Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

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Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 9:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

As Olly roundly predicted (and I can tell you, he aggressively told people), England have stormed the Ashes and now move forwards to a one-day series with the Aussies.

Tonight, they name the squad for New Zealand, with Vince expected to keep his place for more convincing knocks, whilst Liam Livingstone is tipped to get the call too.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 9:18 am

Peach of a catch off his own bowling from Ali and Marsh exits. Hmm this is getting interesting. Australia 133 for 4.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 9:19 am

I know his batting form hasn’t turned round, but Moeen really has bowled well in the this ODI series
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 9:36 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:I know his batting form hasn’t turned round, but Moeen really has bowled well in the this ODI series

Just not as well as Rashid.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:06 am

Just as you think the game's gone...Stoinis hits a delivery he should have put into the stand down Tom Curran's throat...

Actually not quite down his throat - was a very good catch. But it keeps things interesting. You'd think another 60 from 15 overs won't be too difficult for Australia ...but another wicket now would have the dressing room a bit nervous.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:07 am

Australia continue to drip feed England some hope. They are now 188 for 5. Run rate is not an issue but they can't afford to lose Maxwell.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:15 am

And there is the wicket of Maxwell. Curran's inswinger traps him lbw after the review. Australia 192 for 6.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:15 am

Curran traps Maxwell plumb lbw...on review : though how it wasn't given on field is beyond me...

Whatever : 192/6 and game very much on...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:17 am

And Curran strikes again. A reverse swinging delivery sees Starc caught by Buttler.


Last edited by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:18 am

Starc gone for a duck...great catch Buttler clap

Tom Curran on fire !

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:32 am

All happening...dropped catch at mid wicket (Bairstow having a rough day in the field ) but now Moeen has Tye safely pouched at cover...

203/8 and the Aussies are struggling...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:36 am

While Paine is there they can still get these. But it is getting very tight : and they now have a run rate required up to 5.3.

Curran with three overs left and he has bowled really well : his overs might decide this. Not far away from another lbw then...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:39 am

The required run rate now over 5.5 runs per over. Australia's innings has largely mirrored England's innings but can they reach the target?
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:41 am

Wow Hales drops a highly makeable catch off Ali.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:43 am

Oh dear ! That should have been just about over...Hales shells a straightforward catch off Paine at mid on. Moeen really should have had his fourth.

Need 45 off eight ...and just the three pace men to bowl them. Unless Morgan risks Root...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:50 am

If England lose this they'll be blaming the fielding...usually very sound ; but several bad errors today.

Run rate required still edging up : nearly six now. Still in reach but you feel they'll need some boundaries.

Lets see how Ball can bowl at the death...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 10:53 am

Ball in some trouble ...might have to bowl Root !

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:01 am

And Willey traps Zampa lbw. Reviewed....but overturned as it pitched outside leg.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:01 am

alfie wrote:Ball in some trouble ...might have to bowl Root !

Yes looked like the heat got to him.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:08 am

Ball back...but suffering. Poor over ; largely got away with it though.

Finish getting very tight...Curran the key now I think...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:10 am

And Curran skittles Zampa !

One to go...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:10 am

And Curran bowls Zampa for his fourth wicket. Australia 236 for 9. Still another 24 needed. What a turn around.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:12 am

England now warm favourites.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:13 am

Australia need 24 from 3 overs.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:14 am

24 off three. One each from the pace men . In what order ?

Ball first ? Hmmm...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:18 am

Ball soldiers on.

First ball..dot ball. Second ball....dot ball. Third ball....edged for four. Fourth ball....Ramp shot for 6. Fifth ball.....dot ball. Sixth ball.....single.

Australia need 13 from the last two overs.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:19 am

Paine won't take a single...

Looking for boundaries...and he's edged one of them !and now a six !

Think I'd have held Ball back. This is heaping pressure on the other two...only need 14 now...in fact 13. And Paine has kept the strike. That over might just have swung it back to Australia...though it only takes one ball...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:21 am

And Curran has a Michelle. Bowls Tim Paine and England force an unlikely win. They seal a 4-1 win in the series.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 11:22 am

And one ball does it Yahoo

Five for Curran and all over ...well bowled young man thumbsup

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 12:05 pm

I'd say that was perhaps England's best win of the four. I say that because the bowling was somewhat under strength and the batting didn't quite get the total they should but they still pulled off the win somehow. And that was with Ball having health issues but still bowling at the end. It was a relative newcomer who made the difference - Tom Curran.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 12:30 pm

The Surrey Mafia should be delighted with that performance . Curran has surely pushed himself up the ODI pecking order with that effort .

It was indeed a fine win for England ; looked out of it at times but just kept coming back...credit to Moeen too : ropey with the bat again but he did a job with the ball to give young Tom the chance to go through the later order.

Four - one probably about right for the way both sides played in this series. Australia still tinkering with their team and will surely have a bit more change before the WC ; but unless they can find an all rounder they really trust with the ball they might struggle to get the balance right .

T20 next in this eternal contest...

