Aviva R12

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Aviva R12

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:07 am

Various games today with a fun one last night and another tomorrow;

Fri
Bath vs Wasps

Sat
Gloucester vs Sale
London Irish vs Newcastle
Saracens vs Worcester
*** WATCH THIS *** Harlequins vs Northampton - Big Game 10 LIVE CHANNEL 5 from 15.30 (+1 Freeview channel 44 I think)

Sun
Exeter vs Leicester

As described, fun game last night with Bath not contesting the breakdown and Wasps disappointingly loose and inaccurate, otherwise would have been 50 plus. Cipriani, Robson and Launchbury mom, offering plenty as did others for Wasps. Mercer showed well for for Bath. Ref Luke P had a good game.

Aside. I never fancied the Bath coach when he was at the Crusaders and he was very lucky to get the Bath gig.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x0muEM0770

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFjWcS74gjI

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 1:18 pm

I'm expecting a home win at the Shed, but here's hoping for the game of the round and for Sale to pinch it 6 tries to 5!!!!!

(more like 36 - 9 ed...)

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 1:46 pm

I fear Tigers will take a humping at Sandy Park tomorrow. No openside flanker and a second row combination we know doesn't work.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by doctor_grey on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 3:30 pm

Bath vs Wasps - agree this was a terrific first 30 minutes or so for Wasps.  And when it got a little tight, was still a fun match to watch.  Hard to know what to make of Bath after that game.  

Gloucester vs Sale - Tester for Gloucester.  If they win, could really position them well for 2017.  Gloucester by 7.

London Irish vs Newcastle - big one for Irish.  I think Irish win this one as long as they don't make any bad mistakes.  Perhaps because the only full match I saw them play this year was the Premiership Double Header (back when it was balmy and warm).  And they looked like a real team back then.  But I think they have enough mistakes in them to make Falcons a winner by 3.

Saracens vs Worcester - Tester for Saracens and for Worcester.  I think Saracens win, but should be tight.  Worcester are improving, but not sure a win against Saints is that big.  Sarries by 7.

Harlequins vs Northampton - No idea how to look at this mess (from a Saints perspective).  Lay an egg or play Rugby?  If t'was me, I would want to impress the new boss coming in.  Saints by 0.001.

Exeter vs Leicester - match of the weekend.  At least until half time.  Exe are very, very good.  Leicester still have that aggravating way of winning games they shouldn't.  But Exe are playing great Rugby and it is hard to see any team slowing them down at the moment.  Exe by 14.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by doctor_grey on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 4:18 pm

Gawd, this is atrocious.........

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 4:40 pm

Saints are getting stuffed. After 25 mins the station of kissing nearly 50% of your tackles and oniy collecting 33% of your lineout ball is pathetic for a professional rugby team.

Might send in my cv next week. There's bound to be a vacancy for a defence coach and I'm fairly certain I can teach them the basics of tackling.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 4:49 pm

The worst thing about this is that I somehow managed to lock in Saints winning by 3 points on SuperBru when I was intending to pick Quins by ~20.

Come on Saints, just the 34 unanswered points needed in the second half, it's not hard.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 4:52 pm

On the first half showing I'm not sure I'd back Saints to score 14 let alone 34.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 4:52 pm

The shed will be happy.......shame for Sale

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 4:55 pm

Falcons win 15-20 at Irish. Closer scoreline than I thought it would be tbh and a little disappointed not to get the tbp. Shame for Irish though, a win might have sparked something from them.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 5:18 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Falcons win 15-20 at Irish. Closer scoreline than I thought it would be tbh and a little disappointed not to get the tbp. Shame for Irish though, a win might have sparked something from them.

They have both picked up points today though. If Saints get nothing from today that'll move Worcester to within 3 of Saints. Shame LI couldn't get a win and have made it a threé horse race...


Last edited by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 5:19 pm

I love a good 3 hour race

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by englishborn on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 5:27 pm

Not sure how we expect to win away games with so many stupid penalties and free kicks. really hurt us today against Gloucester.

Still once again a bonus point, collecting a lot of them this season

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Heaf on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 5:27 pm

It seems in virtually every game there is about a 10 minute window when Irish will give away 2 or 3 soft tries - can't see where a win will come unfortunately ...

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 5:39 pm

I don't want to set Beshocked off on another England hooker rant, but Hartley really has been very, very poor.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 5:47 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I love a good 3 hour race

Yeah me too. Stupid phone.

Agree Fuzzy, Hartley has had a shocker. LCD and George are both playing very well at the minute.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 6:10 pm

I'm a big fan of Hartley but that wasn't one of his better games. Bigger picture I do actually think England need to reinvent themselves over the next 12 months and hooker and captain is one of the obvious positions where EJ needs to make a change. We're not the Dad's army of 2003 so I don't see why we can't progress both in terms of our game and our squad.

Smith is one for the future.

Overall neither side were fantastic though obviously Quins delivered a decent performance for their fans without having to really do much more than the necessary basics.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 7:21 pm

kingelderfield wrote:I'm a big fan of Hartley but that wasn't one of his better games. Bigger picture I do actually think England need to reinvent themselves over the next 12 months and hooker and captain is one of the obvious positions where EJ needs to make a change. We're not the Dad's army of 2003 so I don't see why we can't progress both in terms of our game and our squad.

