Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

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Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 9:25 pm

As Olly roundly predicted (and I can tell you, he aggressively told people), England have stormed the Ashes and now move forwards to a one-day series with the Aussies.

Tonight, they name the squad for New Zealand, with Vince expected to keep his place for more convincing knocks, whilst Liam Livingstone is tipped to get the call too.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by JDizzle on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 9:53 pm

Really not sure about Livingstone. He had a good CC season, but he looked like he’d never held a bat before against quality international bowlers in the T20s he played this summer. I know it’s only T20, but not the best signs. Give me Joe Clarke or Dan Lawrence!

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 10:01 pm

Ballance, Ball and Curran our

Livingstone and Wood in

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by JDizzle on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 10:05 pm

Bit harsh on Ball. Curran and Ballance, always coming.

Cook, Stoneman, Malan, Root, Vince, JB, Ali, Woakes, Wood, Broad, Anderson would be my guess.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 10:14 pm

JDizzle wrote:Really not sure about Livingstone. He had a good CC season, but he looked like he’d never held a bat before against quality international bowlers in the T20s he played this summer. I know it’s only T20, but not the best signs. Give me Joe Clarke or Dan Lawrence!

I don’t think you can judge on a couple of T20’s Dizzle! Averaging near 50 in Div 1 first class cricket, deserves a go.

Agree with your team below - obviously assuming Mr Stokes isn’t cleared by then
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by JDizzle on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 10:17 pm

It wasn’t that he didn’t score any runs, anyone can fail (especially in T20s), it was just that he looked totally clueless playing quality bowlers. Like barely be able to lay bat on ball bad!

Like you say, only a couple of T20s, and the selectors have seen more than me, but it has just stuck in my head it was that bad!

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 10:18 pm

With Stokes theoretically called up, does he get replaced once legal developments don’t develop at pace?

As was pointed out to me in a different thread by Gilly, the short series and turnaround probably stop drastic changes.

Not sold on Overton or Vince though. Happy to see Wood but hope more attempts to find express pace come to light. Swinging ball saves all...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by JDizzle on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 11:03 pm

Think Dobell of Cricinfo wrote that they have to keep selecting Stokes originally, but yeah, I don’t expect him to tour.

Saqib Mahmood of Lancs is a name to keep an eye on as a quick. Only 20, and hurls it down at a fair whack.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:30 am

Seems to me like Liam Livingstone will fit in just fine with the squad:-

http://www.espncricinfo.com/county-cricket-2015/content/story/910233.html
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 7:57 am

Im happy with Livingstone as an option at 3 ...although his selection shiws more muddled thinking. First they take Ballance over him to the Ashes knowing the issues Ballance had with short pitched bowling ....dont play him despite Vince being worse and not a natural or regular 3 ...then say theyll only pick players who are banging down the door...then promote Livingstone based on a medicore Lions 3 day game.
Hes got as good a chance as anyone of making it and a fine first class record...its just the way in which hes ended up there seems to be as baffling as the way they pick spinners.
(And on that note yay hes another mediocre leg spin option...what more could we want)

Have Clarke and Lawrence played test class attacks much? Yep hes inexperienced but that seems to be true of all england players when they go abroad. The county game isnt giving them the prep they need whether theyve been in it for 2 years or 10 .

No issue with Ball and Curran being dropped. Wood was always ahead of them...although Im slightly surprised that neither Broad nor Anderson have been rested given the excess workloads Anderson in particular faced. But they do need a morale boosting win and the reserves just arent there as we saw in Aus.

I also thought they might give Moeen a proper break but it does seem they will back him to the bitter end. Worst case would be taking him and not playing him which would show him as dropped rsther than rested and not give him the opportunity to recharge and train away from the pressure of a tour and associated life stresses. If he does play its hard to see a viable side with Crane in, and we lose the chance to give him a run and see if theres merit in considering him for the summer ...im a huge crane sceptic but equally aware of the need to look beyond moeen.
Best case if course is he just gets his mojo back hits a run a ball century and mops up 5 wickets in the first innings. In think we know which scenario is more likely though.
I guess some trust has to be given to Root and the coaches that they know Moeens mind and ehat makes him tick and whats needed to massage his fragile confidence. But evidence of the past suggests asking him to be a lead spinner and travel away from home whilst being uncertain of both his place and role in the side is not what puts him in a positive place.
He has been hard done by in some respects by England...moved around the batting order and asked to fill gaps as a batsman and bowler caused by the failings of otherd but how a guy with such a hugely inconsistent and overall pretty mediocre record in both disciplines has remained undroppable demonstrates the weakness of England.