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Corporalhumblebucket on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 12:37 pm

Hi Alfie - I've been absent from these boards for a while, but obviously had to turn up to congratulate Tom Curran on a very fine performance. He's certainly looking like a good bet for England limited overs cricket and loves bowling "at the death". (Mind you at one time that was said of another Surrey stalwart, Dernbach Rolling Eyes )

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 1:47 pm

Certainly didn’t expect to return to see England had won - excellent work from Curran and Ali with the ball!

Curran may need to put on a yard of pace to be a threat at test level, but he’s got something about him - mentally that means he doesn’t shy away from the big stage and biggest moments. A quality that means he’s worth keeping in the picture imo
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 6:27 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Certainly didn’t expect to return to see England had won - excellent work from Curran and Ali with the ball!

Curran may need to put on a yard of pace to be a threat at test level, but he’s got something about him - mentally that means he doesn’t shy away from the big stage and biggest moments. A quality that means he’s worth keeping in the picture imo

Recently returned home and now seen the highlights. I'm very much with Olly re Curran. A very fine display of bowling and character today from the Surrey seamer. I've long maintained that he won't always come off at international level and lacks a bit of pace for Tests but he'll never hide away.

Incidentally, good to see the Corporal is back from military manoeuvres. Regarding his post - Curran gives a lot of credit to Dernbach for his development.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by KP_fan on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 6:59 pm

--Bilateral limited over games have ceased to interest me.....
Although international games are still competitive......they are generally slog fests on flat track....with little at stake, and forgotten soon

Such games Serve as a build-up/ optimization of sides... testing combinations for the main events i.e Champions trophy and 50 over and 20 over world cups

Almost the same status as football's "friendly internationals" ...

--I do follow scores on CI and watch out for extraordinary performances and special new talents who may use these games as a launching pad for test cricket

--The game today had two-5fers and that's rare....so I watched extended highlights and my thoughts below:

--AJ Tye I had heard off in IPL:..seen a bit of him in IPL where he took a hat trick...and he's gone for nearly a Million USD in the auctions yesterday... that's surprising given his batting skills are quite limited

He bowl medium paced laced with slow balls as a variation a bit like Klusenre
What makes him hard in my view.... is his slower variations... a mystery knuckle ball lot of floaty, cutters..

He's better to be treated as a spinner with a long runup and one who is capable of bowling a surpise 130kph delivery as a yorker...that's really fast for a spinner

If he can improve his batting.....he could be the 5th bowler...who could be useful on spinning & seaming conditions
They had one called Colin Miller (with Pink hair ) who was like that.....ahead of his times...would have done better in the age of T20 franchise leagues


--Tom Curran got reverse ....and predominant....and ran through the Aussie line-up......more of such reverse what they were missing in the test series...better than his brother in his seemingly taller built and his pace was 136-138kph...which is not bad....
With that built he can add a yard of pace he will be a handy prospect and we have seen likes of Bhuvi and Woakes add pace after arrival to international scene

--Moeen I saw was getting flight, bit of loop ,drift in and arm ball straightening away.....like he used to in his best days in Eng..and that he was conspicuously missing in the tests
he's back in rythm...better late than never
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by SimonofSurrey on Sun 28 Jan 2018, 7:12 pm

I can’t remember for the life of me - did I happen to mention on this forum that IMHO Tom Curran’s kid brother Sam is a rather handy one day player, too? (calm down jdizzle & goose: that’s self-deprecating irony). Well done, Tom. Great bowling - and good to see him giving DWarner a cheery ‘bye bye’ too.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Jetty on Mon 29 Jan 2018, 1:15 am

I reckon Curran has earned his place to open the ODI and T20 bowling. I don't see the point of Wood ave 44.16 and Ball ave 45.28 econ 6.22. Also should be batting above Willey and Rashid.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 29 Jan 2018, 1:56 pm

The point of Wood or Ball is to have a fast strike bowler. neither is really cutting it though. Looking ahead to the summer Curran has an excellent chance of making the spot his own on home pitches that should suit him. Then every can get on moaning about how his brother should be playing instead Wink

Aus are a mess. England looking good despite a couple of yips with the bat.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by king_carlos on Mon 29 Jan 2018, 3:07 pm

I've been absent from the cricket boards for a while but having celebrated a day of rest by watching the final ODI in full I was very impressed by Tom Curran.

A five-fer taken late in a low(ish) scoring ODI often comes via a few slogs, tailenders needing to score quickly and pressure forcing a batsman to pick out long off trying to send a half volley into the river. That was a very fine bit of composed swing bowling from the young man though against some very good one day batsman.

I agree with guildford that he lacks a bit of pace in red ball cricket but his ability to swing the white ball is impressive and a useful alternative to the current bowlers we have. If Wood and Woakes are Englands front line seamers in white ball cricket then CurranT could offer a useful alternative as first change.

Given the extra yard of pace that Woakes and Jake Ball got following a strength & conditioning camp I would be interested to see both Curran brothers try something similar.

