The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

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The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by R!skysports on Wed 03 Jan 2018, 10:51 am

First topic message reminder :

Bicker away......

A nice video to start with

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds9dwHAfy_M


Glasgow Warriors are one of the two professional rugby union sides from Scotland. The team plays in the Pro14 league and in the European Professional Club Rugby tournaments. In the 2014-15 season they won the Pro12 title and became the first Scottish team to win a major trophy in rugby union's professional era. #theyrock

Edinburgh Rugby (formerly Edinburgh Reivers, Edinburgh Gunners and a real rugby team) is one of the two professional rugby teams from Scotland, although hard to determine if they play rugby. The club competes dances in the Pro14, along with Glasgow Warriors, its oldest rival. Since January 2017, Edinburgh plays most of its home games at Myreside Stadium with selected matches at BT Murrayfield.


kiss



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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RDW_Scotland on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 11:11 am


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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by NeilyBroon on Thu 15 Feb 2018, 12:22 pm

Cummings and Swinson are back for weegies tomorrow, great news for them and potentially for Scotland squad. It'd be nice to see Cummings get a run out!
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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 8:55 am

SHC put in a fantastic performance last night, a performance that was well timed (or badly) given he's been told he's not worth as much as he claimed.

For all the talk of his passing sometimes being wayward he was instrumental in 2 of our tries, doing things that Fowles and Kennedy just never do. He is also a top class kicker and if he leaves none of our remaining Kickers could claim to be that.

Obviously we don't know just how much he was asking for but it is a big gamble to let him go IMO.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by BigGee on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 9:22 am

SHC is an enigma. If he played like that regularly, then surely we would not be having this conversation about worth of contract.

Trouble is he does not and he has failed to impress Cockers, despite clearly being the most talented SH on Edinburgh books. It all seemed to come to him to easily when he was younger and he has just not kicked on.

As I said before, maybe a move is what he really needs to kick start him. I hope so.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RDW_Scotland on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 9:47 am

Good to see Adam Hastings put in a strong performance last night. Rennie has used him sparingly but he definitely looks ready to step up.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by jimbopip on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 10:12 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:Good to see Adam Hastings put in a strong performance last night. Rennie has used him sparingly but he definitely looks ready to step up.

Hastings' playing style is rather like Blair Kinghorn's running action. In the same way BK doesn't seem to be running fast but always leaves defenders in his slipstream Hastings doesn't seem to be doing much but then you look at the replays and you notice how much he influences the play. The delay on the pass which put Niko in for his try was sublime. Young Hastings may not be as full of tricks as Dancer but he may turn out to be just as influential over a season. Fingers Crossed

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by George Carlin on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 1:50 pm

Very good results for our franchises - a pleasure to read them this morning.
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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by Hazel Sapling on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 6:05 pm

Great start for Cardiff at home to Munster. 19-0 in the first half hour. May do Glasgow a big favour here.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by Eejit on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 7:23 pm

Shame that Munster got the bonus point, but still Cardiff did us a favour there.

Agree with comments about Hastings, he was excellent yesterday.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by BigGee on Sat 17 Feb 2018, 10:39 pm

Good to see Hastings getting a run of games and showing what he can do. He does seem to have a lot of time on the ball and can control a game very well.

All very promising for the future.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by Welly on Sun 18 Feb 2018, 12:49 am

According to TRP LH Pierre Shoeman and Jaun pablo Socino have signed for Edinburgh.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 10:15 am

Both Edinburgh & Glasgow seem to be doing a create job of bringing through young forwards in the 2nd and back row.

For the last two games Carmichael has been superb for Edinburgh against decent opposition, along with Ritchie, Bradbury & Crosbie.
Glasgow with Cummings, M. Fagerson & Smith are coming on and Ashe (who seems to have been around for ages) is only 24.

Wonder why there is such a sudden wealth of players who can play in the backrow, but other positions such…well basically the backs are struggling by comparison.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by BigGee on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 10:25 am

Suggestions in the press that the SRU are not pursuing the Worcester option now but are looking at maybe taking a 20% holding in Newcastle Falcons.

That would be a lot easier to swallow for both the RFU, who would not like another union controlling one of their teams and for Scottish fans, who kind of see Newcastle as our third team in any case, due to the proximity and the number of Scottish internationals and players who have passed through.

Early days but watch this space.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 10:29 am

There's been a few tweets from Edinburgh lately showing pictures from training and there's a guy with dreadlocks that I don't recognise, and there's been no mention of him.

Any ideas?

The group picture here

https://twitter.com/EdinburghRugby/status/965533002188107777

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by tigertattie on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 12:35 pm

I'm loving that Hastings is having a good run of games and by all accounts has been playing well.

He is in my humble opinion, turning into a viable alternative to Finn. It's early days yet, I'm not saying chuck him out there against England or even Italy at the end of the tournament. But certainly he's worth keeping with and possibly even taking on a summer tour to see how learns.