Hartley may be fortunate to retain his starting jersey at Saints given how well Mikey Haywood played off the bench. If he starts benching then that may be what finally ousts him from England. His leadership skills are what Eddie seems to value most highly but those were also not evident today.

George and LCD are both more skillful and more powerful. Hartley must know he's on borrowed time.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by doctor_grey on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 8:58 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I love a good 3 hour race
I would really prefer not to be one of the three horses (but we are): One of the Lame, the Blind, the Clueless.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by kingelderfield on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 10:17 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:I fear Tigers will take a humping at Sandy Park tomorrow. No openside flanker and a second row combination we know doesn't work.

I completely get the loyalty angle, but I do wonder if it would do Tuilagi some benefit to move on from Leicester and make a real new start at one of the better performing / coached teams; Exeter, Saracens or perhaps Wasps?

I know Wilkinson went literally or should I say geographically south, but his example offers hope for the lad. Otherwise I think it's goodnight Ilene as far as his England career is concerned.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 10:29 pm

kingelderfield wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:I fear Tigers will take a humping at Sandy Park tomorrow. No openside flanker and a second row combination we know doesn't work.

I completely get the loyalty angle, but I do wonder if it would do Tuilagi some benefit to move on from Leicester and make a real new start at one of the better performing / coached teams; Exeter, Saracens or perhaps Wasps?

I know Wilkinson went literally or should I say geographically south, but his example offers hope for the lad. Otherwise I think it's goodnight Ilene as far as his England career is concerned.

The problem he has is that Exeter don't go for marquee signings like that. Baxter is too canny. Saracens play fast and loose with the salary cap but they aren't going to pay him what we are, they've not bothered trying to recruit a centre for a while and aren't going to change their approach for an injury prone international that will miss hefty chunks of a season one way or another.

Wasps have a decent backline but an average pack. They're not likely to win anything anytime soon.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Fuzzy Dunlop on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 10:31 pm

I know Tigers are in a bit of a rut but to suggest one of their players needs to move away or their international career is over is just mind boggling.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Scottrf on Sat 30 Dec 2017, 11:41 pm

Hartley shouldn't be in the England squad on current form, even considering the captain angle.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by yappysnap on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 4:57 am

Do you think young Harry M will end up leaving saints now Scott? Lots of talk on the Quin's board that he looked in pieces mentally during that game.

Great game from Quin's. Infuriating that we can play so well sometimes (Saints, Sarries, Glos) and then be garbage that next weekend (all of Europe, Irish, Falcons).

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by mid_gen on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 9:03 am

Looked to me like Saints squad had checked out for the year already. Been a rough season for them. Hopefully they'll come back in a better state in 2018.

Another infuriating Quins performance for sure yappy! I guess you never know when you sit down to watch a game what you're going to get. A decent year so far though, getting rid of Yarde and FINALLLY having Walker starting every week, Smith obviously a great prospect.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 10:02 am

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:I know Tigers are in a bit of a rut but to suggest one of their players needs to move away or their international career is over is just mind boggling.

I don't think he meant internationally as currently three of England's starting seven backs are in the Tigers side. Developmentally it might be worthwhile but his lack of kicking on has been purely injury led and Tigers have shown plenty of patience in that regard. I think what will benefit Manu most is game time, that's what he needs most. He actually played fairly well against Sarries, those handling errors the only indicator of how rusty he is.

There's lots of rumours going round about Harry Mallinder not finishing his contract at Saints and Saints considering offers because other players are rumoured to be out of contract in the summer (Lawes for instance). It may depend on who the new DOR is going forward and whether they want Mallinder and whether Mallinder wants to stay. Uncertainty is going to hurt Saints because it'll make recruitment more difficult and less targeted. Could be a season of transition next year of they aren't careful.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Bathite on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 10:16 am

Who else is out of contract at saints? Would be a dream to sign Lawes to replace Charteris

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by lostinwales on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 10:21 am

Makes you think though - if next year at saints will be 'transitional' and this one is a write off that is two seasons in a short career. Could be tough for Saints to hold onto players who want to go

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by mid_gen on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 12:42 pm

Would love to have Lawes at quins....our pack in general has got a lot better but we're lacking some 'beast' in the second row. Horwill is a hard worker, Matthews is usually rubbish, Twomey unspectacular. Someone with a bit more pace and aggression in defence is missing for us (although Luamanu seems to have lost a lot of weight and is getting around the park much better, or is it just me?

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by carpet baboon on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 1:20 pm

Lawes to wasps would be a good fit. He works well with launch and it's only down the road from where he is now. Down side is you loose both starting second row to England for large chunks of the season

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 3:01 pm

carpet baboon wrote:Lawes to wasps would be a good fit. He works well with launch and it's only down the road from where he is now. Down side is you loose both starting second row to England for large chunks of the season

Lawes to most AP sides would be a good fit. He's really improved a lot in the last couple of years. His carrying game and lineout work has stepped up and defence has always been strong. There's been rumours of Tigers but that's not the lock I've heard we've brought in. Then again it's all rumours at this point.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by LondonTiger on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 3:04 pm

How are we always so incapable of catching kick offs?

