Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

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Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Wed 10 Jan 2018, 9:25 pm

First topic message reminder :

As Olly roundly predicted (and I can tell you, he aggressively told people), England have stormed the Ashes and now move forwards to a one-day series with the Aussies.

Tonight, they name the squad for New Zealand, with Vince expected to keep his place for more convincing knocks, whilst Liam Livingstone is tipped to get the call too.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by eirebilly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:13 am

He is a decent option Goose but there was always going to be comparisons made between the ODI squad and test squad after the Ashes loss.

Roy is certainly playing very well with Root anchoring here.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by eirebilly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:27 am

Congrats to Roy, excellent ton clap
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:28 am

Century for Roy. England 168 for 2 in the 27th over.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:35 am

It is far easier to convert a Test player who is aggressive into an ODI player than vice versa. I canmot really recall any ODI specialists who have later been converted into a successful Test player IMO.


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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:35 am

50 up for Root. England in control on 182 for 2.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:37 am

Roy given out lbw to Zampa but, with encouragement from Root, successfully reviews. Impact just outside the line which saves Goose's Surrey man. Wink I would question though whether he was playing a shot - looked as if he was in the slow motion replay but not in real time.

Anyway, Roy makes the most of that as he moves to a century and England well set for victory on 182/2 off 29. Root batting sensibly at the other end and brings up his own 50. Feel that Australia will need to dismiss both of these two to have any chance of turning this game around.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by eirebilly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:43 am

Root just called for the heavier bat...
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:46 am

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:So BT round off their awful winter coverage by giving us the channel nine feed for the ODIs with occasional sprinklings of Matt Smith and Graeme Swann lad banter. Abhorrent

Seconded with the strongest possible support.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by eirebilly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:50 am

guildfordbat wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:So BT round off their awful winter coverage by giving us the channel nine feed for the ODIs with occasional sprinklings of Matt Smith and Graeme Swann lad banter. Abhorrent

Seconded with the strongest possible support.

I like the channel 9 coverage. Bill Lawry, for me, is the voice of ODI cricket.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:55 am

Epic knock this from Roy.Now 131 off 113 balls.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by eirebilly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:03 am

Roy is playing a superb innings, has lived a charmed life somewhat but fair play to him.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:10 am

clap 150 up for Roy.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:20 am

Records tumbling for Jason Roy on 162 not out with Root playing the anchor role on 65. England 252 for 2. Required run rate now immaterial you feel.


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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:20 am

Roy and Root have run very well. Regularly rotated the strike and and also turned several singles into twos.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:27 am

And Roy sets a record for the highest ODI score by an English batsman as he moves past Ales Hales 171 and onto 173.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:30 am

And now he becomes the highest run scorer in an ODI at the MCG passing Mark Waugh's record.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:33 am

England 274 for 2 after 41 overs. This is done and dusted. 31 to win off 9 overs.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:41 am

Roy finally exits for 180 in a record breaking knock. England 281 for 3.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by eirebilly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:42 am

Fair play to Warner and Finch, straight over to acknowledge that innings from Roy. Very good sportsmanship there thumbsup
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:46 am

People calling for Roy to be in the test team, when literally six months ago they were arguing he shouldn’t be in the ODI side is major lolz.

For all the stick Bayliss gets about his test record, he’s turned this ODI side from an embarrassment to one of the best in the world and easily the best England have ever had
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:51 am

Skipper Morgan caught at mid-on for 1.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by eirebilly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:51 am

Well, that's Morgan for you.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:01 am

eirebilly wrote:Fair play to Warner and Finch, straight over to acknowledge that innings from Roy. Very good sportsmanship there thumbsup

Hi Billy - absolutely although Finch and Roy are good mates from playing together at Surrey. I think Smith actually also played alongside Roy when he had half a season with Surrey seconds about ten years ago.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by eirebilly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:06 am

guildfordbat wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Fair play to Warner and Finch, straight over to acknowledge that innings from Roy. Very good sportsmanship there thumbsup

Hi Billy - absolutely although Finch and Roy are good mates from playing together at Surrey. I think Smith actually also played alongside Roy when he had half a season with Surrey seconds about ten years ago.