Theres also been talk of putting big money into a spin academy ...we have had the pace programme failing to deliver pace for several years now, whilst it sounds like a good idea (why not sooner?) Im not greatly optimistic it will acheive much even if well funded. But hey at least they recognise theres a need to coach spinners and not rely on county cricket.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 9:30 am

I do totally agree with the muddled thinking by the selectors. Ballance should not have been chosen.for the Ashes tour but was and despite not having the chance to show his worth he is dropped for this tour. Stoneman and Vince got pkenty of chances and by and large failed but are selected. Curran was chosen over Mark Wood for the last two tests in the Ashes but now he is axed to be replaced by the afore-mentioned Wood.

I think Ali should have been rested. Let his finger injury heal and allow the coaches to work with him to tebuild his confidence and work on improving him as a spinner and look at Crane or snother spinner in the NZ tour.

England need to be looking at other options on this tour and sticking with Stoneman (perhaps) and Vince (definitely) is highly questionable. Vince has serious mental flaws which a lot of the times are harder to iron out than mere technical flaws. He has had two series now where he has gifted his wicket away so if they could not sort his flaw out after last summer then why should now be any different?


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:54 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 9:41 am

Essentially keeping faith with the Ashes squad. Sensible (in my view) change of Livingstone for Ballance : not that the latter got a chance , so he can be said to be unfortunate. But he was arguably a poor choice for batting reserve in the first place : they don't really need another left hander in the top order.
It seems Bayliss wants to give Vince and Stoneman a little more time. You can argue about that ; but I can't get too worked up over it as it's probably true to say England are usually too quick to discard players and all the swapping around still hasn't resulted in one new permanent batsman since Root in five years ! Well Bairstow ; but he had been tried before and in any case is a keeper. Incidentally : amid all the failed selections I note that YJB has pretty much settled the old wicket keeper debate ...I reckon his batting on the Ashes trip was a little disappointing - just the one big innings and several wasted starts - but haven't seen anyone criticizing his glove work lately. Score one for some patience ...

Ball did himself no good on the trip : shouldn't have been picked for Brisbane in my view and seems to have dropped down the Test
bowling pecking order rather abruptly. Curran was very much a spare...and might end up back aboard anyway if/ when Stokes is
ruled out ? Certainly I'm happy to see Wood selected . Doubts are always likely to surround his fitness but if he is OK in March he just might give the attack the extra pace they've been lacking.

Unless they were determined to rest Moeen , or Broad , there wasn't much likelihood of any other changes for a two Test series...the home summer might see some more rearrangeing. Will be interesting to see who actually makes the eleven , as once again there won't be much opportunity to retune between matches...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:01 am

CaledonianCraig wrote: ...

I think Ali should have been rested. Let his ginger injury heal ...

Craig - what's a ginger injury? I hope you're not suggesting he's suffered at the hands of a recent England all rounder! Shocked Wink

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:31 am

Still some time off but they have a number of possible options for NZ:

Cook Stoneman Root Malan. Vince Livingstone. Bairstow. Woakes Broad Wood Anderson (If it appears that the pitch offers not much to the spinners ...they would have three part time twirlers anyway)

Rather more likely Moeen for Woakes ; though I'd then be thinking back to the five bowler plan so either Vince or Livingstone misses out.

And if they prefer Overton for one of the quicks I wouldn't have a problem. Hard to get Crane another shot : can't see him as one of four bowlers at present so if he's to play ahead of Moeen (fine by me from a bowling viewpoint) then that batting looks a bit light. : Woakes at seven then Overton Broad Crane Anderson ? Hmmm.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 10:55 am

guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote: ...

I think Ali should have been rested. Let his ginger injury heal  ...

