Ireland 6 Nations chat

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Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by wolfball on Mon 08 Jan 2018, 3:57 pm

First topic message reminder :

Geoff on the Ulster thread created a clever analysis on squad depth and I am taking a crack at a similar one for Ireland in advance of the 6 nations:

My assumptions are based on a squad of 36 (not the 40 Joe named last year). Players categories into 4 ratings:

World class = top three in position in world, and/or Lions test starter
International class = would make the team for other tier 1 nations
Below international class - would not make the team for other tier 1 nations
Exciting prospect - show potential to be a real asset

Ideally we have one world class and 2 international class per position.

TH (3)
World class - Furlong
International class - Ryan
Exciting prospect - Porter

Assessment - Drop off after Furlong, but not as steep as with hooker

Hooker (3)
International class - Best, Cronin (instead of Tracy)
Below international class - Herring

Assessment - Our weakest forward position, with a big drop off after Best

LH (3)
World class - McGrath (Lions bench for all three tests, scrapes in here)
International class - Healy, Kilcoyne

Assessment - Most consistently strong position in front row, all three are great players and Healy may well rereach his world class heights in 2018. Add in Moore and its a great position for us

Lock (5)
International class - Henderson, Toner
Below international class - Dillane, Roux (instead of Treadwell)
Exciting prospect - Ryan

Assessment - good first team pair, with some exciting prospects coming through.

Flankers (6)
World class - POM
International class - VDF, Murphy (Instead of TOD, Ruddock and SOB out due to injury)
Exciting prospect - Leavy

Assessment - embarrasment of riches!

No. 8 (2)

International class - Stander, Conan
Assessment - Very strong, with multiple flankers also able to play there

Scrumhalf (3)
World class - Murray
Below international class - Marmion, McGrath

Assessment - big drop off after Murray. Marmion/McGrath neither have been able to fully translate provincial form to ireland

Flyhalf (3)
World class - Sexton
Below international class - Keatley
Exciting prospect - Carberry

Assessment - Sexton staying fit is essential to winning in Twickenham, the drop off after that is huge.

Centers (5)
International class - Henshaw, Aki,
Below international class -  Farrell
Exciting prospect -Scannell (Instead of Ringrose and McCloskey)

Assessment - strong, if not the most exciting group of players.

Wings (5)
International class - Earls
Below international class - Conway, McFadden (Instead of Byrne, Sweetnam)
Exciting prospect - Stockdale

Assessment - some exciting young players coming through, but think Earls will start

Fullback (2)
International class - Kearney
Exciting prospect - Larmour

Assessment - Kearney continues to show his class in the big games and will start 3/4 of the 6 nations, I think Larmour has a good shot of starting the others. TOH if not.


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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by geoff999rugby on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 11:09 am

eirebilly wrote:I wonder what the French tactics will be. I truly hope they do not target Sexton in the same way he has been targeted in years gone by...

I think that is exactly what they will do

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by marty2086 on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 11:15 am

geoff999rugby wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I wonder what the French tactics will be. I truly hope they do not target Sexton in the same way he has been targeted in years gone by...

I think that is exactly what they will do

And when France get the ball they will hope for some individual brilliance to breakdown Ireland

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by SecretFly on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 11:20 am

eirebilly wrote:I wonder what the French tactics will be. I truly hope they do not target Sexton in the same way he has been targeted in years gone by...

It's their job to target him (legally)...and I suppose it's then the job of the ref to make sure he stamps out anything suspect in the challenges.

Wasn't it Stander who praised Jalibert in one breath and then said, like all opposition 10s, he'll be getting attention to see how well he copes.

I know what you mean though with that line "in the same way", billy. I think Owens will be conscious of stamping out late hits, especially is Schmidt points the concern out to him earlier.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by eirebilly on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 11:35 am

SecretFly wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I wonder what the French tactics will be. I truly hope they do not target Sexton in the same way he has been targeted in years gone by...

It's their job to target him (legally)...and I suppose it's then the job of the ref to make sure he stamps out anything suspect in the challenges.

Wasn't it Stander who praised Jalibert in one breath and then said, like all opposition 10s, he'll be getting attention to see how well he copes.  

I know what you mean though with that line "in the same way", billy.  I think Owens will be conscious of stamping out late hits, especially is Schmidt points the concern out to him earlier.