Sam in particular I feel will get a fair bit quicker as he develops. He's a swing bowler and wont ever be rapid but going from low 80s to high 80s similar to Woakes could make him some bowler. He can already swing a ball prodigiously and bowl a very accurate yorker. Adding a few extra mph would give him the sharp bouncer that he needs to challenge the best. He wont be a bowler who can try to take a batsmans head off but with his left arm angle and low trajectory a sharp, 'skiddy' bouncer is all he needs to push a batsman back so he can really pitch the ball up and swing it.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by LondonTiger on Mon 29 Jan 2018, 3:24 pm

CurranT certainly has something about him in the limited overs setting.

I do hope Sam can impress the powers that be during the T20 series (perhaps only chance will be in the nets sadly) as I really cannot see Willey having any decent future for England.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by LondonTiger on Fri 02 Feb 2018, 10:24 am

David Willey just fails to hit Nathan Lyon for a grand slam - 34 from the over with just a 4 off the last ball to spoil the sequence.

(Still stand by my comment above though)

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 11:10 am

Both Hales and Rashid have ditched long form cricket and wont be playing in the CC. That pretty much rules them out of tests.

In the case of Rashid is does seem that his exclusion from the winter test squads signalled that England have finaly given up on messing him around despite his solid perfomances the previous winter in Asia.
Hales obviously hasnt been in the test side for some time, but could maybe have pushed again for place with continued uncertainty in Englands top 3. His record had been better than most of the other post Strauss top order bats.

This also further underlines the shift to specialist limited overs players, and desire for them to make money on the global T20 circuit. That could be a huge problem for the CC, and ultimately the test team. The positive spin on it would be that it will encvourage counties to devleope specialist 4 day players more suited to test cricket, but the reality is a further drop in standards and more talent choosing to chase the big money on the limited overs circuit forgoing long form cricket altogether.


Also Bayliss has said hes open to giving up the T20 role, and indicated he cared for the current mini torunament about as much as the fans did. Farbrace could take over as full time coach there.
Whilst its been ineviatble that there would be spllit coaching at some point this does worry me a bit.
I dont think hes doen a great job with the test team and he was seen as a limited overs specialist, if anything Id rather he was looking to ditch tests than T20 and England look to get a fresh outlook their instead. But understandable he wouldnt.
We have already seen the T20 side sidelined and treated as an annoyance. Its rare to see a sfull strength line up fielded outside of the world cup. With a split coaching role its likely that Bayliss will be even less inclined to want his key multi format players fielded for "meaningless" T20 internationals, and team building could get even harder.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Duty281 on Tue 20 Feb 2018, 6:24 pm

The sooner cricket splits into two different sports - Test/FC/ODI/List A as one and T20 as the other - the better.

Then we can have a less congested calendar.

From an English test perspective, Hales is no loss.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Fri 23 Feb 2018, 12:32 pm

Moeens also now talking about becoming a white ball specialist.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 25 Feb 2018, 7:54 pm

Wood missed the game today with ankle injury

Feels like I’ve seen this story before
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 6:19 am

What a ridiculously soft dismissal from Bairstow that is
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 8:25 am

Easy win for England - good to see Morgan and Stokes get some runs, and Ali/Rashid continue their good bowling partnership in the one dayers this winter.

Sets it up nicely for the rest of the series - although if these injuries Williamson/Taylor are carrying turn out to be more than niggles, New Zealand will be seriously weakened
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Wed 28 Feb 2018, 9:17 am

Pretty by the numbers win for England today. Even losing Roy and Root for practically nothing never really threatened to derail the task of running down that modest target. Stokes looked pretty much like he did before Bristol ..guess he will face tougher days with the bat.

Didnt get home in time to see the NZ innings but England must have bowled well. Missing main batsmen never helps but even so that was surely a well under par total.

Having Stokes means England can afford to play Willey for his new ball skills and disregard him thereafter...not certain this carrying a bowler for an average five or six overs is sustainable going towards a World Cup though ?

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 7:38 am

alfie wrote:Pretty by the numbers win for England today.  Even losing Roy and Root for practically nothing never really threatened to derail the task of running down that modest target.  Stokes looked pretty much like he did before Bristol ..guess he will face tougher days with the bat.

Didnt get home in time to see the NZ innings but England must have bowled well. Missing main batsmen never helps  but even so that was surely a well under par total.

Having Stokes means England can afford to play Willey for his new ball skills and disregard him thereafter...not certain this carrying a bowler for an average five or six overs is sustainable going towards a World Cup though ?
 
Ive assumed the reason he keeps getting selected is the lack of any other established left arm seamer to challenge him. Maybe Sam Curran could press his case through this year but it would be a big punt right now. 
Is bringing Hales back and beefing up the batting a more valid option? That would bring them down to just 5 bowlers plus root, which is far from ideal and puts a lot of pressure  on Stokes.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by alfie on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 9:36 am

Sam Curran will logically be the alternative...think you are correct in assuming the left arm option is a big factor here , goose.

Doubt they'll go to the extra batsman with the type of pitches they play on these days. They do bat pretty deep in any case - and I think Morgan likes having extra variety in his attack.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Thu 01 Mar 2018, 9:42 am

Tbf would Willey even be playing if Plunkett and Wood were fit?
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