Basteraud in trouble?

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Basteraud in trouble?

Post by GeordieFalcon on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:06 pm

I see the daggers are out for Basteraud after calling someone a f*&king faggott.

Is this the PC / I'm offended brigade going OTT or should he be banned like Marler was over the gypsy boy case.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2018/01/6117/mathieu-bastareaud-shocks-fans-as-homophobic-slur-is-heard-worldwide

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:12 pm

Well I don't know because a deliberate elbow to the face isn't worthy of a card according to the ref in the Castres vs Leicester game so who knows what you can r can't get away with anymore. The referees in both cases were given the evidence.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by doctor_grey on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:16 pm

It's a bit hard to know at the moment, mate. He should be carded, regardless. Not sure what more is needed.

Doesn't it seem a bit odd a Frenchman is cursing with English slang?

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by formerly known as Sam on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:52 pm

doctor_grey wrote:It's a bit hard to know at the moment, mate.  He should be carded, regardless.  Not sure what more is needed.  

Doesn't it seem a bit odd a Frenchman is cursing with English slang?

Influence of American TV and film.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by Exiledinborders on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:53 pm

doctor_grey wrote:It's a bit hard to know at the moment, mate.  He should be carded, regardless.  Not sure what more is needed.  

Doesn't it seem a bit odd a Frenchman is cursing with English slang?
Maybe being French he does not understand the slang meaning. Perhaps he was referring to an item of English cuisine - a terrible insult from a Frenchman.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by BigGee on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:07 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:I see the daggers are out for Basteraud after calling someone a f*&king faggott.

Is this the PC / I'm offended brigade going OTT or should he be banned like Marler was over the gypsy boy case.

http://www.rugbydump.com/2018/01/6117/mathieu-bastareaud-shocks-fans-as-homophobic-slur-is-heard-worldwide

No, in a word, certainly not OTT.

Welcome to the 21st century guys, this is not acceptable anymore (it never was really) and he is going to do some time for it.

The fact that he said it in English (it might not have got picked up in French), implies that he knew what it meant.

When will so called professional players learn that there are cameras and mics everywhere in todays game and you just won't get away with stuff like that any more.

He deserves a ban for stupidity as much as anything else!

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:12 pm

It depends. Is the player who got called the profanity homo-sexual? Were there any players, officials or fans of that orientation around at the time? We might not know, however I do think it's unacceptable at this level. The first instance of this I seen was in Super Rugby where Pocock was called a fa***t. The Saffa later apologized and it was left at that.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by SecretFly on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:26 pm

He probably should be sentenced to Death by stoning and Oprah and Meryl should do the executioner bit - Televised on Twitter TV.  Oh the excitement of it all.  Should bring in more dosh than the Mayweather/McGregor fight.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by Cardiff Dave on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:32 pm

Ooh shut that door!

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by Cardiff Dave on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:38 pm

SecretFly wrote:He probably should be sentenced to Death by stoning and Oprah and Meryl should do the executioner bit - Televised on Twitter TV.  Oh the excitement of it all.  Should bring in more dosh than the Mayweather/McGregor fight.

Agreed. Only way to be sure.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by BigGee on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:48 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:It depends. Is the player who got called the profanity homo-sexual? Were there any players, officials or fans of that orientation around at the time? We might not know, however I do think it's unacceptable at this level. The first instance of this I seen was in Super Rugby where Pocock was called a fa***t. The Saffa later apologized and it was left at that.  

Would you like all players and officials to fill in details of their sexual and gender orientations prior to any games, so we can be clear on who may or may not be offended?

His boss has just weighed in with his usual politically incorrect take on events, suggesting it is all an Anglo-Saxon and Welsh conspiracy! He is another one who should probably learn to keep a lid on it.

Clearly common sense rules don't apply to Billionaires.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by BigGee on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 8:58 pm

I see that common sense (and no doubt the Toulon PR/legal department) is starting to prevail in the south of France.

Basteraud has just tweeted an apology (in French this time!)

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by mikey_dragon on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:24 pm

BigGee wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:It depends. Is the player who got called the profanity homo-sexual? Were there any players, officials or fans of that orientation around at the time? We might not know, however I do think it's unacceptable at this level. The first instance of this I seen was in Super Rugby where Pocock was called a fa***t. The Saffa later apologized and it was left at that.  