Craig - what's a ginger injury? I hope you're not suggesting he's suffered at the hands of a recent England all rounder! Shocked Wink

It's typo talk for finger injury. Very Happy
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:11 am

I think it'll likely be

Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Vince/Livingstone
Bairstow
Moeen
Woakes
Wood/Overton
Broad
Anderson

(presuming Stokes isn't available)

If the pitch is a real seamer, you could drop Moeen and have Overton play - with Woakes, Overton, Wood, Broad, Anderson as the tail (which isn't too bad). I don't really see how we can fit Crane into the side unless we play him as part of a 4 man attack, which seems like selection suicide.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:25 am

In terms of actual cricket, England's ODI side dispatched of a relatively strong Cricket Australia XI by 5 wickets today, chasing down 259 in 40.5 overs. 81 not out for Morgan, 52 for Hales and 40/36 for Roy/Bairstow respectively. the Aussies had Matt Renshaw, Travis Head, Chadd Sayers all playing amongst others

Bowling wise, poor days for Wood/Woakes, and Plunkett was quite expensive. Moeen/Rashid both bowled well, Rashid taking 3-45 off his 10 overs and Moeen 2-28 off his 10 overs
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:35 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I think it'll likely be

Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Vince/Livingstone
Bairstow
Moeen
Woakes
Wood/Overton
Broad
Anderson

(presuming Stokes isn't available)

If the pitch is a real seamer, you could drop Moeen and have Overton play - with Woakes, Overton, Wood, Broad, Anderson as the tail (which isn't too bad). I don't really see how we can fit Crane into the side unless we play him as part of a 4 man attack, which seems like selection suicide.

Probably not far off there , Olly.

Though if the pitch is a "real seamer" I'd reckon four fast bowlers is plenty and would pick the extra batsman instead of Moeen.


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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:38 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:In terms of actual cricket, England's ODI side dispatched of a relatively strong Cricket Australia XI by 5 wickets today, chasing down 259 in 40.5 overs. 81 not out for Morgan, 52 for Hales and 40/36 for Roy/Bairstow respectively. the Aussies had Matt Renshaw, Travis Head, Chadd Sayers all playing amongst others

Bowling wise, poor days for Wood/Woakes, and Plunkett was quite expensive. Moeen/Rashid both bowled well, Rashid taking 3-45 off his 10 overs and Moeen 2-28 off his 10 overs

Sounds like a bit of a road . I am sure BBC HYS will already be asking why Morgan and Hales weren't in the Test team Smile

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:48 am

alfie wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I think it'll likely be

Cook
Stoneman
Malan
Root
Vince/Livingstone
Bairstow
Moeen
Woakes
Wood/Overton
Broad
Anderson

(presuming Stokes isn't available)

If the pitch is a real seamer, you could drop Moeen and have Overton play - with Woakes, Overton, Wood, Broad, Anderson as the tail (which isn't too bad). I don't really see how we can fit Crane into the side unless we play him as part of a 4 man attack, which seems like selection suicide.

Probably not far off there , Olly.

Though if the pitch is a "real seamer" I'd reckon four fast bowlers is plenty and would pick the extra batsman instead of Moeen.


I think if you play only four seamers, Wood can't be one of them. With his injury record, you can't risk having him as part of a 4 man attack imo
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 12:02 pm

England are at a sort of crossroads. How do they want to go forward? Hard to beat at home but almost entirely beatable away from home then they can carry on along the route they are going. Their obsession with shoe-horning and pretending Moeen Ali is a frontline spinner is a no go for winning series on the road. They need to prioritize finding a true frontline spinner. If they truly value Ali they will have him revert primarily to being a batsman. Let him get his batting mojo back and perhaps he can help solve batting problems by slotting in further up the order. Ali has already shown time and again he won't spin England to victory on their travels so why continue with the pretence?
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 3:53 pm

alfie wrote:Essentially keeping faith with the Ashes squad.  Sensible (in my view) change of Livingstone for Ballance : not that the latter got a chance , so he can be said to be unfortunate. But he was arguably a poor choice for batting reserve in the first place : they don't really need another left hander in the top order.
It seems Bayliss wants to give Vince and Stoneman a little more time. You can argue about that ; but I can't get too worked up over it as it's probably true to say England are usually too quick to discard players and all the swapping around still hasn't resulted in one new permanent batsman since Root in five years !  Well Bairstow ; but he had been tried before and in any case is a keeper. Incidentally : amid all the failed selections I note that YJB has pretty much settled the old wicket keeper debate ...I reckon his batting on the Ashes trip was a little disappointing - just the one big innings and several wasted starts - but haven't seen anyone criticizing his glove work lately. Score one for some patience ...