Hastings is the exact opposite to Finn in terms of mentality as a stand off. Finn is this mad genius who floats between the sublime and the ridiculous whereas Hastings just seems to be a consistent element. He doesn't appear to be trying to take on the world and while he is the linch pin in his team, he sees himself as the creator to give his team mates the opportunity to score. Finn sees things differently, he comes across as viewing his team mates as being there to finish off whatever he creates.

Finn's style is like Beauden Barrett, Hastings' style is like Dan Carter (No I'm not saying these players are directly comparable)
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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by BigGee on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 1:33 pm

Hastings has played well in both the last two games and Toonie has had him training with the Scotland team.

He seems to have a lot of time on the ball, which is always a sign of a good FH.

His chance may come this summer against the US or Canada. I am sure he will use that tour to blood a few of the youngsters.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:04 pm

Old news, but Edinburgh have now confirmed that no more games will be played at Myerside this season.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:08 pm

Where did you see that - they (or anyone else) hasn't tweeted anything about it?

Have ST members (al 12 of them) been contacted or something?

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:09 pm

Aye ST email

Edin Rugby wrote:Edinburgh will play the remainder of the 2017/18 season at BT Murrayfield as the team eyes a crucial finish to both the Guinness PRO14 and European Challenge Cup.

Richard Cockerill’s side sit third in Conference B following Friday night’s stunning victory over Ulster at the Kingspan Stadium in Belfast. Guinness PRO14 will confirm dates and times of the remaining fixtures at 3pm today (Monday 19 February).

Edinburgh will also welcome Cardiff Blues to the capital on Saturday 31 March for the European quarter-final showdown.

The club recognises that alternating between venues does not deliver a consistent matchday experience for supporters, nor does it provide consistency for Richard Cockerill’s squad in generating successful results on the pitch. The move is part of a wider review of venue operations beyond the end of the current season. Supporters will be the first to be informed of further developments when the club is able to communicate them.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by George Carlin on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:13 pm

EWT Spoons wrote:Aye ST email

Edin Rugby wrote:Edinburgh will play the remainder of the 2017/18 season at BT Murrayfield as the team eyes a crucial finish to both the Guinness PRO14 and European Challenge Cup.

Richard Cockerill’s side sit third in Conference B following Friday night’s stunning victory over Ulster at the Kingspan Stadium in Belfast. Guinness PRO14 will confirm dates and times of the remaining fixtures at 3pm today (Monday 19 February).

Edinburgh will also welcome Cardiff Blues to the capital on Saturday 31 March for the European quarter-final showdown.

The club recognises that alternating between venues does not deliver a consistent matchday experience for supporters, nor does it provide consistency for Richard Cockerill’s squad in generating successful results on the pitch. The move is part of a wider review of venue operations beyond the end of the current season. Supporters will be the first to be informed of further developments when the club is able to communicate them.
So the rumours that the SRU is considering setting up posts and a stand in FES' back garden are true:

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:16 pm

I have noticed that the SRU are interested in investing in the English set-up, but how do all our Scottish members feel about this ?

Would you rather the SRU started off a new side with the potential to gain access to the Pro14 like the WRU are doing with RGC1404 in North Wales ?

Or would you rather they went in with the English ?

Would you rather the SRU used the money to get more Scottish officials up to speed and into the Pro14 ?

Or are they doing that anyway ?

Not trying to stir things up, I am genuinely interested to gather your thoughts on this situation.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:16 pm

It is all a bit of a mess isn't it - fair play for the SRU trying something different but it does ask the question why bother with Myreside at all if the back pitches were going to be an option 12 months later.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 2:47 pm

At the time they ruled the back pitches out on the basis of costs (or at least that’s what they told the fans), based on nothing at all really, I assume something has changed from a temp stand point of view, which allows them to use them rather than building some expensive infrastructure, which means the back pitches are now viable.

That and fixing the flooding issue

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by EWT Spoons on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 3:09 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I have noticed that the SRU are interested in investing in the English set-up, but how do all our Scottish members feel about this ?

Would you rather the SRU started off a new side with the potential to gain access to the Pro14 like the WRU are doing with RGC1404 in North Wales ?

Or would you rather they went in with the English ?

Would you rather the SRU used the money to get more Scottish officials up to speed and into the Pro14 ?

Or are they doing that anyway ?

Not trying to stir things up, I am genuinely interested to gather your thoughts on this situation.

LD

Hard to say, as there is very little info out there currently. If there are tangible benefits in having a stake in Newcastle then I’m all for it, if it means some of our players get a run out at a different level then brilliant, but until we know more then couldn’t say whether it will be good or bad.

I think we would all love a 3rd pro team, but it’s not going to happen anytime soon, as we can’t afford it currently. This super6 league the SRU are cooking up could in time provide a 3rd pro team, but we’re not sure who’s involved in that yet, so still early days.

SRU do need to do more to get officials in the game, but sadly our player numbers are pretty low, so focus is understandably on getting folk playing the game first. I think they are doing stuff to get more officials qualified and I am aware of a few players who are currently undergoing courses etc to get them up to speed for when they retire. Whether that comes to anything, who knows, they might not bother staying in the game, but work is underway.