Would you like all players and officials to fill in details of their sexual and gender orientations prior to any games, so we can be clear on who may or may not be offended?

His boss has just weighed in with his usual politically incorrect take on events, suggesting it is all an Anglo-Saxon and Welsh conspiracy! He is another one who should probably learn to keep a lid on it.

Clearly common sense rules don't apply to Billionaires.

They disclose that information on their job applications - have you never filled one out? My point was is that whilst I don't really find it offensive there could be folk there who might have found it offensive. I expect better from pro rugby players so a hard line needs to be drawn, rather than saying it's PC.

You're right in insinuating that Mourad is a knob though.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by Rugby Fan on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:57 am

mikey_dragon wrote:The first instance of this I seen was in Super Rugby where Pocock was called a fa***t. The Saffa later apologized and it was left at that.  
It wasn't left at an apology. Jacques Potgieter was fined AUS $20,000, and ordered to take an awareness course. The ARU came up with that after consulting with the players union, and Waratahs.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by whocares on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 4:46 am

BigGee wrote:
His boss has just weighed in with his usual politically incorrect take on events, suggesting it is all an Anglo-Saxon and Welsh conspiracy! He is another one who should probably learn to keep a lid on it.

Clearly common sense rules don't apply to Billionaires.

The best part was when he said he was worried by the Mormon side of the EPCR with the Welsh and the Irish. Saying that these are people who pretend to have a high moral compass when they have none...That was just after saying that calling someone a “f. Fa...t” is not a big deal !

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 7:57 am

mikey_dragon wrote:
BigGee wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:It depends. Is the player who got called the profanity homo-sexual? Were there any players, officials or fans of that orientation around at the time? We might not know, however I do think it's unacceptable at this level. The first instance of this I seen was in Super Rugby where Pocock was called a fa***t. The Saffa later apologized and it was left at that.  

Would you like all players and officials to fill in details of their sexual and gender orientations prior to any games, so we can be clear on who may or may not be offended?

His boss has just weighed in with his usual politically incorrect take on events, suggesting it is all an Anglo-Saxon and Welsh conspiracy! He is another one who should probably learn to keep a lid on it.

Clearly common sense rules don't apply to Billionaires.

They disclose that information on their job applications - have you never filled one out? My point was is that whilst I don't really find it offensive there could be folk there who might have found it offensive. I expect better from pro rugby players so a hard line needs to be drawn, rather than saying it's PC.

You're right in insinuating that Mourad is a knob though.

Which are confidential and used for equal opportunities monitoring only by the HR department - your direct managers and colleagues should never get sight of that form.

Also I don't think it matter if anyone on the pitch was gay - there will have been lots of gay people watching on TV and reading about it in the papers today, and rugby players should know that they cannot say these kind of things on the pitch anymore. They may get away with it at the bottom of a ruck or in a maul but not in open play certainly!

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 9:54 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Also I don't think it matter if anyone on the pitch was gay - there will have been lots of gay people watching on TV and reading about it in the papers today, and rugby players should know that they cannot say these kind of things on the pitch anymore. They may get away with it at the bottom of a ruck or in a maul but not in open play certainly!

So double standards apply and should apply? One law for the dirty, gritty reality of Rugby warfare and blood-up 'heat of the moment' moments when the Twitter generation can't read your lips...and that other rule for the snowflake generation who take courses in lip reading in order to be offended by a comment half a mile away from them?

I laugh sometimes. It's like the idea that Donald Trump should not be welcome in the UK when the UK's Head of State's husband has as ripe a history himself of dubious comments thrown out casually to people of all colours and sexes. But that's just the auld Duke being a rascal, ain't it. No harm in the Duke's old world views Cool

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 9:57 am

SecretFly wrote:
RDW_Scotland wrote:

Also I don't think it matter if anyone on the pitch was gay - there will have been lots of gay people watching on TV and reading about it in the papers today, and rugby players should know that they cannot say these kind of things on the pitch anymore. They may get away with it at the bottom of a ruck or in a maul but not in open play certainly!  

So double standards apply and should apply?  One law for the dirty, gritty reality of Rugby warfare and blood-up 'heat of the moment' moments when the Twitter generation can't read your lips...and that other rule for the snowflake generation who take courses in lip reading in order to be offended by a comment half a mile away from them?