Some of the hits Sexton has received were horrible. I remember Bastereaud aiming his head at Sexton in a tackle. It was deemed accidental but to me, there was nothing accidental about it.

Sexton is not someone who will shy away from the physical stuff and will give as good as he gets if its legal.
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 11:39 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:
the-goon wrote:As expected:

Ireland (v France)

15. Rob Kearney
14. Keith Earls
13. Robbie Henshaw
12. Bundee Aki
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Johnny Sexton
9. Conor Murray

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best (captain)
3. Tadhg Furlong
4. James Ryan
5. Iain Henderson
6. Peter O’Mahony
7. Josh van der Flier
8. CJ Stander

Replacements:

16. Sean Cronin
17. Jack McGrath
18. John Ryan
19. Devin Toner
20. Dan Leavy
21. Luke McGrath
22. Joey Carbery
23. Fergus McFadden

No complaints, pretty much the strongest 23 that could be picked.

No doubt what Ireland's tactics will be - that's an absolutely physically brutal Ireland team. Shame that Larmour isn't on the bench to offer an attacking threat - I can't really see what McFadden offers other than a bit of experience and versatility.  I suppose that sums up Schmidt as a coach!

This game is going to be utterly brutal.

That might be close to the biggest bunch of players we could put out. It definitely feels like McFadden is there as cannon fodder, he might well get most of his minutes from HIA replacement requirements. I think McFadden's game against Stockdale over christmas probably got him this place on the bench (Joey to cover 10 and fullback, mcfadden takes the wings and the centres could get mcfadden, sexton moving out a position or earls stepping in).

The back 3 might only ever see the ball when contesting kicks. Feels like a lot of pack runners with aki and henshaw punching it up midfield. Take the French head on and don't let them think they can bully us around the park.

We could lose 3-4 players off the back of this game from the rest of the tournament.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by RDW_Scotland on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 11:59 am

Scotland usually get a lot of injuries against France - last year's game was particularly brutal for us. I'm not saying they're dirty necessarily it is just they are the most physically brutal team in the competition. Luckily we have an 8 day turnaround before playing them in round 2 then a rest week after!

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by SecretFly on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 12:07 pm

I hope we don't lose any players, obviously. But I really hope Carbery has a run of good luck through the weeks. Larmour has shown he could be a big slice of an exciting future but this Carbery has the whole package too except maybe that bit of resilient bulk that he'll gain as he gets older. But he needs hard serious games to keep testing him and honing those instincts to be sharper still.
I know Kearney is numero uno. But I'd like to see Carbery on the field at some stages in this season -the same time as Sexton, Murray, Earls, Stockdale etc.....

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Sin é on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 12:15 pm

Telegraph have a Top 20 players of 6Ns. Six Irish players make it. Other Ireland players to make top 20 POM (13) & CJ (17).

10. Anthony Watson (England)

9. Alun Wyn Jones (Wales)

8. Mako Vunipola (England)

7. Keith Earls (Ireland)

6. Stuart Hogg (Scotland)

5. Johnny Sexton (Ireland)

4. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland)

3. Conor Murray (Ireland)

2. Maro Itoje (England)

1. Owen Farrell (England)
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by SecretFly on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 12:21 pm

Top 20 before the contest starts?  Premature?

I know I'm biased but if they're going to do that at this time.... the player with the gravitas of Number 1 is Sexton.  Lord of the Sith.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Sin é on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 12:33 pm

SecretFly wrote:Top 20 before the contest starts?  Premature?

I know I'm biased but if they're going to do that at this time.... the player with the gravitas of Number 1 is Sexton.  Lord of the Sith.

While I think Farrell & Itoje are good players, I don't get why both are so highly regarded to be No. 1 & 2.
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 1:46 pm

I agree. Farrell is ludicrously over rated. There is no doubt he is a good player but I don't thin he had a great six nations nor did he have a great Lions tour.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 2:52 pm

Sin é wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Top 20 before the contest starts?  Premature?

I know I'm biased but if they're going to do that at this time.... the player with the gravitas of Number 1 is Sexton.  Lord of the Sith.

While I think Farrell & Itoje are good players, I don't get why both are so highly regarded to be No. 1 & 2.

I'd expect the most important players would be outhalf, scrumhalf and TH Prop closely followed by the groundhogs no matter what the team


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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 2:58 pm

Are out half and fly half not the same?