The SRU do seem to have a host of things on the go, and with the exception of Edinburgh’s home ground (and actually any communication from Edinburgh in general) they seem to be doing a decent job of it. I think there is a lot of goodwill towards them at the moment from the fans, and after a decade of cost cutting and lack of rugby nous, it’s a nice situation to be in.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 3:16 pm

What levels of rugby are there below Glasgow and Edinburgh. I know there is a Scottish Premiership, but is that amateur or semi pro ?

What has happened to such historic clubs like Watsonians, Hawick, Melrose ? Are they still supported to a decent level ?

IS the Scottish league a breading ground for Scottish players ?

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 3:19 pm

Having watched the Ulster vs Edinburgh I can't help be overcome with a sharp pang of jealousy when looking at Ravenhill (the kingspan stadium).

Obviously a purpose built stadium to accomodate Edinburgh at the back of murrayfield is too much to ask for as a professional sports team.

Edinburgh as a club will struggle until we get an identity to rally behind.
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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 3:23 pm

LordDowlais wrote:What levels of rugby are there below Glasgow and Edinburgh. I know there is a Scottish Premiership, but is that amateur or semi pro ?

What has happened to such historic clubs like Watsonians, Hawick, Melrose ? Are they still supported to a decent level ?

IS the Scottish league a breading ground for Scottish players ?

Remember those bozos who rocked up for the Scarlets vs Toulon match to specifically heckle the Scarlets from a neighboring rugby club?

That's what the scottish borders is like. A franchise doesn't work there because of deeply seeded tribal loyalties, that's why the border reivers folded.
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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 3:37 pm

Are the clubs still running well and are they well supported ?

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 3:45 pm

Amateur rugby in Scotland is not in a good place - dwindling playing numbers and clubs are struggling financially. Some clubs in the top league are relatively well financed but it isn't overly sustainable - there is a long list of clubs who have tried to buy beyond their means (paying players) but haven't been able to sustain it and have fallen down the leagues.

You'd be lucky to get a few hundred people watching a club game, maybe more if there was a big event on or a local rivalry that has been well advertised.

Again the Super 6 is meant to help this situation, but it requires a lot of investment from the clubs to supplement the money the SRU will give to each club. The investment needed will be more than what the top clubs are currently paying, so I really don't know how this will be achieved.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 3:58 pm

Ah, so it seems bleaker for you lot as it does for us down here then. Your'e not on your own in that respect though, Welsh rugby has hit rock bottom over the last few years, there does seem to be some respite at the minute, and the WRU are always trying to spice things up.

Although the Welsh Premiership seems better supported than the Scottish one, but our is semi-pro not amateur like yours.

Oh well, only time will tell if investing money into the English structure will work I suppose, personally I think the SRU have their priorities in the wrong place.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 4:01 pm

LordDowlais wrote:Are the clubs still running well and are they well supported ?

Not being a borderer myself I would think so. The clubs run deep in those towns. Kelso, Hawick, Jed Forrest, Melrose, Gala, Selkirk etc. These names are synonymous with rugby up here and have produced the bulk of our home grown talent over the years. Kelly Brown, Grieg Laidlaw, Stuart Hogg, Ross Ford, Alex Dunbar although the unwashed from Ayr are catching up a bit....

They are well supported and whilst I would rather we could invest money in clubs here, it has often been the case similar to wales that regional rugby is hard to get momentum behind. It's different when you have a city based franchise like Cardiff or the Ospreys, but in places like Llanelli where the wider Camarthen area has many clubs that have fierce local rivalries, getting those rivalries put aside and coming together and supporting a regional team based in a city that you see as "the enemy" will give you a bit of an insight.

Outside of the borders my local club Kirkcaldy pull in decent crowds of about 400, which isn't too bad.

I would have personally liked the SRU to support London Scottish, there is a bit of shared history, but Wuss appears to have been selected and I for one am interested to see how this experiment pans out.
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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 4:10 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I would have personally liked the SRU to support London Scottish, there is a bit of shared history, but Wuss appears to have been selected and I for one am interested to see how this experiment pans out.

The WRU wanted to do the same with London Welsh, they wanted to invest, and put players in there and have them play in England, they also wanted to put academy players from the regions there as well. But the PRL blocked it. So I don't know how the SRU will get around this one.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RuggerRadge2611 on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 4:17 pm

LordDowlais wrote:
RuggerRadge2611 wrote:I would have personally liked the SRU to support London Scottish, there is a bit of shared history, but Wuss appears to have been selected and I for one am interested to see how this experiment pans out.

The WRU wanted to do the same with London Welsh, they wanted to invest, and put players in there and have them play in England, they also wanted to put academy players from the regions there as well. But the PRL blocked it. So I don't know how the SRU will get around this one.

