Guy Noves out

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Guy Noves out

Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 12:26 pm

Jacques Brunel in (not to be confused with Jean-Jacques Burnel, bassist with The Stranglers)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/12/27/france-part-ways-head-coach-guy-noves-dire-run-results-jacques/

Guy Noves has been sacked as France head coach after less than two years, having won only seven of his 21 Tests in charge.

Noves will be replaced as head coach by Jacques Brunel, the former Italy head coach currently in charge of Top 14 side Bordeaux Begles, on a contract running until the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by Rugby Fan on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 1:16 pm

Another addition to the small list of coaches who have moved up the international food chain.

Graham Henry (Wales --> NZ)
Steve Hansen (Wales --> NZ)
Eddie Jones (Japan --> England)
Jacques Brunel (Italy --> France)

Don't thnk there's any such clear pecking order in cases like Brian Ashton (Ireland-Engand), Warren Gatland (Ireland-Wales), Andy Robinson (England-Scotland) etc.

Three of those coaches were offered the top job by their home nation. Only Jones has so far been picked to work for someone else.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by formerly known as Sam on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 3:48 pm

Any ideas about potential staff? Noves setup have all gone.

Is Brunel going to finish the season with UBB as well?

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by whocares on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 8:02 pm

Noves case is a bit of a novelty (no pun intended) as he is the first France head coach to be sacked.
Brunel will still coach UBB for one more game and then move. He is a Laporte man and was probably the only experienced coach available anyway. Regarding his staff it is a bit more tricky : I read that Azéma and Collazo were offered the job but both refused. Apparently it is Galthié (bad news) and Bruno + Bonnaire who would get the assistant jobs. Others saying that there will be a rotation between Top14 coaches - even weirder given the possibility of conflict of interests that this will create.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by lostinwales on Wed 27 Dec 2017, 9:25 pm

whocares wrote:Noves case is a bit of a novelty (no pun intended) as he is the first France head coach to be sacked.
Brunel will still coach UBB for one more game and then move. He is a Laporte man and was probably the only experienced coach available anyway. Regarding his staff it is a bit more tricky : I read that Azéma and Collazo were offered the job but both refused. Apparently it is Galthié (bad news) and Bruno + Bonnaire who would get the assistant jobs. Others saying that there will be a rotation between Top14 coaches - even weirder given the possibility of conflict of interests that this will create.

Sounds like a complete nightmare. You just know that out of this chaos France are going to have to have a good 6N

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by rugbybanter on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 6:13 am

Im surprised that Noves lasted this long his head should have rolled long ago!



Rugby Fan wrote:Jacques Brunel in (not to be confused with Jean-Jacques Burnel, bassist with The Stranglers)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/12/27/france-part-ways-head-coach-guy-noves-dire-run-results-jacques/

Guy Noves has been sacked as France head coach after less than two years, having won only seven of his 21 Tests in charge.

Noves will be replaced as head coach by Jacques Brunel, the former Italy head coach currently in charge of Top 14 side Bordeaux Begles, on a contract running until the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by sensisball on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 9:04 am

Noves had to go. More access to the players, enforced rest periods during the season and his team still looked like a bunch of strangers who met on the bus before the game.

Brunel is a decent shout. He should at least be able to make France competitive. The current french 9 options are playing at Bordeaux, his current club, as well as a couple of front rowers.
Under Brunel Bordeaux have become a much better defensive unit, have a strong and organised pack and the backs have scores some sparkling tries. They are good enough to beat Clermont and La Rochelle (with 14 men for 20 minutes), admittedly both at home.

As head coach with Perpignan he took his team to the final of the T14 on two successive years, winning in 2009 and finishing as runners up to Clermont in 2010.

As French forwards coach in the La Porte era he helped the french to their two grand slams in 2002 and 2004.

Under Brunel Italy manged a handful of 6 N wins, mainly against Scotland. Although he famously manged home wins against France and Ireland in the 2013 season, in which they finshed fourth in the table.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by whocares on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 9:19 am

Not to excuse Novès but at some point think he had 19 players out on injuries from his 45 player list. That said his special summer training camp was a total failure with most players starting the season completely unfit.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by sensisball on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 10:09 am

Good point about the "special" training for his chosen squad. You probably read the piece where Remi Lamera complained about being undercooked for the start of this season, implying that his current injuries were caused by the french "fitness" regime.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by Shifty on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 12:37 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Jacques Brunel in (not to be confused with Jean-Jacques Burnel, bassist with The Stranglers)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/12/27/france-part-ways-head-coach-guy-noves-dire-run-results-jacques/

Guy Noves has been sacked as France head coach after less than two years, having won only seven of his 21 Tests in charge.

