couple of things in their favour...a winning record (=confidence) and some very handy batsmen who will be out to show what they can do away from home. Add in a positive mental approach and who knows ?
The long tail they look likely to carry in and the concerns as to how effective their attack will be in these alien conditions are my concerns. But this SA team is itself a bit "up and down" lately...look forward to the action !

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Duty281 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 1:36 am

Should be a high-class series, the only disappointment being that it's 3 tests, not 5.

India are on an excellent winning run, and boast a formidable batting line-up, but are largely untested outside the subcontinent. South Africa have a fearsome pace attack.

Narrow nod to South Africa, 2-1 to them is my prediction.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:09 am


10.00am South Africa won the toss and chose to bat

South Africa's XI: Dean Elgar, Markram Amla AB Faf Quinton Philander Maharaj Steyn Morkel Rabada

4 seamers and a spinner for SA

India playing also 3 seamer, bowling allrounder and Ashwin
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:10 am

Shikhar Dhawan, M Vijay, Cheteshwar Pujara, Virat Kohli, Rohit Sharma, Wriddhiman Saha, Hardik Pandya, R Ashwin, Mohammed Shami, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Jasprit Bumrah

I am not happy India leaving out rahul...he is miles ahead of Dhwan as an opener
and Rahane is way better than Rohit

and Ishant should have been ahead of Bumrah making debut
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 9:32 am

KP_fan wrote: Shikhar Dhawan, M Vijay, Cheteshwar Pujara, Virat Kohli, Rohit Sharma, Wriddhiman Saha, Hardik Pandya, R Ashwin, Mohammed Shami, Bhuvneshwar Kumar, Jasprit Bumrah

I am not happy India leaving out rahul...he is miles ahead of Dhwan as an opener
and Rahane is way better than Rohit

and Ishant should have been ahead of Bumrah making debut


Do people still rate Ishant? He seems to have been around forever without managuing to look consistently good. I know he mostly plays on unhlepful pitches but how you can get to so many caps without ever being economical or having a good strike rate in an era when India have finally started to produce a depth of seam talent Im not sure.
I do understand you concern about trading a genuine pace bowler for an out and out medium pacer though.

As it is  Kumar has ripped the SA top order apart.  India can play away from home...although we are yet to see how well their batsmen can cope with the SA new ball bowlers this is a pretty dream start for them. No excuses about a lack of time to prepare.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 9:49 am

Looking forward to Kohli's lovers Dhawan and Rohit getting ripped to pieces, all good and well slogging on dead pitches in india. Ludicrous that Rahane the v/c and Rahul are missing

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 11:00 am

An even session in the end but one where other than Bhuvi's initial half hour burst Indian bowlers struggled for 2 reasons

1) Bumrah and Shami did not settle into the right line and length , because they were trying to be too aggressive and ABDV's counter attack didn't make it easy

2) India did not have a plan once ABDV started attacking......they should have moved to an in & out field and tried to use "slow down ABDV strategy instead of attacking him"

Ind have to come out in second session and hit the ground running with impeccable line and length and let the ptich do the rest
there is seam movement and a lot of bounce

shouldn't let them get more than 250
I have serious worries about the batting line up with two mega FTBs in Rohit and Dhawan


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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 12:01 pm

tight cricket brings two wickets
Pandya the most consistent seamer on display...juts the right speed at 132-137 kph
tight lines and letting the pitch move it around off the seam
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 1:43 pm

Well its looking like the tails not as soft as India had hoped ...so they should get somewhere between 250-300.
Sounds good for India but its hard to know how well they will bat in these conditions against 4 seamers of that quality. SA really have gambled on all out attack and blowing India away here, you can see why they were happy with bowling first and avoiding an early morning green wicket facing a fresh Steyn, Morkel, Rababa and Philander with a new ball.

Already looking a more watchable series than the Ashes

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 3:02 pm

286 is what SA get
Dunno whether I should be happy that we could wind up the first inning in less than a day after they won the toss and batted first...so many times I have seen opposition get close to 400 even in seam helpful conditions against us when touring

or feel disappointed that our bowlers weren't consistent enough in very helpful conditions  and allowed SA to get about 80 runs more than they should have.....atleast 40 too many


will see how we bat...I think there is a lot of bounce and seam movement and it won't be easy batting...like SA India bats usefully down to Shami at number 10....every one's gotta score some runs

To me SA is 65-35 ahead at the moment
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 3:12 pm

Bumrah lacks the requisite skills for Test cricket at this moment in time. He lacks discipline and doesn't have patience. His seam positioning is also all over the place. Shami was disappointing. Bhuvi is a star.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 3:39 pm

Dale Steyn moves to Test wicket #418. Dhawan with a shocking shot.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 3:51 pm

Not able to watch butbit seems Dhawan got a case of the Moeens and tried to play T20 against the best moving ball attack in test cricket.

SA definately ahead now...theres a lot of onus on these two to avoid the innings collapsing before its even got going.

Guess a draws out of the equation already

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by wisden on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 4:28 pm

Dreadful start from India...all 3 batsmen guilty of giving their wickets away, Spinner won't be needed, India need to not lose another wicket before drinks tomorrow morning, otherwise could be a short test match..