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 3:15 pm

LondonTiger wrote:How are we always so incapable of catching kick offs?

We seem incapable of catching anything.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 3:38 pm

Yesterday Nick Evans talked about the Quins target of three seconds for securing the breakdown and presenting the ball to the scrum half. At the minute it's more like fifteen for Tigers. We're so slow at the breakdown.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 3:48 pm

Hepburn goes down onto his knees with him bum facing the ref gets up and and doesn't change his angle. Ref then tells Cole to "push straight"? Does he actually look what's going on or does he just go with the crowd?

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by mid_gen on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 4:25 pm

I know we talk about player looking for space rather than contact, but Johnny May takes it too far! It does crack me up when he goes wandering off all over the pitch....I don't think he knows where he's going either..

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 4:29 pm

Pretty sure I was told as a child learning to play " don't let the ball bounce".

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 4:42 pm

No blocking call in the build up to that try? Was fairly blatant.

Big difference between these two teams is forwards momentum. Exeter take the ball at pace, phase after phase. Very hard to stop them making yards. Tigers are slow at the breakdown and then it's one off forward runners from a standing start. It's inexcusable for me, this was the problem last season and O'Connor had the end of last season and all preseason to fix this major problem. He hasn't. He has some questions to answer.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 4:52 pm

Rolling Maul stop twice. On third time Craig Maxwell-Keys says "that's once".

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by HongKongCherry on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 5:23 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:Hepburn goes down onto his knees with him bum facing the ref gets up and and doesn't change his angle. Ref then tells Cole to "push straight"? Does he actually look what's going on or does he just go with the crowd?

Maxwell-house is an utter tripe ref. I have yet to see a game where he doesn't have a mare. His handling of the scrum was farcical at times today.
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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 6:28 pm

HongKongCherry wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Hepburn goes down onto his knees with him bum facing the ref gets up and and doesn't change his angle. Ref then tells Cole to "push straight"? Does he actually look what's going on or does he just go with the crowd?

Maxwell-house is an utter tripe ref. I have yet to see a game where he doesn't have a mare. His handling of the scrum was farcical at times today.

He is at least young. He should improve with experience.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by broadlandboy on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 6:42 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
HongKongCherry wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:Hepburn goes down onto his knees with him bum facing the ref gets up and and doesn't change his angle. Ref then tells Cole to "push straight"? Does he actually look what's going on or does he just go with the crowd?

Maxwell-house is an utter tripe ref. I have yet to see a game where he doesn't have a mare. His handling of the scrum was farcical at times today.

He is at least young. He Could improve with experience.
Corrected that for you

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 6:45 pm

After round 12, 10 points separates the top and bottom clubs from their nearest ‘rivals’.

As is becoming increasingly the case in recent seasons, the relegation candidate becomes obvious after 5 or 6 games, and London Irish look near-certainties to go back down again, although cynics might say Northampton seem determined to challenge them, never mind Worcester.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 6:49 pm

You reckon bristol will drop next year should they go up or do an Exeter?

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 9:07 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:You reckon bristol will drop next year should they go up or do an Exeter?

Lansdown seems determined to pursue the path of Exeter and with Lam at the helm, they should survive. I’m interested to see how far Lam can take them or if he’ll burn out once they’ve hit a certain plateau.
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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Bathite on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 10:15 pm

It’s pretty much the exact opposite path to Exeter. Spend huge money on foreign imports and hope the big names names do it for you.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by No 7&1/2 on Sun 31 Dec 2017, 10:41 pm

I meant just stay up then excel but yes they have very different philosophies.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Sgt_Pooly on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 1:13 am

Not a philosophy that adheres them to other supporters imo.

I for one shall be hoping (yet again) that they end up at the foot of the table come the end of the season.

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Re: Aviva R12

Post by Pot Hale on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 10:35 am

Bathite wrote:It’s pretty much the exact opposite path to Exeter. Spend huge money on foreign imports and hope the big names names do it for you.

You’re quite right. I meant in staying up next season assuming they are promoted.
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Re: Aviva R12

Post by formerly known as Sam on Mon 01 Jan 2018, 2:08 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Bathite wrote:It’s pretty much the exact opposite path to Exeter. Spend huge money on foreign imports and hope the big names names do it for you.

You’re quite right.  I meant in staying up next season assuming they are promoted.  

Teams that develop a squad whilst in the Championship and then bring in a few quality additions to that squad upon promotion tend to do well. Teams that try and buy a new squad once they get promoted tend to get relegated. Bristol bought a new team upon promotion last time and it left them with a massively inflated squad and no cohesion.

The squad Bristol have at the minute is very good. You'd think they only need one or two quality additions to really make the step up to lower half team. The organisation and structures Lam can put in place will be just as vital, beating teams because they have much better players only works in the Championship they'll need to be right and we'll drilled in the AP.

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