Noves will be replaced as head coach by Jacques Brunel, the former Italy head coach currently in charge of Top 14 side Bordeaux Begles, on a contract running until the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

Anyone with half a brain could see this was never going to work from the start.
Putting Noves in charge was akin to putting Alex Ferguson in charge of Scotland after he had retired from Manchester United.
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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by No 7&1/2 on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 4:55 pm

Sounds like the french union are trying to get away without paying a severance as well. Could get messy.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by kingelderfield on Thu 28 Dec 2017, 8:34 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:Jacques Brunel in (not to be confused with Jacques Brel)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2017/12/27/france-part-ways-head-coach-guy-noves-dire-run-results-jacques/

Guy Noves has been sacked as France head coach after less than two years, having won only seven of his 21 Tests in charge.

Noves will be replaced as head coach by Jacques Brunel, the former Italy head coach currently in charge of Top 14 side Bordeaux Begles, on a contract running until the 2019 Rugby World Cup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11PIXoqJvcY

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by doctor_grey on Fri 29 Dec 2017, 12:34 pm

Never liked the guy since the Florian Fritz episode:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrWDOZmhqmg

Made me wonder how many other players Noves put out there when they should not have been playing. There had to be many more. Hope he never lands another job, even cleaning urinals (though that would be appropriate).

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by rugbybanter on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 5:45 am

the problem with the French National rugby union first XV squad is that they don't do well if they aren't playing with their own lot (i.e French players) not players eligible by way of residency, players of convenience. If you look at the current selection it is anything but French and it is not rugby that is shaping this selection. Fortunately they have now realised this and are making the necessary changes to strengthen their core once again. France has an incredible amount of depth in its rugby and there is no need for them to source outsiders , in fact it makes absolutely no sense having players that are not born in France, representing them at first class National level!

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by rugbybanter on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 5:46 am

France will win the next rugby world cup (but only if they have their own players)!

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 8:25 am

Doubt they ll improve enough in 2 just years.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 11:22 am

rugbybanter wrote:France has an incredible amount of depth in its rugby and there is no need for them to source outsiders , in fact it makes absolutely no sense having players that are not born in France, representing them at first class National level!

Would have been a shame to not see Benazzi or Blanco play international rugby.


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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by lostinwales on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 1:40 pm

bet RB voted Brexit

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by Rugby Fan on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 4:53 pm

McGeechan noted recently that a number of coaches in the news are aged 60-70 (Noves, Brunel, Gaffney). Carwyn James and Clive Woodward were in their early forties when they took on top coaching jobs.

There's nothing wrong with older coaches but there ought to be a good pool of guys in their thirties who can take on top jobs below Test level, and decent qualified candidates in their forties who could be considered for international appointments.

Think the sport improves when new ideas have a chance to fail.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by Exiledinborders on Tue 02 Jan 2018, 12:24 pm

rugbybanter wrote:the problem with the French National rugby union first XV squad is that they don't do well if they aren't playing with their own lot (i.e French players) not players eligible by way of residency, players of convenience. If you look at the current selection it is anything but French and it is not rugby that is shaping this selection. Fortunately they have now realised this and are making the necessary changes to strengthen their core once again. France has an incredible amount of depth in its rugby and there is no need for them to source outsiders , in fact it makes absolutely no sense having players that are not born in France, representing them at first class National level!
Why is a player born in France more suited to play for them than a player born anywhere else who learned their rugby playing in France? Do French maternity wards insert flair by some secret process?

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by propdavid_london on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 11:20 am

New French setup just before the 6 Nations will add even more uncertainty and un-predictability to the way the French might play - great!
They will probably smash everyone now!

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by beshocked on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 10:55 am

Noves was brought in past his sell by date. Not surprised he's gone.

Don't think Brunel is going to be much better.

Should have got Cotter in, I know it goes against French pride to bring in a foreign coach but a foreigner in charge has worked for other countries.

French rugby reminds me of English football - deciding to pick inferior domestic coaches instead of looking abroad. Too many foreigners in the league etc.

I still find it kind of ironic that a lot of France's success in the early 2000s was partly thanks to an English defence coach....

Hiring an English defence coach has been shown to be not such a bad thing generally...

Even the NZers saw the logic of using Dave Ellis in 2005 vs the Lions.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by rugbybanter on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:05 am

they've improved enough in 15 minutes of rugby in previous world cups to cause an upset, i wouldn't put it past them!



No 7&1/2 wrote:Doubt they ll improve enough in 2 just years.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by rugbybanter on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:14 am

i'm talking about the deliberate fast tracking of non French players into the national XV for reasons other than their ability! Current admin' are getting rid of this practice as it has weakened the core of their National development over the past 10 years. 2007 was their last decent world cup effort. They should have been finalists on at least one of the two occasions between 2007 and 2016 !



