Dragons Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

[munkian]

First topic message reminder :

Their backs. Wow.

Jackman really can't settle on a hooker mind.

Just saw Simon Thomas tweet Leon Brown has suffered a second concussion. If that's so, I wonder if that means the first wasn't really dealt with properly?

Are you sure ? I've read it that he suffered a concussion so he hasn't been picked INCASE he suffers another.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I feel sorry for the likes of Paul Turner and Kingsley now for the flack they got off journos, whilst Jackman gets nothing.

This. And you didn't hear those two criticising the players in public (much as they'd have liked to).

Two league wins all season is appalling.

I can see the Southern Kings getting their first win of the season against us this weekend.

[RiscaGame]

Ah yes, I would be very surprised if we won this weekend.

[mikey_dragon]

It seems we've had a few more injuries than last season? I'm not too sure though. BJ was recently talking about new signings again, I wonder if it's anyone decent this time? It could 'cause a stir', but could do for all the wrong reasons...

[Guest]

So the Bevington signing is confirmed (Thanks Stone for the heads up on the match thread).

Originally I was happy with this. Always thought he was OK at the Ospreys. But the more I think about it the more I worry that it will be yet another Welsh player who left Wales, didn't kick on and is even worse when the Dragons pick them up: Craig Mitchell, Nicky Thomas, Sam Hobbs, Dan Suer (not sure he actually left Wales though) - can't think of any others off the top of my head but I'm sure there are more!

On a separate note, and not suggesting we should sign him, but I was surprised to see Aaron Jarvis playing for Clermont the other day! Didn't realise he'd moved. What happened to him, from a Wales perspective? Thought he was solid overall.

[Welshmushroom]

I feel sorry for the likes of Paul Turner and Kingsley now for the flack they got off journos, whilst Jackman gets nothing.

This. And you didn't hear those two criticising the players in public (much as they'd have liked to).

Two league wins all season is appalling.

I can see the Southern Kings getting their first win of the season against us this weekend.

I see what your saying there originally but in fairness both Turner and Kingsley had good runs of it. Jackman hasn't had much time to mould this team yet. That's not to say he will have forever to turn this team around. I've no doubt the journo's will start giving him a harder time next year when he has started to assemble his squad.

The thing from this season that has been clear to me is how so many of our current squad are not up to pro rugby. I'd imagine there are a fair few up for the chop although no announcements I can see on who is leaving yet.

On paper though looking at the signings our starting 15 could look very good if we can find a proven 10 to steer the ship for next season. Would love to see someone like Quade Cooper here (although its unlikely).

Can't see us losing to the Kings. Cross Keys could probably beat them. They are woeful.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

They gave the Ospreys a game at the Liberty a few weeks ago. They'll be tougher again at home.

[mikey_dragon]

Our set piece in need of a serious upgrade and we sign a LH that can't scrum. There's just no hope for some people.

I also thought Jarvis was solid, and a bit like an extra flanker around the field - I think that's the main reason Clermont signed him plus he had a couple of good games against them. I don't think he's what we need right now though either.

[Guest]

I'm 95% sure we'll lose to the Kings on the weekend

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Our set piece in need of a serious upgrade and we sign a LH that can't scrum. There's just no hope for some people.

Our set piece has been a strength this season - Ceri Jones has done really good work with the pack. But I do think it's odd to be a signing a prop whose strength was always his dynamism in the loose just as he's starting to get slower.

[geoff999rugby]

I'm 95% sure we'll lose to the Kings on the weekend

That would be terrible.

Dragons were poor at Ravenhill but still a country mile better than Kings who were the worst professional side I have ever seen.
A total shambles

[Luckless Pedestrian]

The Kings will have had this fixture highlighted on their calendar for months. We haven't won an away game in the league since May 2015, or something horrific like that.

[Cardiff Dave]

I'm 95% sure we'll lose to the Kings on the weekend

95% sure it's gonna snow. Will they be able to get out there?
Pools panel could decide result.

[RiscaGame]

They left on Sunday/Monday Dave.

Get out of the goldfish bowl. Probably the best thing they could've done.

[Guest]

Yeah, keep up Dave.

[mikey_dragon]

Our set piece in need of a serious upgrade and we sign a LH that can't scrum. There's just no hope for some people.