Ball did himself no good on the trip : shouldn't have been picked for Brisbane in my view and seems to have dropped down the Test
bowling pecking order rather abruptly. Curran was very much a spare...and might end up back aboard anyway if/ when Stokes is
ruled out ?  Certainly I'm happy to see Wood selected . Doubts are always likely to surround his fitness but if he is OK in March he just might give the attack the extra pace they've been lacking.

Unless they were determined to rest Moeen , or Broad , there wasn't much likelihood of any other changes for a two Test series...the home summer might see some more rearrangeing.  Will be interesting to see who actually makes the eleven , as once again there won't be much opportunity to retune between matches...

Yeah, an understandable Test squad for New Zealand if not particularly exciting.

No massive problem for me with the three who have been chopped.

Curran only came in as a replacement for Finn who was Stokes' replacement. Curran didn't totally disgrace himself (despite a 3 figure bowling average) but equally didn't do anything more than to stay on the fringes of the radar when looking ahead, he's someone who is far more in the frame now for the white ball game. Ball had a poor solitary Test, he's never done much in the few Tests he's had and can't complain about being jettisoned. The return of Stokes (subject to the usual legal proceedings caveats) and Wood (subject to the usual worries about his fitness) seem right at this stage although whether either will be actually able to play is another matter.

As I said the other day, Ballance would appear unlucky having not played a Test on this Ashes tour. However, he would never have made my squad in the first place and I can understand the selectors wanting to have a closer look at Livingstone, even if only in the nets.

Just about fair enough to retain Stoneman and Vince in my book. Whilst they struggled, it needs to be recognised that they were up against a skilled and relentless quartet and so both probably merit a further and slightly gentler audition.

Whether others (particularly, Moeen, Broad, Woakes) would benefit more from a rest or the apparent encouragement of being named in the squad, I can't judge from this distance. It does need to be heavily kept in mind though that if players are to be rested or dropped, replacements need to be identified and called up. Sadly, I don't see too many obvious replacements at the current time - that has probably helped seal the deal on the inclusion of Stoneman and Vince.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 4:19 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
...

Theres also been talk of putting big money into a spin academy ...we have had the pace programme failing to deliver pace for several years now, whilst it sounds like a good idea (why not sooner?) Im not greatly optimistic it will acheive much even if well funded. But hey at least they recognise theres a need  to coach spinners and not rely on county cricket.

County cricket would be a lot more helpful to the development of spin bowlers if four-day matches were evenly scheduled throughout the season. Currently, half of the season's CC matches are played in the months of April and September (ie the opening and closing weeks of the season) when conditions are typically non spin friendly. For this reason, Crane was omitted from the Hampshire side at the start of the 2017 season. I don't blame Hants for that - they picked the appropriate team for the situation but it wasn't in Crane's interests or England's that his place went to a fourth or fifth seamer.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by JDizzle on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 6:05 pm

guildfordbat wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
...

Theres also been talk of putting big money into a spin academy ...we have had the pace programme failing to deliver pace for several years now, whilst it sounds like a good idea (why not sooner?) Im not greatly optimistic it will acheive much even if well funded. But hey at least they recognise theres a need  to coach spinners and not rely on county cricket.

County cricket would be a lot more helpful to the development of spin bowlers if four-day matches were evenly scheduled throughout the season. Currently, half of the season's CC matches are played in the months of April and September (ie the opening and closing weeks of the season) when conditions are typically non spin friendly. For this reason, Crane was omitted from the Hampshire side at the start of the 2017 season. I don't blame Hants for that - they picked the appropriate team for the situation but it wasn't in Crane's interests or England's that his place went to a fourth or fifth seamer.