I laugh sometimes.  It's like the idea that Donald Trump should not be welcome in the UK when the UK's Head of State's husband has as ripe a history himself of dubious comments thrown out casually to people of all colours and sexes.  But that's just the auld Duke being a rascal, ain't it.  No harm in the Duke's old world views Cool

To clarifying I'm not proposing they keep those comments to the bottom of a ruck and class that as acceptable, I was meaning that chances are these things still happen a lot but no one knows about it because it isn't caught on microphone or camera.

I'm certainly not part of the snowflake generation but there's no way he can avoid punishment for what he said in the current day and age - World Rugby will know that they will be sending a really bad message if they do let him off.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:04 am

Wasn't getting at you RDW...was responding to the inference of that argument you posited. It's a real argument and I understand it's there. Most sensible and real people know that a lot of cruel and cutting language gets used in rugby when emotions are high. Hateful language is hateful language, to be used when the mind is hot and bothered and trying to get safety valves of release. People call each other 'Basterde' all the time...it doesn't mean we all think ever guy we're annoyed at is born out of wedlock. It's sharp and aggressive language that humans use when tanked up with adrenaline.

So we all know that goes on and it's just part of life. But dare the player let it be heard on the TV...because then it obviously becomes a Politically Charged Event and the generation of the eternally offended will of course demand the pound of flesh..... and organisations are then pressurised to give it.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:05 am

Fair enough fly. Does anyone know what was said to Basteraud for him to react like that?

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:09 am

There's aggressive language then there's racist homophobic abuse etc. Tempers will flare players will have a little chip.to try and rile others. As with all this there are lines you can't cross.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by cascough on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:17 am

It's a bit callous to think that this sort of thing is just people being overly PC. Sexuality is not a choice. Even in 2018 people can be bullied in the workplace, persecuted by society or ostracized by their families for their sexuality. For some it get so bad that it affects their mental health to the degree that suicide becomes the only option. Please let's get some perspective here.

Rugby fans love to big themselves up and sneer at football fans in particular. How much more mature an audience we are. Look at the behavior of football fans, you wouldn't get that with rugby etc. Playing down homophobic abuse isn't exactly befitting of a set of fans that pride themselves on being warm and welcoming. It's 2018 for god's sake.

And as for Basteraud's apology, it wasn't great. He made sure to caveat it with an excuse. If he's unable to offer an unconditional apology then I'd question how much he means it.

*edit-and if he was provoked, follow that up separately. Calling someone a faggot shouldn't be something that's acceptable in particular circumstances, therefore he should be able to offer an unconditional apology for using that language, even if he still has strong feelings of dislike for the opposing player.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by RDW_Scotland on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:21 am

cascough wrote:It's a bit callous to think that this sort of thing is just people being overly PC. Sexuality is not a choice. Even in 2018 people can be bullied in the workplace, persecuted by society or ostracized by their families for their sexuality. For some it get so bad that it affects their mental health to the degree that suicide becomes the only option. Please let's get some perspective here.

Rugby fans love to big themselves up and sneer at football fans in particular. How much more mature an audience we are. Look at the behavior of football fans, you wouldn't get that with rugby etc. Playing down homophobic abuse isn't exactly befitting of a set of fans that pride themselves on being warm and welcoming. It's 2018 for god's sake.

And as for Basteraud's apology, it wasn't great. He made sure to caveat it with an excuse. If he's unable to offer an unconditional apology then I'd question how much he means it.

*edit-and if he was provoked, follow that up separately. Calling someone a faggot shouldn't be something that's acceptable in particular circumstances, therefore he should be able to offer an unconditional apology for using that language, even if he still has strong feelings of dislike for the opposing player.

This. clap

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by BigGee on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:29 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:There's aggressive language then there's racist homophobic abuse etc. Tempers will flare players will have a little chip.to try and rile others. As with all this there are lines you can't cross.

That is a good summary, there are lines you can't cross, even I would say, in the bottom of a ruck. You can pass it off as a heat of the moment thing, but if you say it, then who is to say you don't mean it.

A captain of a team at a club I played for walked his team off the pitch during a game when a player in the team was racially abused. This was 30 years ago, when causal racism (and sometimes, as in this case, not so causal) was pretty much acceptable.