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by thebandwagonsociety on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 3:15 pm

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Are out half and fly half not the same?

I stand corrected - i meant outhalf and scrumhalf.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 10:37 am

scrum halves don't get paid as much as 10s and THs

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Engine#4 on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 11:46 am

I expect Robbie Henshaw to be included in any such lists by the end of the tournament. Second only to Nacewa as Leinster player of the season so so far in my opinion.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by SecretFly on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 9:45 pm

Engine#4 wrote:I expect Robbie Henshaw to be included in any such lists by the end of the tournament. Second only to Nacewa as Leinster player of the season so so far in my opinion.

Shush. I want Nacewa to get another European Title. That would be a fairytale story for him and Leinster. So no...I won't say he's great yet. He's reasonably okay........alright for an old fella. Nothing special.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Cyril on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 9:53 pm

Horrible game won by the least awful side. Schmidt really needs to go.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by SecretFly on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 10:04 pm

Cyril wrote:Horrible game won by the least awful side. Schmidt really needs to go.

OK Glad you enjoyed it, Cyril. Sure England have it in the bag. Go show us the scintillating stuff against Italy.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by geoff999rugby on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 11:43 pm

I think Cyril is worried - Ireland now got 3 home games on the bounce

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Scottrf on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 11:47 pm

But we know none of those will affect the end result. You have to win at Twickenham.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by SecretFly on Sat 03 Feb 2018, 11:59 pm

Scottrf wrote:But we know none of those will affect the end result. You have to win at Twickenham.

Oh we know that, Scottrf. It's a long way to that game and by that time one or both of us might have lost more than one, and it mightn't be all that big a deal in the grand scheme of things. We'll both have to win a few more games to give the day meaning. But winning a game you thought you had lost is a bonus we're smiling about for now. The relief! Boy, it's a good feeling. One of the great days. A messy game but one of the great days.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Scottrf on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 12:00 am

No chance England lose 2 before the Ireland game. None.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by SecretFly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 12:02 am

Scottrf wrote:No chance England lose 2 before Twickenham. None.

Okay...pick up the Cup tomorrow and let the players go to Barbados for the duration.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Scottrf on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 12:05 am

Well Wales can still win the rest of their games, and Ireland too...

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by lostinwales on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 2:19 am

Scottrf wrote:But we know none of those will affect the end result. You have to win at Twickenham.

Put it this way Ireland are not going to win on points difference

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by carpet baboon on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 9:01 am

lostinwales wrote:
Scottrf wrote:But we know none of those will affect the end result. You have to win at Twickenham.

Put it this way Ireland are not going to win on points difference

Can you see into the future?

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by eirebilly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 9:47 am

Scottrf wrote:But we know none of those will affect the end result. You have to win at Twickenham.

I think Ireland first have to win two other very important matches prior to England. Wales, Gatland, is a far superior coach to Schmidt and more often than not seems to have Schmidt in his bag. Looking at the way both teams approached the games yesterday, Wales look in a far better position than Ireland.

Scotland will come good again, they came up against a perfectly set up Welsh side who took their game plan to pieces and put them under extreme pressure which led to their mistakes but at least Scotland came to play rugby. This could be a very close game.

Not even remotely focusing on England yet as Ireland first have to get through those two games (not really taking Italy into consideration).
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Scottrf on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 9:52 am

But even if you lose one of those, it's going to be on the final weekend too. Agree focus isn't there yet.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by eirebilly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 9:58 am

I was very sober coming into this 6N. I thought that Ireland would do well to win 3 games. I felt that Ireland would lose to England and that either Scotland or Wales would beat them at home as well.

Again I feel England will win the 6N but no GS as I feel that Scotland or Wales will beat them as well.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by wolfball on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 2:36 pm

eirebilly wrote:I was very sober coming into this 6N. I thought that Ireland would do well to win 3 games. I felt that Ireland would lose to England and that either Scotland or Wales would beat them at home as well.

Again I feel England will win the 6N but no GS as I feel that Scotland or Wales will beat them as well.