My thoughts exactly. It's not as if the SRU or Scottish rugby act on something before thinking it through... picard

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2012/jan/12/steven-shingler-scotland-wales

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 4:42 pm

Radge I don't think Borders rugby is quite as rosy as you are making out. While all the clubs have great history a lot of them are also struggling for playing numbers and supporters - not helped by a lot of young folk moving off to the cities for work when they leave school.

Melrose and Hawick are the only clubs in the top league and Hawick are dangerously close to the foot of the table, and heavily rely on local lads. Melrose are top of the league and are one of the richest clubs due to the Melrose 7s, but even they are a long way off being able to fund a semi-pro team on their own (they will pay a lot of their players though).

I know from my own playing experience that a lot of the clubs are struggling - back in the day these teams would be able to put out 3 or 4 teams at the weekend, but now some big name borders clubs sometimes struggle to put out a 2nd XV.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by BigGee on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 4:57 pm

The Worcester idea seems dead in the water now, in truth it always seemed like a long shot that was going to please neither the club, its fans, the RFU or Scottish rugby supporters.

A smaller share of a club like Newcastle, which has a long history of playing Scottish players, due to the geographical proximity to Scotland (unlike Worcester) would no doubt be much more acceptable to just about everyone. The proposed minority shareholding would hopefully not ruffle many feathers at Twickenham either.

Newcastle are never going to be the wealthiest of the AP clubs and have actually done very well recently with the resources they have, a combination of astute coaching and tapping into local recourses (including the Scottish borders).

The owner of Newcastle said in the Times article that they were not even at the first date stage, let alone a marriage, so clearly this has got a long long way to run, if it ever gets there at all.

As a concept though it is far better than the proposed Worcester one, which was probably never really a goer for lots of reasons.

We will watch this one with interest.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by LordDowlais on Mon 19 Feb 2018, 5:01 pm

The reason why the PRL blocked the WRU's move with London Welsh was because of the NEQ rules, I think the English clubs have to have some qty of English players, so then the PRL can get payment off the RFU for it's players. So I would not imagine the PRL would be happy to have one of it's clubs choc-a-bloc full of Scottish players.

I could be wrong though. OK

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by furra_linee on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 11:31 am


If the SRU buys a place on the board then they will supposedly be able to place more SQP players into the Newcastle academy and payroll, to fill as many as 7 of every match day squad (or more if the players are dual qualified.)

Looking at the Newcastle Squad right now I think there are 4 out and out Scots (Welsh, Hogg, Lawson, Harris), plus another 3 that are dual qualified (Davidson, Graham, Tait )

You'd only get another 4-5 places for Scots lads, plus more in the academy, for a one-off payment of 2 - 3 million plus a share of the losses, currently running at 2 mill per year. Is this worth it for the SRU? Is this really worth it for Newcastle? What happens if Newcastle have to reject the next Jonny Wilkinson in favour of the next Scott Wight?

At least player salaries would be kept off the SRU balance sheet. The SRU would have to match the EQP funding for it to make sense though.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by BigGee on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 11:58 am

I don't think anyone wants the SRU to simply buy places in the Falcons academy or in the team, apart from anything else, it is just not going to happen, they will have to be good enough rugby players first and foremost and Scottish second. I can't imagine that Dean Richards or any coach worth their salt would accept being told who to play.

For a lot of Scottish players though, it is about opportunity to show that they could be decent professional players and maybe even internationals. With our two team structure, which seems unlikely to change at any time soon or even ever, that can at times be very difficult for them. We do undoubtedly lose players because we don't get the chance to develop them.

The advantage for Newcastle is that they get investment into their club and possibly the access to good promising players.

If this was to come to pass, then it would clearly have to be within the scope of the existing EQ rules, though that is actually fairly easy to get around, as so many players (especialy exiles) are dual qualified.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by Tramptastic on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 12:19 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:Radge I don't think Borders rugby is quite as rosy as you are making out. While all the clubs have great history a lot of them are also struggling for playing numbers and supporters - not helped by a lot of young folk moving off to the cities for work when they leave school.

Melrose and Hawick are the only clubs in the top league and Hawick are dangerously close to the foot of the table, and heavily rely on local lads. Melrose are top of the league and are one of the richest clubs due to the Melrose 7s, but even they are a long way off being able to fund a semi-pro team on their own (they will pay a lot of their players though).

I know from my own playing experience that a lot of the clubs are struggling - back in the day these teams would be able to put out 3 or 4 teams at the weekend, but now some big name borders clubs sometimes struggle to put out a 2nd XV.

Something else to note is the use of ringers within the club system (yes I know every club does it so why should we care?) - basically i play for Lismore (bottom of bottom rugby in scotland, without dipping in to the reserve leagues) as such we have a squad that likes playing rugby and doesn't want to have to step up to the same physical level as, for example Melrose/Watsonians/Accies etc. If they wanted to do so they'd go and play for those clubs. As such we are in a league with a few clubs that sometimes (read a lot of a time) benefit from ringers - Trinity nick from accies, Gala YM from Gala, Earlston from Melrose. As such when we go to play these times the ringers kick the cr*p out of us and a lot of the lads say "I didn't want to play at that level so why am I now playing against players from that level??" and subsequently declare themselves only a 2XV player or just quit.