His actions caused a great deal of stink, fixtures between the clubs were suspended etc but not everyone supported him, even in his own club. He was a school teacher in East London in a very multi-cultural school, had principles and was not going to let it go, even at some cost to himself, I think he left the club shortly afterwards. I had a lot of respect for him at the time and still do. What he did was very enlightened and very brave.

You would like to believe that society in general and rugby in particular has come a long way since then.

The death of Cyril Regis was announced this morning, one of the first professional black footballers. Some of the stuff those guys had to put up with in their careers and they usually did so with great dignity and you have got to remember stuff like that in the context of this incident.

Thankfully rugby these days and sport in general has much fewer incidences with discrimination. I would prefer to keep it that way.

Basteraud is not going to get hung for this, but he will get a ban and maybe a fine and more importantly needs to learn his lesson.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by tigertattie on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:40 am

"may get away with it" doesn't mean it's allowed/accepted, it just means there is a higher chance of not being caught!

I think Basteraud has just said goodbye to his 6Ns. His club may not take this seriously but World Rugby are bound to hand him a stern punishment (and rightly so). You simply can't say things like that in this day and age and expect to get away with it (unless you have a bad fake tan, terrible hair cut and can quote 'fake news' to get out of things)
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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:53 am

SecretFly wrote:Wasn't getting at you RDW...was responding to the inference of that argument you posited.   It's a real argument and I understand it's there.  Most sensible and real people know that a lot of cruel and cutting language gets used in rugby when emotions are high.  Hateful language is hateful language, to be used when the mind is hot and bothered and trying to get safety valves of release.  People call each other 'Basterde' all the time...it doesn't mean we all think ever guy we're annoyed at is born out of wedlock.  It's sharp and aggressive language that humans use when tanked up with adrenaline.

So we all know that goes on and it's just part of life.  But dare the player let it be heard on the TV...because then it obviously becomes a Politically Charged Event and the generation of the eternally offended will of course demand the pound of flesh..... and organisations are then pressurised to give it.

You pretty much summed up my feelings on this one.

I'm sure that today at work i will have thrown out a handful of far worse insults at people, and will have been on the recieving end of them too. And i would be very suprised if anyone on here can honestly say that the same is not true for them.

However, we are not people in the public eye (I hope), and we do not have cameras recording our actions. Pro players do have cameras/mics to pick things up, and are also role models, and as such they need to be cleaner-than-clean, and as such I think we will see a 'this is a statment we dont want people to think we are <insert whatever term>ist' ban for it.
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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by cascough on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 10:59 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Wasn't getting at you RDW...was responding to the inference of that argument you posited.   It's a real argument and I understand it's there.  Most sensible and real people know that a lot of cruel and cutting language gets used in rugby when emotions are high.  Hateful language is hateful language, to be used when the mind is hot and bothered and trying to get safety valves of release.  People call each other 'Basterde' all the time...it doesn't mean we all think ever guy we're annoyed at is born out of wedlock.  It's sharp and aggressive language that humans use when tanked up with adrenaline.

So we all know that goes on and it's just part of life.  But dare the player let it be heard on the TV...because then it obviously becomes a Politically Charged Event and the generation of the eternally offended will of course demand the pound of flesh..... and organisations are then pressurised to give it.

You pretty much summed up my feelings on this one.

I'm sure that today at work i will have thrown out a handful of far worse insults at people, and will have been on the recieving end of them too.  And i would be very suprised if anyone on here can honestly say that the same is not true for them.

However, we are not people in the public eye (I hope), and we do not have cameras recording our actions.  Pro players do have cameras/mics to pick things up, and are also role models, and as such they need to be cleaner-than-clean, and as such I think we will see a 'this is a statment we dont want people to think we are <insert whatever term>ist' ban for it.

You done worse than insult someone for something they have no control over, but that even though they didn't choose it, still results in putting strain on their relationships with family, friends, colleagues and their acceptance into everyday life, the likes of which most people can take for granted, and is a contributing factor to the number of people that take their own lives every year? Firstly, why? And secondly, what is it that you are saying that is worse than that?