Our set piece has been a strength this season - Ceri Jones has done really good work with the pack. But I do think it's odd to be a signing a prop whose strength was always his dynamism in the loose just as he's starting to get slower.

But that was with Harris, Dee and Brown playing right... or no? Yeah that comes across as odd too. I guess we're expecting to lose a LH, one of the former Blues?

[Stone Motif]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/dragons-set-coaching-change-stalwart-14353104

Fair.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I'd say so. Not having a regular outside half hasn't helped, but we've finally got a platform to play off and we still look shapeless behind the scrum a lot of the time. Ultimately that's his responsibility.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Southern Kings: M Banda, M Makase, B Klaasen, L Vulindlu, A Volmink, M du Toit, R Gouws, S Ferreira, M Willemse (captain), P Scholtz, S Greeff, B De Wee, A Ntsila, M Burger, R Lerm. Replacements: S Coetzee, J Smith, L Pupuma, L Welemu, A van Schalkwyk, G Masimla, K Coleman, J Nel.

Dragons: Z Kirchner, A Hewitt, J Sage, J Dixon, J Rosser, D Jones, S Pretorius, S Hobbs, L Belcher, L Brown, J Davies, R Landman, H Keddie, O Griffiths, L Evans (captain). Replacements: E Shipp, G Ellis, L Fairbrother, M Williams, J Benjamin, D Babos, C Edwards, R Dyer.

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/dragons/16058522.TEAM_NEWS__Kirchner_back_at_favoured_full_back_for_Dragons__clash_with_Kings/

Interesting that Hallam Amos hasn't been released by Team Wales.

[Stone Motif]

I'd say so. Not having a regular outside half hasn't helped, but we've finally got a platform to play off and we still look shapeless behind the scrum a lot of the time. Ultimately that's his responsibility.

Wonder if the Kirchner to ten business was his brainchild? Deserves to walk if so.

[RiscaGame]

I agree on Connor. For now, he has to be the fall guy. Maybe Jackman wants a new coach, so he gets another transition season whilst the team bed in to the new coach’s style. Unless Maddocks or whoever the skills coach is has an increased say?

[RiscaGame]

Not a bad team out for Dragons, given the availability. Possibly as strong as we can go.

I guess Amos wasn’t released, due to having to fly late to SA?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Ah that's true. I thought it was an indicator that he'd be playing against Italy.

[mikey_dragon]

I hope Gruff Rees isn't his replacement.... And I expect there to be at least two or three changes to the Wales starting team for Italy. It's been hinted at and Gats rates Amos these days.

[Cardiff Dave]

Yeah, keep up Dave.

Said Cockers, on the way from the pavillion.

[Cardiff Dave]

They left on Sunday/Monday Dave.

Get out of the goldfish bowl. Probably the best thing they could've done.

Will they be coming back?

[Stone Motif]

They left on Sunday/Monday Dave.

Get out of the goldfish bowl. Probably the best thing they could've done.

Will they be coming back?

Not sure even our special brand of affinity is strong enough that we can start including parts of South Africa in Gwent

[RiscaGame]

Ah that's true. I thought it was an indicator that he'd be playing against Italy.

Well I suspect that might happen too.

[RiscaGame]

They left on Sunday/Monday Dave.

Get out of the goldfish bowl. Probably the best thing they could've done.

Will they be coming back?

Not sure even our special brand of affinity is strong enough that we can start including parts of South Africa in Gwent

Build it and they will come Stone

[mikey_dragon]

Whilst some are quite skeptical about the look of the team for next season, others think that we'll be some all-conquering force in European rugby... and I'm not so sure about that. If we get a hard-hitting lock (and I can't see it being Charteris but he's perhaps a little past it anyway) to work alongside Hill then our pack does start to look a lot better - maybe get Huw Taylor to cover 6 and see if he's any good as I think we're more suited to playing the Scarlets way, like the way Wales are trying to adopt. When we're done there I say we snap up Sam Moore from Sale....

Outside of fly-half we look well covered in the backs. No surprise that Connor is going as we already have good backs that aren't really firing as well as they should.

[Cardiff Dave]

They left on Sunday/Monday Dave.

Get out of the goldfish bowl. Probably the best thing they could've done.