We don't use ringers and subsequently suffer for it and the SRU does nothing to manage it. One year Gala YM won the East Region shield by thumping us using 10 players from Gala. Murray Mccalum played against us that day and our tighthead did a backflip out the scrum.

So as an advertisement to playing amateur rugby in Scotland how does that sound? Basically unless you train twice a week and go to the gym another 2 times a week with a massive off season training regime you can't compete. I am genuinely at the point where I don't enjoy my rugby any more and have started missing training cause whats the point?


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Post by furra_linee on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 12:33 pm

BigGee wrote:

If this was to come to pass, then it would clearly have to be within the scope of the existing EQ rules, though that is actually fairly easy to get around, as so many players (especialy exiles) are dual qualified.

Its only easy to get around until they have to choose between Scotland and England. If Vellacott chose England to protect his place in the club team, then developing dual qualifieds like him won't help Scotland at all.

There probably are kids missing out due to the bottleneck in Scotland, but if they were good enough then they would pick up a place in England right now.
So the SRU need a guarantee to make any difference.

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Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 12:47 pm

Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Radge I don't think Borders rugby is quite as rosy as you are making out. While all the clubs have great history a lot of them are also struggling for playing numbers and supporters - not helped by a lot of young folk moving off to the cities for work when they leave school.

Melrose and Hawick are the only clubs in the top league and Hawick are dangerously close to the foot of the table, and heavily rely on local lads. Melrose are top of the league and are one of the richest clubs due to the Melrose 7s, but even they are a long way off being able to fund a semi-pro team on their own (they will pay a lot of their players though).

I know from my own playing experience that a lot of the clubs are struggling - back in the day these teams would be able to put out 3 or 4 teams at the weekend, but now some big name borders clubs sometimes struggle to put out a 2nd XV.

Something else to note is the use of ringers within the club system (yes I know every club does it so why should we care?) - basically i play for Lismore (bottom of bottom rugby in scotland, without dipping in to the reserve leagues) as such we have a squad that likes playing rugby and doesn't want to have to step up to the same physical level as, for example Melrose/Watsonians/Accies etc. If they wanted to do so they'd go and play for those clubs. As such we are in a league with a few clubs that sometimes (read a lot of a time) benefit from ringers - Trinity nick from accies, Gala YM from Gala, Earlston from Melrose. As such when we go to play these times the ringers kick the cr*p out of us and a lot of the lads say "I didn't want to play at that level so why am I now playing against players from that level??" and subsequently declare themselves only a 2XV player or just quit.

We don't use ringers and subsequently suffer for it and the SRU does nothing to manage it. One year Gala YM won the East Region shield by thumping us using 10 players from Gala. Murray Mccalum played against us that day and our tighthead did a backflip out the scrum.

So as an advertisement to playing amateur rugby in Scotland how does that sound? Basically unless you train twice a week and go to the gym another 2 times a week with a massive off season training regime you can't compete. I am genuinely at the point where I don't enjoy my rugby any more and have started missing training cause whats the point?


On a similar note, I played 2nd XV rugby mainly (before I moved to London) and while we were meant to be coming up against another 2nd or 3rd XV we often found ourselves facing the 1st or 2nd XV because they had their game cancelled. It isn’t overly subtle when you beat the team earlier in the season then when you play them in the return leg later in the season they are suddenly much, much better and suddenly have a much bigger crowd watching them!

We were playing Accies ‘3rd XV’ the day of the Samoa World Cup game and they were mainly 2s and some 1s players – former Edinburgh pro Lewis Niven was playing FFS.

You’ll be in the same league as Barnton then? They are the offshoot from the split of RHC, where most of the 1s players went to the new club Barnton (which will likely be renamed Royal High). There’s no way they should be in that league as they have scored crickets scores against most teams, but the SRU rules were that new clubs (which Barnton technically are) have to start from the bottom. On the plus side though the vast majority of the playing squad are from the Royal High School or played Royal High club rugby as teenagers – there are no ringers from higher leagues brought in due to partnership arrangements like you have described. They have a bit of a battle going on with Ross High just now but they are probably favourites to be promoted up to a higher level and away from the social rugby of East 2.

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by Tramptastic on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 12:58 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:Radge I don't think Borders rugby is quite as rosy as you are making out. While all the clubs have great history a lot of them are also struggling for playing numbers and supporters - not helped by a lot of young folk moving off to the cities for work when they leave school.

Melrose and Hawick are the only clubs in the top league and Hawick are dangerously close to the foot of the table, and heavily rely on local lads. Melrose are top of the league and are one of the richest clubs due to the Melrose 7s, but even they are a long way off being able to fund a semi-pro team on their own (they will pay a lot of their players though).