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by cascough on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:01 am

I suspect that what you are saying isn't worse than that at all. But you think it is out of your own insensitivity or ignorance. All abuse is not equal. And as I said, Rugby fans bleat on about what a friendly, welcoming crowd they are, let's try live up to that shall we.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by Scottrf on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:04 am

cascough wrote:You done worse than insult someone for something they have no control over, but that even though they didn't choose it, still results in putting strain on their relationships with family, friends, colleagues and their acceptance into everyday life, the likes of which most people can take for granted, and is a contributing factor to the number of people that take their own lives every year? Firstly, why? And secondly, what is it that you are saying that is worse than that?

Oh come down from your high horse. Were you home schooled? It's a pretty common insult.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:09 am

And completely unacceptable. I'd be sacked for that.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by cascough on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:12 am

Just to add one more thing. This has absolutely nothing to do with being in the public eye. Bastareaud is not being held to any higher standards than you or me in the workplace. Arguably less so in fact. In the UK, sexual orientation is a protected characteristic and so anyone using Bastareauds language in the workplace could ultimately lose their Job. As far as I know, this is not something Bastareaud is threatened with. It's no more acceptable at work than it is in front of a camera. There's literally a law against it.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by cascough on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:15 am

Scottrf wrote:
cascough wrote:You done worse than insult someone for something they have no control over, but that even though they didn't choose it, still results in putting strain on their relationships with family, friends, colleagues and their acceptance into everyday life, the likes of which most people can take for granted, and is a contributing factor to the number of people that take their own lives every year? Firstly, why? And secondly, what is it that you are saying that is worse than that?

Oh come down from your high horse. Were you home schooled? It's a pretty common insult.

I'm aware of how common it is. I've used it in the past. Neither of those things make it acceptable.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by Scottrf on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:17 am

cascough wrote:
Scottrf wrote:
cascough wrote:You done worse than insult someone for something they have no control over, but that even though they didn't choose it, still results in putting strain on their relationships with family, friends, colleagues and their acceptance into everyday life, the likes of which most people can take for granted, and is a contributing factor to the number of people that take their own lives every year? Firstly, why? And secondly, what is it that you are saying that is worse than that?

Oh come down from your high horse. Were you home schooled? It's a pretty common insult.

I'm aware of how common it is. I've used it in the past. Neither of those things make it acceptable.

That's fine then, you were acting like it's the worst thing a person can do.

Agreed he'd potentially be sacked elsewhere.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by BigGee on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:20 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:And completely unacceptable.  I'd be sacked for that.

Indeed, I work in the NHS and I think it is pretty likely that I would be as well, should I chose to speak like that to anyone whilst at work and believe me, I get quite a lot of abuse thrown my way whilst at work. Retaliation however, is never an option.

Basteraud is not going to get sacked, especially with his boss apparently not being to bothered about it.

This is the point when pampered professional sports people need to get some sense of reality about what goes on in the real world.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by beshocked on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:35 am

Have any of you seriously not said something in the heat of the moment that you regret?

At least Basteraud had apologised. I'd say give Basteraud the same punishment as Marler.


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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:39 am

Can't say I've been racist or homophobic at work no. Yourself?

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:48 am

cascough wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Wasn't getting at you RDW...was responding to the inference of that argument you posited.   It's a real argument and I understand it's there.  Most sensible and real people know that a lot of cruel and cutting language gets used in rugby when emotions are high.  Hateful language is hateful language, to be used when the mind is hot and bothered and trying to get safety valves of release.  People call each other 'Basterde' all the time...it doesn't mean we all think ever guy we're annoyed at is born out of wedlock.  It's sharp and aggressive language that humans use when tanked up with adrenaline.

So we all know that goes on and it's just part of life.  But dare the player let it be heard on the TV...because then it obviously becomes a Politically Charged Event and the generation of the eternally offended will of course demand the pound of flesh..... and organisations are then pressurised to give it.

You pretty much summed up my feelings on this one.

I'm sure that today at work i will have thrown out a handful of far worse insults at people, and will have been on the recieving end of them too.  And i would be very suprised if anyone on here can honestly say that the same is not true for them.

However, we are not people in the public eye (I hope), and we do not have cameras recording our actions.  Pro players do have cameras/mics to pick things up, and are also role models, and as such they need to be cleaner-than-clean, and as such I think we will see a 'this is a statment we dont want people to think we are <insert whatever term>ist' ban for it.

