India VS South Africa

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India VS South Africa

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Thu 14 Dec 2017, 4:44 pm

First topic message reminder :

Though am posting here bit late.

Indian team for South Africa has a bit of surprise with the coming of Jasprit Bumrah. He has not bowled with the red ball since January 2017. Indian team rarely go with a backup WK. Yeah this is a welcome call for Parthiv Patel, but I hardly see any chance of him padding up.

Rest the team is quite similar with Vijay, Rahul, Dhawan, Virat(c), Pujara, Rahane, Rohit, Saha, Parthiv, Ashwin, Jadeja, Hardik, Bhubhneshwar, Shami, Ishant, Umesh, Bumrah.

The final 11 selection would be tricky for Kohli, as he might go for only one spinner and this time its difficult to chose between Jadeja and Ashwin. I think Dhawan will be carrying drinks and Rahul will bat. The probable 11 would be

Vijay
Rahul
Pujara
Kohli(c)
Rahane
Hardik
Ashwin
Saha
Bhubhneshwar
Shami
Umesh/Bumrah
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by subhranshu.kumar.5 on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 3:21 pm

wisden wrote:Markram makes ODI debut for SA, Faf makes a ton

Markram became the captain for the remaining matches. Seems like SA is doing another Graeme Smith.
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 4:34 pm

India's wrist spinners are proving to be deadly
Ind must not expose them too much before the world cup
play them sparingly about 40% of the games
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 5:31 pm

So India 20 up in the ODI series. The first match win was emphatic ton with a typical Kohli ton and welcome runs from Ajinkya Rahane. The 2 rist spinners announced themselves big time there, and in the 2nd game, they absolutely destroied South Africa. The South African batting lineup, missing AB de Villiers and Faf du Plessis, and with Quinton de Kock struggling badly, was dependent on Hashim Amla alone, and ones he went before the spinners came on, they just folded.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 6:34 pm

And yes, I agree with KPF< India should be careful not to overexpose Kuldeep and Chahal... And they indeed have to manage Bhuvi and Bumrah's workload carefully. If the series secured before early, then they should give opportunities to other seamers in the remaining games, rotating Bhuvneshwar and Bumrah. Someone like Mohammad Shami has a decent overall ODI record, but he's not the greatest option at the deth. And as the ODI game has changed quite a bit after 2015 and Shami played most of his games in this format prior to that, even he would need more time to adjust. And he's not the fastest to adjust, as was clear in the test series, it took him time to move away from the subcontinent length into a South Africa length...
Umesh also is experienced, but not near the Bumrah/Bhuvi league. Not the greatest with control is Umesh... But India need good backup for Bhuvneshwar and Bumrah, and Shami and Yadav are the next best, and perhaps they should give more opportunities to the likes of Shardul Thakur.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 6:44 pm

In the ODIs of the first half of the year, they should work on 3 aspects, building up backups for Kumar and Bumrah in the seam bowling department, mixing up the spin department and try and find a backup or 2 for Kuldeep and Chahal. There is Axar Patel, and of course Ashwin and Jadeja. However, rist spin seems to be the way to go, hopefully someone would put up their hand in the IPL... Karn Sharma? Shreyas Gopal? Or old horse Amit Mishra?

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 9:40 pm

>Rohit is a FTB even in ODis on over seas pitches, whihc although flat have some bounce and seam....

he gets 15s and 20s and 30s against top sides....and the moment he runs into a poor seam bowling side he smacks a big 100 to make up his averages
Rohit Sharma's scores in SA ODIs:
11, 9, 23, 1, 5, 18, 19, 20, 15

Overall record in SA: 10 mts, 121 runs, HI 23, avg of 13.44

> msp
you are right...India's first choice 11 is set...
needs too plan back-ups for every position
Rahul as the opener backup is obvious
Shreyas and pandey for middle order
Shami and Umesh as the seamers.......both have plenty of experience and pace and will do OK....but need time to warm up and find rythm.....
Pandya should take the new ball in my view

WK back-up for the world cup in case something happens to Dhoni is DK and he serves as a middle order backc up also

--spin...i don't think there is a credible 3rd writs spinner.....Mishra iis past the hill......shreyas Gopal is more a poor version of Kumble styled top-spin......Karn Sharma is a possibility

but the next two spinners in selector's queue are Axar and Washington

lets hope atleast one wrist spinner remains fit and fine all the time......he can be mixed with a finger spinner
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Mon 05 Feb 2018, 7:34 am

If they would need a backup finger spinner, think I'd still go back to Jadeja or Ashwin, in that order. Jadeja is a great fielder, usually does a decent containing job and is handy with the bat. Axar is somewhat of a similar mold, but nothing like Jadeja in the field, and even with the bat, the experience all-rounder is better. And yes, he's far more experienced...
As for Ashwin v Washington in the offspin department, again it has to be the veteran, he's practicing legspin of late as we know!! Ashwin is unlikely to sit quietly when his limited overs place is gone...
Lets see how he would go in the Vijay Hazare trophy...