I know from my own playing experience that a lot of the clubs are struggling - back in the day these teams would be able to put out 3 or 4 teams at the weekend, but now some big name borders clubs sometimes struggle to put out a 2nd XV.

Something else to note is the use of ringers within the club system (yes I know every club does it so why should we care?) - basically i play for Lismore (bottom of bottom rugby in scotland, without dipping in to the reserve leagues) as such we have a squad that likes playing rugby and doesn't want to have to step up to the same physical level as, for example Melrose/Watsonians/Accies etc. If they wanted to do so they'd go and play for those clubs. As such we are in a league with a few clubs that sometimes (read a lot of a time) benefit from ringers - Trinity nick from accies, Gala YM from Gala, Earlston from Melrose. As such when we go to play these times the ringers kick the cr*p out of us and a lot of the lads say "I didn't want to play at that level so why am I now playing against players from that level??" and subsequently declare themselves only a 2XV player or just quit.

We don't use ringers and subsequently suffer for it and the SRU does nothing to manage it. One year Gala YM won the East Region shield by thumping us using 10 players from Gala. Murray Mccalum played against us that day and our tighthead did a backflip out the scrum.

So as an advertisement to playing amateur rugby in Scotland how does that sound? Basically unless you train twice a week and go to the gym another 2 times a week with a massive off season training regime you can't compete. I am genuinely at the point where I don't enjoy my rugby any more and have started missing training cause whats the point?


On a similar note, I played 2nd XV rugby mainly (before I moved to London) and while we were meant to be coming up against another 2nd or 3rd XV we often found ourselves facing the 1st or 2nd XV because they had their game cancelled. It isn’t overly subtle when you beat the team earlier in the season then when you play them in the return leg later in the season they are suddenly much, much better and suddenly have a much bigger crowd watching them!

We were playing Accies ‘3rd XV’ the day of the Samoa World Cup game and they were mainly 2s and some 1s players – former Edinburgh pro Lewis Niven was playing FFS.

You’ll be in the same league as Barnton then? They are the offshoot from the split of RHC, where most of the 1s players went to the new club Barnton (which will likely be renamed Royal High). There’s no way they should be in that league as they have scored crickets scores against most teams, but the SRU rules were that new clubs (which Barnton technically are) have to start from the bottom.  On the plus side though the vast majority of the playing squad are from the Royal High School or played Royal High club rugby as teenagers – there are no ringers from higher leagues brought in due to partnership arrangements like you have described. They have a bit of a battle going on with Ross High just now but they are probably favourites to be promoted up to a higher level and away from the social rugby of East 2.

Aye we got done by them. The thing that we came to hate there was they knew they shouldnt be that low but whilst playing us their coaching team/bench brought a cow bell so every time they broke through the midfield on the way to another try they'd ring it for like a minute and give us a some fairly foul abuse. The other thing that annoyed us was we lost about 6 guys to injury by the 75th minute, they were up by about a hunner points and the ref came to our captain when we had 13 guys left standing and said we should end this as its becoming dangerous. We were happy with that but Barnton then gave the ref some fairly awful back chat for it and then on their facebook page accused us of time wasting and mucking them about - we were just happy some of our players were alive by the end of that.

Its a shame because out of the club split/fallout we thought Barnton sounded like the "good guys" but they were a bit on the awful side to be honest

Its not their fault they are too good for the league but at the same time it doesn't help their cause acting like that. Did you used to play for RHC?

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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by tigertattie on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 12:59 pm

Hard one to cal Mr Tastic

I honestly think that teams should have to declare squads and no one from out these squads should be allowed to play. Certainly for First XV teams.

The use of ringers comes across as the same as the attitude of many clubs where the ethos is all wrong as they are concerned about the short term win rather than to look long term.

I've seen it at my club where a coach brings along a pal from an old club who is clearly played at a much higher level and subsequently makes other players look far inferior. We've had many a player leave to go to another club because the alleged ringer has come in, shunted them out of their place, but then the ringer has disappeared (they tend to have little loyalty) and all of a sudden we're wishing our old player would come back. But why would he. Why show loyalty to a club that hasn't shown any to you???

Likewise, years ago, we had a front row crisis as West Of Scotland were going to rock up with a very recently retired Gordon Bullock playing for them (retired but playing "amateur" rugby for cash). Front rowers were suddenly booked up for weddings or were getting random hamstring injuries and declaring themselves unfit to play.

Where are WoS now though? Languishing near the bottom of Div2. This shows that ringers might provide a short term answer but in the long term, they don't benefit the club.

Why then do we get ringers? Partly jobs for the boys. For example, they give you a short term boost and can give a coach under pressure some much need wins if his job is under the spot light. When that coach leaves though, the ringer goes too and where does that leave the club?

Folk moan about ringers but the only ones who can stop this are the clubs themselves! The only situation where the SRU can effect this, and I think they really really should, is when Glasgow and Edinburgh send rehabilitating players to the amateur teams to get game time. Pro players should not be playing games against amateur players. Its just dangerous.
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Re: The average age of a Scotland Front row is nnnnnnnnn19 - A thread for Glasgow and Edinburgh go to banter war…..