Howya guildford,

Didn't know that but I do appreciate it when things like that happen. Its very good to see.

Buttler gone trying to finish the game with one shot.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:07 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:Australia 248 for 5 after 44 overs. Ali and Rashid have bowled their quota witth Ali getting one wicket and Rashid two.

Hi Craig - did you see our slow men bowl? If so, any thoughts?

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:10 am

And England complete the win with just over an over to spare. Star knock from Roy and great supporting knock from Root.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:11 am

eirebilly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Fair play to Warner and Finch, straight over to acknowledge that innings from Roy. Very good sportsmanship there thumbsup

Hi Billy - absolutely although Finch and Roy are good mates from playing together at Surrey. I think Smith actually also played alongside Roy when he had half a season with Surrey seconds about ten years ago.

Howya guildford,

Didn't know that but I do appreciate it when things like that happen. Its very good to see.

Buttler gone trying to finish the game with one shot.

Hi again Billy - I think you would like Finch. He hit his first ball in a Surrey CC match for six. That was at Guildford where he was later to be found behind the pavilion having a smoke! thumbsup

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:12 am

guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Australia 248 for 5 after 44 overs. Ali and Rashid have bowled their quota witth Ali getting one wicket and Rashid two.

Hi Craig - did you see our slow men bowl?  If so, any thoughts?

Ali bowled the tighter but less threatening stuff. Rashid still prone to looser stuff but more threatening.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by JDizzle on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:16 am

guildfordbat wrote:
eirebilly wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
eirebilly wrote:Fair play to Warner and Finch, straight over to acknowledge that innings from Roy. Very good sportsmanship there thumbsup

Hi Billy - absolutely although Finch and Roy are good mates from playing together at Surrey. I think Smith actually also played alongside Roy when he had half a season with Surrey seconds about ten years ago.

Howya guildford,

Didn't know that but I do appreciate it when things like that happen. Its very good to see.

Buttler gone trying to finish the game with one shot.

Hi again Billy - I think you would like Finch. He hit his first ball in a Surrey CC match for six. That was at Guildford where he was later to be found behind the pavilion having a smoke! thumbsup

Dirk Nannes wrote the following re. Finch back when he was first breaking through - very much checks out with that anecdote!

‘Aaron is not your run of the mill, robotic cricketer that has come through the system. He is not the perfect athlete, and may have picked the wrong sport about 5 years ago. Why? I think he could have won the last Olympics as a track cyclist as he’s got a massive arse, and his legs would put most sprint cyclists to shame. But there would be one problem … Olympic cycling may not have liked him. He has a bit around the waist, thanks to a steady diet of ‘cans’ and ‘darts’ with his mates at the local.’

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:17 am

Record breaking innings for Roy. A bit of luck along the way but he deserved that and the credit now coming to him if only to redress some of the flak he gets when it doesn't come off.

I was impressed as well by Root. Very solid.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:24 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Australia 248 for 5 after 44 overs. Ali and Rashid have bowled their quota witth Ali getting one wicket and Rashid two.

Hi Craig - did you see our slow men bowl?  If so, any thoughts?

Ali bowled the tighter but less threatening stuff. Rashid still prone to looser stuff but more threatening.

I’d agree with this - complimented each other nicely, Ali bowled a lot better than he has done recently too
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Duty281 on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:26 am

Great innings from Roy. 1-0 England!

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:29 am

Root failing again to get a hundred - shocking. Get him out the side Very Happy
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by guildfordbat on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:29 am

CaledonianCraig wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Australia 248 for 5 after 44 overs. Ali and Rashid have bowled their quota witth Ali getting one wicket and Rashid two.

Hi Craig - did you see our slow men bowl?  If so, any thoughts?

Ali bowled the tighter but less threatening stuff. Rashid still prone to looser stuff but more threatening.

Thanks, Craig. Looks like the stats accurately reflect their performances then. Pretty sure that Ali would have settled for the one wicket and an economic return after his poor Test series - I certainly would have done on his behalf!