Will they be coming back?

Not sure even our special brand of affinity is strong enough that we can start including parts of South Africa in Gwent

Pronounced "iffinity" down that way, i'd guess.
The regional boundaries are fluid though aren't they? Moved before and can move again.

[Cardiff Dave]

Southern Kings v Dragons....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_d861AqVk

[VinceWLB]

Losing 38-13 to the hapless Kings.

I knew Dragons were bad but would never have imagined bad to that extent...

[mikey_dragon]

Well that makes us the hapless ones then. Good on Kings for getting a convincing first win though.

So what does the future hold for Dragons? Looking at the stats from the game a new defence coach is a must have. There has to be some sort of a response here, something, anything. Writing the season off was never an acceptable answer.

[VinceWLB]

Well that makes us the hapless ones then. Good on Kings for getting a convincing first win though.

So what does the future hold for Dragons? Looking at the stats from the game a new defence coach is a must have. There has to be some sort of a response here, something, anything. Writing the season off was never an acceptable answer.

I don't even think defense is the main problem.. Scoring only one try against the worst ever defense in the pro12/14 is a more alarming problem. I think Jackman's view on modern rugby might be outdated, see what he did to Grenoble.

[mikey_dragon]

Well we are getting a new attack coach for sure.

[Stone Motif]

Well that makes us the hapless ones then. Good on Kings for getting a convincing first win though.

So what does the future hold for Dragons? Looking at the stats from the game a new defence coach is a must have. There has to be some sort of a response here, something, anything. Writing the season off was never an acceptable answer.

I don't even think defense is the main problem.. Scoring only one try against the worst ever defense in the pro12/14 is a more alarming problem. I think Jackman's view on modern rugby might be outdated, see what he did to Grenoble.

That's horseshizzle, Jackman played a 2-4-2 at Grenoble in attack, more and more teams are going Auckland. He just hasn't got a platform, awful pack options and half backs appalling.

[Cardiff Dave]

A new front 5 for ewes....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s4slliAtQU

[LordDowlais]

This is the poorest Dragons side I have ever seen, no guts, no fight, no direction. I can only hope that this is the lowest point, and only upwards from here.

What a waste of a region.

[Stone Motif]

This is the poorest Dragons side I have ever seen, no guts, no fight, no direction. I can only hope that this is the lowest point, and only upwards from here.

What a waste of a region.

This is the poorest troll I have ever seen. No brains, no job, no sense, no humour. I can only hope that this is the lowest point,and radio silence continues from here.

What a waste of oxygen :thumbs down:

[Luckless Pedestrian]

We lost the second half 31 - 0. That's a f*cking capitulation.

[SecretFly]

Sometimes results are so bad that you might declare it players voting with their performances.

So..., players maybe saying they want a new coach already?

[Guest]

Sometimes results are so bad that you might declare it players voting with their performances.

So..., players maybe saying they want a new coach already?

The thing is, Jackman has told a lot of the squad that they're out the door next year.  He's gone in the media and said that some players should be trying to put in a good performance to put themselves in the shop window and attract other clubs, rather than saying they should put in good performances to try to secure a future at the Dragons.  And he talks about a 'clear-out' so the number being shown the door sounds quite high.  I think therefore a number of the lads getting starts are ones who will be jettisoned at the end of the season, and perhaps their motivation is not particularly high.  They'll know already who they are.  Maybe they've already found clubs so are just going through the motions?  Jackman's straight talking is one thing, but I'm not sure his man-management is working too well - and perhaps that is what's happening to performances on the pitch?

[Stone Motif]

Sometimes results are so bad that you might declare it players voting with their performances.

So..., players maybe saying they want a new coach already?

The thing is, Jackman has told a lot of the squad that they're out the door next year.  He's gone in the media and said that some players should be trying to put in a good performance to put themselves in the shop window and attract other clubs, rather than saying they should put in good performances to try to secure a future at the Dragons.  And he talks about a 'clear-out' so the number being shown the door sounds quite high.  I think therefore a number of the lads getting starts are ones who will be jettisoned at the end of the season, and perhaps their motivation is not particularly high.  They'll know already who they are.  Maybe they've already found clubs so are just going through the motions?  Jackman's straight talking is one thing, but I'm not sure his man-management is working too well - and perhaps that is what's happening to performances on the pitch?