You done worse than insult someone for something they have no control over, but that even though they didn't choose it, still results in putting strain on their relationships with family, friends, colleagues and their acceptance into everyday life, the likes of which most people can take for granted, and is a contributing factor to the number of people that take their own lives every year? Firstly, why? And secondly, what is it that you are saying that is worse than that?

Think you've taken the wrong end of the stick there mate, reading you second message I'd say you definitely have).

Was the player that the insult was targeted at a homosexual? Or was it a case of someone using an insult that is in pretty common use on TV, film etc? If it was MF'er that was used, that would have been a bad thing to say, yet we would not be getting as upset, because we know that there are no real claims of incest there, just an insult.

As a side note. Reading other peoples comments, maybe the language/insults it my workplace are more frequent than elsewhere, as we don't see any of the genreal public. But I can say hand on heart I have heard the C thrown out there a good three or four times this morning, a few MF'ers, and a handful of Rooster-Sucker. Nobody means any of them in their literal sense, but they do mean that they are agrivated/irrated and venting. Doesn't make it acceptable for someone in the public eye to use those phrases though.
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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:52 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Can't say I've been racist or homophobic at work no. Yourself?

Never said/done anything that was intentionally either of them, and I would like to think that nobody on these boards would have. However, im sure there are plenty of examples of things that most of us have done that could be construed as being that way. (I mean you just need to look at the way some posts go during the international window to see how things that are meant inocent can end up offending people).
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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 11:59 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Can't say I've been racist or homophobic at work no. Yourself?

Does your work involve hitting your workmates and throwing workmates to the ground at high speed, and pushing and shoving and shouldering them out of your way in the corridor, or making shyte of them in the toilets?

An office ISN'T a playing field of one of the most violently combative sports on the planet.  So the comparisons people make are invalid.  Most people behave themselves in polite circumstances (the vast majority of secretly homophobic people too BTW!)  You meet homophobic people all the time as you travel through the world and time - all the time.  You won't know it, but their heart and instincts will.
Most people know how to mould their true opinions though into a mix that will get them through a decent day, talking to or communicating with people that wouldn't share their personal views.  
But humans are humans too.  They still kill people without a whim in certain circumstances.  And that will go on and on for as long as we survive extinction...we'll both kill each other in battles and wars...and we'll lose our cool and let our Stately moralistic pretensions go with it in a sea of blunt invective.  We will be what we are...and no rules and regulations will stop us being who we are..... nor should they really.  To me there is sanctity in Freedom of Speech.  That protects vicious basterdes, yes.  But it also protects my rights to call them vicious basterdes...or worse.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:00 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Can't say I've been racist or homophobic at work no. Yourself?

Never said/done anything that was intentionally either of them, and I would like to think that nobody on these boards would have.  However, im sure there are plenty of examples of things that most of us have done that could be construed as being that way.  (I mean you just need to look at the way some posts go during the international window to see how things that are meant inocent can end up offending people).

OK

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by BigGee on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:02 pm

In any workplace there is a bit of banter and some colourful language goes along with it but you need to know the limits.

By the sound of things SS yours is an a male working environment. A lot of that kind of venting would not be acceptable in a mixed sex environment either, even without any racial or homophobic slurs.

I am not prudish about swearing and even as health care professionals, most of us curse and swear a bit, though it has to be confined to our office and amongst our team.

I would get severely reprimanded for using the kind of language you are suggesting in any public area as well and I am always very much aware, even with my closest colleagues, who cover a mixture of sexes, genders and races, that people can find what you say is offensive, even if it is not to you.

You can push outside of those boundaries at your own risk.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by Scottrf on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:08 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Can't say I've been racist or homophobic at work no. Yourself?

I'm not sure he's really been homophobic. It's basically just a swear modifier, the same way people use the word like his surname without meaning it literally, or the W word.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by BigGee on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:11 pm

Whether he was or he was not being genuinely homophobic, he has unfortunately, by his actions, put himself in a position where he is now going to be judged on it.

He just should not have said it!

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:12 pm

BigGee, between you and Fly you’ve hit it on the head. The Rugby pitch is, in this instance, an all male environment. And also it is very testosterone fused. This comment was most likely not meant in a homophobic way, but more of an alpha male way (You’re man enough to have caused a fracas but not man enough to stay there).