Thankfully you are wrong, and Ireland have a great chance to win the tournament with our second toughest match won and out of the way. Also, the fact that an Irish team that is renowned for not making come backs closed this game out will stand to us. Our biggest weakness was a lack of kicking yesterday along with not figuring how to mitigate the french breakdown work. On Gatland being a far superior coach, 3 welsh wins, 2 irish and a draw between them seems pretty even to me. We are a team still in transition with multiple 6 nations first caps, in an away fixture we've won 3 times in 40 years and we came away with a win and one of the great moments of irish rugby. Cheer up, it turned into a great day, and I have a feeling we will have more good moments than bad in this tournament.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by eirebilly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:01 pm

wolfball wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I was very sober coming into this 6N. I thought that Ireland would do well to win 3 games. I felt that Ireland would lose to England and that either Scotland or Wales would beat them at home as well.

Again I feel England will win the 6N but no GS as I feel that Scotland or Wales will beat them as well.


Thankfully you are wrong, and Ireland have a great chance to win the tournament with our second toughest match won and out of the way. Also, the fact that an Irish team that is renowned for not making come backs closed this game out will stand to us. Our biggest weakness was a lack of kicking yesterday along with not figuring how to mitigate the french breakdown work. On Gatland being a far superior coach, 3 welsh wins, 2 irish and a draw between them seems pretty even to me. We are a team still in transition with multiple 6 nations first caps, in an away fixture we've won 3 times in 40 years and we came away with a win and one of the great moments of irish rugby. Cheer up, it turned into a great day, and I have a feeling we will have more good moments than bad in this tournament.

How exactly am I wrong? I predicted a win against France, just feel Ireland will lose to England and one of either Scotland and Wales. Not exactly wrong yet am I?

I cant see how a very understrength French team could be considered Ireland's second toughest match, I would suggest that it should have been Irelands second easiest myself. Think Wales and Scotland are better than France.

Gatland, I do feel is a superior coach. There may not be much between them results wise but I feel he is a far cleverer coach at working out opposition's tactics and countering them. He does this with arguably far less depth in his squad than Ireland have.

I am not down and don't need cheering up, Ireland won and I am happy. There is nothing wrong with questioning the way Schmidt approached that game yesterday.
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by SecretFly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 3:20 pm

Wales continue to be one of the best prepared sides in the world.  Yes, they sometimes don't have the 'world names' but they have a coach that is driven by the need to have his team at the fitness levels to play a hard game for 80 minutes over many weeks.  Usually he needs a week or two to get the machine ticking but this time they are ready to roll earlier, it seems.

So all good.  I've always said it, never denied it - Gatland has a mean spirit and a drive to push his players to the limit.  He's not overly concerned how they get on later in their day job of Regions/etc but he wants them ready physically to endure tough competitions.  He's a man of his word in that department.  I'd admire his tenacity in that department.  They never look second to any team in terms of the fitness levels to play fast, hard and loose International standard rugby for 80 through a number of weeks.

The methodology of game plans though has of course been questioned.  Nobody can say he's gotten that bit right all the time.  It's come in for much criticism over the years.  Wales rankings swing wildly at times and their placements in 6N swing from the extremes too.

It's only the first weekend - no conclusions can be reached from a first weekend.  If France goes on to take a few big scalps then people will review how 'easy' they were for us in France.  I didn't see an easy side.  I saw a side outplaying Ireland at some of our own game.  Like someone said yesterday, it was a cancelling out game between the two.  Stalemate.  If you kick too much, as some seemed to want, then on such a day the ball might be slipping out of hands and off France goes through the space that Ireland's chasing after a kick can create.

I think Ireland played to the conditions and met a resilient France ready to meet them in the centre of the field and stay there.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by wolfball on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 6:13 pm

eirebilly wrote:
wolfball wrote:
eirebilly wrote:I was very sober coming into this 6N. I thought that Ireland would do well to win 3 games. I felt that Ireland would lose to England and that either Scotland or Wales would beat them at home as well.

Again I feel England will win the 6N but no GS as I feel that Scotland or Wales will beat them as well.


Thankfully you are wrong, and Ireland have a great chance to win the tournament with our second toughest match won and out of the way. Also, the fact that an Irish team that is renowned for not making come backs closed this game out will stand to us. Our biggest weakness was a lack of kicking yesterday along with not figuring how to mitigate the french breakdown work. On Gatland being a far superior coach, 3 welsh wins, 2 irish and a draw between them seems pretty even to me. We are a team still in transition with multiple 6 nations first caps, in an away fixture we've won 3 times in 40 years and we came away with a win and one of the great moments of irish rugby. Cheer up, it turned into a great day, and I have a feeling we will have more good moments than bad in this tournament.