LondonTiger wrote:
rugbybanter wrote:France has an incredible amount of depth in its rugby and there is no need for them to source outsiders , in fact it makes absolutely no sense having players that are not born in France, representing them at first class National level!

Would have been a shame to not see Benazzi or Blanco play international rugby.


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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by rugbybanter on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:17 am


the French will never bring in an outsider to coach their National team , in fact they will probably rid their entire National selection of anything that isn't at least second generation French, i don't think they want them or need them for that matter!


beshocked wrote:Noves was brought in past his sell by date. Not surprised he's gone.

Don't think Brunel is going to be much better.

Should have got Cotter in, I know it goes against French pride to bring in a foreign coach but a foreigner in charge has worked for other countries.

French rugby reminds me of English football - deciding to pick inferior domestic coaches instead of looking abroad. Too many foreigners in the league etc.

I still find it kind of ironic that a lot of France's success in the early 2000s was partly thanks to an English defence coach....

Hiring an English defence coach has been shown to be not such a bad thing generally...

Even the NZers saw the logic of using Dave Ellis in 2005 vs the Lions.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by rugbybanter on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:22 am


No they just don't like playing with "others" as part of their National fabric! Simple fact talk to any of the brilliant French players of the past and they will all agree.


Exiledinborders wrote:
rugbybanter wrote:the problem with the French National rugby union first XV squad is that they don't do well if they aren't playing with their own lot (i.e French players) not players eligible by way of residency, players of convenience. If you look at the current selection it is anything but French and it is not rugby that is shaping this selection. Fortunately they have now realised this and are making the necessary changes to strengthen their core once again. France has an incredible amount of depth in its rugby and there is no need for them to source outsiders , in fact it makes absolutely no sense having players that are not born in France, representing them at first class National level!
Why is a player born in France more suited to play for them than a player born anywhere else who learned their rugby playing in France?  Do French maternity wards insert flair by some secret process?

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by No 7&1/2 on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:33 am

What is shaping the selection if it is not on their ability as you say?

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by nlpnlp on Sat 13 Jan 2018, 12:11 am

The problem with the French selection is that the coach picks players they like rather than the best players, picks them out of position and have no or the wrong game plan.

I have had a house in France for 28 years and I would say out of that time France have had the 'best' team of playing talent for most of those years. They have simply been hampered by poor coaches. The old myth of French players not travelling is rubbish - Sebastian Chabal, Raphael Ibanez, Louis Picamoles, etc have all shown they can play to their best whilst abroad.

France just need a coach who picks the best players (Morgan Parra) in their correct positions, with a game plan that suits them.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by rugbybanter on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 9:51 pm


It can only be a good thing for world Rugby for there to be real rugby people back in the game. French rugby are getting their administration back to where it should be with ex Internationals and the like becoming more involved in the game again. Looking forward to this years six Nations competition & some top level rugby!


lostinwales wrote:
whocares wrote:Noves case is a bit of a novelty (no pun intended) as he is the first France head coach to be sacked.
Brunel will still coach UBB for one more game and then move. He is a Laporte man and was probably the only experienced coach available anyway. Regarding his staff it is a bit more tricky : I read that Azéma and Collazo were offered the job but both refused. Apparently it is Galthié (bad news) and Bruno + Bonnaire who would get the assistant jobs. Others saying that there will be a rotation between Top14 coaches - even weirder given the possibility of conflict of interests that this will create.

Sounds like a complete nightmare. You just know that out of this chaos France are going to have to have a good 6N

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by lostinwales on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 10:11 pm

rugbybanter wrote:
It can only be a good thing for world Rugby for there to be real rugby people back in the game. French rugby are getting their administration back to where it should be with ex Internationals and the like becoming more involved in the game again. Looking forward to this years six Nations competition & some top level rugby!

...

Yeah cos rugby administrators like Serge Blanco never got near a rugby pitch when they were younger.

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Re: Guy Noves out

Post by doctor_grey on Thu 18 Jan 2018, 11:29 pm

Exiledinborders wrote:
rugbybanter wrote:the problem with the French National rugby union first XV squad is that they don't do well if they aren't playing with their own lot (i.e French players) not players eligible by way of residency, players of convenience. If you look at the current selection it is anything but French and it is not rugby that is shaping this selection. Fortunately they have now realised this and are making the necessary changes to strengthen their core once again. France has an incredible amount of depth in its rugby and there is no need for them to source outsiders , in fact it makes absolutely no sense having players that are not born in France, representing them at first class National level!
Why is a player born in France more suited to play for them than a player born anywhere else who learned their rugby playing in France?  Do French maternity wards insert flair by some secret process?
Yes, back in the old days when France actually played with grace, style, and flair, when their women were trying to get pregnant they would call me..................

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Re: Guy Noves out

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