Yeah I work in a male dominated, physical labour, type place. The language is toned down when females (or even youngsters) are present, and on the occasions it isn’t, there is usually a swift apology or someone reminds the perpertrater to wind their neck in. But to someone used to a clean office environment it would appear exceptionally unacceptable
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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by cascough on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:14 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
cascough wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Wasn't getting at you RDW...was responding to the inference of that argument you posited.   It's a real argument and I understand it's there.  Most sensible and real people know that a lot of cruel and cutting language gets used in rugby when emotions are high.  Hateful language is hateful language, to be used when the mind is hot and bothered and trying to get safety valves of release.  People call each other 'Basterde' all the time...it doesn't mean we all think ever guy we're annoyed at is born out of wedlock.  It's sharp and aggressive language that humans use when tanked up with adrenaline.

So we all know that goes on and it's just part of life.  But dare the player let it be heard on the TV...because then it obviously becomes a Politically Charged Event and the generation of the eternally offended will of course demand the pound of flesh..... and organisations are then pressurised to give it.

You pretty much summed up my feelings on this one.

I'm sure that today at work i will have thrown out a handful of far worse insults at people, and will have been on the recieving end of them too.  And i would be very suprised if anyone on here can honestly say that the same is not true for them.

However, we are not people in the public eye (I hope), and we do not have cameras recording our actions.  Pro players do have cameras/mics to pick things up, and are also role models, and as such they need to be cleaner-than-clean, and as such I think we will see a 'this is a statment we dont want people to think we are <insert whatever term>ist' ban for it.

You done worse than insult someone for something they have no control over, but that even though they didn't choose it, still results in putting strain on their relationships with family, friends, colleagues and their acceptance into everyday life, the likes of which most people can take for granted, and is a contributing factor to the number of people that take their own lives every year? Firstly, why? And secondly, what is it that you are saying that is worse than that?

Think you've taken the wrong end of the stick there mate, reading you second message I'd say you definitely have).

Was the player that the insult was targeted at a homosexual?  Or was it a case of someone using an insult that is in pretty common use on TV, film etc?  If it was MF'er that was used, that would have been a bad thing to say, yet we would not be getting as upset, because we know that there are no real claims of incest there, just an insult.  

As a side note.  Reading other peoples comments, maybe the language/insults it my workplace are more frequent than elsewhere, as we don't see any of the genreal public.  But I can say hand on heart I have heard the C thrown out there a good three or four times this morning, a few MF'ers, and a handful of Rooster-Sucker.  Nobody means any of them in their literal sense, but they do mean that they are agrivated/irrated and venting.  Doesn't make it acceptable for someone in the public eye to use those phrases though.

None of those things infringe on anyones protected charactersitics, therefore there is a legal difference. All abuse is not the same and it doesn't matter how common the insult is, or whether or not the person the insult was directed at is homosexual. Just from a logical point of view, that's absurd. It suggests it's okay to call straight Rugby players a fu**ing faggot but we have to use a different insult for gay ones.

In 2018, sadly, homophobia (which is a real problem, with real consequences) is still prevalent in sport. Even just looking at this one thread we have people seeking to normalise and rationlise it, which is disappointing. As I've said earlier I think it's especially disappointing that a fanbase that sneers at other sports whilst trumpeting their own virtues can't take it more seriously.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by SecretFly on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:22 pm

cascough wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
cascough wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:
SecretFly wrote:Wasn't getting at you RDW...was responding to the inference of that argument you posited.   It's a real argument and I understand it's there.  Most sensible and real people know that a lot of cruel and cutting language gets used in rugby when emotions are high.  Hateful language is hateful language, to be used when the mind is hot and bothered and trying to get safety valves of release.  People call each other 'Basterde' all the time...it doesn't mean we all think ever guy we're annoyed at is born out of wedlock.  It's sharp and aggressive language that humans use when tanked up with adrenaline.

So we all know that goes on and it's just part of life.  But dare the player let it be heard on the TV...because then it obviously becomes a Politically Charged Event and the generation of the eternally offended will of course demand the pound of flesh..... and organisations are then pressurised to give it.

You pretty much summed up my feelings on this one.

I'm sure that today at work i will have thrown out a handful of far worse insults at people, and will have been on the recieving end of them too.  And i would be very suprised if anyone on here can honestly say that the same is not true for them.