How exactly am I wrong? I predicted a win against France, just feel Ireland will lose to England and one of either Scotland and Wales. Not exactly wrong yet am I?

I cant see how a very understrength French team could be considered Ireland's second toughest match, I would suggest that it should have been Irelands second easiest myself. Think Wales and Scotland are better than France.

Gatland, I do feel is a superior coach. There may not be much between them results wise but I feel he is a far cleverer coach at working out opposition's tactics and countering them. He does this with arguably far less depth in his squad than Ireland have.

I am not down and don't need cheering up, Ireland won and I am happy. There is nothing wrong with questioning the way Schmidt approached that game yesterday.

Not wrong yet, though I have noticed you love to point out your accurate predictions while forgetting to mention the times you are wrong, all the while giving opinions without actually relying on facts to back them up. There is nothing wrong with thinking Gatland is the superior coach, but you need to make a specific argument for why as the results tell a completely different story. Because Schmidt has a overall 70% win record vs 50% for Gatland. Gatland has won 10% of matches against the big 3 SH. Schmidt 55%. Now I expect Schmidt's numbers to decline as per a reversion to the mean for Irish teams closer to 50% over time, but the results are clear on who out thinks opposition more, unless you think that Ireland are a FAR better team than Wales? I think Schmidt got alot wrong against France. I thought in general our breakdown play was atrocious and we kicked far too little from 10. Basically I think if we played like the conservative schmidt team of 2014 that is so derided on here we would have won more comfortably. Ie if we played like the last 5 minutes for the whole game we would have done better.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by eirebilly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 6:26 pm

wolfball wrote:

Not wrong yet, though I have noticed you love to point out your accurate predictions while forgetting to mention the times you are wrong, all the while giving opinions without actually relying on facts to back them up. There is nothing wrong with thinking Gatland is the superior coach, but you need to make a specific argument for why as the results tell a completely different story. Because Schmidt has a overall 70% win record vs 50% for Gatland. Gatland has won 10% of matches against the big 3 SH. Schmidt 55%. Now I expect Schmidt's numbers to decline as per a reversion to the mean for Irish teams closer to 50% over time, but the results are clear on who out thinks opposition more, unless you think that Ireland are a FAR better team than Wales? I think Schmidt got alot wrong against France. I thought in general our breakdown play was atrocious and we kicked far too little from 10. Basically I think if we played like the conservative schmidt team of 2014 that is so derided on here we would have won more comfortably. Ie if we played like the last 5 minutes for the whole game we would have done better.

No, you quoted me as being wrong when in fact I am not.

I have always admitted when I have been wrong and am not afraid to stand corrected.

I believe that Gatland is a superior coach due to his 6N records. He is also one of the most successful Lions coaches ever (granted Schmidt has never coached the Lions). I do not think Ireland are a better team than Wales but do believe that Ireland has a far better strength in depth. I have stated and backed up with points but people seem to cherry pick comments and twist them to suit their own points.

I have not stated I want Schmidt out, I have stated that I am frustrated at his approach (Picking a very attacking Leinster based team and getting them to play exactly different than they are used).

I am really unsure why my comments draw such criticism, maybe I do not explain myself well enough on forums. For that I apologise.
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 6:41 pm

Gatland hasnt won the six nations in the Schmidt era whereas Schmidt has two wins. Coincidence?

Cant understand why any Irish fan would dislike our most sucessful ever coach although its blatantly obvious why you dont like him Billy.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by eirebilly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 6:48 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:Gatland hasnt won the six nations in the Schmidt era whereas Schmidt has two wins. Coincidence?

Cant understand why any Irish fan would dislike our most sucessful ever coach although its blatantly obvious why you dont like him Billy.

My point is perfectly highlighted in this phrase about misquoting and assumption drawing to suit an agenda. You, guns, either cannot read what I have written or you lack the basic comprehension skills to communicate. I did not say I do not like him nor that I want him out.

There is a major difference between frustration at a playing style and disliking a coach.
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by SecretFly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 7:14 pm

Well how are we going to do against Italy then?  Given how England dealt with them without really working up too much sweat............... how should we be approaching them?