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Duty281 on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 5:40 pm

Fun start to proceedings. South Africa will be looking to get Pujara out before he gets settled tomorrow, then they will be well ahead.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by JDizzle on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 7:21 pm

Not sure it would make any difference but both sides look a batsman light to me. Philander at 7 and Saha at 6 seem one place too high, South Africa desperately trying to play all four seamers and a spinner I guess.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by wisden on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 7:35 pm

Saha won't bat 6, Ashwin will, he has batted there for a while now and had success there...in fact Pandya will bat above him too, Saha will bat 8, Philander is more than capable of batting 7 too and has done a few times with success too

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:01 pm

Bad , Muddled, Paralysis due to over analysis, too much strategy....in selecting Dhawan and Rohit ahead of Rahul & Rahane
The latter are India's most compact all condition batsmen

I don't think Ind will come anywhere close to 286
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by JDizzle on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:27 pm

Philander averages 25 in Test cricket. Him being at 7 is a big weakness stemming from them being desperate to squeeze their 5 bowlers in. It is a long tail and a lot of pressure on the top 6.

I was going off the ECB app with Saha at 6 to be fair, but the point still stands. Ashwin at 6 in SA? Good luck.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by wisden on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 8:54 pm

Have you seen Ashwin bat? Im guessing not...techinically sound, has the temperament and is a good batsmen....good all-round cricketer, his batting will be more useful in SA than his bowling

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by JDizzle on Fri 05 Jan 2018, 11:16 pm

Yes. He’s not a top six player - he has four centuries, all against the Windies, not what I want going to South Africa to face Steyn and co. in favourable conditions.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by shivfan on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 11:26 am

JDizzle wrote:Philander averages 25 in Test cricket. Him being at 7 is a big weakness stemming from them being desperate to squeeze their 5 bowlers in. It is a long tail and a lot of pressure on the top 6.

I agree....

It's working out well for South africa now, but the side is a bit unbalanced. I would prefer to see Philander at eight, & Bavuma included in the XI.
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 11:30 am

Ind will be bowled out for no more than 120
will concede 250 in 2nd inning
and will score about 220 in 4th inning to lose the game by 140 odd runs

India made 2 mistakes
1) allowed SA to score too fast....the allowable scoring rate is 2.2RPO on this pitch
just not bowling the right line and length for this pitch...instead more subcontinent lengths

2) Left out two fo their best batsmen Rahul and Rahane in seam conditons
This game is gone
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 11:30 am

India all at sea on 87 for 6 but the pitch has bounce and seam movement.
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 11:41 am

JDizzle wrote:Yes. He’s not a top six player - he has four centuries, all against the Windies, not what I want going to South Africa to face Steyn and co. in favourable conditions.

Ashwin is a No. 8 for such conditions
the problem is Ind is playing with about 4 to 5 gusys who are only capable of No. 8s

Pujara and Vijay are the only two who have the technique and temperament for these conditions
Rahane and Rahul are the other two not selected
Kohli is still living in his wedding dream world....and wanting to play the test match like a Flat Track ODI
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by alfie on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 12:35 pm

Only into day two but the signs aren't great for India on their venture overseas...

Great start yesterday but it's been all downhill after those first three wickets and they look likely to trail by a lot here despite Pandya's valiant effort to keep them afloat.

I appreciate the need to have plenty of bowling but I did think their batting list looked a bit light. Suppose SA do too , really , but they managed to get away with it to a degree yesterday - I didn't sit up late so am not sure whether that was poor bowling or just the way it went on the day ?

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 12:58 pm

Hardik Pandya resuscitating the lacklustre Indian batting effort. 77 off 65 balls. Pandya is dashing and daring. He offered up a couple of chances but South Africa didn't take them. 173-7

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 1:25 pm

Cracking little Indian fightback by Pandya and Kumar - approaching a century stand. Keep this up and they may yet dream of a first innings lead.
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 2:26 pm

Well the Indian tailed but just not quite enough as they are bowled out for 209 and South Africa take a 70+ lead into the second innings. Steyn worryingly limping off with an odd heal issue.
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 3:49 pm

Hardik trying to keep the Indians in the match all by himself. 93 runs and now a couple of poles in the South African second innings

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 4:28 pm

I have written many times pandya is India's most talented cricketer since Kapil and Tendulkar

His fastest ball was 89mph taken 3 wickets so far and offcourse the run a ball 93

India will lose but for their own belief they must go down fighting
Restrict the chase to under 300 and go down by no more than 30 runs
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by wisden on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 5:10 pm

Does Pandya play another way? I know it worked this time, but hitting way out of trouble won't always work...just curious if he has the defensive game required for tests too? But to be fair he did play, also chipped in with wickets, real find for India....

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 5:28 pm

Pandya can score a run a ball not because he ever chances his arm
He has Skill of superb reflexes, stroke play, clean striking ability, and ability to handle short stuff by going on counter attack
His style and batting skills are like kapil dev who was much underused as a batsman
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by wisden on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 5:52 pm

Didn't answer question....does he also have a solid defensive game?

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Nathaniel Jacobs on Sat 06 Jan 2018, 6:53 pm

Dale Steyn injured again. This time he suffered a bizarre heal injury. He's out of 4-6 weeks.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by Duty281 on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 3:45 pm

Day 3 rained off.

Still, 196 overs left in the game ensures we’ll get a positive result.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sun 07 Jan 2018, 7:15 pm

wisden wrote:Didn't answer question....does he also have a solid defensive game?

He knows how to and does defend the ball
but he's not the type who will play 100 balls to score 30 runs defensively to play out a draw
he will smash 90 to 110 on a good day and 60 odd even when batting cautiously or against tighter bowling when he plays a 100 balls
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Re: India VS South Africa

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