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Mon 05 Feb 2018, 2:29 pm

msp83 wrote:If they would need a backup finger spinner, think I'd still go back to Jadeja or Ashwin, in that order. Jadeja is a great fielder, usually does a decent containing job and is handy with the bat. Axar is somewhat of a similar mold, but nothing like Jadeja in the field, and even with the bat, the experience all-rounder is better. And yes, he's far more experienced...
As for Ashwin v Washington in the offspin department, again it has to be the veteran, he's practicing legspin of late as we know!! Ashwin is unlikely to sit quietly when his limited overs place is gone...
Lets see how he would go in the Vijay Hazare trophy...

I don't think they will go back to Ashwin and Jadeja
CT showed
1) that after long test series the main test spinners are bruised battered and worn out
2) that after bowling test match wicvket taking lines with close ins, its hard for them to make adjustments quickly enough in ODIs
so they have moved on....and created a set of 4 addtional spinners in Chahl, Yadav, Axar, Washington for ODis
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Tue 06 Feb 2018, 12:03 pm

https://scroll.in/field/867696/indias-pacers-hardly-put-a-foot-wrong-in-u-19-world-cup-and-that-proved-to-be-the-difference

One of the major talking points from India’s victorious campaign at the U-19 World Cup was the performance of their pace battery.

Fast bowlers Kamlesh Nagarkoti and Shivam Mavi impressed early on as they clocked speeds of around 145 kph in the first game of the tournament.


If they can bowl that fast at U-19 levels....then their potential is undoubted
Now they have to be preserved, groomed coached
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Tue 06 Feb 2018, 3:08 pm

Lets see how Kamlesh and Mavi would go in the longer formats. Before, they have a stage to impress through the IPL, but it is at the FC level that they have to prove their ability and as importantly, fitness and sustainability...

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Tue 06 Feb 2018, 3:09 pm

Meanwhile, Ravichandran Ashwin has indicated that he's confident enough to try out his new legspin in the IPL as he's now able to land the ball where he wants, more or less.
Lets see how that goes. The IPL probably is the last chance for Ashwin and Jadeja to make it back to the limited overs sides...

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Wed 07 Feb 2018, 3:41 pm

So a fabulous 160 notout from skipper Virat Kohli has set South Africa a target of 303 in the 3rd ODI and they have lost one to Jasprit Bumrah early in the chase.
It was a brilliant knock from Kohli after an early DRS reprieve. Shikhar Dhawan made a fine 76 and Bhuvneshwar Kumar hung around with Kohli after it seemed a middle order collapse would set the innings back. Ajinkya Rahane's streak of 5 50+ scores came to an end in this game, and Hardik Pandya failed to come off at 5. Mahendra Singh Dhoni struggled for his 10 of 22.
While he played a sensational hand with the bat, thought Kohli should have been more flexible with the batting order. These days it seems, Pandya at 5 is more or less cast in stone unless there is a terrible collapse. Perhaps Pandya can eventually evolve into that role, but he's not quite there yet. More importantly, as Dhoni is no longer the Dhoni of old, he's more suited to a middle over role than an end overs one. Pandya on the other hand would be a great asset in the last 10.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Wed 07 Feb 2018, 3:47 pm

JP Duminy batting at 3 for SA here as they are without AB, Faf and Quinton. Markram opened with Amla, and though Bumrah packed off the veteran early, the young skipper is still there, trying to build a partnership with Duminy.
Markram hasn't played too much quality spin and is inexperienced, Duminy is a certified struggler against spin. Perhaps Kohli should extend the canvas of unconventional and bring his leggies on even in the powerplay...