No complacency but no over-respecting either?  Go for them to get a bounce into our stride before considerably tougher games on paper at least.... or hold off and let them attack and stick within our more controlled selves?

I want to say they should be easy but that all depends on how we treat them.  If we stand off for big sections in the game, they'll find the confidence to attack.  I want more assurance that we want to be ruthless when/if we can be.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 7:27 pm

Ireland’s backline is the main problem, in my view. Murray and Sexton know each other well. Aki and Henshaw look like they’re still on their first date - with Sexton as chaperone. Stockdale, Earls and Kearney look like they’re from three different provinces and don’t play together that often.

Up front is less of a problem, but still.
Leavy should have started. Ruddock and O’Brien are a miss. And I still find myself asking: Is Stander really a test 8?

Assuming that Schmidt will rotate for next week, hopefully Conan gets some game time. And Farrell or Scannell in midfield with maybe Larmour or Conway coming into the selection mix for the back three. The pack needs heft but some mobility too and in the back maybe a bit more light-stepping against a somewhat inexperienced Italian side.
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by SecretFly on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 7:37 pm

Drop Carbery in at 15, to take attention off Sexton and Murray as playmakers. I'd go further and say give McGrath a crack with Sexton. If we're honest about wanting to see a more fluidly attacking side in action then let's honestly name the players that might bring it.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 7:47 pm

SecretFly wrote:Drop Carbery in at 15, to take attention off Sexton and Murray as playmakers.  I'd go further and say give McGrath a crack with Sexton.  If we're honest about wanting to see a more fluidly attacking side in action then let's honestly name the players that might bring it.  

Yep. Indeed, the backup 9s and 10s need to start a game. Schmidt should reinforce his post match comment about the team can’t rely on Sexton to get them out of a hole. Best way to achieve that is not select him. Let Keatley see if he can shine. With Scannell and Farrell outside him. And they’ll know each other.
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 7:52 pm

eirebilly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Gatland hasnt won the six nations in the Schmidt era whereas Schmidt has two wins. Coincidence?

Cant understand why any Irish fan would dislike our most sucessful ever coach although its blatantly obvious why you dont like him Billy.

My point is perfectly highlighted in this phrase about misquoting and assumption drawing to suit an agenda. You, guns, either cannot read what I have written or you lack the basic comprehension skills to communicate. I did not say I do not like him nor that I want him out.

There is a major difference between frustration at a playing style and disliking a coach.

Its obvious you dont. You are always whinging about something.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 7:56 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:Gatland hasnt won the six nations in the Schmidt era whereas Schmidt has two wins. Coincidence?

Cant understand why any Irish fan would dislike our most sucessful ever coach although its blatantly obvious why you dont like him Billy.

My point is perfectly highlighted in this phrase about misquoting and assumption drawing to suit an agenda. You, guns, either cannot read what I have written or you lack the basic comprehension skills to communicate. I did not say I do not like him nor that I want him out.

There is a major difference between frustration at a playing style and disliking a coach.

Its obvious you dont. You are always whinging about something.

How about focusing on the post rather than the poster?
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Collapse2005 on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 7:57 pm

How about you mind your own business?

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by LeinsterFan4life on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 8:15 pm

eirebilly wrote:
wolfball wrote:

Not wrong yet, though I have noticed you love to point out your accurate predictions while forgetting to mention the times you are wrong, all the while giving opinions without actually relying on facts to back them up. There is nothing wrong with thinking Gatland is the superior coach, but you need to make a specific argument for why as the results tell a completely different story. Because Schmidt has a overall 70% win record vs 50% for Gatland. Gatland has won 10% of matches against the big 3 SH. Schmidt 55%. Now I expect Schmidt's numbers to decline as per a reversion to the mean for Irish teams closer to 50% over time, but the results are clear on who out thinks opposition more, unless you think that Ireland are a FAR better team than Wales? I think Schmidt got alot wrong against France. I thought in general our breakdown play was atrocious and we kicked far too little from 10. Basically I think if we played like the conservative schmidt team of 2014 that is so derided on here we would have won more comfortably. Ie if we played like the last 5 minutes for the whole game we would have done better.

No, you quoted me as being wrong when in fact I am not.

I have always admitted when I have been wrong and am not afraid to stand corrected.