Pietersen was getting enthusiastic at times on comms about Zampa's leg spin for the hosts although I wasn't so convinced. He did frustrate Roy a bit in his opening overs but there were too many bad balls later on.




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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 11:43 am

guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:
guildfordbat wrote:
CaledonianCraig wrote:Australia 248 for 5 after 44 overs. Ali and Rashid have bowled their quota witth Ali getting one wicket and Rashid two.

Hi Craig - did you see our slow men bowl?  If so, any thoughts?

Ali bowled the tighter but less threatening stuff. Rashid still prone to looser stuff but more threatening.

Thanks, Craig. Looks like the stats accurately reflect their performances then. Pretty sure that Ali would have settled for the one wicket and an economic return after his poor Test series - I certainly would have done on his behalf!


I think it examplifies why Ali gets chosen - he is deemed more economical. That is a key mentality of England's bowling attack. Anderson and Broad crave dock balls almost as much as wickets. Sure it helps mount pressure and I can accept it from them as they are wicket-takers. Ali, however, is not but is chosen (it would seem) for ability to go for less runs than other spin options regardless of whether he takes less wickets than them.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 1:53 pm

Moeen is not economical in tests ... he used to get praised for his strike rate but the reality has been that hes largely taken wickets when players were trying to hit him out of the game. In the Ashes he was neither a wicket taking threat or economical.
England have traditionally wanted their spinners to tie up an end / keep it tight but Moeen has never been able to do that with too many loose balls.

Its great to see his confidence back here and bowling less predictably. He did well in the warm up game too.If he is going to continue as a test player getting that positive mindset back seems to be the key. Bowling in combination with Rashid maybe helps too.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 2:01 pm

Gooseberry wrote: Bowling in combination with Rashid maybe helps too.

Perhaps or perhaps only using him for what he is - a part-time spinner. He's never going to be a Swann or even an Edmonds or Emburey and that is what England should be looking for right now. Yes I get people saying there is nobody but if you don't give others a try you die wondering.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by KP_fan on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 4:18 pm

I saw the scorecard....Roy smacked 180 and Eng chased down 300+ ...again
WOW
but these are meaningless masala ODIs on Patta pitches....that are all build up / optimization / trials towards the main events

In cricket what counts are following

1) 50 over World cup
2) Champions Trophy
3) T20 world cup
4) test matches between top sides

Eng did not make it to the last 4 of neither champions trophy nor 50 over world cup as i can remember

Look No further than Rohit Sharma smacked the daylight out of opponents smashing double hundreds in ODIs.....and can't buy even 15 assured runs in SA
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 4:28 pm

England literally made the final four of the most recent champions trophy
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 4:51 pm

What’s the point in winning a game if it isn’t the World Cup final?! Losers

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by CaledonianCraig on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 4:59 pm

KP_fan wrote:I saw the scorecard....Roy smacked 180 and Eng chased down 300+ ...again
WOW
but these are meaningless masala ODIs  on Patta pitches....that are all build up / optimization / trials towards the main events

In cricket what counts are following

1) 50 over World cup
2) Champions Trophy
3) T20 world cup
4) test matches between top sides

Eng did not make it to the last 4 of neither champions trophy nor 50 over world cup as i can remember

Look No further than Rohit Sharma smacked the daylight out of opponents smashing double hundreds in ODIs.....and can't buy even 15 assured runs in SA

Well it is Australia V England so the competitiveness of the match cannot be questioned. The 180 is the highest ODI score I do believe ever seen in Australia - certainly at the MCG (a fair few Indian greats have strived there by the way) so I don't really see what you are getting at. In any format of the game in any sport winning is the name of the game and England done that in style today in what was the highest run chase acheived in an ODI at the MCG by the way.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by VTR on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 5:34 pm

England make the last four of the last CT and the final of the last World T20, and games such as today reaffirm that isn't a fluke and keeps the momentum going. Or are they supposed to go down 5-0 in order to conserve energy for 2019?