However, we are not people in the public eye (I hope), and we do not have cameras recording our actions.  Pro players do have cameras/mics to pick things up, and are also role models, and as such they need to be cleaner-than-clean, and as such I think we will see a 'this is a statment we dont want people to think we are <insert whatever term>ist' ban for it.

You done worse than insult someone for something they have no control over, but that even though they didn't choose it, still results in putting strain on their relationships with family, friends, colleagues and their acceptance into everyday life, the likes of which most people can take for granted, and is a contributing factor to the number of people that take their own lives every year? Firstly, why? And secondly, what is it that you are saying that is worse than that?

Think you've taken the wrong end of the stick there mate, reading you second message I'd say you definitely have).

Was the player that the insult was targeted at a homosexual?  Or was it a case of someone using an insult that is in pretty common use on TV, film etc?  If it was MF'er that was used, that would have been a bad thing to say, yet we would not be getting as upset, because we know that there are no real claims of incest there, just an insult.  

As a side note.  Reading other peoples comments, maybe the language/insults it my workplace are more frequent than elsewhere, as we don't see any of the genreal public.  But I can say hand on heart I have heard the C thrown out there a good three or four times this morning, a few MF'ers, and a handful of Rooster-Sucker.  Nobody means any of them in their literal sense, but they do mean that they are agrivated/irrated and venting.  Doesn't make it acceptable for someone in the public eye to use those phrases though.

None of those things infringe on anyones protected charactersitics, therefore there is a legal difference. All abuse is not the same and it doesn't matter how common the insult is, or whether or not the person the insult was directed at is homosexual. Just from a logical point of view, that's absurd. It suggests it's okay to call straight Rugby players a fu**ing faggot but we have to use a different insult for gay ones.

In 2018, sadly, homophobia (which is a real problem, with real consequences) is still prevalent in sport. Even just looking at this one thread we have people seeking to normalise and rationlise it, which is disappointing. As I've said earlier I think it's especially disappointing that a fanbase that sneers at other sports whilst trumpeting their own virtues can't take it more seriously.

Hold on a second. We all have a right here ...and a duty of sorts if we're to call this a forum...to articulate views and so form a discussion. That's what this is - a discussion. Various views of a incident posted and discussed. You're disappointed others on this thread don't share your views on the details of the incident or the reactions to the incident. Well, there you go - that's diversity of opinion showing itself.... legitimately.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by cascough on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:25 pm

I'm not denying anyone's right to express themselves. I'm merely pointing out the general hypocrisy that doing so is causing. I'm pointing out where people are factually incorrect, i.e. All abuse is not the same. Protected characteristics are set in law. And finally I'm expressing my disappointment at some of the views aired. None of that is stopping anyone else say what they want.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by No 7&1/2 on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:26 pm

I'd disagree that because you're in a physical confrontation etc offers you any lee way or explantains for terns like this being bandied about. Yes the term is homophobic. Similar to if the recipient had turned.around and used the n word.

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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by ScarletSpiderman on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:34 pm

cascough wrote:None of those things infringe on anyones protected charactersitics, therefore there is a legal difference. All abuse is not the same and it doesn't matter how common the insult is, or whether or not the person the insult was directed at is homosexual. Just from a logical point of view, that's absurd. It suggests it's okay to call straight Rugby players a fu**ing faggot but we have to use a different insult for gay ones.

In 2018, sadly, homophobia (which is a real problem, with real consequences) is still prevalent in sport. Even just looking at this one thread we have people seeking to normalise and rationlise it, which is disappointing. As I've said earlier I think it's especially disappointing that a fanbase that sneers at other sports whilst trumpeting their own virtues can't take it more seriously.

Really? Saying that a man sucks on another mans falace does not 'infringe on anyones protected charactersitics'? That suprises me, as id say that was if anything a far worse way of putting it as not only does it imply homosexuality, but it does so in what could be classed as a graphic way. I apologise, if you think I am trying to normalise/rationalise any discrimination.

The interesting thing is, it seems we are all in agreement that this will end up in a ban.
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Re: Basteraud in trouble?

Post by GeordieFalcon on Mon 15 Jan 2018, 12:54 pm

How did the player who he said it to react? I bet he didn't even bat an eyelid...

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