I believe that Gatland is a superior coach due to his 6N records. He is also one of the most successful Lions coaches ever (granted Schmidt has never coached the Lions). I do not think Ireland are a better team than Wales but do believe that Ireland has a far better strength in depth. I have stated and backed up with points but people seem to cherry pick comments and twist them to suit their own points.

I have not stated I want Schmidt out, I have stated that I am frustrated at his approach (Picking a very attacking Leinster based team and getting them to play exactly different than they are used).

I am really unsure why my comments draw such criticism, maybe I do not explain myself well enough on forums. For that I apologise.
Not too much difference in this performance and the ones away to Exeter and Montpellier. In fact Leinster had upwards of 30 phases multiple times against Exeter. This is another huge step up from those games again and space is at a premium. Plus the weather conditions really were quite poor, as confirmed by Murray.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 8:43 pm

Collapse2005 wrote:How about you mind your own business?

Seriously? On a public discussion forum?
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by Pot Hale on Sun 04 Feb 2018, 9:00 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
wolfball wrote:

Not wrong yet, though I have noticed you love to point out your accurate predictions while forgetting to mention the times you are wrong, all the while giving opinions without actually relying on facts to back them up. There is nothing wrong with thinking Gatland is the superior coach, but you need to make a specific argument for why as the results tell a completely different story. Because Schmidt has a overall 70% win record vs 50% for Gatland. Gatland has won 10% of matches against the big 3 SH. Schmidt 55%. Now I expect Schmidt's numbers to decline as per a reversion to the mean for Irish teams closer to 50% over time, but the results are clear on who out thinks opposition more, unless you think that Ireland are a FAR better team than Wales? I think Schmidt got alot wrong against France. I thought in general our breakdown play was atrocious and we kicked far too little from 10. Basically I think if we played like the conservative schmidt team of 2014 that is so derided on here we would have won more comfortably. Ie if we played like the last 5 minutes for the whole game we would have done better.

No, you quoted me as being wrong when in fact I am not.

I have always admitted when I have been wrong and am not afraid to stand corrected.

I believe that Gatland is a superior coach due to his 6N records. He is also one of the most successful Lions coaches ever (granted Schmidt has never coached the Lions). I do not think Ireland are a better team than Wales but do believe that Ireland has a far better strength in depth. I have stated and backed up with points but people seem to cherry pick comments and twist them to suit their own points.

I have not stated I want Schmidt out, I have stated that I am frustrated at his approach (Picking a very attacking Leinster based team and getting them to play exactly different than they are used).

I am really unsure why my comments draw such criticism, maybe I do not explain myself well enough on forums. For that I apologise.
Not too much difference in this performance and the ones away to Exeter and Montpellier. In fact Leinster had upwards of 30 phases multiple times against Exeter. This is another huge step up from those games again and space is at a premium. Plus the weather conditions really were quite poor, as confirmed by Murray.

Good observation, L4L.
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by GunsGermsV2 on Mon 05 Feb 2018, 8:59 am

Pot Hale wrote:
Collapse2005 wrote:How about you mind your own business?

Seriously?  On a public discussion forum?

Well then at least be consistent with your stupid comments. I was responding to ad hominin remarks myself.

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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by eirebilly on Mon 05 Feb 2018, 10:46 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Not too much difference in this performance and the ones away to Exeter and Montpellier. In fact Leinster had upwards of 30 phases multiple times against Exeter. This is another huge step up from those games again and space is at a premium. Plus the weather conditions really were quite poor, as confirmed by Murray.

Not saying that Leinster do not have that ability but from what I have seen, Leinster have a very good defensive but also very attacking team. They are more intent on winning matches than not loosing them. I thought that Ireland were solid in defence but looked dis-jointed in attack.
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Re: Ireland 6 Nations chat

Post by eirebilly on Mon 05 Feb 2018, 11:34 am

I wonder if there will be any changes for the Italy game. Personally I would like to see Murray rested and McGrath or Cooney given a chance to see how they will show up. Probably lean towards McGrath due to his understanding with Sexton for the for 60mins and then have Cooney on for the last 20 (or have Murray on the bench if all is not going to plan).

I would also have Byrne in the squad as back up to Sexton ahead of Carbery as back up 10.

Lamour could be given the 15 shirt and have Carbery on the bench with Kearney also getting a rest.

Not wholesale changes but ones I think would be valuable.

Any news on VdF?
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