Post by Tramptastic on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 1:04 pm

tigertattie wrote:Hard one to cal Mr Tastic

I honestly think that teams should have to declare squads and no one from out these squads should be allowed to play. Certainly for First XV teams.

The use of ringers comes across as the same as the attitude of many clubs where the ethos is all wrong as they are concerned about the short term win rather than to look long term.

I've seen it at my club where a coach brings along a pal from an old club who is clearly played at a much higher level and subsequently makes other players look far inferior. We've had many a player leave to go to another club because the alleged ringer has come in, shunted them out of their place, but then the ringer has disappeared (they tend to have little loyalty) and all of a sudden we're wishing our old player would come back. But why would he. Why show loyalty to a club that hasn't shown any to you???

Likewise, years ago, we had a front row crisis as West Of Scotland were going to rock up with a very recently retired Gordon Bullock playing for them (retired but playing "amateur" rugby for cash). Front rowers were suddenly booked up for weddings or were getting random hamstring injuries and declaring themselves unfit to play.

Where are WoS now though? Languishing near the bottom of Div2. This shows that ringers might provide a short term answer but in the long term, they don't benefit the club.

Why then do we get ringers? Partly jobs for the boys. For example, they give you a short term boost and can give a coach under pressure some much need wins if his job is under the spot light. When that coach leaves though, the ringer goes too and where does that leave the club?

Folk moan about ringers but the only ones who can stop this are the clubs themselves! The only situation where the SRU can effect this, and I think they really really should, is when Glasgow and Edinburgh send rehabilitating players to the amateur teams to get game time. Pro players should not be playing games against amateur players. Its just dangerous.

Its a shame like and it really does nothing to expand the playing pool. There should be proof of "membership fees" paid or some such to lock someone in to a club. The clubs live and die by people wanting to play for them and its something we feel a lot of pressure from - people still wanting to play for us. We have a good clubhouse, floodlights on the training pitch, very social (without the abusiveness you get with some larger rugby clubs "Lads lads lads") but if we keep playing against these higher teams it does nothing for player retention.

Ban ringers entirely.

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Post by RDW_Scotland on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 1:49 pm

Tramptastic wrote:

Aye we got done by them. The thing that we came to hate there was they knew they shouldnt be that low but whilst playing us their coaching team/bench brought a cow bell so every time they broke through the midfield on the way to another try they'd ring it for like a minute and give us a some fairly foul abuse. The other thing that annoyed us was we lost about 6 guys to injury by the 75th minute, they were up by about a hunner points and the ref came to our captain when we had 13 guys left standing and said we should end this as its becoming dangerous. We were happy with that but Barnton then gave the ref some fairly awful back chat for it and then on their facebook page accused us of time wasting and mucking them about - we were just happy some of our players were alive by the end of that.

Its a shame because out of the club split/fallout we thought Barnton sounded like the "good guys" but they were a bit on the awful side to be honest

Its not their fault they are too good for the league but at the same time it doesn't help their cause acting like that. Did you used to play for RHC?

Really sorry to hear about your experience. I moved to London before the split happened so wasn't involved in any of the decision making behind it or the resulting fallout, but it was instigated by the Barnton side. I've had no involvement with the new club other than following how they are getting on using Facebook, as I know most of the guys from when I was playing, and have known them for years. I've got to say your experience sounds the complete opposite from what I would expect from the guys, and certainly nothing like that happened when I was there. I'm sure they would claim a different side of the story, but ultimately it isn't good that visiting clubs leave feeling aggrieved at the treatment they have received, and it is disappointing to hear. Probably best we don't get into it here as I have no knowledge of the game and this being a public forum and all!

tattie - I'm not sure declaring squads would really work, as although some players would mainly play 1st XV you'd have a lot who jump between 1st and 2nd XV level. You'd also have players who have been out long term injured and are needing to get gametime at the lower level first. Ultimately we need to increase the number of games players can play, and if you declare squads you'd likely end up with players not playing because they are listed in one squad but haven't been picked, but are banned from playing for the 2s.

Another bugbear of mine is the rules on substitutions - even at reserve level if you have no sub front rows you can have no subs at all. If you only have 1 reserve front row I think you can only then have another 2 subs. One of the main reasons games at that level get cancelled is due to a lack of props, and there were many times that we had players wanting to play but we couldn't pick them on the bench as we didn't have enough reserve front rows. How does that help anyone??

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Post by Tramptastic on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 2:01 pm

RDW_Scotland wrote:
Tramptastic wrote:

Aye we got done by them. The thing that we came to hate there was they knew they shouldnt be that low but whilst playing us their coaching team/bench brought a cow bell so every time they broke through the midfield on the way to another try they'd ring it for like a minute and give us a some fairly foul abuse. The other thing that annoyed us was we lost about 6 guys to injury by the 75th minute, they were up by about a hunner points and the ref came to our captain when we had 13 guys left standing and said we should end this as its becoming dangerous. We were happy with that but Barnton then gave the ref some fairly awful back chat for it and then on their facebook page accused us of time wasting and mucking them about - we were just happy some of our players were alive by the end of that.