And if the ECB didn't go around warning and investigating teams e.g. Somerset, who produce pitches that spin from Day 1. If it was a green top they wouldn't have batted an eyelid.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 11:44 pm

How long is Finn out for? Can he be handled carefully enough so he’s in good shape to bowl at top speeds in test series?

Such a shame that we got so many injury problems for this winter

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 8:43 am

JDizzle wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:
...

Theres also been talk of putting big money into a spin academy ...we have had the pace programme failing to deliver pace for several years now, whilst it sounds like a good idea (why not sooner?) Im not greatly optimistic it will acheive much even if well funded. But hey at least they recognise theres a need  to coach spinners and not rely on county cricket.

County cricket would be a lot more helpful to the development of spin bowlers if four-day matches were evenly scheduled throughout the season. Currently, half of the season's CC matches are played in the months of April and September (ie the opening and closing weeks of the season) when conditions are typically non spin friendly. For this reason, Crane was omitted from the Hampshire side at the start of the 2017 season. I don't blame Hants for that - they picked the appropriate team for the situation but it wasn't in Crane's interests or England's that his place went to a fourth or fifth seamer.

And if the ECB didn't go around warning and investigating teams e.g. Somerset, who produce pitches that spin from Day 1. If it was a green top they wouldn't have batted an eyelid.


The same has been argued for genuine pace. When a 41 year old Darren Steven trundling in at 70mph  gets better figures in a game than Philander busting a gut to produce 90mph inswinging yorkers yopu know your game has a problem.
 
Of course we have ended up in this position because of the need to have a viable T20 competition to keep the counties afloat and employing crickters at all. Unless the CC is given more subsidy by the ECB it will continue to be pushed to the margins and become increasingly irrelevant to the demands of test cricket. The grow and fionacial success of Surrey is both a good thing and potentially problematic for the future if others cant keep up.

Even as a Leicesterhsire fan (more follower in reality) by birthright I accept that the only real way forward is to reduce down the number of professional counties and have a ring fenced conferenced competition. Make sure the games are competitive and meaningful and played on a variety of surfaces. Give subsidy for players from the devleopment programmes being played; less journeymen pros and retired internationals clogging things up.
#othersports have done things like this with great success and pain along the way. The two division system was a step but that needs to be built on, the county game has dropped in relevance over the last few years and continues its decline as its marginalised for T20 and test players choose to go to the IPL or are rested. Without compeittive meangful first class cricket played between good sides in the sorts of conditions youll get in tests you simply dont have anywhere to devleop test ready players.

Its either that or the ECB needs to start funding proper Lions and devleopment squads to play first class games around the world against quality opponents. As it is most of the guys who've been out with the Lions barely played any comeptitive cricket and it seems more like an exersize in keeping coaches employed than giving them an opportunity to craft their game on foriegn pitches.
The West Indies tour this winter looks much better in that regard...3 4 day games and 3 50 over games, and a number of players who are genuinely in the frame for England in the short and medium term...including Livingstone who otherwise would be going into tests with no 3 or 4 day games playeds since September.
That of course does beg the question exactly what are they now judging his readiness for test cricket on if hes been selected before the meaningful Lions tour but wasnt deemed good enough for the Ashes squad? Its not like he even scored many runs in the limited games he did get.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by SimonofSurrey on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:38 am

Surrey (I know, I know... Whistle ) could provide two, possibly three, medium term useful members of the England team.

Foakes is seen by many neutrals as the best w/k batsman in the land by a country mile. He's scored heavily for the Lions when those around him have struggled and even I think has batted at three for them at least once. Looking ahead, he's worth a place as a 'proper' wk who bats. So I'd move Bairstow as a specialist batsman up to three, keep Malan - the one genuine find of the recent Ashes - at five, and bat Foakes anywhere from six to nine.