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Wed 07 Feb 2018, 6:44 pm

Keep Noting.... how Rohit after so much time in SA and so many outings...is still struggling
he scores runs on flat patta pitches or when outside India against weak bowling attacks
Rahul would be much better
the middle order of Dhoni and Jadhav has had no exposure or practise.....they have come from cold given that FC season had ended and Dhoni anyway doesn't play in List A or Ranji
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 2:15 pm

That Rohit is a flat track bully is established beyond doubt. But he's so effective a bully that he gets away with performances like these more often than not. Rahul, given a sustained run and team support would surely be better, but I don't see that happening under Kohli-Shastri. The saving grace is that most ODI games are played on real flat conditions. South Africa and perhaps New Zealand might test Sharma, but even Australia and England produce absolute roads thee days for the 50 over games. So there is a greater chance of Rohit coming off in ODIs than is the case in tests, wherein he can't be as consistent even on flat pitches as his temperament is suspect for the longer format.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Thu 08 Feb 2018, 2:18 pm

Ravichandran Ashwin clearly outbowling and outbatting Washington Sundar in the Vijay Hazare trophy, but Ravindra Jadeja hasn't been able to make much of an impact.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by KP_fan on Mon 12 Feb 2018, 8:45 am

there is a lot of talent on display in Vijay Hazare Trophy
Rohit has failed in 8 innings on the tour so far....
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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 4:49 pm

And Rohit scores a ton today, a ton that did equal good and damage to the team cause. He Though he made runs at last and went on to a ton, he also ran both Kohli and Ajinkya Rahane out in the process, perhaps inflicting more damage. The 2 run-outs and the failures of Hardik Pandya and Mahendra Singh Dhoni meant India could score only 55 for 4 in the last 10 overs and ended up with only 274.
When it is clear to entire world that Dhoni is not any more capable of going for it from ball one and that his striking powers have clearly declined, why is the team management persisting with his role as a finisher? Dhoni clearly has to bat up the order. Though Ajinkya Rahane made a fine 79 in the first game, he hasn't made runs since, and in any case, between him and MS, the latter clearly is the better ODI bat. As the selectors are not really willing to go for a younger wicketkeeper option in limited over formats and as none of them are as good as Dhoni the limited overs keeper and overall package, they have to use him in the best possible manner, and that is clearly not by using him as a finisher. Give him time, let him build the innings and then go for it in the end.

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 4:54 pm

Rohit, Dhawan, Kohli, Dhoni, Manish Pandey/Rahane, Kedar Jadhav, Pandya, Bhuvneshwar, Kuldeep, Bumrah, Chahal. That's what I would go in with. Ideally, I wouldn't have Rohit in my side, but since most ODIs are played on roads these days, Rohit can be a good bet. As a recent cricinfo article indicated, South Africa is the only place currently where there is a hint of seam movement in limited over games these days, and as Rohit is the greatest FTB in the entire planet, carrying him through failures on decent tracks now and then would have benefits eventually, as such tracks and the combination of good bowlers on such tracks are supposed to come about ones in 4 years or so!!

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 5:18 pm

Chasing 274, South Africa are 127-4. Amla is still out there and h has the game to play the spinners for sure. Ajinkya Rahane dropped him on 38 of the impressive Hardik Pandya who has already taken out AB and JP Duminy. But in the next over, Chahal got through David Miller's defences through a slowest of slow balls to end a threatening partnership. There is no Chris Moris playing today as he's out injured, and with Rabada, Morkel, Ngidi and Shamsi in that lower order, there will be a lot of pressure now on Amla, Heinrich Klaasen and Andile Phehlukwayo...

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by wisden on Tue 13 Feb 2018, 8:02 pm

Kuldeep finished with 4-53 as SA bowled out for 201

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by msp83 on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 4:32 pm

Would India give chances to players on the bench in the last game as the series is in the pocket? Kohli did hint that while winning the game is priority number one, the team management will have a chat on the 11...Hope they'd bat MS up the order, bring Jadhav back in and give Pandey an opportunity ahead of the inconsistent Rahane.
Rahane and Rohit should be left alone to their best suited formats, Rahane in tests, Sharma in limited overs. While Rahane the limited overs batsman is better than Rohit the test batsman, even the former is far too inconsistent or out of tune with the requirements of the contemporary game. I would prefer KL Rahul given a solid run at 4, but he seems to be clearly out of favour in the 50 overs game, hopefully he'll make a strong case for himself through the T-20Is and the IPL later on...

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Re: India VS South Africa

Post by wisden on Fri 16 Feb 2018, 6:01 pm

India win by 8 wickets...Kohli scores his 35th ODI ton!

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Re: India VS South Africa

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