Its a shame because out of the club split/fallout we thought Barnton sounded like the "good guys" but they were a bit on the awful side to be honest

Its not their fault they are too good for the league but at the same time it doesn't help their cause acting like that. Did you used to play for RHC?

Really sorry to hear about your experience. I moved to London before the split happened so wasn't involved in any of the decision making behind it or the resulting fallout, but it was instigated by the Barnton side. I've had no involvement with the new club other than following how they are getting on using Facebook, as I know most of the guys from when I was playing, and have known them for years. I've got to say your experience sounds the complete opposite from what I would expect from the guys, and certainly nothing like that happened when I was there. I'm sure they would claim a different side of the story, but ultimately it isn't good that visiting clubs leave feeling aggrieved at the treatment they have received, and it is disappointing to hear. Probably best we don't get into it here as I have no knowledge of the game and this being a public forum and all!

tattie - I'm not sure declaring squads would really work, as although some players would mainly play 1st XV you'd have a lot who jump between 1st and 2nd XV level. You'd also have players who have been out long term injured and are needing to get gametime at the lower level first. Ultimately we need to increase the number of games players can play, and if you declare squads you'd likely end up with players not playing because they are listed in one squad but haven't been picked, but are banned from playing for the 2s.

Another bugbear of mine is the rules on substitutions - even at reserve level if you have no sub front rows you can have no subs at all. If you only have 1 reserve front row I think you can only then have another 2 subs. One of the main reasons games at that level get cancelled is due to a lack of props, and there were many times that we had players wanting to play but we couldn't pick them on the bench as we didn't have enough reserve front rows. How does that help anyone??

The rules on substitutions is awful, i get at the high level where things are uber competitive this would be important but for the regional leagues where player numbers in specialised positions are low it shouldn't matter.

In our league as far as im aware if your last 5ish games have been for the 1xv you cannot play for the 2xv which is fairly decent

I know, its a shame about Barnton as their player/coach, a saffer (you may know who i mean) used to play for us and was a really nice guy so we were expecting different! It's all well and good being very good rugby players but i mean you have to mindful of where in the leagues you are!

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Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 21 Feb 2018, 10:00 am

Matt Scott confirmed returning to Edinburgh.

Good news!

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Post by RDW_Scotland on Wed 21 Feb 2018, 10:01 am

Scotland centre Matt Scott has today penned a two-year deal to re-join his hometown club after two seasons in the English Premiership with Gloucester.

Capped 39-times for Scotland, the 27-year-old started his career with Edinburgh in 2011 and amassed 74 appearances for the capital club before moving south to join the Cherry and Whites.

The centre, who crossed the whitewash 15 times during a five-year spell with Edinburgh, will re-join the squad in the summer.

On signing for Edinburgh, Scott said: “I’m very happy to have agreed to return to Edinburgh Rugby.

“Having spoken with Richard Cockerill about what he has done so far at the club and his vision for the future, I have no doubt that it will be a fantastic environment moving forward.

“I can’t wait to get back playing with some of my best mates and pushing to win trophies with my hometown club.

“I’ve had a great two years at Gloucester and believe I’m a far better player and person from my experiences in the Premiership.”

A product of Currie High School, Scott’s early career saw him represent Edinburgh district, as well as Scotland at U19 and U20 levels.

The centre signed his first professional contract with Edinburgh in April 2011 and made his competitive debut for the club against Cardiff Blues in September of the same year.

Scott earned his first call-up to the Scotland squad ahead of the 2012 6 Nations and gained his first cap as a replacement in the 32-14 defeat against Ireland at the Aviva Stadium.

In the same year, the centre made his first international start in the historic 9-6 victory over Australia in New South Wales and continued as first choice for the other wins over Fiji and Samoa.

Scott played a key role during Edinburgh’s successful 2011/12 season in which they became the first Scottish team to qualify for a European Cup semi-final.

On the signing of Scott, Edinburgh Head Coach, Richard Cockerill said: “We’re delighted that Matt will be joining the squad next season. He’s a terrific player, who has a lot of experience both domestically and on the international stage.

“Matt has shown throughout his career that he’s a dynamic ball carrier and his leadership abilities on and off the field will only help develop the strong culture that we’re building here in Edinburgh.”

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Post by BigGee on Wed 21 Feb 2018, 10:17 am

A good bit of business for both parties.

Matt Scott is almost certainly a better player now than when he went down south and hopefully the best years of his career are still ahead of him.

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Post by EWT Spoons on Wed 21 Feb 2018, 10:20 am

I just hope the worst of his injury woes are behind him.

He was picking up a lot of niggles before he went to Gloucester and he seems to have spent a fair bit of time injured down there.

However, assuming the worst is behind him, then that is a cracking signing and the Edinburgh team for next season is looking stronger and stronger.

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