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by VTR on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 5:39 pm

Also Rohit is a very good ODI player, maybe not great in Tests but they are distinct formats. I don't see a problem with that, there's big prizes in ODIs, blame the selectors if anything

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Pal Joey on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:58 pm

A well deserved win for England in the 1st ODI. You have to hand it to Roy... he came out blasting in T20 mode and it payed off. Think this was a good strategy and it certainly put Australia on the back foot. They never really recovered.

Not really a criticism but I feel England should have won with more overs to spare but it matters not really. Perhaps the plan is to now put an even tighter squeeze on for the next game.

Australia have a few things to look at as regards selection. They were probably 30 or so runs light but full credit to Wood in getting the early breakthrough (nice bounce!) and Ali for containing the score. England were able to get more out of that wicket; Australia struggled.

The loss of Warner, Smith and Head before the 15th over was too big a blow for Australia to recover a bigger total although MM and Stoinis did well to put on a relatively competitive total.

They maybe took it too lightly resting Hazelwood but then again he may not have made much difference in the end... and deserved a rest. Zampa tried hard, did well early on but then his figures blew out -  I hope it doesn't damage his chances for future representation.

Let's see if there will be any changes for Brisbane. Think they can afford to tinker a little... but nothing too drastic. I felt the team was a little top heavy in the batting department and a little light on the bowling front.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Dolphin Ziggler on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:31 pm

Think England knew they’d won and it became a game of “what could Roy do?”

Considering there must have been some fraught confidence, that’s big for England today. But we’re a good one day side

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Duty281 on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 10:52 pm

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:But we’re a good one day side

Outside of sub-continental conditions, England are probably the best ODI side in the world.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Gooseberry on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 1:33 pm

Duty281 wrote:
Dolphin Ziggler wrote:But we’re a good one day side

Outside of sub-continental conditions, England are probably the best ODI side in the world.

 Take away the 3 wins and 3 losses in Asia their record since June 2016 is won 22 lost 3 tied 1 . SA are ranked number one in the world but have a record of won 21 lost 9 in that same period ...without having played a single game in Asia. India won 27 lost 9 tied 1 overall and 8 wins 3 losses outside asia.
Aus despite winning the CT have a record of won 17 lost 17 (won 5 lost 5 in Asia)
 Even with the sub continent games included they have easily the best record of any team in the world in that period. Its padded a bit by having played a massive number of games at home (mutterings about Indias dominance in tests till they went to SA...) due to hosting the CT ...  but thats where the next world cup is.


In terms of teh way Roy, and to a lesser extenbt Bairstow came out, its the method thats suited England well in this format and very stark contrast to the cautious approach theyve generally taken in tests. The same is true of the bowling; in tests the focus seems to be on keeping it tight first and attacking the stumps second. Wood managed to bowl with some genuine pace, although sadly he wouldnt be able to sustain quite that speed that for a workable number of overs in tests it does show what they maybe missed having to turn to the gentle plodding of Curran.

This was without Stokes of course, and theres players like Billings, Malan, Jordan, Willey and err Duckett who could step in and fill gaps in the event of injuries (plus Dawson I guess). If/when Stokes returns they face the choice of who out of Bairstow, Roy and Hales misses out again .... not many sides have that luxury. They bat right down the order and have variety in the bowling, its a left arm quick off being a "perfect on paper" ballance.

Certainly not a fluke and easily the best limited overs team England has seen. The T20 world cup champions side had only a breif glorious moment, these guys have been producing for a year and a half now breaking records all over the place.

Very stark contrast to the gradual slump of the test team. Theres a few questions in the columns about Bayliss in this and whether or not a single all formats leadership group is the way forwards. Its partly down to the resources available but we dont seem to get the same muddled selections and odd experiments in the ODI team we see in tests. Theyve got a clear blueprint of what a balanced team looks like and how it should play with players who buy into it ... the test team away from home just seems like a disaster area.

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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by GSC on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 1:58 pm

Decision due on whether Stokes will be charged imminent apparently.
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Afro on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 2:23 pm

Been charged, court date tbc
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

Post by Good Golly I'm Olly on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 2:24 pm

Charged with affray, not assault. Likely heavy fine and suspended sentence
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Re: Post Ashes England Cricket discussion - ODIs and the NZ squads

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