If they are dialling it in it just proves Jackman right that they don't have the goods for pro rugby, the number one requirement of which for any sportsperson really is ultimately a will to win every time you step on the pitch, court, ring, ice rink, whatever

[SecretFly]

Well Jackson seems to be using tough talk/actions. But you have to be able to back that guff up and all it'll take is a new season for people to be asking him to show them the goods after the fine warlike words.

This is the man that a few weeks ago said that Ireland doesn't have the players to play a fast, opportunistic, attacking game ............. a man who fails to see that players are under a regime (coaches) that direct the game plan we end up playing.

So Jackman - I don't know - a casual man's coach in my opinion; but maybe he'll upgrade his reputation and make me realise the errors of my current attitude in time.

[Guest]

Let's flip this on its head: would another of the top Pro14 coaches do any better with the current Dragons squad? The likes of Pivac, Rennie, Schmidt of old? Would we be mid-table or better with them? If so then obviously it's the poor coaching we've had over the last few years in Jackman, Jones and Jones. If not then can we really ask for more from Jackman? The answer is probably somewhere in the middle. Jackman will do better with an improved squad but probably won't be able to take them as far as one of those other top coaches could.

[VinceWLB]

Let's flip this on its head: would another of the top Pro14 coaches do any better with the current Dragons squad?  The likes of Pivac, Rennie, Schmidt of old?  Would we be mid-table or better with them?  If so then obviously it's the poor coaching we've had over the last few years in Jackman, Jones and Jones.  If not then can we really ask for more from Jackman?  The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.  Jackman will do better with an improved squad but probably won't be able to take them as far as one of those other top coaches could.  

You just have to look at Zebre.. They had basically no preseason, a thin squad and yet with Bradley they have been playing as a team and even been playing some exciting rugby at times.

Maybe Dragons would be mid table team like Connacht/Benetton with a better coach. I don't think the squad is worse than previous seasons, yet results are.

[Stone Motif]

Let's flip this on its head: would another of the top Pro14 coaches do any better with the current Dragons squad?  The likes of Pivac, Rennie, Schmidt of old?  Would we be mid-table or better with them?  If so then obviously it's the poor coaching we've had over the last few years in Jackman, Jones and Jones.  If not then can we really ask for more from Jackman?  The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.  Jackman will do better with an improved squad but probably won't be able to take them as far as one of those other top coaches could.  

It's an utterly appalling squad. Which of the players jettisoned will get pro contracts elsewhere? The majority are underpowered, and cannot make decisions under pressure. The drop off from the starting xv to the bench is the worst I've ever seen.

[Stone Motif]

Well Jackson seems to be using tough talk/actions.  But you have to be able to back that guff up and all it'll take is a new season for people to be asking him to show them the goods after the fine warlike words.

This is the man that a few weeks ago said that Ireland doesn't have the players to play a fast, opportunistic, attacking game ............. a man who fails to see that players are under a regime (coaches) that direct the game plan we end up playing.

So Jackman - I don't know - a casual man's coach in my opinion; but maybe he'll upgrade his reputation and make me realise the errors of my current attitude in time.

Brilliant Freudian slip in line one, with reference to Ireland's ability to play a fast attacking game.

[Stone Motif]

Let's flip this on its head: would another of the top Pro14 coaches do any better with the current Dragons squad?  The likes of Pivac, Rennie, Schmidt of old?  Would we be mid-table or better with them?  If so then obviously it's the poor coaching we've had over the last few years in Jackman, Jones and Jones.  If not then can we really ask for more from Jackman?  The answer is probably somewhere in the middle.  Jackman will do better with an improved squad but probably won't be able to take them as far as one of those other top coaches could.  

You just have to look at Zebre.. They had basically no preseason, a thin squad and yet with Bradley they have been playing as a team and even been playing some exciting rugby at times.

Maybe Dragons would be mid table team like Connacht/Benetton with a better coach. I don't think the squad is worse than previous seasons, yet results are.

Where is the squad better than in previous seasons?

[Stone Motif]

http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/16071244.CHRIS_KIRWAN__Jackman_must_be_given_chance_to_change_the_record_at_the_Dragons/

Boom

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