Currans - Tom did respectably in unhelpful conditions but was shown up - for now - as short of Test class. His kid brother Sam, however, is a better bat, quicker and - praise be - a leftie with genuine late swing. And, amazingly, he's been around for ever but is still a teenager. He had a poor season last year but at 19 is hardly yesterday's man.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:55 am

Sam is the one I’ve read about and sounds exciting

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 11:23 am

Sam could do with a little bit of a growth spurt I think - very naturally gifted, not quite sure if he's physically there yet. If he gets a bit bigger physically he could be really quick
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 12:12 pm

Had a quick check on Sam anbd hes currently playing in domestic T20 in New Zealand. Not doing a great deal other than some useful cameos with the bat. A left armer would be a great addition to future England squads in any format, I guess hes more likely to be a Woakes/Willey than a Stokes.
Its odd that he didnt make this Lions tour given he did well against SA A in the summer even if he is a fair way off maturity and a full cap in any format.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 12:23 pm

I am not party to a lot of info or inside facts on this so beware of that if this post doesn't make sense.

Is it possible that since the introductions of central contracts for long-term England squad members that more emphasis from the ECB on coching budgets go towards coaches primarily with the England squad? I mean if the budget has changed within the ECB because of central contracts is it having a detrimental effect on county cricket and the level of coaching young players are getting in their development?
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Duty281 on Sat 13 Jan 2018, 4:51 pm

Should be a good ODI series, one that I make England narrow favourites for; 11/4 is an excellent price.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 5:01 am

So BT round off their awful winter coverage by giving us the channel nine feed for the ODIs with occasional sprinklings of Matt Smith and Graeme Swann lad banter. Abhorrent
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 6:17 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:So BT round off their awful winter coverage by giving us the channel nine feed for the ODIs with occasional sprinklings of Matt Smith and Graeme Swann lad banter. Abhorrent

Perhaps an acceptance their choice of commentators are not a patch on Channel Nine's?

England will be pleased if they can restrict Australia to less than 300.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 6:20 am

Australia 248 for 5 after 44 overs. Ali and Rashid have bowled their quota witth Ali getting one wicket and Rashid two.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 6:53 am

And Australia close on 304 for 8 after their 50 overs. England will fancy chasing this down even though it would be the highest ODI run chase at the MCG.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:47 am

England off to the perfect start on 33 for 0 off 3 overs.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:50 am

How is it the openers can ruin Starc and Cummins in an ODI but we cant find one for 6 years who can cope with a fast bowler in tests Shocked
Roys on fire. 24 in his last 6 balls

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:52 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:England off to the perfect start on 33 for 0 off 3 overs.

47 off 4 is more perfect Shocked

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:53 am

Fifty up for England in 26 balls.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:55 am

Bairstow caught behind. England 53 for 1.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:03 am

Hales caught at mid-on on a mis-timed hook. England now 60 for 2. Run rate not an issue but loding wickets too swiftly at present.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:16 am

Fifty up for Roy in 32 balls.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:21 am

England 87 gor 2 off 10 overs.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:37 am

Australia just getting a grasp on this run rate now but England still with the upper hand on 103 for 2 after 14 overs.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:49 am

After 17 overs England are 119 for 2. Required run rate a manageable 5.62 runs per over. Roy and Root content at picking off the singles.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:04 am

At risk of being accussed of being part of the Surrey mafia I do wonder if Roy should start to try to develop as a potential test player as an option at 3.
Hes well established as a quality limited overs player and has the ability to reign it in as well as take the game to fast bowlers. Hes got bags of talent and no fear.
I suspect though that Bayliss is more focussed on the world cup , and weve been burnt by both Hales and Buttler trying to come over.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:06 am

England still in the boxseat on 138 for 2 from.21 overs. Australia really need a wicket.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by VTR on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:09 am

Cricinfo comments starting to groan under the weight of contributors who think Tests and ODIs are the same format

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:10 am

Gooseberry wrote:At risk of being accussed of being part of the Surrey mafia I do wonder if Roy should start to try to develop as a potential test player as an option at 3.
Hes well established as a quality limited overs player and has the ability to reign it in as well as take the game to fast bowlers. Hes got bags of talent and no fear.
I suspect though that Bayliss is more focussed on the world cup , and weve been burnt by both Hales and Buttler trying to come over.

To aid England's top order I think someone mafe a really good suggestion here the other day. Apologies to the poster for misplacing their name but bring in Foakes as wicket-keeper and move Bsirstow up the batting order to three.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

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